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I’ll leave the comprehensive reports to BH or others but I’ll share some of my personal observations. I got there before the official starting time and Gawn and Spencer were being put through some ruck/ midfield drills. Viney, Mckenzie and two others completed the set up. It was the first time I’d seen Gawn standing next to Spencer and, given Spencer’s size, Gawn is a real ogre. The drills weren’t competitive as such because Gawn and Spencer were put in predetermined positions to take the tap. Gawn looked fully free in his movements. Interestingly, Viney fumbled a couple of times and got really dirty on himself. They stayed at this for a good 20 minutes then left. I heard Jordie tell another spectator that he had a “bike test” – so I’m guessing they all had. I did not see Jamar until later and he was walking laps with Davey. Grimes was also walking laps later. Trengove was also there early but didn’t do any training. After some running work, the bulk of the players worked in two large groups that consisted of moving through traffic and disposal under pressure. I had noticed earlier how fit Frawley looks and he was very impressive in this drill. Barry also stood out with his very quick and clean hand skills. This was a very fast session with continuous movement and group interchanges. In general it was quite impressive. At the conclusion of that, I saw Mitch Clarke heading off. He was intercepted by a proud young couple with their little kids all done up in Demon gear. He very obligingly posed for a number of shots with dad and his boys. It was a nice moment. The next drill of interest was match simulation, using the whole ground and three rotating teams. I found Dunne very impressive. The wind was getting up at this time but he got plenty of the ball, handled it cleanly, and kicked long when required. I confess to having doubts about Dunne but he certainly looked good today. Nicholson was also very impressive. He was covering a lot of territory and using the ball well. Watts was also good and always seemed to have plenty of time. Dawes moved well and doesn’t seem to have any injury issues. He made position well but was not dominant. Tom Mac. Spoiled him on occasion. The training was mostly taken by Craig but Neeld did arrive later.

I got down to Gosch’s Paddock this morning. After chatting to Jordie McKenzie it became apparent that Wednesday is not the best day to get to training. He said most of those on lightened loads did the full session on Mondays and Fridays, and then did minimal weight-bearing stuff on a Wednesday. For example, McKenzie, Evans, Spencer, Gawn and Viney did some stoppage work at the start of the session, and then they headed inside for a bike session Other observations: -I didn't see Toumpas, but I arrived at 9.30. Trengove and Joel Mac walked some laps and then went inside with the others and did a bike session. -Clark did some very light 20m straight-line running and that was all. -Taggert, Grimes, Jamar, Davey and Hogan did some stuff inside and then came out and walked some laps. -Bail did repeat effort running by himself for the duration of the session. -Dawes continued to impress me with his mobility at ground level and his strength in marking contests. He rag-dolled Gillies at least a couple of times that I saw. -Frawley spent part of the session working with the forward-line group. Perhaps Neeld sees him as an option down there until big Mitch gets right, considering that we already have Garland, Gillies, Watts, McDonald and Sellar who can play KDP roles??? -It was a very busy session. There were 2 AFL umpires taking the full ground stuff again It mostly focused on ball movement from defence to attack, using both sides of the ground, and on working hard defensively when we don’t have the footy. -Dean Kent is a beautiful kick. Twice I found myself applauding him hitting targets 50m away. -Clisby and Stark did most of the session. Stark struggled a bit to pick up the pace of training, but Clisby was calm, made good decisions and used the ball well. I had a chat to Mitch Clisby and he said he was happy to be doing something other than just running laps. -Tappy completed the session. If he continues to build his tank I think he can useful as a high half forward. -Fitzy was jumping out of his skin. He got on the end of a couple and took some strong marks on the lead. If he can improve this area of his game he can be really dangerous t AFL level.

'Ology is like walking into an old deserted town. The doors swing open..tumbleweed rolls down the dirty street. The few locals who still live there just attack anyone who speaks..regardless of the content. Quite humorous really, but it does get boring rather quickly. The Booze has gone off and the women are nowhere to be seen. 2 Stars.

