9 hours ago, Watson11 said:

Our really important players all played. Against the blues 3 games ago Melk and JVR didn’t kick a goal between them from 6 and 7 disposals, so how can we claim their absence was the reason we lost when Smith kicked 3? And Petty needs a full season up forward.  He had one and a half good games up forward this season, so no history to give you confidence he would deliver in finals. We can agree to disagree.  

 

Gus was best on ground against Carlton in the home and away game. So there were a few big outs.

One think I think we have lost is our hard edge. I like that Pickett and JVR (misguidedly) tried to have some physical presence. May has lost his aggression on the man as has most of the team sans Viney. 
 

look at the lack of physical response when Gus was KOed. No one went after Maynard. No one really did anything. Collingwood have it. Lions have it. We don’t and it’s cost us in my opinion. 
 

Premiership teams aren’t likeable. They're tough and fierce. They intimidate and create physical pressure. 
 

I am sick and tired of seeing Melbourne players such as Trac and Smith helping opposition players off the ground and patting them on the back. You’d never see Voss, Hodge, Scarlett or the elite finals players do that. 

2 minutes ago, MoeSyzlak said:

look at the lack of physical response when Gus was KOed. No one went after Maynard. No one really did anything. Collingwood have it. Lions have it. We don’t and it’s cost us in my opinion. 

No one?

 

2 minutes ago, MoeSyzlak said:

Premiership teams aren’t likeable. They're tough and fierce. They intimidate and create physical pressure.

Sparrow went in to a couple of Carlton floppers when they were trying something and Walsh dived in to the fence.

It’s very tricky to intimate without flop artists milking it and costing you goals. 

13 minutes ago, MoeSyzlak said:

One think I think we have lost is our hard edge. I like that Pickett and JVR (misguidedly) tried to have some physical presence. May has lost his aggression on the man as has most of the team sans Viney. 
 

look at the lack of physical response when Gus was KOed. No one went after Maynard. No one really did anything. Collingwood have it. Lions have it. We don’t and it’s cost us in my opinion. 
 

Premiership teams aren’t likeable. They're tough and fierce. They intimidate and create physical pressure. 
 

I am sick and tired of seeing Melbourne players such as Trac and Smith helping opposition players off the ground and patting them on the back. You’d never see Voss, Hodge, Scarlett or the elite finals players do that. 

Poor discipline cost us jvr. Stupid indisciplined actions cost us at vital moments as well.

channel any angry into the contest. Win the game. There’s no better way to deal with to show your toughness than that.

We definitely need luck, good luck too not just normal luck. 

Get down to the store and get bags full of luck. That and a team that takes their chances early, that's literally all we need.

On 9/16/2023 at 7:25 PM, dee-tox said:

I've been a relative fan. Young, hard running blue collar mid. Solid citizen as well. But now I think we can do better. Apart from his first game back this year he's been bog ordinary and we have to find someone better. Someone that is more attacking and can make more impact. 

Me also Dee-tox I was expecting Sparrow ✅ Rivers✅and JJ 👎to step up big time this year and he seems to have gone backwards, played a couple of ripper games at Casey but not cut it at AFL.sad.!!

Picked up on something from Goodwin presser that he would be more involved in the drafting process of new players, just sounded like he wasn’t happy with how this had taken place… 

Edited September 17, 20231 yr by Demonsone

10 minutes ago, Demonsone said:

Picked up on something from Goodwin presser that he would be more involved in the drafting process of new players, just sounded like he wasn’t happy with how this had taken place… 

He basically orchestrated the Grundy trade though. He wined and dined Grundy.

I was bored

B: Turner May Bowey

HB: Rivers Lever McVee

C: Woewodin Viney Hunter 

HF: ANB Petty Spargo

F: Pickett JVR Fritsch

R: Gawn Oliver Petracca

I: AMW Sparrow Howes Recruit/Draftee

S: Smith

Get the youngsters in. Salem and Langdon are tradeable

Edited September 17, 20231 yr by Roost it far

38 minutes ago, At the break of Gawn said:

He basically orchestrated the Grundy trade though. He wined and dined Grundy.

