POSTGAME: Rd 18 vs Hawthorn

[Half forward flank 1,022]

Listening to the commentators you would have thought the Hawks were the team who had been down and out for sixty years. I havent checked but did we not both last play finals at the same year. Are we not both trying to build lists to have success. Do we not also have a bunch of players with less than 30 games. Frankly to me being top means very little other than a double chance in the finals. 

[Demons11 7,002]

19 minutes ago, Luther said:

Oliver's decision making is regressing at a rate of knots and it's so painful to watch.

??‍♂️ The kid is a star and has had an enormous year. 1 off game and now he is regressing? 

[Lord Nev 13,512]

6 hours ago, Grr-owl said:

Interesting, Nev. What’s Max doing wrong, or Dogga right?

Would have to be either his hitout form is up and down, the centre group aren't all in sync or oppositions have worked him out. Could be a bit of all of the above too. He looked back to vintage Max last week with the hitouts so not sure what's happened.

Whatever it is though, just wish we'd stick with what is working for a bit longer in games.

[Rodney (Balls) Grinter 10,816]

I must admit, I found it a hilarious moment last night when Oliver seemed befuddled when Charlie Spargo got into Oliver's path and stole a mark from him 35 - 40m out from goal towards the boundary.  That's right in Spargo's goal kicking range and he been reasonably reliable kicking for goal this season from set shots, so long as it's not 40m + out. Conversely I don't think Oliver has actually kicked a set shot from any further out than 5m this season.  Unless he's kicking/snapping on the run, Oliver's goal kicking has been atrocious, must have kicked about 10 behinds from set shots, without kicking a major, so to see his body language when Spargo cut him off was such poor form on his behalf.  It actually reeked a bit of playing like a millionaires well before we had the game under control.

Oliver - don't want to be treated with contempt inside 50? Fix your set shot goal kicking.

That all said Oliver is pretty good at spotting up others to have shots on goal with his vision an good foot skills on occasions too, so I'm not going to be too harsh on him.

Edited July 18, 2021 by Rodney (Balls) Grinter

[Red But Mostly Blue 4,547]

I wonder why the #1 team continually has "learnings" playing bottom feeder teams? When will those learnings be implemented? I know we're not yet Cats/Hawks/Tigers of recent years (yet) (we could be, but we need to actually address these things). Do you remember them continually being taught lessons by #17??? I don't.

None of the learnings from our shock loss to the Crows were fixed. Hacking the ball forward, poor decision making and terrible goal kicking is just as prevalent as it was then. Are these things actually being looked at? I hate buzz words, because the boys then believe that saying there were "learnings" are part of the process, but they're not if you don't actually do anything about them.

Instead of a Gus and Gawny podcast, I'd love if they mic'd up and went to practice goalkicking. I'd listen to that. Or instead of one of the other promotional videos, they show footage of the boys lining up for goal after goal. Practicing skills. Etc.

Edited July 18, 2021 by Red But Mostly Blue

[Billy 2,529]

11 hours ago, Jaded said:

When you draw against the 17th team on the ladder playing infants while you are fighting it out for first, umpires are not the problem. 
Yes umpiring was putrid, but welcome to 2021. 
We have only ourselves to blame. We played lazy and our pressure was well down. We also fumbled badly and couldn’t win a ground ball. Tackling was non existent and we again blew easy shots on goal. This is what led to the result. Not poor umpiring.

Well said, the team should be blamed overall for lack of application mentally & physically (not just individuals)

Cant believe the abuse & criticism  on our best 2 players, if Oliver & Tracca didn’t play we would’ve lost by 5 goals 

Even criticism of Lever taking the wrong option with a minute to go, for god sake he’s held the backline together all season

We escaped with a draw, re-set, finish top4, game on 

[D4Life 2,469]

7 minutes ago, DeeZone said:

Although we lead for all but ten minutes of the game we never really turned it on all night and we had at least eight players that just weren’t up for the fight. Our game plan depends on every player playing their part and when they don’t we look poor/ dumb and our kicking for goal is just so poor that is two of our last three games where it has cost us six premiership points. I thought that umps were poor again, our goal kicking was very poor again and our bottom eight players were very ordinary.

