TMac & Brown

[dl4e 5,604]

Brown is finished. Let him teach the girls and TMAC at Casey to provide experience. Think that is the best we can do.

[BaliDemon 401]

2 minutes ago, DubDee said:

Clearly no list management howler. 

Everyone on here was delighted to have Brown come over. T Mac looked unbelievable at times in 2018 and 2021 and was clearly worth persisting with as Weideman didn’t come on (he was a drafting miss). 

and your contention that heading into 2024 we are wasting two list spots, you really think both will on the list in 2024? not a chance

”Not a chance”? Where do you get your confidence from to post that?

Both are contracted. Neither has made a single noise about retiring.

[Lil_red_fire_engine 10,249]

Impossible to call Brown a howler we took over his contract and without him we dont win a flag. 

Knowing TMac had been up and down in form and injury we should not have extended him a year earlier than when he came out of contrat and certainly not for the length we did. He had just come off a good year and we were trying to not allow free agency get in the way. We should have rolled the dice.

[Engorged Onion 9,391]

16 minutes ago, BaliDemon said:

Brown came for 4 years, not 3 as you’ve stated. 

You are correct about the two of them being crucial to premiership success in 2021 but by the end of 2024, a full three years later, both will have contributed next to nothing to our push for a second flag. THREE full seasons. 

’Let’s be honest’ - that’s not really acceptable. 

What are your terms and conditions for acceptability in those given circumstances. Now unless you were there, and either a player agent, a list manager, or the player themselves, you’re entitled to an opinion no matter how articulate , but actually have no idea about what got things over the line.

have Richmond made an unacceptable list management decision with T Lynch, considering there is a similar trajectory?

contributed nothing? That’s in the eye of the beholder - if you think that football clubs only operate in a vacumn for 2 hours of game day…

Edited September 22, 2023 by Engorged Onion

[DubDee 20,911]

3 minutes ago, BaliDemon said:

”Not a chance”? Where do you get your confidence from to post that?

Both are contracted. Neither has made a single noise about retiring.

so you think Ben Brown and T Mac will be on the list next year? Brown can barely stand up from sitting on a couch the poor fella. If i know anything about his character he will do the right thing and retire. 

[Engorged Onion 9,391]

37 minutes ago, BaliDemon said:

Ahh that old passive aggressive chestnut 🌰 

Shhh … don’t ask any uncomfortable questions 🤫

Reread your posts - It’s not asking uncomfortable questions is it? It’s deriding choices made based on assumptions and things that you presumably have no direct knowledge about.

Apologies if the previous post was passive aggressive - I’ll be more direct in the future.

[Monbon 1,524]

The bottom line is that when these two great players re-signed nobody could know that injury would plague them. There's no use blaming anyone for this sad outcome. It's simply bad luck, 'in the lap of the gods' stuff. I'm sure things will sort themselves out because the bottom line is that this club is now in capable hands.

[nedleg 164]

All I know is there’ll be a lot of red meat and tofu left over if they retire together. 

[BaliDemon 401]

25 minutes ago, Engorged Onion said:

What are your terms and conditions for acceptability in those given circumstances. Now unless you were there, and either a player agent, a list manager, or the player themselves, you’re entitled to an opinion no matter how articulate , but actually have no idea about what got things over the line.

have Richmond made an unacceptable list management decision with T Lynch, considering there is a similar trajectory?

- 3 years was more than adequate for Brown. Negotiating failure to cave to 4. As stated previously he was moving from a bottom club to a club in flag contention. 

- Wait and see on TMac or at most offer 1 year on top of his previous contract’s 2022 expiry. Standard practice with guys nearing or at 30yo, especially older key position players. 

- Tom Lynch a poor comparison. Huge contributor in TWO flags with 2023 being his ONLY non-contributing year in five seasons due to injury. 

I’m always happy to laud good decisions and clap successes, but the difference between me and you it seems EO is that I’m also willing to call out failures and moves which either hurt or hamstring the club. Not out of any vindictiveness but because I always want to see us do better. Maybe you should, too. 

Edited September 22, 2023 by BaliDemon

[binman 38,653]

17 minutes ago, BaliDemon said:

Brown came for 4 years, not 3 as you’ve stated. 

You are correct about the two of them being crucial to premiership success in 2021 but by the end of 2024, a full three years later, both will have contributed next to nothing to our push for a second flag. THREE full seasons. 

’Let’s be honest’ - that’s not really acceptable. 

Sorry, how do you get to Tmac and BB not contributing anything meaningful next year? 

