2021 Leadership Group

[demon3165 2,718]

Gawn capt

May vc

Trac dvc

[deelusions from afar 1,810]

42 minutes ago, tiers said:

Good leaders are those who can lead by bringing players with them by offering direction and encouragement when needed on field.

Whilst Maxie is a great figurehead for the club off the field,  I don't recall him offering the sort of leadership required on the filed. Neither has Viney.

The players who seem to offer on field leadership are Trac and May. Safe and steady when the team is under pressure and able to direct their teammates when needed and lead by example.

I keep coming back to the best leadership examples of recent years - they were not generally the most charismatic or best players but rather those who contributed in many ways such as Maxwell, Cotchin, Harley, Wood who are all premiership captains.

Not solely directed at you tiers as many here share similar thoughts but I think this is pretty unfair on max.  Does anyone here really have a good sense of who are the best leaders at the club?

People were crying out for Max to be added to be captain prior to last season and now we think he isn't the best leadership material because we didn't finish where we wanted to.

It's not the be all and end all but to me it makes a difference that he's a captain that doesn't talk in cliches - love/d them all as players but Viney, Jones, Green etc never inspired me because confidence/words weren't their forte.  Which you don't need to have to be a good player but I think it is important as a captain.  And it's not as if Gawn doesn't back it up on the field.  While he didn't necessarily stand up when we needed him most last season, we now know he was carrying some big injuries - if anything shouldn't have been playing at all.

Gawn understands what it is like to struggle - with injury, in the VFL, being on the fringe of the list etc and also through hardwork has become a star of the comp.  It is well documented the homework he has done on ruck craft, opposition analysis, diet and fitness to become elite - and has been at this elite level (aside from injury interruptions) since Roos final year.  

I'm not against Trac and May being part of the leadership team in some form - but is it really just because they were our best / most consistent players last year?  If Trac can't keep it going / isn't suited to longer quarters - does he go out next season?They're big bodies and players that impact games.  But I don't think so any more than Gawn - he has saved us with critical marks in defence in addition to his ruck craft consistently for years.

I take your point about other captains, but in Trac and May you seem to be going for the best players in the last year aren't you?  It's interesting how prior to the tiges winning premierships, Cotchin regularly got criticised as a player (his possessions don't count) and captain (isn't one of the boys / doesn't live and breathe footy etc etc)

In my view, Gawn is best suited to be our captain but if we think leadership and captaincy changes is where we are going to make up the lost ground in catching up with the 8 / top 4, then i think we're on a hiding to nothing!

[nosoupforme 3,085]

 Steven May looks the goods to be in the leadership group. Why shouldn't he be, after all he was the captain at Gold Coast in 2017 and 2018 before moving to the Dees.

He had a sensational year down back in 2020 only being bettered by Petracca  and that was no mean feat. He is certainly IMV a leader who leads by example.

Gawn  C   Viney VC   May   DVC.   and in the not to distant future l would imagine Petracca and Oliver to be included in the leadership group.

[Pates 9,660]

Personally I thought it was a mistake to go only Captain and Vice-captain, when both got injured we ended up with Melksham as our captain (and I gotta say I have no idea how/why he was in that position given his awful form and honestly I have never thought he screamed leadership). 

I think there needs to be a group with roles. 

Captain - Gawn

VC - Viney 

Dep. VC - May

Leadership group - Trac, Jetta

The odd one that people might look at is Jetta given he will be fighting for his spot. Ironically that is one of the reasons to have him in there, a bridge between the first team and Casey where he can potentially push the values that we want across the board. 

Trac might not be in there but I think he should because not only does he do great things as a player, I also think he genuinely loves playing footy and players feed off that energy. Quite happy for him not to be in there though as well. 

Melks should focus on his form, he did not do things expected of a leader last year at all. 

[The Jackson FIX 3,101]

9 hours ago, Lord Nev said:

Yep, thought this one had been put to bed already but apparently not.

GC wanted a big gorilla defender, he rocked up to MFC and they wanted a more lean rebounding one. Pretty hard to instantly change your whole body shape.

Don’t disagree we wanted to change his shape vs GC but it was widely and consistently reported they were unhappy with the shape he turned up in.

[The Jackson FIX 3,101]

9 hours ago, Turner said:

if you exclude may who is obviously a strong leader and got past his injuries to play some seriously good footy in 20 then you need to have a next in behind him and from my POV i can't see who that is. lever's form whilst it improved was still patchy and not near what we gave up for him.

