Jack Viney Restricted Free Agent

[old55 22,775]

I'm guessing the reason the contract hasn't been inked is because we are chasing other high cost player(s). The term and $s are likely agreed but the FD may want the flexibility of backloading if they can land the fish or forward loading if they can't.

[george_on_the_outer 7,427]

9 hours ago, A F said:

This is quite right. I'm happy to concede I don't know enough about the facts to make an accurate assessment.

This was for 2019:

https://www.aflonline.com.au/afl-news/what-is-the-average-salary-of-an-afl-player/

"The average salary of an AFL player currently sits at a comfortable $362,471 annually, with Sydney Swans superstar Lance Franklin understood to be the highest paid player pulling in around $1.3 million per year".

Simply divide the salary cap by the number of players on the list. 

[Half forward flank 1,022]

10 hours ago, A F said:

Well, hang on. You're imposing what you think he's worth. What happens if the club took the view that it doesn't see him as "one of our best players"? 

Jake Lever may have been worth say $650k a couple of years ago, in order to get him to change clubs. He's a good player, but if we want to keep building our list, his next contract should be worth less (unless AFL wage inflation brings it in line with his last contract by then).

Likewise, Jack's last contract, might have been $650k, when he was one of our best midfielders and a captain or soon to be, captain of the club. But value shifts all the time. If you are a leader, I would expect you to take what is in line with similar players of similar worth. And the point I'm also making is that it's not like these guys are going to be destitute at the end of this tax year.

I find myself agreeing with you a lot lately AF. levers next contract should reflect him being a good AFL backman at market rate. i also think he would be appreciated more. Anyone paid more than market rate in any industry ultimately feels the heat and in this case wrath of supporters. Jack is a beauty but not a Star.

[Moonshadow 17,471]

10 hours ago, A F said:

No, that's all fair from an argument standpoint mate.

I'm not an AFL footballer, but I do know the wage of a relatively senior footballer and it's not as high as $365k, even when you factor in match payments. So where have you got that average player wage from? I'm not disagreeing with you, I'm just asking, because my understanding is that the average player wage would be a lot lower than some think. It's still far higher than the median or average wage of Australians though, which is the point I've been making.

Still, you're right, it's not apples with apples, but if he's been offered $300k or more, that is considerably higher or at the least in line with many middle rung FIRE employees, and FIRE are the three industries that basically prop up our GDP, so the top earners.

Anyway, perhaps I'm getting dragged into the microeconomics of Australian society and I should simply concede.

This is quite right. I'm happy to concede I don't know enough about the facts to make an accurate assessment.

I googled "average afl player wage 2020". 

There will be plenty below that, but an ex capt, b&f winner in the prime of his career would get about double that IMO. You and I might hope for less, but that's the reality. Unless we let him go as a FA and pay a 1st rounder $105k. I googled that too!

[Half forward flank 1,022]

1 hour ago, Moonshadow said:

I googled "average afl player wage 2020". 

There will be plenty below that, but an ex capt, b&f winner in the prime of his career would get about double that IMO. You and I might hope for less, but that's the reality. Unless we let him go as a FA and pay a 1st rounder $105k. I googled that too!

I would not have a bar of paying him double the average wage. Good AFL playe Jack has been overated for his all round football ability from before he even arrived at the Dees.  Would he get a game with Port?

[homsar 416]

Median wage would be a lot more useful for this discussion than average. No idea how to find that!

[pitmaster 3,443]

20 hours ago, A F said:

I get that the game is a job for players, but I don't like hearing that a guy with so much history tied to the club has basically refused to take unders (which is still likely to be way above the top tax bracket - surely he was offered $300-400k) in order to secure his signature.

I know McCartney was big on instilling a culture of guys taking unders, so that the club could manage its list better and keep the core together. Geelong do this and Hawthorn did this for years.

If true, I don't like it and to me that's not leadership at all.

Not according to Don Scott.

But Geelong yes, and I hope we emulate their model.

[Adam The God 29,327]

40 minutes ago, pitmaster said:

Not according to Don Scott.

But Geelong yes, and I hope we emulate their model.

I meant Hawthorn during Clarkson's super team era, not the 80s/90s.

[dl4e 5,843]

8 hours ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

While I will back the club and Jack going forward just not sure what it means for Brayshaw. 

We have re-signed Sparrow and will likely re-sign a few other mids (Jordon, AvB) who will be competing with established mids for game time.  So quite possibly an established mid will be traded and fear it will be Brayshaw being seen as 'excess to our needs' or he gets more midfield time elsewhere.  Less worrying it could be Harmes, or both. 

