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18 minutes ago, Bonkers said:

Langdon was a key part of us winning in 21 but I am seeing that maybe his time could be coming. Hunter is an accumulator but doesn't do much damage with the ball either. I think we could look at being more dynamic in both of those positions. 

Food for thought re the wingers though I felt Hunter was the more effective of the two throughout the season.

My thinking is that our back 3 talls have the role of overhead interception, spoiling opposition fwd talls and feeding it off to our attacking half backs and wingers. For mine May,Lever and Tomlinson are the most reliable and effective combination to fulfill the talls function and they have repeatedly delivered. I think we've had some issues with the smaller backs/runners - Hibbo has been on/off injured and now is gone, Salo has been down with both McVie and Bowey being good to serviceable. We don't appear to need much honing defensively but the delivery into the fwds from the running half backs, wingers and onballers has been way below average and seems to have contributed markedly to our going out in straight sets again.

It's no good our onballers being great accumulators but not being able to hit  a target either whilst on the run or from a mark/free. Surely elite players can train to improve one of the most fundamental skills of the game...I, as Binman noted on the poddie last night, watched the GWS foot skills and delivery into the fwd line and felt insanely jealous. How come our boys can't kick a footy anywhere near like that? New skills coaches who can rectify this and also help the upfielder's connection with fwds be more sophisticated than a Hail Mary bomb would go a long way to sorting out what is a mess.

Our fwds - they, alongside their upfield comrades, all need work on snap & set shots. For mine, the fwds who looked the goods in at least one of the finals included Fritta, Smithy, Nibbler and Kossie ( to a lesser extent ). Spargo worked well upfield and kicked more effectively than most Redleggers . It's clear that we need another fwd tall to replace TMac and BBB - be great if that replacement was fit for purpose,ready to go, not TOO old and competitive in the air.

Feel that Chandler and maybe Charlie have left the door open for others - Kossie could do with a clear message on playing to his strengths and be made aware that his weekly selection is not a given.

 

 

 

 

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I feel our biggest Achilles heel is both field kicking and goal kicking - a 10% improvement in both and we are probably playing this weekend 

Easy in theory but not sure it's possible to achieve without some different playing personnel - unfortunately some of our best players are actually also the worst offenders.

It's going to be quite fascinating to see what the club does over the off season. 

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2 hours ago, Diamond Tim said:

Food for thought re the wingers though I felt Hunter was the more effective of the two throughout the season.

My thinking is that our back 3 talls have the role of overhead interception, spoiling opposition fwd talls and feeding it off to our attacking half backs and wingers. For mine May,Lever and Tomlinson are the most reliable and effective combination to fulfill the talls function and they have repeatedly delivered. I think we've had some issues with the smaller backs/runners - Hibbo has been on/off injured and now is gone, Salo has been down with both McVie and Bowey being good to serviceable. We don't appear to need much honing defensively but the delivery into the fwds from the running half backs, wingers and onballers has been way below average and seems to have contributed markedly to our going out in straight sets again.

It's no good our onballers being great accumulators but not being able to hit  a target either whilst on the run or from a mark/free. Surely elite players can train to improve one of the most fundamental skills of the game...I, as Binman noted on the poddie last night, watched the GWS foot skills and delivery into the fwd line and felt insanely jealous. How come our boys can't kick a footy anywhere near like that? New skills coaches who can rectify this and also help the upfielder's connection with fwds be more sophisticated than a Hail Mary bomb would go a long way to sorting out what is a mess.

Our fwds - they, alongside their upfield comrades, all need work on snap & set shots. For mine, the fwds who looked the goods in at least one of the finals included Fritta, Smithy, Nibbler and Kossie ( to a lesser extent ). Spargo worked well upfield and kicked more effectively than most Redleggers . It's clear that we need another fwd tall to replace TMac and BBB - be great if that replacement was fit for purpose,ready to go, not TOO old and competitive in the air.

