Grand Final Violence and the Rules in Finals in general.

[dieter 3,325]

We arrived in Australia in July 1956. My father was athletically gifted. He played 'football' and the highlight of his 'fussball' career was when, in front of King Farouk, the German POW inmates at Port Said challenged their English Prison Guards and beat them comprehensively.

By 1959, partly because we lived opposite Selwyn Park, then the home of the Sunshine VFA team, and the Sunshine Sub Cricket team, the winter football/summer cricket tradition crept into our bloodstream and my father used to join us when we played our Test Matches, and the long hours doodling away time with kick to kick. I recall he developed into a good one grab marker and I also recall that after the age of 40, his coordination slowly drifted north, south, east, and west, in much the same way that my once strong throwing arm turned into a noodle in my forties, a huge embarrassment for the once legendary boundary guard of the Sunshine Cricket Club, returns over the stumps guaranteed.

My father followed Essendon because his father came from Essen, and we went to many VFL games together.

On a train journey home from Windy Hill one time, he said it always puzzled him that a played was pinged for a push in the back, for example, but to dig a knee into an opponent's back while marking was a okay. He said in soccer, to an opponent's body was sacred, that you didn't push, shove or jump into him.

Which brings me to an issue I have been brewing on since the 2000 Grand Final. Melbourne supporters will recall the sheer brutality to which Melbourne players were subjected. I'm sure I don't have to enumerate the atrocities committed by the likes of Hardwick, Wallis and Long. That Melbourne caved in without a whimper is now history.

I have also noted that not only is there a set of Rules by which players and umpires must abide by during a season, but also that once finals come around, the idea of rules succumbs to the notion of 'letting play go on'. That also applies to any violence, in other words, a player will get a week or two for donging a player during the season, but you can dong away and get away with it because, after all, it's a Final.

( It reminds me of how the Catholic Church once had its 'Universal' 10 Commandments, plus what they called The Commandments of the Church. One of those sins against the Church Commandments was to do with eating meat on Friday. Now, say, I ate a meat pie on a Friday and choked on the gristle, if I couldn't see a priest to confess my sin before I died, I'd go straight to hell. The Commandment was rescinded  in about 1964 or 1965, and I recall my mirth when it occurred to me that if I choked on a pie last week, it meant hell - not a pleasant proposition in my eyes because I presumed that the bastards called nuns and priests were heading to the same place - but if I choked from here on in, hey, no problem, it's off to heaven with Sister Patrick and Archbishop Bell, or whoever.)

During the past week I've heard ex-players like Mat Lloyd declaring that in tomorrow's Grand Final, both sides need to target certain players with extra physical attention, implying, to my understanding, that because it's a Grand Final, not only does anything go, but its to be condoned and expected. In other words, because 'it's a Grand Final' all is fair because it's war. I know this was once simply accepted and acceptable - witness the brutality of most 20th Century Grand Finals, indeed, the Grand Finals Matthews and Hardwick have coached in the 20th Century, and Clarkson, and Scott, for that matter.

All I can say, is I don't get it, and my way of understanding it is to do with 'Cultural' proclivities, in other words, it's connected to that Colonial mindset where anything that comes between you and your goals is game for pure and simple obliteration.

What I'd like to see tomorrow is a game where both sides test each other's skills, where sportsmanship and respect rules. I'd like to see it as a sport, not as a war where blood needs to be spilled. 

Edited September 24, 2021 by dieter

[DeeDJ 56]

I think tomorrows game will be exactly what you hope to see. Both sides play with skill and run, and whilst it will be a hard tackling game, I don't think either side has the type of player likely to go too far out of the style of play, so I don't think there will be any intimidation/old style brutality going on at all. Luckily those days are gone.

 

[Sir Why You Little 35,170]

Be prepared for anything 

It’s a Grand Final

Leave everything out there

[Mazer Rackham 14,970]

Forgive me for missing the point completely, but what I got from the OP is that Germans can be Catholics.

[picket fence 15,683]

18 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Be prepared for anything 

It’s a Grand Final

Leave everything out there

Its our BEST Chance ever! Not for one minute advocating thuggery, but it is a Grand Final and therefore if someone gets a chance to exert ultimate physicality, then go for it!

[Sir Why You Little 35,170]

2 minutes ago, picket fence said:

Its our BEST Chance ever! Not for one minute advocating thuggery, but it is a Grand Final and therefore if someone gets a chance to exert ultimate physicality, then go for it!

BANG!!!!