 

I’m not so sure why we’re desperate for change? 2020 was a bloody tough year in the bubble - literally the toughest challenge any leadership group has faced (at any club) in the history of our game. Let them go around again in that capacity, they’ll have learnt a lot and they deserve it. 
 

On the May front, I like the fact he offers loud on-field direction (as with Lever) but I just don’t see the rush to give him an official capacity. He had a GREAT season last year and our backline started to understand each other. Let him/them do that for another year. Make him bang down the fn door for an official title rather than just hand it to him after 1 good year. In the meantime, give those poor buggers who had to shoulder official leadership responsibility last year another crack at it this yr. 

[old55 23,557]

I think we need a leader in each part of the ground.  Finding one in the forward line isn't easy unless it's Ben Brown.

[Ron Burgundy 8,584]

May needs to be included in some senior leadership capacity.

And I expect he will be.

 

[nosoupforme 3,085]

Imo we have at least 18 players that could be in the leadership group and that is almost half of the list.   l might have overlooked someone however they are all leaders.

Should be inspired when you wear our great jumper. 

 

                                                

Edited January 21, 2021 by nosoupforme

[DeeSpencer 25,682]

Gawn needs to do less media, needs to stop bagging team mates with silly jokes that aren’t funny, needs to kick the ball less - especially short, and needs to bowl a few players over rather than be the victim.

He’s the right man for the job but needs to be reminded why he got the job and what it requires. 

[dazzledavey36 54,869]

My view on the leadership is this,

Gawns year as a captain in my opinion was poor. But I think he needs another full year because he would have reflected and right now be working on things he can get better as a leader. Gawn unfortunately is too soft and not ruthless enough with his teammates. He wants to be everyone's mate, and I totally get that because that's his nature. But he needs to find that fine balance of separating that into being more demanding and ruthless with his teammates. I look at some of the best teams that have had great success in Brisbane, Hawthorn, Richmond. Hodge, Voss, Cotchin and even Nick Maxwell,  are the four who just demand high quality standards through being ruthless as a leader. Its no coincidence the culture and standards they set resulted in sustained success. 

This is why I think Gawn needs another year. I look at Cotchin and laughed when he first got named captain, but he grew into his role over time and became high demanding leader who also found the balance of being the good guy but also demanding excellence on field.

The one guy who fits all of that bill right now in my opinion is Steven May. You only have to go back to his post match interview the port Adelaide game to watch how much he was seething after that performance. He gets its, and the players respect him. He demands absolutely 120% from his teammates and he's not afraid to give it to them if they are not performing at a standard that they should be.

Give Gawn one more year perhaps. But if I wanted a leader right now next to me in the trenches its Steven May then daylight.

Oh and less gags on a podcast thanks Gawny and more focus in getting the standards right, we are highly impatient supporters who want to see  sustained finals success.

Edited January 21, 2021 by dazzledavey36

[Turner 1,514]

12 hours ago, tiers said:

Good leaders are those who can lead by bringing players with them by offering direction and encouragement when needed on field.

Whilst Maxie is a great figurehead for the club off the field,  I don't recall him offering the sort of leadership required on the filed. Neither has Viney.

The players who seem to offer on field leadership are Trac and May. Safe and steady when the team is under pressure and able to direct their teammates when needed and lead by example.

I keep coming back to the best leadership examples of recent years - they were not generally the most charismatic or best players but rather those who contributed in many ways such as Maxwell, Cotchin, Harley, Wood who are all premiership captains.

gawny regularly stands up late in games and takes huge "come with me if you want to win" marks and is regularly seen working his [censored] off to get deep in defence and play a role for the team and work hard to cover the ground lay tackles etc. + he is relatable and personable and obviously gets along and is approachable to all the squad. also time and time again we have seen him look stern and confront the group before gathering with the coach when we're playing [censored]. and realistically thats all traits of good leadership and captain material imo

[BW511 2,668]

14 minutes ago, Turner said:

gawny regularly stands up late in games and takes huge "come with me if you want to win" marks and is regularly seen working his [censored] off to get deep in defence and play a role for the team and work hard to cover the ground lay tackles etc. + he is relatable and personable and obviously gets along and is approachable to all the squad. also time and time again we have seen him look stern and confront the group before gathering with the coach when we're playing [censored]. and realistically thats all traits of good leadership and captain material imo

I'm with @DeeSpencer , there is definitely a lot more he could be doing (or less in some instances) and some of his decision making is bizarre. The Cotchin example is a good one, he became a leader and he's pretty highly respected for it. If he wasn't as accomplished as a leader, he'd be struggling to get a gig now.