I mean that presupposes neither will be fit and injury free next season. Or even if they are they will still offer nothing. 

Sure, both scenario's are possible, particularly the former

But so is a scenario where one or both have brilliant off seasons (remembering Tmac basically didn't have one after 2022 as he was recovering from complications from his foot surgery) and play key roles in our 2024 season.

Lets be honest, unless you haver the power of seeing the future, or perhaps have access to a top shelf Balinese Shaman, the following statement is not really acceptable: 

• 'By the end of 2024, a full three years later, both will have contributed next to nothing to our push for a second flag. THREE full seasons'

[MadAsHell 4,088]

58 minutes ago, MrFreeze said:

I like this idea, would be good to provide support and knowledge to Adams and Turner

This is the thing. While I don't see it as yet, what's not to say Jed Adams doesn't have a brilliant pre season and is pushing for selection early next year? None of us saw McVee's rise coming at this stage last year. So by moving McDonald back it spreads their positions out and McDonald could be passed as our main defensive back up pretty quick anyway.

[Deebauched 1,219]

Both are premiership players.

Every player retires eventually and its time they both hang up their boots after great careers. Do the right thing so we can free up list space for a couple of forwards and maybe a defender.

Sentiment doesnt apply anymore. Look at the way the media rubbed our loss to Carlton in all our faces.

Time to toughen up mentally MFC.

And dump that Home game in  NT stupidity  right now !

We're not paying footballers 650k /year to be social workers.

 

[dazzledavey36 48,937]

22 minutes ago, DubDee said:

yeah mate, you are the only one that thinks these two guys are too old and injury prone. we are think they are the key to success next year

that you Hutchy?

Lol they are injury prone but..

Clearly evident.

[Ollie fan 2,193]

Gee, this is a particularly vicious thread! We are talking about human beings here, both of whom have worked very hard to try and give value to the club; both contributed mightily to the 21 flag, both have been cut down with injuries.

I suspect Brown will retire but I believe he would have plenty to offer as a mentor at Casey; I don't know what he is being paid but I doubt if it is top dollar. He might also assist with forward line tactics/coaching, and he is already working with the AFLW team. I don't think we should give up on TMac yet.

 

[MrFreeze 1,403]

1 minute ago, MadAsHell said:

This is the thing. While I don't see it as yet, what's not to say Jed Adams doesn't have a brilliant pre season and is pushing for selection early next year? None of us saw McVee's rise coming at this stage last year. So by moving McDonald back it spreads their positions out and McDonald could be passed as our main defensive back up pretty quick anyway.

We are going to be desperate for mature depth at Casey and we need to also maximize the development of Jefferson so I don't want to be clogging our foward line like this year. Jeffo should have the full year to be the no 1 guy at CHF. 

[BaliDemon 401]

9 minutes ago, Engorged Onion said:

Reread your posts - It’s not asking uncomfortable questions is it? It’s deriding choices made based on assumptions and things that you presumably have no direct knowledge about.

Apologies if the previous post was passive aggressive - I’ll be more direct in the future.

So according to your logic, unless a person has intricate, behind-the-scenes knowledge of decision-making processes in an organisation (sporting or otherwise), then they should just keep their mouth shut? Maybe you should re-read your posts because they seem incredibly closed minded. 

Blind faith is rarely a good quality to exhibit in any walk of life. Perfectly fine for members and supporters to ask hard questions of their football club when it’s more than apparent certain decisions were ill-conceived or poorly executed. They’re just questions EO. Words on a page. Perhaps ask yourself why you’re so sensitive about them and feel this constant need to sound off on the messenger. 

[layzie 29,092]

The likelihood is that Brown will retire. He simply can't get on the park for an extended period of time now without the knee playing up.

T-Mac would likely stay on for his final year. You would hope as depth but if he's unable to provide the movement we need from him then he could well be a pricey VFL player. 

[BaliDemon 401]

21 minutes ago, binman said:

Sorry, how do you get to Tmac and BB not contributing anything meaningful next year? 

I mean that presupposes neither will be fit and injury free next season. Or even if they are they will still offer nothing. 

Sure, both scenario's are possible, particularly the former

But so is a scenario where one or both have brilliant off seasons (remembering Tmac basically didn't have one after 2022 as he was recovering from complications from his foot surgery) and play key roles in our 2024 season.

Lets be honest, unless you haver the power of seeing the future, or perhaps have access to a top shelf Balinese Shaman, the following statement is not really acceptable: 

• 'By the end of 2024, a full three years later, both will have contributed next to nothing to our push for a second flag. THREE full seasons'

I asked a Balinese Shaman what we can do about TMac. He replied:

”Tidak ada apa-apa. Dia bergerak lebih lambat dari seorang pemalas. Dia sudah matang “.

