I really do feel sorry for Sam and hope he recovers quickly

Having said that he is certainly extremely gifted at finding ways of not managing to fulfill his much talked about potential

Time is running out imo

I don't think the injuries to B.Brown and Weid mean we should be looking for more key forwards but it might mean we should look for some mature ruck depth now.

I was OK going into the season with Jackson, Bradtke and probably some combination of TMac and M.Brown as back-up depth to Max.  But now it's pretty clear that Jackson, TMac and M.Brown are required to fill the KPF roles.

So I think some mature ruck depth is warranted.

Did Williams coach Port to a Premiership with a rather short CHF in Warren Treadrea at 6foot 4Inches.

How many forwards that size have we got? Was fast as i remember and bulky too.

Point is it can be done....

31 minutes ago, willmoy said:

Did Williams coach Port to a Premiership with a rather short CHF in Warren Treadrea at 6foot 4Inches.

How many forwards that size have we got? Was fast as i remember and bulky too.

Point is it can be done....

Williams was a good strategist. In their winning GF,  Tredrea surprisingly played up the ground allowing the less famous tall Toby Thurstans to kick a decent number of goals. Won them the match without doubt.

 

From the club's twitter account today at training. Got to admire the resilience.

Webber was all over it when he suggested there was nothing stopping Sam building the upper body. Looks like he's made a pretty good start of it already.

 

I couldn't see anything wrong with his foot at all.......

5 hours ago, CYB said:

Salt on the wound? Geez it would be ironic if he has a stellar year and we have our 2 key positions players injured. 

https://www.sen.com.au/news/2021/02/11/hogan-getting-better-and-better-in-first-full-pre-season-in-years

There was word that he wanted to come back and we said no

1 hour ago, willmoy said:

I couldn't see anything wrong with his foot at all.......

That's because its not his foot

15 hours ago, binman said:

I like players who try super hard and play with intensity. And tackle. 

No time for weed?

Again with the misrepresentation.

When did I say I had no time for him? Or even imply I had no time for him?

I've always 'had time' for sam.

I gave him credit for his goals and highlighted his marks inside 50. Have always been a fan. I'm a fan of all our players (though melksham is testing my patience)

I said I had lost faith, explained why, and supported that view with evidence. All very logical and dispassionate i would have thought.

But I sincerly hope he makes it.  I am open for my faith to be restored. He has the talent, as I have acknowledged throughout his career. Just has to get to AFL level intensity. 

I'm critical of a player and you of all people find that curious?

And on Marshall I landed on him because I was looking for a comparable player and correctly assumed he fitted the bill. 

Believe, or not believe me, I don't care but I didn't look at his tackle count unti after I selected him. Either way it proved my point.

But for fairness sake here are the number of tackles in 2020 of a random selection of some other key forwards (young and old):

Max King: 22

Ben King: 7

Josh Kennedy: 16

Luke Jackson: 8 (in 6 games). So 2 more than Sam in 7 fewer games. A kid in his first season of footy.

Tmac: 15 (in 9 games)

Dixon: 18

Sam Day: 21

Jeremy Cameron: 24

Hawkins: 40

Oscar Allen (who i should have picked because he is pretty comparable age wise etc and plays with the sort of intensity I wish Sam did. And his name is Oscar): 41

Charlie curnow: six fewer than Sam, with zero. Had a good excuse though as he didn't play a game last season. But over his career averages 2.2 per game so on that average would have had 28 odd if he had played Sam's 13 games.

Tom Lynch (tigers): 23

Tom Lynch (crows): 13 

Tex Walker: 14.

Darling: 35.

You get the point.

Maybe.

Perhaps you are ok with a key forward averaging a tackle every two games. 

Maybe in your analysis of a players you don't rate the tackle stat or don't mind that a 95 kg, 23 year old key forward doesn't throw his weight around, crunch defenders, apply pressure or trap the ball inside 50.

Call me crazy, but I do. 

Weid’s a bad pressure player, that’s why I was skeptical on the fit with B Brown. But he can tackle - and to hurt - when he catches guys.