We would be mad to get rid of Brayshaw.

[binman 41,943]

43 minutes ago, dl4e said:

We would be mad to get rid of Brayshaw.

Assuming we keep viney (who is much  much more consistent) trading brayshaw is on the cards. As it should be.

Im probably in a minority but this period is my least favourite part of the year ie straight after the season and prior to official trading. So much gossip and palaver. And I dislike our players being shopped, bagged etc etc. I get invested in them.

But putting my trading hat on we have too many inside mids in our best 22. With more in the wings in Jordan and Sparrow.

If viney stays Brayshaw is the logical bloke to trade. His only top shelf footy is in the middle and there are two ahead of him, three if you include viney.

And perhaps as important  outside trac, Maxy and Oliver he is the only player at the dees with any decent trade value whatsoever. Who else gets us say a first round draft pick? A team like the suns or even the blues would love another good inside mid.

 

 

 

[Red and Blue realist 2,026]

7 minutes ago, binman said:

Assuming we keep viney (who is much  much more consistent) trading brayshaw is on the cards. As it should be.

Im probably in a minority but this period is my least favourite part of the year ie straight after the season and prior to official trading. So much gossip and palaver. And I dislike our players being shopped, bagged etc etc. I get invested in them.

But putting my trading hat on we have too many inside mids in our best 22. With more in the wings in Jordan and Sparrow.

If viney stays Brayshaw is the logical bloke to trade. His only top shelf footy is in the middle and there are two ahead of him, three if you include viney.

And perhaps as important  outside trac, Maxy and Oliver he is the only player at the dees with any decent trade value whatsoever. Who else gets us say a first round draft pick? A team like the suns or even the blues would love another good inside mid.

 

 

 

I don't think we need to trade any of the mids, unless we got an unbelievable offer. It's been said before that it can take around 100 games together for a team to real gel, and if you look at Gus, Viney, Trac, Oliver and Harmes they've all played around that 100 game mark, so my hope is they start to click a lot better about who's turn it is to go and who has to defend/drop back a bit. Sometimes you'll get a Selwood or a Judd who happen to come into a team and be that missing piece but often guys are still figuring out their own game, let alone knowing the best team game might mean they aren't playing the best individual game. 

[Lucifers Hero 38,968]

An interesting update by Sam Edmund this morning:  sam-edmunds-trade-and-free-agency-update

“... the Cats have at least touched base here but they were a bit apart on money...

“Melbourne thought their first offer was reasonable but then the Viney camp went way above what Melbourne thought was fair.

“There’s been a bit of back and forth but I’m hearing they’re just about there (on a new contract).”

Did Jack get a reality check on his market value from Geelong?  We will never know.  But it is well known Geelong never pay overs.  Hope we haven't.

Edited October 2, 2020 by Lucifer's Hero

[old55 22,775]

3 hours ago, Red and Blue realist said:

I don't think we need to trade any of the mids, unless we got an unbelievable offer. It's been said before that it can take around 100 games together for a team to real gel, and if you look at Gus, Viney, Trac, Oliver and Harmes they've all played around that 100 game mark, so my hope is they start to click a lot better about who's turn it is to go and who has to defend/drop back a bit. Sometimes you'll get a Selwood or a Judd who happen to come into a team and be that missing piece but often guys are still figuring out their own game, let alone knowing the best team game might mean they aren't playing the best individual game. 

I think there's one too many there, particularly with giving Sparrow 2 years and chasing wingers.  Brayshaw or Harmes traded if Viney re-signs IMO.

[WERRIDEE 5,346]

Brayshaw and Harmes are better off on our list. Trade Preuss and Neal-Bullen and hopefully we can gain Brown, Polec and Ronke (worthwhile investment for nothing).

[Kent 2,859]

11 minutes ago, WERRIDEE said:

Brayshaw and Harmes are better off on our list. Trade Preuss and Neal-Bullen and hopefully we can gain Brown, Polec and Ronke (worthwhile investment for nothing).