( “Nothing. He now moves slower than a sloth. He’s cooked.” )

Edited September 22, 2023 by BaliDemon

[BaliDemon 401]

19 minutes ago, Deebauched said:

Both are premiership players.

Every player retires eventually and its time they both hang up their boots after great careers. Do the right thing so we can free up list space for a couple of forwards and maybe a defender.

Sentiment doesnt apply anymore. Look at the way the media rubbed our loss to Carlton in all our faces.

Time to toughen up mentally MFC.

And dump that Home game in  NT stupidity  right now !

We're not paying footballers 650k /year to be social workers.

 

Good post 👏🏼

[Deebauched 1,219]

11 minutes ago, Ollie fan said:

Gee, this is a particularly vicious thread! We are talking about human beings here, both of whom have worked very hard to try and give value to the club; both contributed mightily to the 21 flag, both have been cut down with injuries.

I suspect Brown will retire but I believe he would have plenty to offer as a mentor at Casey; I don't know what he is being paid but I doubt if it is top dollar. He might also assist with forward line tactics/coaching, and he is already working with the AFLW team. I don't think we should give up on TMac yet.

 

Disagree.  No- ones attacking them. Brown and Tmac are at the end of their careers. Pay them out then they join the MFC coterie club along with Hibberd and show off their premiership pins. If Brown wants to coach the tik tok girls thats fine so long as he's off the list. Thats fair.

[Engorged Onion 9,391]

17 minutes ago, BaliDemon said:

So according to your logic, unless a person has intricate, behind-the-scenes knowledge of decision-making processes in an organisation (sporting or otherwise), then they should just keep their mouth shut? Maybe you should re-read your posts because they seem incredibly closed minded. 

Blind faith is rarely a good quality to exhibit in any walk of life. Perfectly fine for members and supporters to ask hard questions of their football club when it’s more than apparent certain decisions were ill-conceived or poorly executed. They’re just questions EO. Words on a page. Perhaps ask yourself why you’re so sensitive about them and feel this constant need to sound off on the messenger. 

I’ll be disengaging, mostly because there is an infinite loop of trying to convince each other that our opinion is the correct opinion, and the other layer of me being sensitive, and you being sensitive to me being sensitive and feeling a need to be a condescending [censored]… 😎❤️

Edited September 22, 2023 by Engorged Onion

[old55 21,384]

22 minutes ago, BaliDemon said:

I’m always happy to laud good decisions and clap successes, but the difference between me and you it seems EO is that I’m also willing to call out failures and moves which either hurt or hamstring the club. Not out of any vindictiveness but because I always want to see us do better. Maybe you should, too. 

You arrived here 5 minutes ago and I haven't seen too much "lauding".  Tim Lamb and the MFC list management team have done a superb job over many years and there are always going to be some outliers. 

Just take a look at our list of out of contract players over the next two years - only Sparrow and Bowey really warrant a major pay increase next year and Petty and Van Rooyen's new contract will be offset by May and Gawn moving to short term contracts or retiring.   We'll be freeing at least $2M of salary cap to target a gun FA or trade.  And our list management teams' record suggest they'll successfully pull it off.

 

[Bring-Back-Powell 13,293]

 

17 minutes ago, Ollie fan said:

I suspect Brown will retire but I believe he would have plenty to offer as a mentor at Casey; I don't know what he is being paid but I doubt if it is top dollar.

 

Would be around the $650K mark at a guess.

I would assume the club and player will come to a financial settlement and he retires in the coming weeks.

Not sure the club will be keen on nursing him for the third time in four years, albeit did get a significant pay off in 2021.

[layzie 29,092]

3 minutes ago, Engorged Onion said:

I’ll be disengaging, mostly because there is an infinite loop of trying to convince each other that our opinion is the correct opinion, and the other layer of me being sensitive, and you being sensitive to me being sensitive and feeling a need to be a condescending [censored]… 😎❤️

The worst is when someone literally says "I believe my opinion to be the correct one". 

[BaliDemon 401]

3 minutes ago, Engorged Onion said:

I’ll be disengaging, mostly because there is an infinite loop of trying to convince each other that our opinion is the correct opinion, and the other layer of me being sensitive, and you being sensitive to me being sensitive and feeling a need to be a condescending [censored]… 😎❤️

Disengaging probably the smart move. Quit while you’re behind 🫠