Feel that Chandler and maybe Charlie have left the door open for others - Kossie could do with a clear message on playing to his strengths and be made aware that his weekly selection is not a given.

 

 

 

 

I don't think we need to do much with our tall defenders. We have Petty ,Tomlinson as well as Turner. If we are able to bring in another Tall Forward and Ruck / General Forward we would be ok for Key Position Spots. We also have Smith as insurance for both ends of the ground. They could look for insurance for May and his eventual replacement in the draft this year I suppose, however I think there are more pressing issues to help us contend again next year.

I also watched the GWS game and it was evident that their midfield was generally more athletic than ours and on the outside clearly better ball users. I don't know enough about the draft talent in this years draft but I think the profile of midfielder, wing or half forward flank we should be going for is someone like Duursma who can cover the ground easily and use the available space on the dangerous side of the ground to transition the ball and create opportunities. We are great at contested footy and defence, however we aren't really damaging on the switch or by running the ball. This is where teams are scoring more freely by using space at the back or sides of the defence. If we could add to that side of our game I think it would be a 2 goal a game better scoring side whilst not really having to change too much defensively. We already have the midfield bulls and should be able to compliment them by building the list around them.

The area for improvement in the forward line is probably Chandler and Spargo. Spargo was good with creative play against Carlton and did some good things resulting in goals as others mentioned he can go missing in games, I don't think we got enough out of Chandler in the finals either. JVR, Petty, ANB, Kozzie and Fritsch are all locks. But there are 2 spots up for grabs IMO in terms of a KPF and another forward to come  in for Chandler. 

 

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Goodwin needs to change the game plan become more daring & stop this bs down the line bombing & use the corridor.

List changes need a fwds big and small

New assistant coaches including a kicking coach to address field & goal kicking

Fitness coach as it’s never been the same since Burgess

As Lyon said suck it up and players come back fitter stronger and forget 2023

 

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14 hours ago, Fat Tony said:

Salem is not quick enough and does not have good enough endurance to play wing. If he could run, we would not have recruited Langdon, Tomlinson and Hunter.

Salem needs to get back some power/drive in order to be able to break lines and kick further or he will playing half back flank for Casey.

Your solution to our problems (Salem's lack of drive off half back and our wingers being ordinary kicks) comes up with a worse outcome because we will breakdown defensively due to Salem not being a good enough runner.

Which is why I said he needs to apply himself. 

Everyone knows when a player is doing everything they can to get in the best shape possible. You only have to look at Oliver and Petracca's body transformation to see this. They're both the ultimate professionals when it comes to training and diet and both have extremely low body fat percentage. 

Brayshaw and Salem both need to take a leaf. Salem will never have the running capacity of Langdon, but neither did Brayshaw and he has played a significant amount of footy on the wing. So I disagree with the idea that Salem can't. It's up to him, he needs to get his body right and we need to see a physical change. Similar to Lewis and Hodge in their later careers. Drop some kg's, improve your diet and you'll cover the ground better. 

Salem played a lot of his underage footy at half forward and wing and I think he's just being wasted at half back right now and a new positional change could get him going. 

Look across the competition and not every winger can run like Langdon and not every one needs to depending on how they're utelised. 

Edited by JimmyGadson
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5 hours ago, JimmyGadson said:

Which is why I said he needs to apply himself. 

Everyone knows when a player is doing everything they can to get in the best shape possible. You only have to look at Oliver and Petracca's body transformation to see this. They're both the ultimate professionals when it comes to training and diet and both have extremely low body fat percentage. 

Brayshaw and Salem both need to take a leaf. Salem will never have the running capacity of Langdon, but neither did Brayshaw and he has played a significant amount of footy on the wing. So I disagree with the idea that Salem can't. It's up to him, he needs to get his body right and we need to see a physical change. Similar to Lewis and Hodge in their later careers. Drop some kg's, improve your diet and you'll cover the ground better. 

Salem played a lot of his underage footy at half forward and wing and I think he's just being wasted at half back right now and a new positional change could get him going. 