Why are we better without those two

My view is you clear  Viney who adds very little  other than contributing to our midfield congestion

If his name wasn't Viney he may not be on our list Has learned nothing over his time at the dees move on!

my view is you keep Harmes and play him in the middle

 

             

[WERRIDEE 5,346]

1 minute ago, Kent said:

Why are we better without those two

My view is you clear  Viney who adds very little  other than contributing to our midfield congestion

If his name wasn't Viney he may not be on our list Has learned nothing over his time at the dees move on!

my view is you keep Harmes and play him in the middle

 

             

I said we are better off ON our list. Midfield depth is important I agree that the experiment is over Harmes back to the midfield but I disagree with Viney he is better than you think heart and soul.

[Kent 2,859]

1 minute ago, WERRIDEE said:

I said we are better off ON our list. Midfield depth is important I agree that the experiment is over Harmes back to the midfield but I disagree with Viney he is better than you think heart and soul.

Sorry mate apologies

Viney will be better at another club who need a bullock

[xman97 108]

19 hours ago, A F said:

No, that's all fair from an argument standpoint mate.

I'm not an AFL footballer, but I do know the wage of a relatively senior footballer and it's not as high as $365k, even when you factor in match payments. So where have you got that average player wage from? I'm not disagreeing with you, I'm just asking, because my understanding is that the average player wage would be a lot lower than some think. It's still far higher than the median or average wage of Australians though, which is the point I've been making.

Still, you're right, it's not apples with apples, but if he's been offered $300k or more, that is considerably higher or at the least in line with many middle rung FIRE employees, and FIRE are the three industries that basically prop up our GDP, so the top earners.

Anyway, perhaps I'm getting dragged into the microeconomics of Australian society and I should simply concede.

This is quite right. I'm happy to concede I don't know enough about the facts to make an accurate assessment.

Here's a copy & paste from the CBA on the TPP.

 

Schedule B – Total Player Payments and Benefits

1.        Total Player Payments

The Total Player Payments for each AFL Club will be as follows:

 

Year	2017	2018	2019	2020	2021	2022
TPP Limit	12,445,028	12,594,368	12,758,095	13,013,257	13,273,522	13,538,993

[Moonshadow 17,471]

7 hours ago, Half forward flank said:

I would not have a bar of paying him double the average wage. Good AFL playe Jack has been overated for his all round football ability from before he even arrived at the Dees.  Would he get a game with Port?

That's your opinion, but I doubt it's the opinion of the wider afl industry.

The answer to your question is emphatically 'yes'.

[xman97 108]

7 hours ago, Half forward flank said:

I would not have a bar of paying him double the average wage. Good AFL playe Jack has been overated for his all round football ability from before he even arrived at the Dees.  Would he get a game with Port?

I can't find the data for 2020 or 2019, but in 2018 there was 101 players in the AFL paid more than $600,000. Considering the TPP increases every year, in 2020 it would be about 110 players. You cannot sit here and say Viney isn't in the top 110 players in the AFL. 

[Half forward flank 1,022]

20 minutes ago, xman97 said:

I can't find the data for 2020 or 2019, but in 2018 there was 101 players in the AFL paid more than $600,000. Considering the TPP increases every year, in 2020 it would be about 110 players. You cannot sit here and say Viney isn't in the top 110 players in the AFL. 

On average and we are talking averages that means say, the six top players in each Club. Over to you, I am going to sit dowm.

[Half forward flank 1,022]

33 minutes ago, Moonshadow said:

That's your opinion, but I doubt it's the opinion of the wider afl industry.

The answer to your question is emphatically 'yes'.

Interesting benchmark you are setting What does that make Petracca and Oliver worth?

[spirit of norm smith 15,107]

Can’t believe the ridiculous view that we are better off without Viney. Ridiculous. 

Heart and soul.  Competitor.  

B&F results show his year on year performances.  Only year he wasn’t in top 3 was when he was injured.  
 

In watching the finals, Viney is the TYPE YOU WANT PLAYING IN YOUR TEAM. 
 

SIGN HIM UP.  A DEMON FOR LIFE. 4 YEAR DEAL GETS IT DONE. 

[Bring-Back-Powell 14,343]

I hope we’re not breaking the bank in re-signing Jack.

We need to put some many aside to retain Fritsch.

He’ll kick 35 goals next year and was probably in the top 6 or 7 in the league in terms of shots on goal this year.

[Ethan Tremblay 29,972]

13 minutes ago, Bring-Back-Powell said:

I hope we’re not breaking the bank in re-signing Jack.

We need to put some many aside to retain Fritsch.

He’ll kick 35 goals next year and was probably in the top 6 or 7 in the league in terms of shots on goal this year.

Fritz is currently OOC, it was reported a while ago that he was expected to sign a two year contract.