Got down to see a short session today. Good crowd to start with, reckon quite a few came and watched the first hour before moving onto the tennis. On arrival, at 9.30, Spencer and Jordie McTackle were already leaving. Jamar, Davey and Hulk only had a short appearance walking laps (ditto Frank Grimes and one of the new kids). At on stage Hogan picked up the ball and slotted a drop punt from an impossible angle, very impressed! Didn't see Viney, Toumpas, Captain Jack and a few others. After warm up drills and close in hand pass drills, we went into some end to end work. Had an AFL field and boundary ump there, they don't get any less annoying at training. Used the corridor quite a bit here, though also had a lot of diddly little sideways passes in last line of defence till they chose a better option - fine when it works, not when it doesn't, as seen by Dunn spilling a sitter in the goal square. Usual suspects frustrated with their kicking. Tommy Mac continues to impress me, though constantly needs to improve his kicking, which is better than it was. Blease and Tappscott initially lined up with the forwards. One of the drills kept seeing one or two forwards grab a defenders vest and switch sides. They used the boundary at times, but didn't hesitate to go up the guts when the opportunity arose. One exercise had 3 teams, constantly rotating one off for a short break, another involved simulating a free deep in defence and having to break quickly to clear it. Last exercise, after many had left, involved end to end stuff with little to no pressure. Overall, looking good but let's not get too carried away, saw a bit of the filth's training after ours and we have quite a bit of work still to do. Bail, doing laps early

so just like Moe then?

The article says the board is "haunted" by the 'difficult' season. No we're being haunted by lazy journalists who keep stalking us with their version of the same pathetic "news" story every second day. The board should take out an intervention order.

Spoke to Dom the other day and he said that he currently weighs 70kg with a long term goal to get to 80kg. Has already put on 4kgs since being drafted. Also told me that the coaches want to get at least 1 game into him this year for his development. This kid has a smart head on his shoulders and is way beyond his 18 years of age. He is actually related to Amos Frank from the hawks. At 183 cm and lighting quick skills I'm expecting big things from Dom.

It's something Carlton & Richmond used to do, but that's not important right now

On the 29th of January we will give what will amount to a well worded 'Are you serious?' to these AFL 'charges' and from there the AFL can send it to the AFL Commission to determine our punishment, absolve us of any wrongdoing, or throw a heavily liqoured party with Rodney Dangerfield as MC - "Hey, what the hell am I doing here?" (You have to say that in his voice)

I have left my Collingwood supporter daughter to go home via public transport ( in the rain) rather than the comforts of my warm car parked close by after she mouthed off one time too many to me at the football. I have also given the silent treatment and basically ignored my husband for a week+ after QB.

see Topic

Not you-I just got out of therapy and now this.

I still think he'll be a great player for the club. His first two years were fantastic. He was still ok in 2012, but was a lot more defensive. He laid a lot of tackles, did more grunt work, but wasn't very effective offensively. I thought it was widely noted he developed a form of O.P. and thus lost lots of his running and kicking power. His kicking was well down last year. He wouldn't make the distance from 40 metres out at stages when taking set shots. He'll have an average season this year due to his foot injury and lack of preparation. Missing out on preseason is massive. Even stars like Luke Hodge can't perform when they miss fitness training. It's just crucial in this day and age. Long-term though I think he'll be a star. He is just a superbly rounded player in the Jimmy Bartel mould. He can play anywhere, do the hard stuff, use his skills outside, and take a hanger and nail a goal. With more fitness and development his star will shine and thankfully it will be in a red and blue, as he's a loyal and level-headed guy.

That's Ok, I'd borrow them from my partner. He's a generous bloke.

It's been far too long since anyone has written this here.

So an average of 1.4 free kicks per game against him is too mamy? I do really love how one person puts something in a post on this board and it becomes a self perpectuating myth And I would suggest that he gets to more contests to tackle and maybe give frees away. Jonesy has same average, would you like to say the same about him? And Jordie McKenzie is higher

Agree with your point about the tackling. To me Bail looks good when he is running with the ball in his hands. BUT he gives away soooo many free kicks when not in possession, often at critical times in a game by a head high tackle or by falling into an opponents back. The most annoying thing is he doesn't seem to learn from his mistakes... Drives me freakin crazy.