It’s hard to know just how bad he is because he’s played so few games in a functioning pressure forward line. He was more like 1 tackle a game early in the season last year, then ran out of puff late. It’s hard to read much in to his last month when the bloke was gassed.

The numbers are clearly inflated by games where he was in the ruck but his 2018 tackle numbers were much better.

Everyone has to press up and cut off outlets and Weid and the other tall/s have to bring the ball to ground for their to be tackles. A Fritsch/Melk/Preuss or Brown or T Mc/and half fit Hannan forward line wasn’t going to lead to many tackles for the big blokes. Defenders had options everywhere to escape the press.

17 hours ago, JimmyGadson said:

Yeh, you reckon Marshall is a fair comparison because his tackle count is high for a kpp and it suits your argument. 

I think you pick and choose who you like frankly. 

All the time in the world for Oscar who is now delisted.

No time for Weideman. 

Doesn't quite add up. 

No it doesn't quite add up because they both have a similar trait. Lack of intensity.

59 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

Weid’s a bad pressure player, that’s why I was skeptical on the fit with B Brown. But he can tackle - and to hurt - when he catches guys.

It’s hard to know just how bad he is because he’s played so few games in a functioning pressure forward line. He was more like 1 tackle a game early in the season last year, then ran out of puff late. It’s hard to read much in to his last month when the bloke was gassed.

The numbers are clearly inflated by games where he was in the ruck but his 2018 tackle numbers were much better.

Everyone has to press up and cut off outlets and Weid and the other tall/s have to bring the ball to ground for their to be tackles. A Fritsch/Melk/Preuss or Brown or T Mc/and half fit Hannan forward line wasn’t going to lead to many tackles for the big blokes. Defenders had options everywhere to escape the press.

Fair comments.

I actually like Sam as a relief ruck. It gets him involved and I reckon he showed some natural rucking skills in 2018. And as you say he tackled more and did some damage.

I thought it was strange he didn't play there at all last year, but perhaps it was related to the hip issues he had (i think it was hip, perhaps someone else?).

I take your point about the forward line, and being gassed at season's end.

 That said six tackles in 13 games is not good enough. And given 2 were against the crows he only had 4 in the remaining 12 games.

I have always thought he is a confidence player. Maybe a couple of months working on his upper body strength will help him to compete better against big key defenders and help his mind set.

He is a beautiful set shot and we need every good kick we can get. And for a few weeks he seemed to be gelling well with LJ, so I hope he comes back bigger and better.

And tackles.

4 hours ago, willmoy said:

Did Williams coach Port to a Premiership with a rather short CHF in Warren Treadrea at 6foot 4Inches.

How many forwards that size have we got? Was fast as i remember and bulky too.

Point is it can be done....

How is 194cm short ? He was a big unit. Of course Treadrea was also Ports leading goal kicker 8 times plus 4 AA's & 4 B&F's. We have no key fwds anywhere near that calibre.

If it wasn't for BBBJB and dodgy knees Tredrea would've been the best key forward in the competition during his peak years

2 hours ago, Cranky Franky said:

How is 194cm short ? He was a big unit. Of course Treadrea was also Ports leading goal kicker 8 times plus 4 AA's & 4 B&F's. We have no key fwds anywhere near that calibre.

That says it all CF. 

5 hours ago, binman said:

Fair comments.

I actually like Sam as a relief ruck. It gets him involved and I reckon he showed some natural rucking skills in 2018. And as you say he tackled more and did some damage.

I thought it was strange he didn't play there at all last year, but perhaps it was related to the hip issues he had (i think it was hip, perhaps someone else?).

I take your point about the forward line, and being gassed at season's end.

 That said six tackles in 13 games is not good enough. And given 2 were against the crows he only had 4 in the remaining 12 games.

I have always thought he is a confidence player. Maybe a couple of months working on his upper body strength will help him to compete better against big key defenders and help his mind set.

He is a beautiful set shot and we need every good kick we can get. And for a few weeks he seemed to be gelling well with LJ, so I hope he comes back bigger and better.