Look across the competition and not every winger can run like Langdon and not every one needs to depending on how they're utelised. 

Bit harsh on Salem ,he was pretty crook earlier in the year.

Brayshaw will never win the Stawell Gift, but IS a footballer and is FLEXIBLE. HBF,Midfield,HFF .How many times does he appear in defence. He reads the game.

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6 hours ago, JimmyGadson said:

Which is why I said he needs to apply himself. 

Everyone knows when a player is doing everything they can to get in the best shape possible. You only have to look at Oliver and Petracca's body transformation to see this. They're both the ultimate professionals when it comes to training and diet and both have extremely low body fat percentage. 

Brayshaw and Salem both need to take a leaf. Salem will never have the running capacity of Langdon, but neither did Brayshaw and he has played a significant amount of footy on the wing. So I disagree with the idea that Salem can't. It's up to him, he needs to get his body right and we need to see a physical change. Similar to Lewis and Hodge in their later careers. Drop some kg's, improve your diet and you'll cover the ground better. 

Salem played a lot of his underage footy at half forward and wing and I think he's just being wasted at half back right now and a new positional change could get him going. 

Look across the competition and not every winger can run like Langdon and not every one needs to depending on how they're utelised. 

I think you are dreaming.

Underage footy is irrelevant given Salem will be going into his 11th season. We know what he can and can't do. He's not a great runner, which is why we played Jones and Lewis on the wing in 2018/19 and then recruited Langdon, Tomlinson and Hunter. Jordon, Brayshaw and Harmes were given more chances on the wing in recent years.

And I don't think he is carrying excess weight.

 

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On 9/20/2023 at 3:34 AM, JimmyGadson said:

My positive thinking and hopes for season 2024:

(clearly not all possible but what I'd love to see) 

Experienced assistant midfield and forwards coach. As good as Stafford and Yze have been, I think it's time for evolution/change. Everyone can see it. I think Goodwin needs to be seriously challenged about aspects of our game and if we got some stronger personalities around the club I think it would also lift the playing group and breathe new life into the group. 

I think Ratten and Dew could be targets. I'm not sure on the status of Don Pyke, but he transformed the swans attacking game and I think we need someone of that ilk to come in and add some layers to Goodwin's defence and contest based borefest. I think the players would benefit from that as much as our game-plan would. Can you imagine going into another gruelling pre-season hearing Goodwin drive home the same message he has for three years? It would be so uninspiring and it just can't happen. Our players were bored enough in season during games, switching off for periods only to 'get going' when the game was on the line. Our method and game-plan message and implementation is so much more than what people think. God, even our supporters switch off at games because of the robotic and boring nature we play. It's time for change. It has a flow-on effect. I know the 'pro-Goodwin borefest' posters on here will think I don't take enough of a 'nuanced view' to really understand how 'rock solid' out game plan is. But when you have past players like Jordan Lewis come out and criticise our forward-half game, you know it's not only supporters that believe change is needed. 

Now I agree that a lot of our game is in great working order. But the area that is broken has lost us so many games that we 'should have won' of the last few years it's genuinely nauseating. 

Over the off-season, I'd like to see one Salem trialled at half-forward or wing. I want Salem to have a pre-season like Petracca and Oliver and lose some kg's so that he at least has the same running capacity as Trac. 

I want us to do everything in our power to draft McKertcher and give him a Nick Daicos quarter back role in his first year. He has already has a better tank than Salem and has better vision, ball use and speed than both of them. 

Our second pick should be on Nick Watson who plays a specialist forward pocket role in his first year with Kosi getting more midfield time. Simply put, with the sheer amount of inside 50's we get a game, we need more opportunistic, classy and great finishing forwards. Watson ticks every box. His height is irrelevant. He brings crazy energy, is a finisher and uses the ball unbelievably well. 