[Smokey 4,389]

Whatever ends up happening, I expect to see Steve May's name in there somewhere. He is everything our group needs in a leader.

 

[dpositive 1,665]

Leadership and captaincy are different roles and are not necessarily complementary.

The captain tosses the coin and takes interviews, represents the club in official capacity. It is wise to have a captain and a vice captain to share the duties especially when one is unavailable.

There may even be an opportunity to assign official roles to players eg Jetta to comment on issues relating to indigenous matters or a player to officiate in fund raising, member liasson, etc.

Leadership is required in a range of situations , in a range of fashions. Again that range does not necessarily come in a single package or at a convenient time. 

Some leadership tasks are almost routine and can be an assigned role which is usually expected of the captain. This role can sometimes conflict with the formal dignitary role and is why the best leader is often not best titled captain.

Leadership is most regularly required as an inspirational act at a significant time. Leadership obviously implies that there are followers, both roles must be understood and recognised. Leadership is often just an ability to recognise the moment that followers need leading.  Melbourne captains and players have consistently failed in this aspect.

I do not know enough about the structures and capacities of the club and individual players but make these comments based on information gleaned from my limited observation and comments of others in this thread.

Max is a great personality as well as one of our most significant players. He can inspire through performance but being such aan apparently lighthearted positive character, can often not recognise the significance of an occasion.

Viney is undoubtably inspirational with his attack on the ball, but again often is unable to recognise the significance of his actions and I think has been disappointed that others who cannot match his aggression do not follow him. His simplistic response of aggression is not always appropriate when often strategic absorbing and calmness is required.

May did seem to step up and displayed real emotion and desire to lead by example. His teaching and direction seemed to increase which was a reflection of his experience and desire.

Lever has always presented in match interviews as a coherent and articulate character. His on feild direction and ability to work cooperatively with May and others was positive.

I have not seen any consistent performance of leadership or captaincy from any of our forwards in the last few years,( perhaps since Lyon , Schwartz, Green,) 

. I thought that TMac had potential but now look for the emergence from our list. Trac definitely seems to have taken the next step up perhaps learning from Jones example. Jones himself was flawed only due to the lack of capacity around him to follow and his own skills limitation which were a consequence of him being forced to undertake too many tasks..

I hope the clubs new coaching structure can identify an improved model but more importantly can communicate this in a positive fashion to players and supporter sports so we are all united. 

[P-man 13,366]

Gawn (C), Viney (VC), May, Trac

Four players is enough, although I wouldn’t object to Salem as the fifth. It’s time for those in his age bracket to take the reigns.

Oliver is another year away from inclusion in terms of maturity and Lever needs to concentrate solely on getting back to his best.

[Harbinger43 124]

Captain and VC to remain as is.     May a lock for leadership group 

[Lucifers Hero 39,752]

In the last 4 years we have had co-caps, then C/VC  with significant leadership group changes each year both in the size of the group and the members.  A bit all over the shop.  It was like the coaches couldn't make up their minds.  Last year we didn't have a formal leadership group to back up Gawn and Viney altho at some stage Melksham and Lever were said to be the leaders of their area but no formal announcement from the club. 

This may be controversial and sacrilegious but imv May is a better choice for VC than Viney.

Nonetheless, for the sake of consistency I would go with the 3 (maybe 4) person leadership model with Gawn (C), Viney (VC), and May.  No one else stands out on both performance and leadership attributes.  All other players need to focus on their own games to become the best they can be and don't need formal leadership duties to distract them. 

This is the year for consistency:  Consistent leadership, consistent game plan, consistent selections.  Time to bed down our team and our style.  

Edited January 23, 2021 by Lucifer's Hero

[58er 6,425]

On 1/21/2021 at 6:47 PM, CHF said:

If I am honest, I was not overly impressed with Gawn's captaincy  last season. iI my opinion he needs to drive the on field performance  lot more, not just by his actions but also by giving timely, critical feedback to the players. I hope that he is getting guidance in this area.

