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The club needs to continually 'evolve' and look at ways of improving at all levels. That goes without saying. But our greatest need is for the team - the actual footballers - to WIN. New sponsors - check. Move to new training facility including Gosch's paddock - check. Debt demolition - check. 30,000+ members in a period of pathetic football - check Press into Casey and Darwin - check. Search for new CEO with outstanding interim CEO - check. Men and women of Demonland, we simply need to start winning, and stop listening to all the spin from journos about being "irrrelevant, embarrassing, etc..." Winning, and winning alone, will grab this club by the scruff of the neck.

I'll play devil's advocate - he had 11 disposals and 1 tackle. He shanked his two shots for goal (though granted, one was after a heavy hit from behind). He simply needs to get more of the ball and become more involved in the game. I love his courage but that won't be enough to build a career upon. Despite the last quarter avalanche, we finished with fewer possessions. It's not everything but we have a long way to go in terms of winning and keeping the ball.

This is not the way the law normally operates RR. The longer it takes the more innocent people get their reputations shredded. Your last line is just a put down and nothing to do with any thing in the discussion besides you shouting down someone who does not agree with you. I could make a number of smart comments about you but I choose not to use that technique.

Every season, 22 players play 22 games (for simplicity's sake, anyway). So that's 484 games experience added 'naturally' each year. Remarkably, way back since 2007, the Demons have continuously reduced the total games experience on the list, almost every year. I've thrown together what I've been able to quickly find, with games played where possible. I set aside less-than-50 gamers for simplicity's sake. From my figuring, the only time we increased our total experience on field in the last six years was going from start of 2011 to start of 2012 2007: Brown, Ward, Bizzell, Godfrey, Ferguson 2008: Neitz (306), Yze (271), White (268), Holland (191) 2009: Robertson (228), Whelan (150), Wheatley(135) and picked up Joel MacDonald (80) 2010: Bell (66) McDonald (251) Miller (133) Johnson (67) Bruce (224) 2011: Warnock (55) note: other delistings were under 50 games. Added Mitch Clark (85) 2012: Out: Moloney (145), Rivers (150), Martin (52), Bennell (57), Petterd (54), Bate (102), Green (254), Morton (72), Bartram (102) In: Dawes (71), Byrnes (110), Rodan (175) Wow, it was a little bit of a shock to see that Morton had more games experience than Dawes. And a quick bit of maths will tell anyone that our trades/free agency tangles at the end of 2012 actually reduced our total experience, far from 'stacking the list with older players'. In fact... In: 356 games out: 988 games Net: -632 games So Melbourne's list is actually a LOT less experienced starting 2012 than it was starting 2011. By a whole 'season' worth of games and then some. Next remarkable thought - Dunn, Macdonald and Davey are 3 of our 9 players with more than 100 games of experience, and all look shaky to play on in 2014. So unless there is another successful recruiting effort (we all crave a class midfielder, of course) then the club will barely be more experienced in 2014 as it is this year. So there y' go. Melbourne is less experienced in 2013 than in 2012. Let's be clear I'm not in 'excuse-making mode' here. I'm just plinking a misconception about the Demon's list.

- They were undeniably impressive in Round 1 against the Lions which kept the doubters at bay for a couple of weeks. Of course that performance has been cast in a different light having watched the Lions this year, but still, there was evidence of a nucleus of young gun mids to build future success upon. - They haven't been belted by 148 points. - Their injury list, whilst not horrific, isn't great - Wood, Murphy, Higgins, Dickson, Williams and now Griffen. - Macrea and Stringer have only played 1 game have they not? Were they expected to set the world on fire in their debut? Bottom line is right now if we were to play them, they'd still be favourites. I also think it takes alot of gall as a Melbourne supporter to say no-one cares about the Dogs. Like we're top of the tree? The only reason people enjoy reading about us is because we've been an unmitigated train wreck, on and off the field. It's a fascination. A case of "what have they done this time?". Nothing more.

Success when it comes will come quickly. The point about his switch from defence to offence is misunderstood by some. It's not an all or nothing thing but our blokes have had to learn, and are still learning how to defend all over the ground. We haven't got it yet and our skills don't allow us to do it either. But it comes in stages. Our offensive game has been neglected precisely because it's building blocks. Defence is the foundation and we have started on that, but every time we play there has to be a mix of styles. It's a matter of shifting emphasis from game to game. Neeld is introducing modern concepts to our club. We have to give him time. End of story.

