POSTGAME: Rd 13 vs Collingwood

[NeveroddoreveN 1,034]

1 hour ago, Deecisive said:

Ah her parents must be so proud!

Pretty sure that is the old man beside her....Finger raised of course!

[Demonstone 19,582]

3 minutes ago, whatwhat say what said:

literally nothing to it - it's a write of his post-game interview with one of the radio stations where he says 'nothing in the convo; what's said on the field stays on the field'

Sheesh, is that all?  What a misleading headline.

[DeeZone 7,907]

What a great day to be at the G arrived early to soak up the atmosphere rugged up for a cold June day blue sky sun shining through jackets coming off in droves. Big Freeze entertaining, ground looked pristine, pie was hot, crowd was building nicely bit  of crowd noise, all the regulars were seated around us a bit like an odd family, feeling anxious and edgy. Siren goes we are off the roller coaster continued to gather speed as we began to dominate the game without putting them way, exhilarating we were so good in every way but score board pressure, the Pies crowd were subdued because they knew as we knew we were the better side today. When they Booed Grundy we all clapped and cheered like our lives depended on it and when the final siren sounded we all erupted like mad things clapping and singing our lungs out. Two huge crowds this year and we have won them both. Our team stood up, some brilliantly but all assisted and stuck to the game plan, well done Players, Coaches, Demon Army the Big Freeze No.9 and the wonderful brilliant Melbourne Supporters you all did us proud.❤️💙!!

[loges 6,218]

Flying back to Canberra today with a big smile on my face. My3rd interstate  trip for 2 wins and 1 loss been going to post before but mostly been covered by others. Just some observations, Smith and Tomlinson, who would have thought. Judd McVee, don't think he'll finish his career playing in defence such a smooth mover,, looks like he's been playing for 10 years. Know Ill probably be in the minority but thought the umpiring was ok, certainly better than what we'd copped the past few weeks. Just had issue with that last in the back which they hadn't paid all day, gave them a sniff when they had none.

[binman 39,044]

2 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

I actually didn't think we started that slowly. Some poor skill errors (notably from Hunter and Brayshaw x2 each) and not taking our opportunities in front of goal while they did meant it was 3 goals to 1 their way but I thought we still had the game on our terms. Just have to nail those chances when we get them.

My take too.

I felt like we were bit nervous and perhaps too wound up.

We gifted them those first three goals as all were from turnovers that were a result of missing targets under not much pressure. 

But around those goals we were winning territitory and stuffed up a few potential scoring chains with some poor skill execution that should have resulted in us scoring.

A good example is the Gus handball behind Grundy as he was streaming through the corridor.  If we nail that play we are inside 50. Instead it goes deep inside their 50 (did they score off that turnover? If so that is a potential 12 point swing)

[old55 21,563]

21 minutes ago, Macca said:

Brayshaw is miles ahead of Harmes & Jordon. There's a huge gap

lf we were point out all the errors made by all our players, the argument would make more sense

Not running hard to create a contest is one such error that happens countless times during a game by many of our players

But Brayshaw's biggest asset is he continually gets to contests ... and he does that better than many of our players

His actual disposal numbers are quite high considering his role as a trouble shooter/utility

And his DE% sitting above 80 all season is fantastic

He is going to surprise many here with his B & F finish.  He's played well season but his errors are the only thing talked about

Petracca went at 50% DE yesterday ... so half of his possessions were inefficient (half) ... but to me that's not an issue either

The consistent & fair argument would be to point out all the errors made by all our players

And that includes not getting to enough contests, 2nd to the ball, not playing in front, not spoiling well, not running to position etc etc.  In 4 games this season we failed in most of those areas

But Brayshaw does all of the above well with the odd errant kick thrown in

I'm not sure why you continually rely on DE% when it's been discredited.

[Gawndy the Great 7,669]

Not sure if this has been picked up in the prior 24 pages, but some of our inside 50 delivery - particularly to corridor area 40-55m out from goal were really silly. Collingwood were able to out number and win the ball back then rebound with their handball game into our F50. We were able to stop them most of the time and when we did it did more or less result in a score but it is a dangerous game allowing them to that - it is their 1 wood and they are very very good at it. 