Bail was working on his break away speed today alone with the trainers. He was jogging to a cone then sprinting (maybe 20m?) and was timed. All around the 4.0-4.4 mark. He then went to run laps. Must have been running for the better part of 2 hours. They could be working on his endurance. Just before 9 Gawn, Spencer, JV, Toumpas, Tom Mc, Nicho and Jordie were running laps. JV was with Nicho and Tom M infront of the others. JV, Nicho and Tom Mc then were kicking 30(?)m passes. Imagine a wire from JVs foot to Nichos chest. Nicho'and Tom Mc kicking looks a lot better but 2 grades below JV. After Spencer and Gawn did ruck work with Toumpas and Jordie below. JV and Nicho joined them later. I'm worried cause JV was the stand out by a mile. Gawn did some good work and seemed to be moving without any issues. Jordie then had a 10 minute kick to kick with Toumpas. Looks like he is working really hard on it - he was concentrating a lot. The rest of the group then emerged for stretches and running. Some in close work followed which I had trouble distinguishing everyone from where I was standing. The match simulations I was a lot closer. There were a lot of full group drills today in 3 groups, mid, fwd and backs. The backs had the better of the other 2 groups. Standouts today were Dunn (hard for me to say that), Jones, Tommy Mc, Nicho, Terlich. I was impressed by Barry's intent, Kents left foot (he looks a little lost in the match sims but he doesn't look like a first year player). Dawes contested marks, Fitzy staying back to work on his kicking for goal, Howes intent, Watts voice, Bleases second efforts, Nicho playing link up, Couchs accumulation.

It is just the Judean People's Front vs. the People's Front of Judea - splitters. But 'land does have the ignore button, blessit!

Gladly post on both, am glad we have two. Different opinions and personalities on both, separating them is a bonus as long term bickering would destroy the one site, at least having 2 sites dilutes this again. 'Ology used to be a fantastic forum, has gone backwards in the last few years due to new members not being able to join, but hopefully, thanks to the great work of a few, it will grow again and have some of the knowledgable conversations that they have had in the past. As for the rivalry, it says more about the posters that encourage it and put down the other site than it does the sites.

Should we play Viney, Toumpas and Barry every single week? If we do, are we deliberately reducing the chance of winning by playing the young and inexperienced? Or are we simply trying to fast-track the development of these kids? Or do we genuinely think they will contribute more to a win than three older, more experienced depth players eg. Joel MacDonald, James Magner and James Sellar If we don't play these kids, are we deliberately reducing the chance of winning by holding back young elite players from the best 22 and instead playing three older, more experienced depth players? Or do we just think think these kids are not ready and should not be rushed in to the big time? Or do we actually think the older depth players will contribute more to a win than these kids? You can see the paradox - whatever we do, anyone can sit back and apply any of the above logic to suit their argument.

its all about history and the nature of the human species

Casey!

I saw a report on ESPN recently where they compared the friction of human skin to the new types of gloves that GridIron receivers and defensive backs are using. The difference was stark - the new gloves have about 8 times the friction, or stickability and are getting better all of the time. The AFL has to nip this one in the bud, ban them now!

Perhaps some kind of explanation might be helpful?

I heard the interview and, as with most, you missed nothing if you didn't. The boys are fitter, which means they should be able to compete better and he looks forward to not being the sole marking target up forward, as Dawes and Pedersen will share the marking/goal kicking load. And he expects to play early in the season as his rehab has progressed according to plan with swimming and bike sessions. Should start running again very soon. That's it.

One thing I've never understood from the get go is why there are two main supporter forums (Land and Ology) and this supposed (and wee bit juvenile) rivalry between them (BF board I group separately as it is part of a larger AFL forum). 1) It's not like we have the largest supporter base. Splitting us up seems a pointless exercise that results in less diversity of opinion and contribution. 2) Several posters seem to post on both sites anyhow. 3) Is Land really that horrible that there is this apparent need for a second forum? When Oology went down I thought finally we might be able to have the one main supporter forum, but I see it's back again. Perhaps there is some greater, logical reason/history behind this? Note: Not trying to [censored]-stir, more genuinely curious.

Was hoping to spark an anti-agist tirade but you've all gone to bed .

now you have to change your name to "ILLDieADemonUnleSSWeTaNk"

I think thats his best spot too. A game late-ish last year saw him playing that role particulary well, taking a lot of strong marks at full pace then delivering into the 50. Early Ryan O'Keefe kind of role.

I'm excited about this Dunne fellow. Anyone have anymore info on him?

Happy to oblige as long as:- 1. They're still on the track when I go home and 2. The train goes past AAMI Park very slowly or stops when we pass by.

I told RL it was the perfect opportunity for us to start a fight which would help get the Dees out of the headlines for a couple of days but he chickened out because off the odds. I was ready to take them on.

