Wallace: Dees Stunted Weideman’s Development

[Demonland 72,176]

“I just think that Melbourne have got to settle down Sam Weideman and just play him week in, week out,” Wallace told SEN’s Dwayne’s World. 

“They’ve tried three key forwards and they’ve tried two key forwards with (Tom) McDonald being one of those. I think their best option has been (Luke) Jackson and Weideman … let those two develop.

“I think personally that Melbourne’s actually stunted Weideman’s development. 

“Why do I say that? Since that prelim final they’ve been too particular at match committee on whether he is playing well enough to absolutely hold his spot."

Australian Football Hall of Famer Wallace urged Melbourne to get games into Weideman like what Brisbane has done with Eric Hipwood.

“Have a look at Brisbane with what they did with Eric Hipwood, they just believed that Eric Hipwood was where they are going," Wallace said. 

“He’s had ups and downs, good games and bad games, but they just played him and played him and played him. 

“Weideman’s actually older than Hipwood … Weideman’s played 37 games and Hipwood’s played 86 – 49 games difference. 

"I just think that they’ve actually tried too hard with what they’ve been doing with Weideman. They just need to play him.”

[Melb-A-Toast 257]

My view is that the FD did commit to Weideman, playing him either round 1 or early for 2018 and 2019.

In both season starts his form was not great and seemed to deteriorate. I would guess that the FD pursued until they saw him losing confidence. They then allowed him to rebuild his confidence and came good towards the end of each season.

This year they changed tack and made sure that he was consistently doin the right things before selecting him.

Kudos to the FD and Weideman

[Mazer Rackham 14,971]

Wallace's timing is severely off, and he will face punishment from the AFL Media Sub-Committee for Kicking Teams When They Are Down.

He's supposed to do this kind of article after we've LOST two games in a row.

[Ethan Tremblay 30,856]

Completely agree with Wallace. 

[Pickett2Jackson 3,904]

"Do not focus on the past, focus on the present and be grateful that Weid has arrived"  -  Confucius probably

[Lucifers Hero 39,757]

Firstly, thanks for quoting the key parts for those of us who can't get behind a paywall.

Wallace should check the facts.  Sam's development has been interrupted by surgeries and injuries.  It has been stop/start development.

As for this 'Captain Obvious' comment:   I think their best option has been (Luke) Jackson and Weideman … let those two develop.  That is exactly what the club is doing!!  Jackson has been at the club for only 5 minutes.  Couldn't have done it any earlier!

Comparing Sam to Hipwood is silly.  Totally different builds and have had different roles:  haven't seen Hipwood in the ruck. 

Wallace is amazing at how he can put words together that make little sense.  Click baiter extraodinaire!

Edited August 11, 2020 by Lucifer's Hero

[Lord Nev 13,512]

He's half right IMO.

There's definitely games Weid should have been selected for; meaning he would have had more experience and exposure by now.

But as LH rightly points out above, there's more context to it if comparing him to Hipwood. Not only did Weid start from further back development wise when drafted (and the club was open about him being a longer term project), but he's had a really poorly timed run of injuries and setbacks. Really, comparing him to anyone form the same draft is pretty unfair on Weid when looking into it more deeply than just total games played.

In saying all that, he's definitely not been in the 'Goody's Boys' category like some others, and the shifting around of his role probably hasn't helped either. Of course, unless we get to see an alternate universe where there's another Weid who had that different development then it's impossible to know what the difference would be.

[rjay 24,919]

3 minutes ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

Firstly, thanks for quoting the key parts for those of us who can't get behind a paywall.

Wallace should check the facts.  Sam's development has been interrupted by surgeries and injuries.  It has been stop/start development.

As for this 'Captain Obvious' comment:   I think their best option has been (Luke) Jackson and Weideman … let those two develop.  That is exactly what the club is doing!!  Jackson has been at the club for only 5 minutes.  Couldn't have done it any earlier!

Comparing Sam to Hipwood is silly.  Totally different builds and have had different roles:  haven't seen Hipwood in the ruck.  A better comparison is Harry McKay; same draft, similar build, similar rate of development and has played 40 games.

Wallace is amazing at how he can put words together that make little sense.  Click baiter extraodinaire!

Whilst I think Wallace neglected to mention the injury issues other than that he is right.

As for making little sense, I think Wallace is one of the few that do make sense a lot of the time.

Pity he is retiring after this season.

We left Sam out in the wilderness for way too long.

He needed to play, the FD were way too quick to send him back down on a number of occasions whilst keeping the faith in Tommy Mac who was really struggling.

The Jackson Weideman duo is the obvious one now, but still a number on here want to see Tommy in the mix.

Let it go.

As for the ruck role, it didn't do him any favours particularly in this preseason.