A mature forward who can take tuck contests is a must in my view and we have the money to throw at a player. I like the Tom Lynch call although I'd do anything to get Naughton. Regardless of his kicking. The amount of contests he hits tht result in spill ball is of value enough. There's no one like him in that regard and given our inside 50 effeciency will never be perfect, we need forwards who will consistently bring ball to ground and/or mark the ball when they have no right to. Naughton is that to a T. 

I'd also bring in a mature ruck and start managing Max throughout the year. Take your pick of Fullarton or Flynn. And I'd trial both over pre-season with Max playing behind the ball rather than going forward at times his on the ground. 

Watson       Naughton      Fritsch 

 ANB              Petty            McAdam

Salem            Oliver          Langdon

McKertcher    Lever         Rivers

Turner            May           McVee

 

Gawn            Petracca       Kosi

 

Interchange:  Fullarton  Viney  Bowey  Sparrow

 

*Brayshaw in the wings when ready to return. 

 

That side to me already looks more balanced. I think JVR still needs time to develop. He wasn't playing anywhere near the level required for the last quarter of the season. It breathes new life all over the ground. I think the Kosi, McKertcher and Salem positions will be a boost as far as ball movement goes and that's without the instructional change that will come over pre-season. 

Someone like Naughton in our forwardline would be game changing and with Watson we only gain another kosi but with more consistency imv. He has runs on the board. 

In that scenario you’d lose the picks to get McKertcher and Watson. Why not say to the dogs we’ll swap you Lever for Naughton or Jamara. Then we play Petty and Turner back and keep JVR forward. We’re going to have to give up something substantial to get a key forward. Is Lever really untouchable? 

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1 hour ago, dimmy said:

Bit harsh on Salem ,he was pretty crook earlier in the year.

Brayshaw will never win the Stawell Gift, but IS a footballer and is FLEXIBLE. HBF,Midfield,HFF .How many times does he appear in defence. He reads the game.

Harsh on Salem. I love the guy but he was borderline ineffectual the last 6 weeks. He needs the change, I’d love to see him forward or traded.

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On 9/19/2023 at 6:22 AM, Kent said:

There is a gaping hole in our list 23 to 27 years

That's what happens when you ignore the draft for multiple years. 2016 - 2018 in our case.

And too many fringe players given long term deals, eg Spargo and Chandler, presumably to push salary cap issues down the road. 

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1 hour ago, poita said:

That's what happens when you ignore the draft for multiple years. 2016 - 2018 in our case.

And too many fringe players given long term deals, eg Spargo and Chandler, presumably to push salary cap issues down the road. 

Not every player is a star (at AFL Level) .

The cadets are Woewodin,Turner ,Laurie ,Howes

The Gunners . Spargo ,Chandler,  Tomlinson & Jordon come into that category.

The Bombadiers (one step up) are Sparrow,Bowey,Pickett,McVee, , The seargents are ANB, Hunter , Langdon & Lever

The Seargent majors (who really run the show) are Jack Viney & Steve May

The Looeys : Rivers, Fritsch & JVR

Captain : Gus

Half Colonels  Oliver

Generals : Maximillius & Trac

 An army cannot have too many generals, Colonels etc because the mundane things in the "battle" are mostly done on the front. The quality of the leaders have a great impact, BUT so do the work of the Gunners.

Point of this is that the role of everyone makes a Unit

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2 hours ago, picket fence said:

I'd through Jessie Hogan a three/four year deal and  Godfather offer to get him back in the Red and Blue!

Sorry that should have been throw, not through😬

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On 9/21/2023 at 12:23 PM, dimmy said:

Not every player is a star (at AFL Level) .

The cadets are Woewodin,Turner ,Laurie ,Howes

The Gunners . Spargo ,Chandler,  Tomlinson & Jordon come into that category.

The Bombadiers (one step up) are Sparrow,Bowey,Pickett,McVee, , The seargents are ANB, Hunter , Langdon & Lever

The Seargent majors (who really run the show) are Jack Viney & Steve May

The Looeys : Rivers, Fritsch & JVR

Captain : Gus

Half Colonels  Oliver

Generals : Maximillius & Trac

 An army cannot have too many generals, Colonels etc because the mundane things in the "battle" are mostly done on the front. The quality of the leaders have a great impact, BUT so do the work of the Gunners.