And tackles.

Gees Binman we must be watching different games. I reckon his ruckwork is very poor. He is dreadful at boundary throw ins - I can't recall him winning 1 ever. I rate him our worst part time ruck since Chris Dawes.

 

17 hours ago, Pollyanna said:

I don't think the injuries to B.Brown and Weid mean we should be looking for more key forwards but it might mean we should look for some mature ruck depth now.

I was OK going into the season with Jackson, Bradtke and probably some combination of TMac and M.Brown as back-up depth to Max.  But now it's pretty clear that Jackson, TMac and M.Brown are required to fill the KPF roles.

So I think some mature ruck depth is warranted.

They will do as much ruck relief between them as needed especially LJ who will be Lukey Everywhere as his young legs Build his career like a young colt.

Bradtke could also get a chance if necessary but I wouldn't be looking at a ruck especially for rookie or SSS or mid year draft.

On 2/12/2021 at 8:50 AM, CYB said:

Salt on the wound? Geez it would be ironic if he has a stellar year and we have our 2 key positions players injured. 

https://www.sen.com.au/news/2021/02/11/hogan-getting-better-and-better-in-first-full-pre-season-in-years

“He’s had his first pre-season in a long, long time. He trains Monday to Friday which is great,” Cameron told Sportsday.

“He’s living with Shane Mumford so you can make of that how you will, it’s been a really good thing though.“

?

Mumford and Hogan shacking up together.

What could possibly go wrong?

On 2/10/2021 at 11:02 PM, dazzledavey36 said:

You've actually missed my point.

OK, what was your point?

Because to me, your posts read as if you were critical of our list management for not having more talls on our list.

On 2/10/2021 at 9:32 PM, Earl Hood said:

Yes thankfully we kept Tom. We are now looking at Tommy, Petty, Mitch Brown and Luke Jackson as key forwards, aligned with Fritsch, Tracc, Melchum as mid sized forwards with Spargo, Kossie, Nibbler as crumbers.... it’s not the end of the world if our midfield dominance continues into 2021 and you know we get that connection between mids and forwards functioning. 

Nibbler?  ...king useless.  Is now the worst player in the comp with the departure of Omac.

On 2/10/2021 at 9:43 PM, don't make me angry said:

Your right, people saying that Goodwin won't put him forward, because he has been training as a forward, and he is the worst coach and is inflexible, forget that petty played his last game as a forward.

Goodwin thru Omac up forward at one point in one of those last must win games.  That remains to this day the worst coaching move in the history of world sports.  If that did not convince the Goodwin supporters on here that he is the worst coach in the history of world sports, nay, the nine realms of world sports, then nothing ever will...

I know I know I know, I just can't let it go...

but ..ck me, let those words sink in.  He. threw. Oscar. McDonald. up. forward. when. we. needed. to. score.  That is our coach ladies and gentleman!  I'm chuckling out loud now, into a belly laugh...

Unforgiveable!  Unbelievable.  Incomprehendible.  

Needs to be sacked, right now.  How short our memories are.  

Give the job to Chocco.  Proven.  Winner.

How difficult is it....?

On 2/10/2021 at 9:53 PM, monoccular said:

It is now February by  the way 

Yep... and not full of any hope or optimism! 

3 minutes ago, Steno said:

Yep... and not full of any hope or optimism! 

Speak for yourself Steno!!! 

At the bottom of the HS report on Daw, this was also added -

“Brown is expected to miss several months after knee surgery” 

several months?!? ... so much for back running in 4 weeks as mentioned by Richo.

7 minutes ago, BrisbaneDemon said:

At the bottom of the HS report on Daw, this was also added -

“Brown is expected to miss several months after knee surgery” 

several months?!? ... so much for back running in 4 weeks as mentioned by Richo.

what, has he had another knee surgery after the minor cleanout a few weeks ago?

 

18 minutes ago, BrisbaneDemon said:

At the bottom of the HS report on Daw, this was also added -

“Brown is expected to miss several months after knee surgery” 

If the Herald Sun says so it must be true.