Weideman did one good thing today and it created a goal.

That was basically it for four quarters. Overall it was just plain bad.

I am very patient with players in general and have a lot of sympathy for poor Serious Sam, but he can't be at AFL level right now and if something doesn't significantly change then he needs a new club at end of season.

2 hours ago, loges said:

If you think he is ever pushing TMac out of the side you are dead set kidding yourself.

did half of us ever think tmac was going to have the revival he did no, ffs tmac wasn't even playing forward when he was the age weid is now. so u can dead set kid yaself elsewhereif you're writing him off as a footballer right now. theres plenty of season left and plenty of footy ahead of weid too

The bloke was completely lost. I kept looking for him inside 50. He was in no man’s land and barely led out. Always in the wrong spot and when in the right spot, he drops his marks. Add to fact that in other games when he gets shots on goals, he is nothing short of horrible from a set shot. It’s a bust! We went out and chased a KPF, as we knew it was our deficiency. Play the recruit. 

I hate saying this, he may well become a decent footballer but it’s very possible it won’t be with us. There are occasions that for whatever reason a player can’t seem to find his mojo at one club but change of scenery and change of message brings something new to them. 

I’m not writing him off but [censored] me he can’t stay in the team after that disgraceful performance. 

4 hours ago, Kick_It_To_Pickett said:

The bloke was completely lost. I kept looking for him inside 50. He was in no man’s land and barely led out. Always in the wrong spot and when in the right spot, he drops his marks. Add to fact that in other games when he gets shots on goals, he is nothing short of horrible from a set shot. It’s a bust! We went out and chased a KPF, as we knew it was our deficiency. Play the recruit. 

Not only was he lost and basically nowhere near the footy, but when he was near it, I hardly sensed any despiration from him to get his hands on the pill and do something with it.  That's pretty basic stuff for a footballer and KPF 101.  At very few occations in Weid's career with us as a player have I sensed him having that basic want, compeditiveness and despiration for the footy that is such a requirement of a key forward.  Show some bloody mongrel FFS.

Potentially he had a wiff of it in finals 2018 and in patches last season, but asides from that he's really never impressed me much with that part of his game.  Confidence and playing to team structures only explains and excuses so much for me. 

Personally, I'm not quite ready to write the Weid off just yet, but the longer time goes on and he doesn't deliver, I really do wounder that a) if he wasn't pick 9, would we have invested so much in him and b) do we keep playing him, because we've invested so much in him over the years and don't know when to cut our losses.  He actually reminds me quite a bit of that Tim O'Brien that plays for Hawthorn - a player that shows some nice skillls and can do some nice stuff every now and then, but doesn't deliver on a regular or reliable enough basis to really live up to their expected potential.

Really hope he clicks sometime soon and proves some people wrong.

Edited June 14, 20213 yr by Rodney (Balls) Grinter

7 hours ago, OhMyDees said:

Shame we didn’t have Jason Taylor for the 2015 AFL Draft. 

Probably would have ended up with a better prospect…McKay, Rioli, Himmelberg, Hipwood or Menegola

Weideman may prove us wrong and all credit to him if he does this with us like TMac or at another club but if we keep playing him at the expense of BBB the we only have ourselves to blame.  

Year, but that Clarry bloke we recruited with pick 4 - I think he goes all right.

It's pretty hard, even with the best recruiters to get it right 100% of the time.

I'm also so very greatful that St Kilda picked McCatin at 1.

5 hours ago, Little Goffy said:

Weideman did one good thing today and it created a goal.

That was basically it for four quarters. Overall it was just plain bad.

I am very patient with players in general and have a lot of sympathy for poor Serious Sam, but he can't be at AFL level right now and if something doesn't significantly change then he needs a new club at end of season.

Williamstown 2nds maybe

8 hours ago, WERRIDEE said:

Let's hope clubs are circling because he is a spud.