We have to be more intelligent with our F50 entry and I'm not saying kick to the boundary, but if we are going to kick into that zone, we really need to try to be better with our structure. Having Kozzy and Chin ready for the ground ball get or F50 tackle is paramount while ANB, Spargs need to block the lateral exit and our midfield need to create that defensive wall.

Port are very good at this and i think if those two teams were to play each other at full strength and best form, Port's game is more reliable. Doesnt guarantee them a win, but it really stagnates Collingswood game plan and that is how you beat them.

Edited June 13, 2023 by Gawndy the Great

[Fritta and Turner 3,811]

Read the small paper today.  Apparently Collingwood lost to someone yesterday. (Wont ever play that badly again)

[leave it to deever 16,081]

Just watched the replay.

That was like a final. Hopefully a precursor of what's to come.

Edited June 13, 2023 by leave it to deever

[Macca 16,173]

6 minutes ago, old55 said:

I'm not sure why you continually rely on DE% when it's been discredited.

By who?

Discredited by those who think that a 70% DE is a fail?  70% is actually decent especially for those in traffic

Used properly it's a good stat

After a couple of early errors Brayshaw was impeccable with his ball use

Those who can't see that are not watching the game closely enough

And Brayshaw's excellent ball use is never highlighted, only his errors

[binman 39,044]

1 hour ago, Cranky Franky said:

I don't often agree with Binman but he's spot on here.  DeeSpencer's analysis is pretty much clueless.

Points for the double sledge. Impressive in only 17 words.

Bonus points towards the time-honored annual DL troll award - the Olisik - for the excellent use of the underrated backhanded compliment technique. 

It's a crowded leader board Cranky, but you're in with good shot of winning this year's Olisik if you can stay focused.

[mauriesy 6,845]

17 minutes ago, old55 said:

I'm not sure why you continually rely on DE% when it's been discredited.

I wouldn't take too much notice of DE% between, say, 60 and 80. But if one player is on 90% and another on 30%, it either says something about different roles (e.g. outside v extractor), or that one really is a poor disposer.

[binman 39,044]

3 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Kossie needs to lift but similar to last week against Saad I feel he was playing a more defensive forward role on Noble who often drives the Pies off half back. Don't forget Kossie is (or was before this weekend) #1 in the comp for tackles inside 50 so he's still doing some things right. Just has to get the mistined speccies out of his game and nail his set shots, if he kicks the 2 regulation ones yesterday I think people are seeing his game a bit differently.

He was also our fourth highest player for individual pressure points:

(Weighed sum of pressure acts. Physical pressure acts are worth 3.75 points, closing acts are worth 2.25 points, chasing acts are 1.5 points and corralling are 1.2. https://www.championdata.com/glossary/afl/)

Petracca: 74
Viney: 65
Neal-Bullen: 59
Pickett: 43
Sparrow: 40
Chandler: 40
Langdon: 40
van Rooyen: 37
Brayshaw: 33

[layzie 29,551]

2 minutes ago, mauriesy said:

I wouldn't take too much notice of DE% between, say, 60 and 80. But if one player is on 90% and another on 30%, it either says something about different roles (e.g. outside v extractor), or that one really is a poor disposer.

Hitting targets regularly in defensive 50 shows good composure though. 

[kev martin 9,323]

Does anyone know how long the break for the bye will be and how they plan to use it?

[Binmans PA 26,426]

44 minutes ago, Cranky Franky said:

When someone suggests that Salem is not an elite kick then yes that's clueless.

I'd argue Salem is an elite kick, but it's a bit of an eye test sort of argument. It's not like saying someone like Clarry is a contested ball gun, because statistically, he just is.

So it comes down to opinion. I disagree with DS on this point FWIW.