If this is the case, then it doesn’t exactly fill me with hope. 

I must confess I never fully understood the thinking behind drafting Grundy, and with the “luxury” of hindsight, my confusion was justified. And if it was a Goodwin-led move, then I’d suggest him getting deeper-involved with our drafting is bad idea. 

19 hours ago, MoeSyzlak said:

One think I think we have lost is our hard edge. I like that Pickett and JVR (misguidedly) tried to have some physical presence. May has lost his aggression on the man as has most of the team sans Viney. 
 

look at the lack of physical response when Gus was KOed. No one went after Maynard. No one really did anything. Collingwood have it. Lions have it. We don’t and it’s cost us in my opinion. 
 

Premiership teams aren’t likeable. They're tough and fierce. They intimidate and create physical pressure. 
 

I am sick and tired of seeing Melbourne players such as Trac and Smith helping opposition players off the ground and patting them on the back. You’d never see Voss, Hodge, Scarlett or the elite finals players do that. 

It's understandable to yearn for the aggressive and intimidating qualities of previous teams, especially in contact sports like Aussie Rules football, where the physical nature is indeed a component of the game. However, aggression can provide a competitive edge, but there's a distinction to be made between functional aggression, which is channeled to enhance performance, and dysfunctional aggression, which might lead to penalties, suspensions, and undermine team cohesion.

High-performing athletes often possess superior emotional regulation skills. Reacting aggressively or seeking revenge after a teammate is injured might feel right in the moment, but it can jeopardize the overarching game strategy. Staying focused on the end goal rather than immediate retaliation is crucial.

Furthermore, a successful team often prioritizes a culture of respect, both internally and externally.

Helping an opponent off the ground isn't necessarily indicative of weakness; it can be a reflection of a broader culture of sportsmanship. Such actions can foster a positive team environment, underpinning mutual respect and collaboration.

A sense of unity, camaraderie, and mutual trust, often referred to as team cohesion, plays a significant role in sports success. A team culture rooted in mutual respect and understanding can be more conducive to promoting such cohesion than a purely aggressive one. The realm of modern coaching also provides insight. There's been a shift from dictatorial styles to more transformational approaches, which emphasize player well-being, psychological safety, and holistic development. Empathy, understanding, and clear communication have now become central to effective coaching.

From a long-term perspective, while intimidating tactics might reap short-term benefits, they might lead to long-term challenges, like increased injury rates or mental health issues. By focusing on player well-being and fostering sustainable development, teams can ensure that athletes remain in peak condition, both mentally and physically, throughout their careers.

And... while iconic players like Voss, Hodge, and Scarlett are often cited as paragons of toughness, elite sport is filled with examples of top athletes who've demonstrated sportsmanship alongside their competitiveness.

 

1. Composure and skill under pressure…

2. More of number 1 

I've warmed to the idea of getting a key defender, not a key forward. Someone who can intercept and play the third tall while we swing Petty forward.

Steven May will be 32 by the time next season rolls around, it would be nice if we got someone who could eventually take his place too. 

Depth

Outside Mids with Speed

Mature Backs and Forwards

Mature Ruck

The best sports psychologist in the country. 

On 9/16/2023 at 7:11 AM, monoccular said:

Need to review our footwear probably in association a podiatrist  regarding our foot injuries - were Fritsch and Petty (and TMc over the last two years) to have not had those mid foot injuries we would have been preparing for a PF since last weekend. Is it just bad luck, or is it to do with footwear?

And whilst on footwear too many players just slip over too often.  

Exactly,  how many times did Langdon slip over. Change boots 🙄

1 minute ago, ANG13 said:

The best sports psychologist in the country. 

It's been hard to bring this subject up without someone pointing out that we've won the ultimate success but I think there is merit to it. 

4 finals in a row on the MCG, 3 of them with horrible inaccuracy in front of goal that cost us in the end. Instead of putting this down to just bad luck and hoping for it to be different next time if would be good to drill down into this and find out why this is happening. 