[dieter 3,325]

17 minutes ago, Mazer Rackham said:

Forgive me for missing the point completely, but what I got from the OP is that Germans can be Catholics.

And great cricketers: you weren't paying attention. The pervious Pope was even a German. Don't you worry, even Germans can be sucked in by Catholic propaganda. And, always keep in mind, that the great Martin Luther was once a Catholic Priest. So there!

Edited September 24, 2021 by dieter

[picket fence 15,683]

2 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

BANG!!!!

Byron Picket says Hi🤩

[dieter 3,325]

Just now, picket fence said:

Byron Picket says Hi🤩

Tell him, Hi from me. Long time no see. The last time I saw him was when Melbourne played Richmond on a Friday night game. He was with my other hero, Aaron Davey They were exiting the Gaming room of the Ross Town Hotel presumably on their way to the game: it was about 5PM.  I was about to conduct a Wine Tasting at the fabled Ross Hotel Bottle shop.

[TRIGON 4,719]

35 minutes ago, DeeDJ said:

I think tomorrows game will be exactly what you hope to see. Both sides play with skill and run, and whilst it will be a hard tackling game, I don't think either side has the type of player likely to go too far out of the style of play, so I don't think there will be any intimidation/old style brutality going on at all. Luckily those days are gone.

 

I'd like to think that @DeeDJ is right in that we've moved on from the pi$$weak thuggery of yesteryear. There's courage enough in attacking the ball with 100% commitment.

[leave it to deever 16,439]

These threads are getting more obscure than mosts of my posts.

I do enjoy fish and chips.

Edited September 24, 2021 by leave it to deever

[Demonstone 19,792]

1 hour ago, dieter said:

a player will get a week or two for donging a player during the season, but you can dong away and get away with it because, after all, it's a Final.

Players still get suspended for "donging" an opponent in a Final and, if I am not mistaken, the AFL is so keen to stamp out this tactic that penalties are increased for suspensions incurred during a Grand Final.

[dieter 3,325]

6 minutes ago, Demonstone said:

Players still get suspended for "donging" an opponent in a Final and, if I am not mistaken, the AFL is so keen to stamp out this tactic that penalties are increased for suspensions incurred during a Grand Final.

You may be right, I may be wrong, it just might be a lunatic you're looking for, as the song goes.

I recall a few Richmond incidents recently, Crotchin, comes to mind...

My concern about the  'donging' - a term used by Father Briffa, who simple said, Dong that child, and pointed to the dongee. The kid who sat behind the dongee was supposed to clench his fist and rap it over the back of said dongee's skull. I always sat at the very back during this pig's class - is that Lloyd, Johnathon Brown, Jordan Lewis, Roughhead and Riewoldt on programs aired the week either urged that certain players be targeted, or reminisced about how, for example, it was okay to belt the crap out of their mate Franklin during the Swans Hawks Grand Final, because, well, it was a Grand Final.

Edited September 24, 2021 by dieter

[Little Goffy 12,836]

1 hour ago, dieter said:

And great cricketers: you weren't paying attention. The pervious Pope was even a German. Don't you worry, even Germans can be sucked in by Catholic propaganda. And, always keep in mind, that the great Martin Luther was once a Catholic Priest. So there!

Best typo ever.

"Pope Pervious IV, known for launching the crusade against those little holes in public toilets."

But returning to the point...

I feel reasonably confident that the Demons are walking the right side of the line in that they won't be soft and certainly won't allow themselves to be dominated, but aren't going to go out looking to inflict any thuggery. Besides, from either team it would be quite confected and against the usual style so the mental switch would be counter-productive.

[dieter 3,325]

1 minute ago, Little Goffy said:

Best typo ever.

"Pope Pervious IV, known for launching the crusade against those little holes in public toilets."

But returning to the point...

I feel reasonably confident that the Demons are walking the right side of the line in that they won't be soft and certainly won't allow themselves to be dominated, but aren't going to go out looking to inflict any thuggery. Besides, from either team it would be quite confected and against the usual style so the mental switch would be counter-productive.

Pun was intended, same with Archbishop Bell...

[Deemania since 56 6,280]

1 hour ago, dieter said:

Tell him, Hi from me. Long time no see. The last time I saw him was when Melbourne played Richmond on a Friday night game. He was with my other hero, Aaron Davey They were exiting the Gaming room of the Ross Town Hotel presumably on their way to the game: it was about 5PM.  I was about to conduct a Wine Tasting at the fabled Ross Hotel Bottle shop.

The Rostown pub in Carnegi? Great place, once.