44 minutes ago, Macca said:

Brayshaw is miles ahead of Harmes & Jordon. There's a huge gap

lf we were point out all the errors made by all our players, the argument would make more sense

Not running hard to create a contest is one such error that happens countless times during a game by many of our players

But Brayshaw's biggest asset is he continually gets to contests ... and he does that better than many of our players

His actual disposal numbers are quite high considering his role as a trouble shooter/utility

And his DE% sitting above 80 all season is fantastic

He is going to surprise many here with his B & F finish.  He's played well season but his errors are the only thing talked about

Petracca went at 50% DE yesterday ... so half of his possessions were inefficient (half) ... but to me that's not an issue either

The consistent & fair argument would be to point out all the errors made by all our players

And that includes not getting to enough contests, 2nd to the ball, not playing in front, not spoiling well, not running to position etc etc.  In 4 games this season we failed in most of those areas

But Brayshaw does all of the above well with the odd errant kick thrown in

You seem to think this is about mere errors from Gus. My point was we have better players who are specialists in their roles and when they're all fit, I wondered where Gus would fit. 

We now have two specialist wingmen in Langdon and Hunter, so ideally Gus isn't needed to plug a wing role there.

We have Tomlinson, May and Lever as the defensive talls, with Hibberd, McVee, Salem and Rivers/Bowey playing medium and small, and providing (in Salem, McVee and Bowey) elite disposal and speed off half back/getting back in defensive transition. That's 7-8 players. There's no room back there without injury.

Our midfield with Clarry back has Clarry, Petracca, Viney, Sparrow, with stints from Rivers, ideally Kozzy and we probably have room for one more mid if Bowey or Spargo don't play. Given Gus' versatility, strength, contest work and ability to read the play, as @old55 says, he'll be ahead of JJ and Harmes. So that's probably his spot. But at full strength, I think he's closer to the fringe than many people think.

His cultural contribution will probably see him play whatever though.

[Jaded No More 58,833]

1 minute ago, kev martin said:

Does anyone know how long the break for the bye will be and how they plan to use it?

Goody said post match they have 4 days off then back to it.

Our players really got the rough end of the stick again with this pseudo bye. 

Why couldn't we play Geelong on Saturday night FFS?

[forever demons 1,876]

1 hour ago, Webber said:

Yep, sub-standard umpiring. AGAIN. To that point, there were 2 other shocking non-calls that would have been easy shots on goal for us. End of the 2nd, Murphy tackled running away from goal, ran 5+ metres in the tackle, both arms free, dropped the ball, and the call …. ball up. Latter half of 3rd, Markov tackled, only 1 arm pinned, was spun TWICE!!! fully around, dropped to the ground…..ball up. Unfortunately, the reason they weren’t called was from outright fear of the Collingwood crowd reprisal. Call it the flipside of ‘noise of affirmation’. If umpires were full time, they might be able to coach this fear avoidance out of them. (I’m wild with frustration just thinking about them now). 

I really think if a bloke with the ball is spun around 360 degrees that must be holding the ball, but is never paid

[Binmans PA 26,426]

 

4 minutes ago, Jaded No More said:

Goody said post match they have 4 days off then back to it.

Our players really got the rough end of the stick again with this pseudo bye. 

Why couldn't we play Geelong on Saturday night FFS?

At the MCG, I'd suggest they'd probably get a bigger gate than down there too.

[Jaded No More 58,833]

1 minute ago, A F said:

 

At the MCG, I'd suggest they'd probably get a bigger gate than down there too.

Don't even get me started on the farce that is our continued forced trip down to that dumpville of a ground.

A combined membership of over 130,000 members, but certainly lets play this game at a ground with a current capacity of 6. 

[Macca 16,173]

11 minutes ago, A F said:

I'd argue Salem is an elite kick, but it's a bit of an eye test sort of argument. It's not like saying someone like Clarry is a contested ball gun, because statistically, he just is.

So it comes down to opinion. I disagree with DS on this point FWIW.

You seem to think this is about mere errors from Gus. My point was we have better players who are specialists in their roles and when they're all fit, I wondered where Gus would fit. 

We now have two specialist wingmen in Langdon and Hunter, so ideally Gus isn't needed to plug a wing role there.

We have Tomlinson, May and Lever as the defensive talls, with Hibberd, McVee, Salem and Rivers/Bowey playing medium and small, and providing (in Salem, McVee and Bowey) elite disposal and speed off half back/getting back in defensive transition. That's 7-8 players. There's no room back there without injury.