...and how many non-performance games must we endure from the Weed until he gets the Casey practices blocks needed for his ever-hopeful improvement in form, desire, effort, onfield ingenuity, mongrel, development, (better stop there!) The whole team almost by-passes him - he must be regarded as a waste of delivery effort.

 

Over the decades I've made the mistake of continually hoping our young players can make the grade. I never learn my lesson. Tapscott, Gysberts, Chris Johnson, Blease, etc. all played games where you thought: he'll make it! But they couldn't do it regularly and in the end you're left disappointed. 

Weed is one of those. He's in his sixth season and has only played a handful of games that have been anywhere near the required level. I think he's too nice and perhaps been a touch spoilt in his junior career.

He will probably be another tease and based on what I've seen in six years I think we cut our losses. Who knows we might get a second rounder for him.

 

I reckon the selection of BB over Weid after their injury spell was the final straw.

Sam is the most extreme case of a confidence player I have ever seen

He is not alone at the moment though, we had many players down last night and there’s been quite a few just going for a number of weeks now

Edited June 14, 20213 yr by BW511

To me the BBB vs Weid comparison at VFL level performance somewhat distorts the picture.  I think it's far more representative to look at their respective performances at senior level.

Weid: 5 games, 3 goals.  Drops marks all over the shop, doesn't get to the right places and sprays his set shots.  Limited track record of producing it at the top level.

BBB: 3 games, 5 goals.  Doesn't look 100% with the pace of the game or to have found chemistry within the team, but still holds marks and gets to the right spots.  Hardly looks like missing a set shot with signature cartoon style 100m run-up and set shot routine.  During the 2017, 2018 and 2019 home and away seasons Brown finished 3rd, 2nd and 2nd in the Coleman medal and kicked a combined total of 188 goals across 66 games, the most of any player in the AFL over that time period.  Best individual effort in a game 10 goals.

 

I known some of his VFL form has been underwhelming, but there are some players that don't perform as well at VFL level, compared to the seniors and perhaps BBB is one of those.  If there is a player we would want to be getting right and embedding into the team over the back half of the season for a serious run at finals the pointy end of the season it's BBB.

The FD have talked him up in an effort to build his confidence I reckon but he’s a shell at the moment. Comparisons to Tredrea are way off the mark. Serves no useful purpose keeping him in the team when he’s this short of belief. A stint with Casey might help but at this stage it’s not looking good long term. Yesterday was the lowest point. Offered nothing. I’ve been a believer but there’s only so long you can wait.

We need to invest our time in BB and hope he comes right for the second half of the season

8 minutes ago, Rodney (Balls) Grinter said:

To me the BBB vs Weid comparison at VFL level performance somewhat distorts the picture.  I think it's far more representative to look at their respective performances at senior level.

Weid: 5 games, 3 goals.  Drops marks all over the shop, doesn't get to the right places and sprays his set shots.  Limited track record of producing it at the top level.

BBB: 3 games, 5 goals.  Doesn't look 100% with the pace of the game or to have found chemistry within the team, but still holds marks and gets to the right spots.  Hardly looks like missing a set shot with signature cartoon style 100m run-up and set shot routine.  During the 2017, 2018 and 2019 home and away seasons Brown finished 3rd, 2nd and 2nd in the Coleman medal and kicked a combined total of 188 goals across 66 games, the most of any player in the AFL over that time period.  Best individual effort in a game 10 goals.

 

I known some of his VFL form has been underwhelming, but there are some players that don't perform as well at VFL level, compared to the seniors and perhaps BBB is one of those.  If there is a player we would want to be getting right and embedding into the team over the back half of the season for a serious run at finals the pointy end of the season it's BBB.

Could not have said it better! 

VFL is a dead competition in Victoria so it’s very hard for players to prove themselves at that level and push for selection or develop their skills. 

Even Casey game at Marvel against the Kangas - Weids was missing easy shots on goal 30 odd out and low pressure inside 50.

We know BBB doesn’t have the same forward pressures like your TMacs, Spargos and Nibblers but even he did some great tackles inside 50 in the games he played for us in the firsts.