Great teams are mentally sound when it counts and they don't kick 17 behinds in finals too often. You could look at things like execution under pressure in the last few minutes as well but I'm not as critical on the Viney and McVee mistakes because that is largely fatigue factor and we've seen those guys stand up time and time again this year. We should have never been in that spot in the first place. 

we're in the 'win now' phase of our current list build; the notion of trading salem or langdon is absurd

we don't need to replace our experienced players - particularly those like salem who are theoretically our most skilled players by foot - with speculative draft picks

1 hour ago, whatwhat say what said:

we're in the 'win now' phase of our current list build; the notion of trading salem or langdon is absurd

we don't need to replace our experienced players - particularly those like salem who are theoretically our most skilled players by foot - with speculative draft picks

Agree wholeheartedly. Choi (who is handy),was playing VFL at the weekend and some are speculating that he is our potentially great saviour. There is a reason he is not a lock at both Richmond & GCS

Really need ALL players to practise their kicking skills, learn to lower their eyes and hit up our open players. Do that and this years cup would have been ours. Then another one is for Goody to not make silly selections like last Friday which has been flogged to death.

13 minutes ago, dimmy said:

Agree wholeheartedly. Choi (who is handy),was playing VFL at the weekend and some are speculating that he is our potentially great saviour. There is a reason he is not a lock at both Richmond & GCS

mabior chol, you mean?

if he makes our afl side's forward 5 in 2024 then we're either bit by the injury bug, again, or we're destined for somewhere between 5-10 on the ladder

2 hours ago, layzie said:

It's been hard to bring this subject up without someone pointing out that we've won the ultimate success but I think there is merit to it. 

4 finals in a row on the MCG, 3 of them with horrible inaccuracy in front of goal that cost us in the end. Instead of putting this down to just bad luck and hoping for it to be different next time if would be good to drill down into this and find out why this is happening. 

Great teams are mentally sound when it counts and they don't kick 17 behinds in finals too often. You could look at things like execution under pressure in the last few minutes as well but I'm not as critical on the Viney and McVee mistakes because that is largely fatigue factor and we've seen those guys stand up time and time again this year. We should have never been in that spot in the first place. 

But was it horrible kicking for goal or horrible forward efficiency?

Because Gawn had a Gawn set shot. And the spoil on Oliver’s shot (which was mostly his fault but also the teams for not having multiple players on the line).

And otherwise Fritsch missed a couple of what are probably 50:50’s for most players but more like 70:30’s for him. Quite possibly he was down 20% due to injury/match fitness.

On expected score I think we were about 3 goals under. That’s significant, but hardly a massive butcher job when so many were low percentage.

Im much more worried about the players inabilities to take risks with the ball up field and moving quickly to marking forwards than I am pure goal kicking.

But I’m also of the belief that a couple of healthy key forwards and a fraction more class and speed from midfield and half back fixes that problem.

2 hours ago, layzie said:

It's been hard to bring this subject up without someone pointing out that we've won the ultimate success but I think there is merit to it. 

I think psychologically it’s as simple as some changes in personnel. The forward line need a new coach, simply for the psychological benefit of a new voice. The reality is we were decimated by injuries, but 70% of our first choice forward line played in the finals and will benefit from some fresh thinking.

I also think we need to move a behind the ball player into the midfield - Salem or Bowey. We get 4 more shots a week from directly in front 30-40 out and we probably win 2-3 more games.

Sell that to our players and they’d be much more optimistic going into 2024.

 

1 hour ago, whatwhat say what said:

we're in the 'win now' phase of our current list build; the notion of trading salem or langdon is absurd

we don't need to replace our experienced players - particularly those like salem who are theoretically our most skilled players by foot - with speculative draft picks

I'm not so sure about the win now, no question we can play finals again in 2024, but I'm not sure we can win.  This isn't just from the last 2 weeks we just lack that polish, no doubt we are a great contested team but the new contenders are more balanced with contested and skill.

I see 2024 as a dangerous year for the club, we might need to step back to go forward.