Point of this is that the role of everyone makes a Unit

I love your military analogy Dimmy you are so right from top to bottom every link in the chain every cog in the machine is critical to success or failure. We were so near yet so far. 😢

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On 9/20/2023 at 3:10 PM, Bonkers said:

I don't think we need to do much with our tall defenders. We have Petty ,Tomlinson as well as Turner. If we are able to bring in another Tall Forward and Ruck / General Forward we would be ok for Key Position Spots. We also have Smith as insurance for both ends of the ground. They could look for insurance for May and his eventual replacement in the draft this year I suppose, however I think there are more pressing issues to help us contend again next year.

I also watched the GWS game and it was evident that their midfield was generally more athletic than ours and on the outside clearly better ball users. I don't know enough about the draft talent in this years draft but I think the profile of midfielder, wing or half forward flank we should be going for is someone like Duursma who can cover the ground easily and use the available space on the dangerous side of the ground to transition the ball and create opportunities. We are great at contested footy and defence, however we aren't really damaging on the switch or by running the ball. This is where teams are scoring more freely by using space at the back or sides of the defence. If we could add to that side of our game I think it would be a 2 goal a game better scoring side whilst not really having to change too much defensively. We already have the midfield bulls and should be able to compliment them by building the list around them.

The area for improvement in the forward line is probably Chandler and Spargo. Spargo was good with creative play against Carlton and did some good things resulting in goals as others mentioned he can go missing in games, I don't think we got enough out of Chandler in the finals either. JVR, Petty, ANB, Kozzie and Fritsch are all locks. But there are 2 spots up for grabs IMO in terms of a KPF and another forward to come  in for Chandler. 

 

I think that you are on the money Bonkers the GWS midfield have a bit more height pace and athleticism in the team allowing them to hold the ball longer and feed off cleaner than our hack it forward style of play. We use handball effectively but they do it better.!!

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5 hours ago, DeeZone said:

I think that you are on the money Bonkers the GWS midfield have a bit more height pace and athleticism in the team allowing them to hold the ball longer and feed off cleaner than our hack it forward style of play. We use handball effectively but they do it better.!!

Also the height of their midfielders gives them an advantage in marking contests. That was a big factor for the Giants in the second quarter. 

I worry we have too many midgets.  Viney, Spargo, Kozzie, Chandler, Laurie, Bowey, etc. That's one third of our team and one of the reasons I'm not so keen on drafting Watson.

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2 minutes ago, dee-tox said:

Also the height of their midfielders gives them an advantage in marking contests. That was a big factor for the Giants in the second quarter. 

I worry we have too many midgets.  Viney, Spargo, Kozzie, Chandler, Laurie, Bowey, etc. That's one third of our team and one of the reasons I'm not so keen on drafting Watson.

Agree Dee-tox we need a Tom Greene and Dursma type midfielders to complement our mosquito fleet, and I want one added each year until we balance up our team.!!!

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8 minutes ago, dee-tox said:

Also the height of their midfielders gives them an advantage in marking contests. That was a big factor for the Giants in the second quarter. 

I worry we have too many midgets.  Viney, Spargo, Kozzie, Chandler, Laurie, Bowey, etc. That's one third of our team and one of the reasons I'm not so keen on drafting Watson.

At least three of those guys are fringe, and x factor like Kozzy and Watson, their height is near irrelevant.

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Just now, DeeZone said:

Agree Dee-tox we need a Tom Greene and Dursma type midfielders to complement our mosquito fleet, and I want one added each year until we balance up our team.!!!

But we don't have a mosquito fleet in the midfield. We have powerful sizeable midfielders, who smashed the same GWS midfield you're lauding, only 10 weeks ago.

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They are all under 6’ BPA I want a bit more taller silk in the side who can mark, kick run shepherd and provide marking targets, not much when you think about it.!!

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