 

[deespicable me 1,437]

I think Cordy for the dogs will try to be physical and may cross the line, mainly because he has pretty limited skills and to offer something to the team cause may be best served by injuring as many opponents as possible, but the danger of going out there to try and target players has more chance of backfiring than being successful.

In my mind we are the better side with a dominant big man in Max so when he goes forward or back they will try to jump into his back and slow him down. Martin was on one leg by the end of the prelim and at 34 with a limited preparation they have to be worried. We are a very clean side with some physical beasts like Petracca, Viney, Harmes and now Sparrow who go for the ball with intent. 

This physical attack idea is a Beveridge mind game to try and get us off our game, because if we play our game we will win. Just play hard, fair footy and don't change what you've been doing. Don't feel intimidated and we are too good. They have to disrupt us someway to win and Beveridge will be trying every trick in the book because he knows we are the better side.

[dieter 3,325]

24 minutes ago, deespicable me said:

I think Cordy for the dogs will try to be physical and may cross the line, mainly because he has pretty limited skills and to offer something to the team cause may be best served by injuring as many opponents as possible, but the danger of going out there to try and target players has more chance of backfiring than being successful.

In my mind we are the better side with a dominant big man in Max so when he goes forward or back they will try to jump into his back and slow him down. Martin was on one leg by the end of the prelim and at 34 with a limited preparation they have to be worried. We are a very clean side with some physical beasts like Petracca, Viney, Harmes and now Sparrow who go for the ball with intent. 

This physical attack idea is a Beveridge mind game to try and get us off our game, because if we play our game we will win. Just play hard, fair footy and don't change what you've been doing. Don't feel intimidated and we are too good. They have to disrupt us someway to win and Beveridge will be trying every trick in the book because he knows we are the better side.

I've loved and admired the way Gawn has reacted when, for example, Port Adelaide tried to blitz him with the rough stuff, how he just stayed focused, didn't complain, just got on with it. I hope our boys do the same tomorrow. Go Dees, eat the Do Gees. ( Thank you, Mister Spooner.)

[Guest]

We play on our merits as Plan A. We should work on the premise that our best can beat theirs.

If they try to pull shenanigans on Max, the Bont gets bulldogged (pardon the pun) straight into the ground next time he gets tackled. 

Play fair if they do so as well. Retaliate if they don’t. Essendon would have beaten us if they had played clean in 2000, but because they physically monstered our blokes, they ensured they won by 10 goals. Our response made sure that match was non-competitive.

Edited September 24, 2021 by Colin B. Flaubert

[Biffen 12,450]

Alistair "Sleepy" Lynch was allowed to take steroids during his last season at the Lions then go psycho throwing hooks and uppercuts during the game. 

The exemption for steroid use was that he claimed to have CFS. What a crock.

There is a major flaw in the game-no sin bin.

[faultydet 7,593]

3 hours ago, dieter said:

Tell him, Hi from me. Long time no see. The last time I saw him was when Melbourne played Richmond on a Friday night game. He was with my other hero, Aaron Davey They were exiting the Gaming room of the Ross Town Hotel presumably on their way to the game: it was about 5PM.  I was about to conduct a Wine Tasting at the fabled Ross Hotel Bottle shop.

Yeah, me and my mates used to do that as young'uns also. Had great fun.

Today the fuddy duddies call it shoplifting.

[layzie 30,051]

The one thing I cannot cop tomorrow night is being intimidated physically. 2000 has never sat well and I'm sick of moments where for whatever reason we didn't back guys up. We must not let them walk over us.

[Dr. Gonzo 22,688]

Just win

Edited September 24, 2021 by Dr. Gonzo

[Grr-owl 1,082]

10 hours ago, dieter said:

And great cricketers: you weren't paying attention. The pervious Pope was even a German. Don't you worry, even Germans can be sucked in by Catholic propaganda. And, always keep in mind, that the great Martin Luther was once a Catholic Priest. So there!

delete

Edited September 24, 2021 by Grr-owl

[Grr-owl 1,082]

7 hours ago, Colin B. Flaubert said:

We play on our merits as Plan A. We should work on the premise that our best can beat theirs.

If they try to pull shenanigans on Max, the Bont gets bulldogged (pardon the pun) straight into the ground next time he gets tackled. 

Play fair if they do so as well. Retaliate if they don’t. Essendon would have beaten us if they had played clean in 2000, but because they physically monstered our blokes, they ensured they won by 10 goals. Our response made sure that match was non-competitive.

I was about to type the same thing re Max and Bont. Surely the only reason Martin plays is to get physical with Max...