I hope that TMac and Ben Brown have an opportunity to gel together like Hawkins and Cameron for the Cats. 

Time for the Weid Hail Mary. Chuck him down back in the VFL and see if he can have a Liam Jones/Darcy Moore transformation 

It's time

Weideman - Omitted
Brown - IN

Edited June 14, 20213 yr by Fork 'em

8 hours ago, Turner said:

did half of us ever think tmac was going to have the revival he did no, ffs tmac wasn't even playing forward when he was the age weid is now. so u can dead set kid yaself elsewhereif you're writing him off as a footballer right now. theres plenty of season left and plenty of footy ahead of weid too

Seen enough, won't make it !!!!!

2 hours ago, dee-tox said:

Over the decades I've made the mistake of continually hoping our young players can make the grade. I never learn my lesson. Tapscott, Gysberts, Chris Johnson, Blease, etc. all played games where you thought: he'll make it! But they couldn't do it regularly and in the end you're left disappointed. 

Weed is one of those. He's in his sixth season and has only played a handful of games that have been anywhere near the required level. I think he's too nice and perhaps been a touch spoilt in his junior career.

He will probably be another tease and based on what I've seen in six years I think we cut our losses. Who knows we might get a second rounder for him.

 

Don’t forget a few of our other first rounder fails at the National Draft…

Cale Morton (Pick 4 - 2007)

Lucas Cook (Pick 12 - 2010) 

Jimmy Toumpas (Pick 4 - 2012)

Happy to admit I was wrong about SW.

Pathetic effort. Drop immediately for BB regardless of Casey form. Hope Sam gets traded  

I think what's concerning for Sam is that the players clearly lost/no trust in him as a playet.

There was multiple times yesterday where Sam was one out on with Moore in the deep 50 and we just didn't want to go the long option. Instead players would rather go for that 1 too many handball, or go the wider option instead.

2 examples;

Gawn gets a free kick just outside 50, and Weideman is deep inside the square with Collingwood defender by his side. Gawn holds the footy up and instead goes a wide option to Pickett who literally has 3 Collingwood opponents on him.

The other one was McDonald running into goal and having Weideman all by himself for the quick handball over the top for a certain goal,  yet McDonald refused to do the team thing and instead went for the shot. 

 

Edited June 14, 20213 yr by dazzledavey36

Some key metrics (averages) to compare B Brown's three game stint against Weideman's five game stint:

• Disposals: B Brown 8.3, Weideman 8.0
• Marks: B Brown 3.3, Weideman 3.2
• Contested marks: B Brown 1.0, Weideman 1.0
• Goals: B Brown 1.7, Weideman 0.6
• Shots on goal: B Brown 3.0, Weideman 2.0
• Goal accuracy: B Brown 55.6%, Weideman, 30%
• Score involvements: B Brown 4.3, Weideman 3.2
• Goal assists: B Brown 0.3, Weideman 0.4
• Tackles: B Brown 0.7, Weideman 1.8
• Tackles inside 50: B Brown 0.7, Weideman 0.4
• Pressure acts: B Brown 5.3, Weideman 6.2
• Forward half pressure acts: B Brown 4.3, Weideman 3.4 

Bear in mind B Brown's games were against North, Sydney and Carlton, whereas Weideman's games have been against Carlton, Adelaide, Bulldogs, Brisbane and Collingwood.

IMO, the stats show that Weideman does more defensively but that's generally further up the ground (his pressure acts and tackles are higher than Brown's but not in the forward half or inside 50). Otherwise on all other metrics Brown did more in his time in the seniors than Weid has, and the critical one is that Brown's good for an entire goal a game more than Weid.

However, neither group of numbers sets the world on fire.

I think the other serious option in this is Mitch Brown. in the one game he played he performed strongly, i think offensively he offers more than Weid is currently, and defensively is a similar type of player. he may compliment our forward line better in the short term. 