As a player, it would [censored] me off no end to be told week-in, week-out, that due to the sides lack of game experience we won't be very good for some time yet. I would want to be told that we're good enough to win right now. I would like Neeld to change his message to the players and the general public about this belief of his. It's growing tiresome.

If we do that, I'll launch my own investigation. Seeing it's the year of investigations...

Forgive me if this has been noted in last couple of pages. RobbieF (i think) made an excellent point a few days back and one that i'm surprised has not been explored by the media. Namely that the MFC have themselves said that the day of the Essendon presser they ensured all ties to Dank were severed. A bit tricky to do, i would have thought, if they had no knowledge of any dealings the club doctor (or anyone else) had with him. I mean you can't cut ties with someone you have no idea you have ties with.

Max Gawn

they handled the jurrah affiar with poise.they are learning to close shop on injuries and timelines and not make silly statements . less club people are talking to the press, as it should only be the coach and prez doing this.they have said we will stick with the 3 preseason option of misson and rest of fd.and they have shut up press hoopla on hogan which never happened with jw.notice there is no outrageous comments about the coach coming from committee. the club is very slowly learning from mistakes. DONT PANIC

Thought it was worth mentioning tapscott effort on the weekend backing back with players bearing down, got crunched, got up and shanked his kick. But very nice to see this commitment a super courageous player loved seeing we need more of that.

Any half sensible CEO prospect would be doing this. I would have thought the chalice is pretty toxic at the moment. I hope Jacksons review is deep and comprehensive and it does come out. Because the AFL will have to support MFC on a number of fronts and this might have to done openly to attract a quality candidate. Given what's been its hardly an enticing role atm

That's my point though. If you're going to conduct an in-depth internal review in such an important and significant issue, transparency is required. So the Doc should have been a starting point and questions should have been asked about any dealings with Dank. And all matters reviewed and revealed to the AFL. Glossing over such important proceedings is mismanagement as far as I'm concerned. And you're not sure what they could have done? How about being competent and thorough in reviews and governance for a start. Responsibility is essential.

Doggies have the fact that they are in rebuild mode for the first time not the 100th time like us on their side. Tigers received the the heat over the last decade because of their constant rebuilds and so have we.

Let me ask this question: Is Demetriou more angry with us for answering a specific question he asked, which has proven to be the correct answer, but at the same time omitting to volunteer further information to a question not specifically asked, than he is with Essendon for injecting players in the stomach with unknown substances and having secret contracts that the AFL was not aware of? I would love any media person in this country to have the guts to ask that simple question. It won't happen with the football media we have, they want to keep their footy pass.

At one point in the 4th quarter he just kept attacking - was the only one, surrounded by GWS players but he just kept throwing himself at them. Would have made 4 tackles in as many seconds - that was one of the highlights of the game for me. We need more players to do the second, third and even fourth efforts. Anyone else see that - for some reason the commentators missed it?

Not just the toughness but the aggression also (from Nev too) was awesome to see. It's been far too long since we've had a player who really loves to get in everyone's grill and when he is the size of Tappy it's even better.

So happy to see a win, I don't care who its against, a win is a win, particularly when on the first 3 weeks form I was starting to believe we wouldn't win a game all year. On GWS, I know people like to feel better about the expansion teams by considering them irrelevent easy beats who good teams consider a Bye.But the fact is this won't be the case for long. It may be sooner or later but GWS will start winning games against weaker clubs as they have been the beneficiary of one of the most unprecendented club builds of all time. Their finances are unprecedented, their salary cap advantage is unprecedented (kills Brisbanes and look what they did) their draft concessions are unprecedented, their ability to raid other clubs is unprecedented, the mini-draft is unprecendented, their board and admin is run by the AFL, the AFL has a vested interest in seeing them win and the CEO of the AFL is out there petitioning one of the best players in the comp to go there. I know that it makes the installation of these clubs more palatable to believe they will be pathetic for ages and that 27 games is nothing it will take decades, but the reality is no one really knows what the impact of these concessions will be, certainly we all know what the intent is, the AFL wants them to win a premiership, and soon. So I am seriously relieved they are yet to beat us, especially when our club is in such a moment crisis with such poor form. GWS and GC will start going past established teams very soon, they HAVE to, the AFL wills it! So lets just be glad that for now we are still beating them, if we can stay ahead of them the way things stand now it would be bloody amazing! Also, Mitch Clark had a good game in terms of his impact in helping out other teammates, but if he had been on, and if Jordan Bannister wasn't as bad an umpire as he was a footballer he could have had 4 goals yesterday! The two set shots he missed he normally would be nailing, the kick off the ground in the goalsquare was bad luck, and the mark in the goalsquare that was taken off him was a joke! Add to that the constantly mauling and pushing in the back in marking contests and he should have had a day out. I hope his foot recovers very quickly. Go Dees!