100% correct, our game plan does rely on every player, playing their part or it can be picked apart, and last night there were plenty missing.

Our best is very solid and exceptionally hard to beat, but our blood y goal kicking is a nightmare. I have visions of losing to Geelong 10.22 to 14.4 or similar to the Dogs and them getting 3-4 soft free kick goals in the finals.

Demons just kicking reasonably for goal last night and we kick 14.10 and Hawks never in the game!

[Red But Mostly Blue 4,547]

3 minutes ago, D4Life said:

100% correct, our game plan does rely on every player, playing their part or it can be picked apart, and last night there were plenty missing.

Our best is very solid and exceptionally hard to beat, but our blood y goal kicking is a nightmare. I have visions of losing to Geelong 10.22 to 14.4 or similar to the Dogs and them getting 3-4 soft free kick goals in the finals.

Demons just kicking reasonably for goal last night and we kick 14.10 and Hawks never in the game!

Simple truths are the best. Goals win games. Until we learn that, we are exposed to teams like the Cats who are ruthless and take their chances.

[loges 6,767]

1 hour ago, Fork 'em said:

I wanted to turn it off 10mins into the last qr.
Could see the writing on the wall.
My only surprise is that we didn't actually lose it with 40seconds to go after the Hawthorn leveller.

As for learnings.
The players are parrots.
Brayshaw talked of learnings post game as well.
And with all the learnings over the years our parrots are obviously pretty thick.
 

 

Brayshaw seems to think we play the Bulldogs next week, or are we ?

[Smokey 4,389]

Not an ideal result, but here's some perspective for the doomsayers: 

• We are not in our prime now, we are coming into it. We are not going to be at our best every week. Our forward structure is still gelling
• 2 points is as good as 4 in the context of the season at this stage
• The only stat we lost was tackles
• We are on top of the ladder 
• We have beaten 7 out of 8 teams in the 8 right now. Anyone who says we are pretenders has a very low football IQ
• Bottom dwelling teams that have proven to bring us down to their level do not feature in September 
• Just because we are on top of the ladder doesn't mean supporters are entitled to a season where nothing goes wrong. You'd think after the years of mediocrity that people around here would be more mentally resilient, watching some of you throw your toys out of the cot after a loss is embarrassing. 

[Deemania since 56 6,633]

3 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

You did better than me I turned it off the second the siren went.

Me, too! Didn't even go to the post-match DL thread to see if everyone else was as irate, disappointed and inwardly hostile as I was since the start of the third quarter. It was a game where we could have won by possibly 40 points - and that is conservative.

Talk about keeping the Hawks in the game - talk about ignoring (pretending not to see) overt violations of the tackling, holding, throwing, dropping the ball rules! Under these circumstances, no matter how well we might have played, we would not win the match, once again. Even the Dees' players we tired of it and obviously, were losing interest in the win due to umpire decisions and tolerances, one-way, many times, in an avenue to scoring successfully to stay in the game.

 

[—coach— 3,496]

48 minutes ago, WalkingCivilWar said:

What does “closed skill” mean? I’ve never heard that term. And just like Viney, I’m all for learnings. ?

Closed skills are skills not affected by the environment

[monoccular 17,418]

11 hours ago, WERRIDEE said:

They just weren't switched on after quarter time. Just thought it would happen Hawthorn had other ideas. The bombing into the forward 50 was diabolical Stafford should be sacked. 

Looked far too contended at Q time.   All downhill from there.  

11 hours ago, layzie said:

Anyone else notice we tend to stink after 9 day breaks? Yet off 5 or 6 days breaks we’re golden. It’s like this group is better off when they roll on through battle hardened and too long of a break is like ring rust. I don’t know.

So should we look to finish fifth so as not to “risk” a week off in week 2 of finals ??? (tongue-in-cheek).  