I thought it was pretty dumb to play Sam in the ruck (next to no forward time) when we needed him to develop as a KPF...

Anyway, he looks on track now. No doubt he will have his down days, still yet to play 50 games but let's hope the FD and Goody keep the faith and don't get too cute.

[durango 2,007]

I watched Sam play prior to this year he was not agressive enough to split packs and take big pack marks but in the last 6 matches he has improved this aspect of his game.

I believe his development was not helped by his injuries at times when he was getting better at this art.

I have found some young footballers who are very big at an early age are afraid to hit packs in the under age competition for the fear of hurting smaller opponents so they just try to out mark them which is ok in under age footy but when you get to the big time your opponent is just as big as you are so you have to become more agressive or fall by the wayside as a player.

[Nasher 33,614]

I guess the counter-argument is that overplaying a key position when they’re not ready is also counterproductive and can also compromise their long term playing future.

In the case of Weideman, this season is the only one where I think there is a legitimate argument where he wasn’t playing when he should have been. In 2018 he was rightfully behind TMac and Hogan, and came in to play a role in finals when Hogan was out. 2019 was a writeoff with poor form and multiple injuries. So maybe he should be on 40 games instead of 37. Big deal. He’s in now and I can’t see him going out again.

[Lucifers Hero 39,757]

2 minutes ago, rjay said:

Whilst I think Wallace neglected to mention the injury issues other than that he is right.

As for making little sense, I think Wallace is one of the few that do make sense a lot of the time.

Pity he is retiring after this season.

We left Sam out in the wilderness for way too long.

He needed to play, the FD were way too quick to send him back down on a number of occasions whilst keeping the faith in Tommy Mac who was really struggling.

The Jackson Weideman duo is the obvious one now, but still a number on here want to see Tommy in the mix.

Let it go.

As for the ruck role, it didn't do him any favours particularly in this preseason.

I thought it was pretty dumb to play Sam in the ruck (next to no forward time) when we needed him to develop as a KPF...

Anyway, he looks on track now. No doubt he will have his down days, still yet to play 50 games but let's hope the FD and Goody keep the faith and don't get too cute.

I'm not one who wants to play TMac. 

I'm ok with his roles in the ruck at VFL and give Max a break as we had no one else and it helps him in his defensive fwd play. 

Just saying his comparison with Hipwood is poor.  In addition to the reasons mentioned above, during Sam's tenure we had Watts, Pederson and Hogan then Hogan and TMac so there wasn't a lot of room for Sam.  He did a great job when called up to replace Jesse in late 2018 but we still had a 2 talls fwd structure.  In 2019 the whole team was crap, TMac failed miserably leaving Sam to take the 1st defender, until he himself lost confidence and became injured.  Meanwhile, Hipwood played a support role in a strong team.  Wallace is comparing apples and oranges.

Wallace may make sense at times, I just think this isn't one of those times.  He has chosen the Weideman vs Hipwood scenario to pot the club.

 

[Wiseblood 24,637]

8 minutes ago, Nasher said:

I guess the counter-argument is that overplaying a key position when they’re not ready is also counterproductive and can also compromise their long term playing future.

In the case of Weideman, this season is the only one where I think there is a legitimate argument where he wasn’t playing when he should have been. In 2018 he was rightfully behind TMac and Hogan, and came in to play a role in finals when Hogan was out. 2019 was a writeoff with poor form and multiple injuries. So maybe he should be on 40 games instead of 37. Big deal. He’s in now and I can’t see him going out again.

Agree, especially with the second paragraph.

However, would it be remiss to say that the club did the right thing in waiting to play him when they did?  It seems as though he has come in to the side with more confidence and more belief in himself than he has at any stage in his career.  This is an assumption based on his time out of the side, but it seems as though they asked him to work on certain aspects of his game and, when he did, he would get a run.  Prior to him being selected we went with Brown, Jackson and T Mac in various forms, and let's not forget the one tall forward line experiment that was a massive fail.

Key position players can take time, and I think the kudos needs to be shared between Sam and the coaches for ensuring that, when he did return to the side, he was ready to do the things being asked of him, and we're all reaping the rewards of that.

[DistrACTION Jackson 8,733]

So playing in the VFL to work on your craft is not development?

Back in the day kids would have to earn their stripes in the reserves before playing seniors.

[DeeSpencer 25,687]

2016: gets a taste at the end of the year for 3 games after a decent enough VFL year.

2017: Plays the first 4 and has another couple of chances at the end of the year. Clearly isn’t ready.

2018: Stuck behind an excellent pairing of Hogan and McDonald. Still gets 4 games early and then gets his chance at the end of the year to breakout in finals. 

———————————————————————

Surely no one has major complaints with how much Sam was played in his first 3 years? 