After every game this week we've heard Neeld and Craig go on about games played average amongst the group and how young our team are. All the while I was thinking yeah, yeah we're not that young, a lot of these players have been around long enough now. But after going through our player list before I received a rude shock. We only have 16 players out of 45 that have played 50 games or more, 7 between 50-100, 7 between 100-150, 2 between 150-200 and none that are in the 200 plus category. Our list of experienced players reads. PLAYER AGE GAMES PLAYED David Rodan 29 178 Aaron Davey 29 161 Colin Sylvia 27 142 Nathan Jones 25 139 Mark Jamar 29 128 Joel MacDonald 28 123 Shannon Byrnes 29 112 James Frawley 24 105 Lynden Dunn 25 100 Mitch Clark 25 97 Colin Garland 24 84 Chris Dawes 24 71 Jack Trengove 21 62 Jordie McKenzie 22 58 Jack Watts 22 58 Jack Grimes 23 57 I'm yet to compare that to a Sydney, Geelong, Hawthorn or Collingwood as yet but I'd imagine that the results would be pretty damming. Makes you realise just how far back we a re coming from. especially given there's a good chance neither Rodan or Davey will be here next year. Lets hang tough and give these kids a chance to grow!

What an enormous challenge CEO of the MFC would be, any one that takes it on and succeeds will show themselves to be a great administrator. We've probably uncovered all the [censored] below the surface and the temporary CEO will have 6 or so months to wash out all the garbage. There are plenty of people that love a challenge and we certainly are.

Being a Melbourne supporter i am forever holding the trident of optimism, and just for a bit of fun. if the following teams win then Melbourne will be 10th on the ladder at the end of round 5, just 1 game out of the 8 Sydney defeats Stkilda Giants defeat Goldcoast Crows Defeat Carlton Port defeat Eagles Cats defeats dogs DEES defeat lions hawks defeat North Now of course there are alot of "ifs" here.. but we can always dream

I think you overestimate the likelihood that you know what Neeld is telling the players. So far, I admit that he's not made a great impression with on-field results, but if there's something that could and should be praised, it's his ability to deliver a consistent message. He's clearly thought about what the message for each audience should be, and delivers that message consistently every time he's asked. The press get the same message about experience, and development. The supporters get the same message every time he speaks to us - stick with us, the future is bright. I'm sure the players get the same consistent messages too, but not the messages we get. It's clear he values consistently hard work, and systems to deliver it. It's clear to me from the words that come out of the mouths of the players during interviews, that they've been getting the same messages from Neeld, constantly. Work hard, play for your team mates, worry about internal measures not external chatter. Every single player interview they use the word "internal". They're setting up an emotional fortress, "us against them". I'm involved in high performance team-building professionally, I think they're on the right path to building a strong, winning, work ethic. Call it culture, if you like. I'm rambling, but my point is this - you don't know what Neeld's telling the players. He doesn't say to you, what he says to them. There's probably only 50-60 people in the inner circle of the football department (including players), and if you're not one of them, you don't know what the internal messages are. I'm still not sure whether Neeld is a good matchday coach, but then I'm not sure Mark Thompson (or any coach, for that matter), really has much of an influence on the field. 99% of their influence happens in building the team in the years preceding success. Given the way you could hear the players yelling - constantly - "Neeldy! Neeldy! Come on mate! Neeldy!" prior to the song on the weekend, I'm convinced he's got the backing of the playing group and they're "buying" his message. They were genuinely excited for him and wanted him to be a part of the song (I believe he was, once behind closed doors. His external message is different to the internal one, remember?). Even if we lose 18 games this year, I'd like to see Neeld remain in place for another 3-4 years. Once the fortress is built, the results make themselves. Bomber Thompson was that close to getting fired right before his team began the biggest football dynasty since the Hawks of the 80s.

Dee-luded I have one large problem with the above.You seem to pre suppose that we are constantly attacked by the Media and the AFL without cause. 90% of our problems are self made. The last two disasters Tanking, we tanked and the Doctor affair, we misled the AFL are classic. Neither the AFL or the media made those up. We created the problem i.e. the MFC The other big one is we have a crap list and play poorly. Again neither the AFL or the Media made our draft selections we did. Please stop blaming everyone else for our own created problems. We sailed the Good ship MFC into stormy waters no one else did.