[Mickey 4,659]

I understand people weren't happy with Oliver after that Spargo Mark, but did not one of you notice 5 seconds after that someone obviously said something to him and he put his hands up to apologise?

Think we're a bit quick to jump all over Clarry

[Dee Zephyr 19,267]

Anyone else belt out Beyoncé’s tune ‘Irreplaceable’ like my wife does when we kick out from a behind? 
‘To the left, to the left’

Saw numerous times players on their own to the right with hands up but always ignored. 

[one_demon 826]

1 hour ago, KLV said:

 Offer zero insights into strategy, tactics etc. 

This is one my frustrations with Channel Seven.  They never talk about what tactics are being employed, what strategies are working or not working, why Team A is leading.  Instead they interview a five-year old at half-time to try and get a cheap laugh.  

Edited July 18, 2021 by one_demon

[Rab D Nesbitt 8,367]

This thread is starting to feel like checking in on a bipolar relative each weekend. Anyway, I'm two coffees and a 25km bike ride to the good today so well equipped to deal with it. 

When I reflect on games like this I'm not really concerned that the opposition has worked us out. I'm sure every other coaching group in the competition know that playing the game with a high intensity and moving the ball low and fast to a forward target is the best way to play against a defence like ours. What they'll also know is that these two elements alone won't be enough to beat us unless we drop our intensity and the most comforting thing for me is that this last item is entirely within our own hands. 

This isn't the Melbourne that made a preliminary final in 2018. The 2021 version now has a dedicated winger, a gorilla full back and a bona fide lead up key forward. Personnel isn't our problem. The game plan isn't our problem. Being able to adapt during a game isn't our problem. Intensity and having the ability to bring it every game and every quarter is what makes us vulnerable coming into the pointy end of the season but it's this that still makes us masters of our destiny I think. 

I've just watched Goody's presser and Gus' interview with Ben Gibson and for me it's the ability of our coaching group to keep our players focussed on what they do well and to incrementally improve our intensity levels that will be important in the coming weeks leading into finals. 

It's a fairly young group we have and one day very soon they will have the weight of breaking a 57 year drought on their backs. Just because we've all been scarred by history I don't think projecting that frustration onto our team is going to help frankly. Of course I would love us to maul Hawthorn by 100 points like they have done to us over the years but we're not the '88 Hawks or the '00 Bombers and we'll just have to live with that fact I think. It's not for Kossie, Riv & Dogga to exorcise our demons unfortunately. 

Anyway, enjoy your Sunday everyone and bring on the GC. 

 

[Smokey 4,389]

1 minute ago, Rab D Nesbitt said:

This thread is starting to feel like checking in on a bipolar relative each weekend. Anyway, I'm two coffees and a 25km bike ride to the good today so well equipped to deal with it. 

When I reflect on games like this I'm not really concerned that the opposition has worked us out. I'm sure every other coaching group in the competition know that playing the game with a high intensity and moving the ball low and fast to a forward target is the best way to play against a defence like ours. What they'll also know is that these two elements alone won't be enough to beat us unless we drop our intensity and the most comforting thing for me is that this last item is entirely within our own hands. 

This isn't the Melbourne that made a preliminary final in 2018. The 2021 version now has a dedicated winger, a gorilla full back and a bona fide lead up key forward. Personnel isn't our problem. The game plan isn't our problem. Being able to adapt during a game isn't our problem. Intensity and having the ability to bring it every game and every quarter is what makes us vulnerable coming into the pointy end of the season but it's this that still makes us masters of our destiny I think. 

I've just watched Goody's presser and Gus' interview with Ben Gibson and for me it's the ability of our coaching group to keep our players focussed on what they do well and to incrementally improve our intensity levels that will be important in the coming weeks leading into finals. 

It's a fairly young group we have and one day very soon they will have the weight of breaking a 57 year drought on their backs. Just because we've all been scarred by history I don't think projecting that frustration onto our team is going to help frankly. Of course I would love us to maul Hawthorn by 100 points like they have done to us over the years but we're not the '88 Hawks or the '00 Bombers and we'll just have to live with that fact I think. It's not for Kossie, Riv & Dogga to exorcise our demons unfortunately. 