Our midfield with Clarry back has Clarry, Petracca, Viney, Sparrow, with stints from Rivers, ideally Kozzy and we probably have room for one more mid if Bowey or Spargo don't play. Given Gus' versatility, strength, contest work and ability to read the play, as @old55 says, he'll be ahead of JJ and Harmes. So that's probably his spot. But at full strength, I think he's closer to the fringe than many people think.

His cultural contribution will probably see him play whatever though.

I disagree on Brayshaw

I see him as one of the first picked and I don't play favourites (nor do I ever have anyone in the gun)

After a couple of errors early Brayshaw's disposal levels (in traffic) was impeccable

He got it 24 times too so at 83% DE that means he was only inneficient 4 times

That's elite cinsidering he was in traffic a lot of the time

Petracca went at 50% out of traffic

So who used the ball better overall out of those 2?  And where's the critical analysis of Petracca?

To the eye Tomlinson used the ball well with his 15 possesions ... DE rating of 93% so there's the confirmation

To be fair, you have to be fair so no cherry picking AF

Highlighting mistakes is one thing but not acknowledging good play is disingenuous

Edited June 13, 2023 by Macca

[alpha33 277]

I’m a fan of Titus O’Reily and here’s what he has to say about the game:-

Melbourne v Collingwood

If you didn’t have a tear in your eye when Neale Daniher walked off the ground with a guard of honour, you are probably a sociopath.

The Big Freeze was once again a highlight of the footy calendar, but the guard of honour was something else.

And the game lived up to the moment too, with a match that was never in doubt for the Dees, except for all the times it was.

Which was a lot.

The Pies are top of the table for a reason, they are a phenomenal side and this loss, while disappointing, will not be season-defining.

For the Dees it was. They haven’t been at the top of their game since their winning streak at the start of last season.

To end the Pies’ winning streak was always going to be difficult, but Simon Goodwin had a master plan.

What if instead of kicking more goals than Collingwood, a ploy they would see coming, Melbourne drowns them in points?

It proved Goodwin was playing 4D chess.

Like a bad Uber driver, the Melbourne Football Club took the longest route possible to get to their destination. It was frustrating, and unnecessarily stressful, but they did get there in the end.

The key for the Dees, was their effort and their control. They stopped Collingwood doing what they wanted to do, like a chaperone at a school social.

With the Pies not able to get their run game going, the Dees defence was able to time and again set up behind the ball stop most attacks.

That was until the last two minutes, two of the most stressful moments of my life, and I saw Aliens when I was eight.

In the end the Dees hung on for a victory that shows they’ve still got it.

Now to find it regularly. And kick straight.

[leave it to deever 16,081]

Fair dinkum. There were 3 blatant holding the ball non calls made. On each of those occasions the Pies player had the ball for an eternity. If the umpires really want to stop dangerous tackles then these htbs should be called to avoid the chance of a player finally slinging someone out of frustration. 

[Cheap Seats 3,303]

Oliver - surplus asset? Haha take a bow jack.

Great win. I think our midfield is more balanced. Id like to see JJ get more game time

[binman 39,044]

11 minutes ago, Jaded No More said:

Goody said post match they have 4 days off then back to it.

Our players really got the rough end of the stick again with this pseudo bye. 

Why couldn't we play Geelong on Saturday night FFS?

I saw Viney interviwed post game and he wa sasked about the break.

Said they have four days off, but had a curious expression which suggested to me that they maybe the players are not thrilled only having four days off. 

In the Mcrae presser he was asked the same question and he said their players would have the week off and back fresh next Monday.

That sounded a better break than we have. But when i thought about it, it is the same as us.

That's to say the dees players get the rest of this working week off (four days), have their weekend and back on deck next Monday like the Pies. 

So a six day break away from the club for both teams (inclusive of the weekend). 

The difference is our players come back from their break and play three days later! 

The Pies don't play their post match bye game until three days later than us with a game at the G against the Crows on the Sunday.

Meaning the Pies get a 13 day break between their pre and post bye games, compared to our 9 days.  

After our cats game, we then have another nine day break into the Giants game in the Alice.

Must make planning their prep and training super tricky.