However i think realistically in terms of winning the 2021 premiership, Ben Brown is the better player and potentially should be given a few weeks to see if we can make things click with him in there. 

13 minutes ago, titan_uranus said:

Some key metrics (averages) to compare B Brown's three game stint against Weideman's five game stint:

• Disposals: B Brown 8.3, Weideman 8.0
• Marks: B Brown 3.3, Weideman 3.2
• Contested marks: B Brown 1.0, Weideman 1.0
• Goals: B Brown 1.7, Weideman 0.6
• Shots on goal: B Brown 3.0, Weideman 2.0
• Goal accuracy: B Brown 55.6%, Weideman, 30%
• Score involvements: B Brown 4.3, Weideman 3.2
• Goal assists: B Brown 0.3, Weideman 0.4
• Tackles: B Brown 0.7, Weideman 1.8
• Tackles inside 50: B Brown 0.7, Weideman 0.4
• Pressure acts: B Brown 5.3, Weideman 6.2
• Forward half pressure acts: B Brown 4.3, Weideman 3.4 

Bear in mind B Brown's games were against North, Sydney and Carlton, whereas Weideman's games have been against Carlton, Adelaide, Bulldogs, Brisbane and Collingwood.

IMO, the stats show that Weideman does more defensively but that's generally further up the ground (his pressure acts and tackles are higher than Brown's but not in the forward half or inside 50). Otherwise on all other metrics Brown did more in his time in the seniors than Weid has, and the critical one is that Brown's good for an entire goal a game more than Weid.

However, neither group of numbers sets the world on fire.

As you say,  while those numbers don't exactly set the world on fire, it's slightly alarming in a way.

I think it's fair to say Supporters cannot question Goodwin for not giving Sam a fair go. Unfortunately for his sake he just simply hasn't grabbed his opportunity. 

Edited June 14, 20213 yr by dazzledavey36

It might be best for Sam and the club that he moves on. We get a second round pick in and hopefully find a young key forward to develop.

If he does move to Collingwood, the pressure is only going to increase

Stats are useful and all but I want my FF taking marks and kicking goals. Sam isn’t doing that. I’ve got more confidence BB will do so. 

 

9 minutes ago, titan_uranus said:

Some key metrics (averages) to compare B Brown's three game stint against Weideman's five game stint:

• Disposals: B Brown 8.3, Weideman 8.0
• Marks: B Brown 3.3, Weideman 3.2
• Contested marks: B Brown 1.0, Weideman 1.0
• Goals: B Brown 1.7, Weideman 0.6
• Shots on goal: B Brown 3.0, Weideman 2.0
• Goal accuracy: B Brown 55.6%, Weideman, 30%
• Score involvements: B Brown 4.3, Weideman 3.2
• Goal assists: B Brown 0.3, Weideman 0.4
• Tackles: B Brown 0.7, Weideman 1.8
• Tackles inside 50: B Brown 0.7, Weideman 0.4
• Pressure acts: B Brown 5.3, Weideman 6.2
• Forward half pressure acts: B Brown 4.3, Weideman 3.4 

Bear in mind B Brown's games were against North, Sydney and Carlton, whereas Weideman's games have been against Carlton, Adelaide, Bulldogs, Brisbane and Collingwood.

IMO, the stats show that Weideman does more defensively but that's generally further up the ground (his pressure acts and tackles are higher than Brown's but not in the forward half or inside 50). Otherwise on all other metrics Brown did more in his time in the seniors than Weid has, and the critical one is that Brown's good for an entire goal a game more than Weid.

However, neither group of numbers sets the world on fire.

Problem with Sam is he has never kicked more than 3 goals in a game and has only had more than 13 disposals once in his career. He just doesn't have the runs on the board after 49 chances.
Players the same age as him are performing so really theres no excuses anymore.
He is a great VFL Player who cannot perform on an oppositions best defender, Ben Brown can.
We are going for a flag this year so we can't wait for him to get his confidence or whatever he needs to perform.
He needs to perform this year, now.