I know next to nothing, but I've followed Melbourne since the 50's. Recently I had lost my nerve, and was convinced that Neeld was not getting the players firing, and he had to go. But an in-the-end great win on Sunday finds me seeing it all differently, suddenly seeing the value in the good off-field stuff Neeld is putting in place, all that unseen stuff, and thinking maybe the players actually do want to play under him, no matter what personality issues anybody may say he has. So that I am backing off, admitting I haven't got a clue. Sit down and shuttup - how could any spectator really know? The confidence we had against Sydney a couple of years ago was wonderful. Fitness etc were non-issues that day. I'm not convinced that any of the truths we tell each other on Demonland are really so clear-cut and certain. Confidence broke out on Sunday - even though it was against a team that had entirely run out of puff - and it was wonderful and showed that we have got a lot going for us (even without Clark, Viney, Dawes, Hogan and just about Watts). Who knows what next? What a ride! I have typed out my opinions, in ignorance, rattled and disappointed, but I don't want to any more. Back to the pre-web-forum days for me, when you took it all in and had nowhere to be shooting your mouth off. (Because shooting your mouth off doesn't make it feel any better anyway...) Back to the engrossing heart-in-your-mouth thing of being a Melbourne supporter! Shout yourself stupid at the game, and then batten down to wait for the next chance - that's supporting, it seems to me. How much more we get out of our wins that the poor sods who are so used to it they are blase! How unpredictable the whole thing is, how intense the stress! Go, boys, go Neeldy, carna Dees!

Is the Trident of Optimism permitted on the Reality Bus?

I don't agree with people saying this is 'Neeld's' team. Yes he has turned over some of the list but really he's only had 2 off seasons and hasn't yet put together the excact team he wants. I think this is more like half his team and he is still working out who best suits his gameplan and who gives 100%. I'm all for seeing through with him as coach coz I think so far he's done a pretty good job with recruiting competitve players and the coaching part will come.

Whilst I agree with a lot of what you say here BH, if we can improve our midfield, I think we'll see a drastic climb up the ladder. Naturally if it were to be this season, we'd have to uncover a few unexpected gems. Matt Jones would have to begin to get clearances like Nathan Jones. Viney would have to join in and Sylvia would have to become consistent. IF the midfield is playing accountable footy and winning its fair share of clearances, we will look like a much better side. Our defence will suddenly look like the great wall again, as confidence will flow through the entire team. It all starts in the midfield though. Your midfield makes your other players look better or worse than they are. EDIT. There was no inappropriate language used in the post. I edited it for its grammar.

Who would this be? And a board challenge to unify will certainly be a challenge... Why do we have to factionalise every bloody Board election? If you want to help lead the club out of its malaise - go and put your hand up. If you have a couple of influential people that will come with you, then great. We do not need, nor is it stipulated anywhere that we have to spurn everyone from the Board to provide new leadership. I happen to like the off-field direction we have moved in, and we have been able to provide the FD with more resources than ever. We do not need a White Knight - there is no such thing in this scenario - we are all Demons and each and every one of us has to ask themselves what they can do to help the club and if one feels that the answer is to become a board member then put your hand up and get elected. Stop looking for Knights to scorch the earth in an effort to unify - it will not.

Dean Terlich stays in. Couple of 2nd and 3 efforts on sunday in the last Q were great. Reward him for it and encourage the same.

Keep your politics off the footy board.

So you admit you have no evidence. You do realise Vlad denied this but you'd rather believe a propagated media opinion piece. You would improve your posts if you made clearer distinctions between opinion and fact.

Tambling will come good.....

I agree. But...the way to ending all of this is by simply winning....& beating good teams not half a$$ed expansions like GWS or GC... Then you would see Don Mclardy as a God...worshipped by all..Winning is the key!!! So the players must be accountable also.. Until then...Don is just another guy in a suit running the club just like all before him WITHOUT MCGUIRE LIKE VOICE..Which Mcguire gives the Pies.. besides maybe Jimma who had a bit of presence with us certainly. I do think theres someone out there whos been thinking about the challenge of MFC president and an empowering one at that....just have a gut feel...