Having said that, I would still have him as sole captain this season but make sure that he had a strong and clearly defined support group under him.

In some ways I think we have made a rod for our own back by having Viney as a leader so early. It is a difficult thing to demote him without demotivating him. I would have him as a VC but as VC I would also include May. He is a general in defence and was in great form last season.

Three others to round out the formal leadership would be Lever, Langdon and Petracca.

I believe that our leadership despite Max's suitability for many of the Roles and his ability to carry out most it is the footy (onfield) which is the almost gaping hole that still eludes us.

Exsmple is a great teacher but good teams are all the better fir honest and at  times critical leadership where the Captain runs things on the Field in tight last quarters With words and advice at The crucial times. We have lacked this for years since Neita IMO, despite James  MAC's efforts.

Clearly the best leader who demands and earns the right to lead at this most critical time is Steven May. Those that say he hasn't earnt that right Are correct in many ways BUT we don't have unlimited time to waste !!!

He has the standing  in the group to take the role on and lead from that minute in the most critical phase on the field where we need an urgent lift  in tight Finishes and also As a disciplinarian giving advice out on the ground as needed.

It won't happen as Maxy will be given this year to improve that aspect of his role and May will be in the leadership group hopefully being groomed ( mostly assuming a major role driving at Team meetings and on the ground. 

The tome is right for Trac continue his evolution as a team player and leader and Langers also could assist.

Lever I believe would benefit from an elevation to the group and Ben Brown  and Clarry Could well be ready this time next year to round off the group. 
 

One bolter for the future is Trent Rivers who by 2022 should tick all the boxes despite his youth he is our potential version today  of the great Joel Selwood and Represents and screams leadership and maturity beyond his years.

2021 will bring challenges again no doubts and we are getting better with players maturing but we need not to waste too many years expecting finished products or 5 year certificates earning the right if it will improve our all important culture this year as learning on the job us the best way all of us expand and develop our skills in life and sport and careers also.

[Lil_red_fire_engine 11,172]

It will be interesting to see where this lands, general points.

Captaincy has additional requirements and attributes on top of what is needed to be in the leadership group.

Anyone that leads people of 18-35 bracket in any environment these days will understand that now more than ever leadership requires different ways to get the best out of different folk.

The leadership group is best serviced by a varied dynamic to “show the way” on field and track but to debate and connect with all types off ground and ensure diverse thought and action.

It is preferable to have designated leaders across the ground but should not be manufactured. Example Brown can lead and direct the forward line on match day without being in the leadership group.

Being a good player and years of service or maturity does not make some one eligible to be part of it. Nor is suited or wanted by all.,

I dont feel Gawn failed as a captain last year I feel he learnt what is required in his first year on the job which could not have been more difficult.

Structure for me should be Captain Gawn, VC May, DVC Trac. Thought struggle to see them not include Viney.

 

 

[Krackered 11]

Capt gawn

Leadership group / Vice capts  viney, may, Langdon and Trac 

[picket fence 17,146]

Max captain

May vice captain

Clarry dvc

I would not have Viney anywhere in the leadership group as I dont think he is suited to leadership 

Lever, Ben Brown and chunky Jones round of my group

 

[BDA 22,744]

I’m sure there are very good reasons for having leadership groups but the whole concept leaves me cold.

Leadership isn’t conferred or bestowed. It’s demonstrated.

Steven May didn’t have a title last year but in word and deed he was head and shoulders above every other player on our list.

It’s been said elsewhere and I wholeheartedly agree but Trent Rivers showed more leadership than most of the list. Run, carry, defensive efforts and clutch goals. He was outstanding and is a born leader.

I love Gawny. He leads by example on the field, taking important marks defensively, taking responsibility and copping plenty of treatment from the opposition but he’s too much of a joker off field. Nothing wrong with that but it doesn’t translate into gravitas or respect when demanding greater levels of effort from the team.

They can hand out the titles any which way but I think Steven May is the de facto captain of the club.

[Lord Nev 13,512]

7 minutes ago, picket fence said:

Clarry dvc

I would not have Viney anywhere in the leadership group as I dont think he is suited to leadership

[Bitter but optimistic 22,239]

5 hours ago, Lord Nev said:

If you disagree with a poster Nev, how about trying discussion and logic, instead of silly pictures.

Unless you’re linguistically challenged of course