Last year he played 11 of the first 16 and probably would’ve come back in to play a few more. That’s despite injuries and confidence issues.

I understand the argument that he should’ve just played every game he was fit for in 2019 but I don’t really believe it. Getting him back to Casey for a bit of confidence probably helped him more than grinding through 22 games of misery. 

[old55 23,559]

And here I thought we have been "historically guilty of gifting young players games when they don't deserve them" - it's very hard to keep up with all the things we're doing wrong.

Edited August 11, 2020 by Pollyanna

[Little Goffy 14,530]

Elaborating on his point, Wallace goes on to argue that gifting games to kids who aren't quite ready is definitely the way to develop their confidence. He contrasted Melbourne's past successes of 2009-2014 exemplified by getting a quick first 50 games into Jack Watts, against their other failures such as the way they constantly held back Max Gawn instead of letting him play regularly while unfit and unprofessional.

"Those Schwab era Demons really knew what they were doing, just like me at Richmond."

[McQueen 17,864]

The last two games where I’ve seen him clunking marks, using his body to our-position or crash packs and timing the high point of the ball is wonderful to witness at last. 
But even his 2018 finals campaign he was luckily the recipient of a few fluke marks and easy goals and of course the salubrious hit on Dangerflop. 
 

I think he’s finally starting to evolve into a man of confidence and a real team player. Clearly the club would’ve preferred it to happen faster but alas it hasn’t. 
Sam is right where he’s needed to be all along his career thus far. 
 

Wallace is a gormless media bit player. 

[dazzledavey36 54,885]

56 minutes ago, rjay said:

Whilst I think Wallace neglected to mention the injury issues other than that he is right.

As for making little sense, I think Wallace is one of the few that do make sense a lot of the time.

Pity he is retiring after this season.

We left Sam out in the wilderness for way too long.

He needed to play, the FD were way too quick to send him back down on a number of occasions whilst keeping the faith in Tommy Mac who was really struggling.

The Jackson Weideman duo is the obvious one now, but still a number on here want to see Tommy in the mix.

Let it go.

As for the ruck role, it didn't do him any favours particularly in this preseason.

I thought it was pretty dumb to play Sam in the ruck (next to no forward time) when we needed him to develop as a KPF...

Anyway, he looks on track now. No doubt he will have his down days, still yet to play 50 games but let's hope the FD and Goody keep the faith and don't get too cute.

Well said. 

[Lord Travis 10,729]

The mistake wasn't dropping him when he didn't perform, the mistake was not giving him a set role up forward to grow into. We swung him round in the ruck where he played all over the ground and could never settle. Young players need consistency in what they're being asked to do, or they'll never develop properly. Now that he's being played at FF exclusively we are seeing immediate results. Yet another player whose development we got wrong, but he's not lost like others thankfully.

Play him at FF in future and we get 40-60 goals out of him. Done. 

Edited August 11, 2020 by Lord Travis

[buck_nekkid 5,858]

Headline should read “Wallace stunts own development by listening to what comes out of his own mouth.”

[Dr.D 1,771]

Of course Goodwin has stunted Weideman' s development. Wallace couldn't be more correct. 

A big reason why I don't believe Goodwin has any idea what he's doing.

[Sideshow Bob 2,370]

So you play the kids consistently and get done for stunting their development and not giving them time in the 2s to grow and learn etc.

And then get done for stunting their development when you actually do the above.... ?

Edited August 11, 2020 by jako13

[Dr.D 1,771]

Just now, buck_nekkid said:

Headline should read “Wallace stunts own development by listening to what comes out of his own mouth.”

What are you talking about? Everything he said is completely correct. 

It was a joke that he wasn't in the team for so long. The argument that 'oh Goodwin is responsible for his good form by making him work on his weaknesses' is such a BS argument. This idea that you lose your ability is a joke. Or the idea that you're out of form one week, but in form 2 weeks later is another joke. I'm not seeing anything from Weideman now that he wasn't doing consistently 2 years ago. I've also never seen him do a single thing on the field that warranted being dropped. 

Goodwin can not coach and everyone will be calling for his head after we start getting smacked by real opposition.

[Dr. Gonzo 24,212]

Up to 2018 he was competing with Hogan and TMac for a spot.

Last year he was given two runs of games and was dropped and/or injured.

This year they waited too long to play him but got him in the side after 4 or 5 games.

I doubt he'll be dropped anytime soon considering his form this season and the significant drop off of TMac.

Wallace is partially right, he's only a few weeks too late. The only way we have really stunted his growth is by playing him in the ruck pre-season when Gawn was injured and not playing him earlier this year.

[Cranky Franky 2,058]

He's half right.  Goody was bloody stubborn early this year insisting on playing a midget fwd line despite constant criticism from the media & Demonlanders.