I agree Neeld has been too defensively minded in the past - but I am not going to lay all the blame on Neeld It's widely known the the MFC is 'Unfit' - hard to play consistent footy with an unfit unit. Also if you look at how footy is played now 'no stoppages' you realise the gains under the new fitness regime may not see fruit yet as the game has gotten faster - you can debate that argument all you like but it is accepted in the AFL industry and by our club I strongly believe that if Neeld can keep this team competitve for 2013 he can keep his job and he'll reap some rewards when 2 things happen 1/ Our young blokes who have played 0 -25 games get AFL conditioning and can run out a full game 2/ As a team as a whole we get fitter So to answer your question AF I think Neeld has gone more offensive as well (which is against his coaching style) to keep this team competitive in 2013. And I'd reckon people in the know (AFL media) would applaud this move if they realised it. Al Clarkson and Mick are two coaches who constantly change their game style to suit their teams and are regarded as the best coaches in the league Neelds not out of the woods (getting flogged is not acceptable) but if he can keep his job I reckon we'll see some hard work start to pay off... And I personally don't see this club playing his game style until at least 2014 - 15 when they can actually execute

Watch the replay. Our defensive zone absolutely befuddled the GWS players in at least the first term. That's a Neeld initiative, and it really came in handy. Too bad our players couldn't keep it up in Q2 and Q3.

what part of 'third most goals for the club ever' do you disagree with?

No, but 50% of the time, he's right every time.

The "D-Train" sounds a helluva lot more fun than the "reality bus" the rest of us are on!

Went to the footy yesterday on the D train. 11.13 am train from Pakenham. What a great idea and trip in it was. The Casey Demons, MFC and Metro should all be congratulated on the idea and carrying out of the day. We arrived at the station to see many of the staff, the buglar, face painting and a balloon person. When the train arrived the staff hung the first two carriages with red and blue balloons up popped the ruckle more passengers arrived and we were off. All the seating was taken by the time we got to Dandenong. Red and blue everywhere, free chockies, year books and car stickers. The little kids loved it and the not so little ones too. By the time we got to Richmond there wasn't even any standing room either, and many Dees supporters were in other carriages as well. Great day, great idea cant wait to the next one. I was told they will have more carriages for the Dees on the next one. Well done to all concerned.

How about the pick #33 in 2010... Remember him?

Rule 8.2.4 d Goal Umpire Unsure If a goal Umpire is unsure whether the football crossed the Goal or Behind Line, or is Out of Bounds; the goal Umpire shall seek the assistance of the Field and boundary Umpires. If the correct decision cannot be determined following consultation, the goal Umpire shall give the lesser score. In each of these cases the goal umpire did not ask for assistance, rather the useless maggot butted in and bullied her into allowing the video review. IMVHO this amounts both to breaches of the laws of the game by officious field umpires, AND workplace bullying.

watching these 3 when Melbourne are in full flight, just makes me smile

Important part ofthe team and is staring to find his feet.

Sorry Fifty 5 - cannot agree with you.This was not a nothing win. Particularly given the way in which we won: 19 points down at 3/4 time, then a 12.2 final quarter. I think it was a incredibly important win.

Terlich?

Never mind I got it thanks to some Filth fan complaining about the same thing For the nerds Here is the link that the web site gives you http://www.afl.com.au/video/smart-replay/?ound=CD_R201301404&match=CD_M20130140407&eventType=Goal&seek=6032&videoQuality=high Here is the one that works: http://www.afl.com.au/video/smart-replay/?round=CD_R201301404&matchId=CD_M20130140407 Note the differences? Bloody amateur hour, lets hope the $500K donation we have to give them will buy them some people who can actually write and test software properly

Rather than 'glimpses', the reality is that he has been amongst our better players each game this year yet he still gets bagged (along with Watts) unmercifully on here. It is not just the fact that he was a high draft pick but he attracts unfair scrutiny whilst many under performers who were lower picks escape criticism. IMO anyone who gets drafted at AFL level should get 'objective' criticism.

Colins last quarter today was brilliant. That run he took through the middle of ground and set up Evans goal was incredible. Colin is unstoppable at his best, lets unleash him

Neeld was looking at stats quietly at 3/4 time. i got up and yelled; "Forget the stats Neeld-just get them to have a Crack!" I'm sick of champion data ,sports science ,assistant coaches and hangers on. They cut the confusion for 30 glorious minutes and got the ball moving forward with drive ,aggression and intensity . Simplicity took over. Simply glorious to see that we are not crazy in believing that these guys have the talent .