All this tanking discussion has got me thinking about how we have recruited this October - it's the anti-tank... Removing of slight bodies that we would have peservered with in a previous incarnation of the club: Morton, Gysberts, Bennell, et al. and replacing them with experienced and/or bigger bodied players who can contribute from day one. It's a healthier exercise what we are doing now. And places a high standard on the 22 that runs out there each week. It is the major thing that I have learnt over these long 5 years - you can't just throw kids, however talented, into the AFL and hope it all comes together in the end (while this may seem glib the fact that MacDonald and Campbell were the only experienced players brought into the club during the Bailey years illustrates this view). They require established leaders to flourish, seasoned bodies to protect, and experienced players to guide. Get in a Viney and a Hogan and a Toumpas but surround them with a Rodan and a Clark and a Byrnes. They don't have to be world beaters but they might influence one to reach those heights.

Yes, Rhino puts a wet blanket on any candle he sees... People like different things and they will get different experiences on both sites. I find Land more than enough for me with the number of people to 'like', disagree with, argue with, and roll my eyes at. And a couple of personalities over there can stay over there - that's as much criticism of Ology as I have. So keep it around - it keeps this place what it is.

Bail is hard. He has a mean streak and always has a dip. Needs to work on his tacking technique, which has hopefully improved with the specialist coaching this preseason, but he can run all day and can play on a wing, either flank or on ball (rover and tagger). If he can't find a spot this year, we're doing pretty bloody well.

Don't call me Shirley.

What, tell the players to lose, why would anyone do that?

bananas, cruise, a bit of tanking experimenting, new recipes, and some jovial light hearted conversations with input from many. A thread that is heaven for a mod. It's akin to reaching the mirage in the middle of an arabian desert and taking a thirst quenching drink before diving (or falling in) from exhaustion.

They can then make their own branded gloves and these will be the only type allowed.

In that case the punishment will have been 7 months of crap and damage to our reputation. Probably not much left of it by now as the general public thinks we are guilty. Never mind we only didd the same as 6 other clubs.

I dont think the AFL will even be that magnanimous - i am tipping "inconclusive and insufficient evidence to bring charges" ( the slap your having when you're not having a slap)

Again no new news. Just a page filler full of innuendo and speculation, I did 'learn' that there is apparently a new charge for Bailey - "Former coach Dean Bailey is facing an additional third charge - of not coaching to his utmost." Utmost? That's an interesting one. Like to see the definition of that. Cos there certainly isn't one in the AFL rules as far as I am aware. Perhaps coaching to you 'extreme' ability?? 'Hey Dean you didn't coach to your extreme ability today just your usual every day garden variety average ability'. 'Off with his head'. It also appears in summary there are some 'disgruntled ex-employees' who perhaps have said we tanked and lots of current employees who say we didn't. No smoking gun. Impossible to charge anyone on that, Particularly when they are laughably focusing on the last 3 mins of the Richmond game, our 'fumbling' and the non playing of Watts. It is comedy central but I won't have a good belly laugh until they exonerate us completely.

8

I think there should be some sort of spot on the rookie list, similar to the international rookie spot, for clubs to place remote indigenous talents on their list. When you consider spots on an AFL list are at a premium, and the extreme difficulty that these guys have to move to the city and adjust to life as an AFL footballer. I just think we have measures in place to bring over Irishmen and Americans who have never played the game, but I think the time has come to give these guys a better chance at a career. I am not sure how you would determine what classifies as a remote indigenous player etc, but I think the idea has merit.

.................. or very possibly, there's nothing more to leak! Let's hope this misguided witch hunt draws to its inevitable conclusion early in February.

I don't agree unless I've missed some things along the way. It tells me that 8 members of the 2009 Board have been interviewed and have denied any knowledge of an intention to lose. I find that very interesting. It also confirms that one of the journalists who is covering this story and getting leaks has no smoking gun and his continued focus on the last three minutes of the Richmond game puts the investigation into keystone cops territory. It's a good article from our point of view.

I just hope Carlton miss top 4 Essendon miss finals West Coast miss top 4 Richmond finish 9th Collingwood don't win the flag and the dees finish 12 or higher

I hear Toumpas almost begging the fitness people to go back into the main training group the other day, but they basically said, your calf has been sore for a while and we dont want it to go properly, so be patient. That all being said, he is running bloody hard and fast when doing his sprints and he is doing heaps of work, so personally I am not sure if it is better than the actually training! He looks to be working harder than the others are.

"Fear not supporters! I will return and smite the other 17 teams." - Mitch Clark* *may not be an actual quote