Anyway, enjoy your Sunday everyone and bring on the GC. 

 

Finally, a well measured post worth reading ... 

[bobby1554 1,244]

1 hour ago, Fork 'em said:

I wanted to turn it off 10mins into the last qr.
Could see the writing on the wall.
My only surprise is that we didn't actually lose it with 40seconds to go after the Hawthorn leveller.

As for learnings.
The players are parrots.
Brayshaw talked of learnings post game as well.
And with all the learnings over the years our parrots are obviously pretty thick.
 

 

Three things about this interview:

Gus thinks we are playing the Dogs this week

He has no idea what the issue is with us not turning up against lower sides

And they have been practising goal kicking for the last 2 months

Oh dear!

[WERRIDEE 5,468]

1 minute ago, bobby1554 said:

Three things about this interview:

Gus thinks we are playing the Dogs this week

He has no idea what the issue is with us not turning up against lower sides

And they have been practising goal kicking for the last 2 months

Oh dear!

I think Brayshaw knows exactly why we don't turn up against poor sides said the Hawks were mentally tough. So I think he knows we aren't. I'd be surprised if we beat the Gold Coast with the form we are in and every game we have played I thought we will win until now. 

[John Crow Batty 8,863]

10 minutes ago, bobby1554 said:

Three things about this interview:

Gus thinks we are playing the Dogs this week

He has no idea what the issue is with us not turning up against lower sides

And they have been practising goal kicking for the last 2 months

Oh dear!

Like a Freudian slip (an unintentional error revealing subconscious feelings) showing where the players minds are at. Thinking about the big boys and being dismissive of the weaker sides. 

Edited July 18, 2021 by John Crow Batty

[Dr.D 1,771]

51 minutes ago, Smokey said:

Not an ideal result, but here's some perspective for the doomsayers: 

• We are not in our prime now, we are coming into it. We are not going to be at our best every week. Our forward structure is still gelling
• 2 points is as good as 4 in the context of the season at this stage
• The only stat we lost was tackles
• We are on top of the ladder 
• We have beaten 7 out of 8 teams in the 8 right now. Anyone who says we are pretenders has a very low football IQ
• Bottom dwelling teams that have proven to bring us down to their level do not feature in September 
• Just because we are on top of the ladder doesn't mean supporters are entitled to a season where nothing goes wrong. You'd think after the years of mediocrity that people around here would be more mentally resilient, watching some of you throw your toys out of the cot after a loss is embarrassing. 

i'm sorry but you say 'still gelling' as if its improving? i haven't seen any improvement. Only consistent bad goal kicking.

Secondly, 2 points instead of 4 is the reason we could/most likely finish behind Brisbane, Port and Sydney on points. So it's extremely costly.

[Dr.D 1,771]

Oliver could still possibly get the 3 votes for this game.

But we need mids that are good kicks for goal. We don't have a luke shuey on our playing list. or anyone that comes close to his foot skills including in front of goal.

[Guest]

24 minutes ago, Rab D Nesbitt said:

This thread is starting to feel like checking in on a bipolar relative each weekend. 

 

Nailed it!!! ?

[Sydee 4,411]

4 minutes ago, Dr.D said:

Oliver could still possibly get the 3 votes for this game.

But we need mids that are good kicks for goal. We don't have a luke shuey on our playing list. or anyone that comes close to his foot skills including in front of goal.

Jake Bowey is very very good by foot and arguably our most precise field kick from the little I’ve seen 

I’m not saying he should be playing seniors yet but him delivering into forward 50 would help a great deal - of course someone still needs to kick straight - that seems a giant problem still 

I’m still staggered how professional footballers are capable of missing goals by big margins from as little as 35 metres - if asked to kick to someone that distance away at training under no pressure there is no way they would miss by 5 + metres - it is all in the head