Garry Lyon: "Melbourne Supporters are Gutted"

[dazzledavey36 52,641]

Garry and Tim did a bit of an analysis on the club this morning. Please listen to the link below everything they have said pretty much sums it up and are spot on. Garry did hit the nail on the head when he said that Melbourne supporters aren't frustrated, but more so just gutted now. Reading some of the comments on here, I get that same general feeling also.

https://www.sen.com.au/news/2020/07/05/melbourne-supporters-gutted-by-teams-inability-to-kick-lyon/

 

[pitmaster 3,426]

Spot on. 

One more thing which isn't about skill but is about concentration.

Rushed kicks into our forward 50 that land in a no-man's-land space are always marked, if marked at all, by the opposition.

This happened repeatedly against Richmond where those under pressure, looping kicks found space it was always a Tiger running into it to mark.

What I wonder are our forwards taught about concentration and anticipating the flight? They are constantly behind their opponents, by a couple of metres.

[Older demon 2,663]

Thanks for posting. Derm has lit the fire as well with a brutal but honest assessment late last night. I cannot fault any of the criticism. I hope this week the media finally puts the heat on MFC because so far we have got off lightly. However the team are in Sydney and distant from the white noise and no-one cares as we become more irrelevant. Same old same old

[buck_nekkid 5,818]

A bit of heat on them would be good.  The irrelevant club has slid under the radar a bit too long.  No excuses, just exposure now.  Let’s see the response.  To hell and back?  My [censored].  No ‘back’ to be seen.  Big statement by the club and players needed.  Not ‘it’s disappointing’ and ‘we are working on it’.  Enough.

[BW511 2,564]

I think most of the media didn't want to go too hard last year in case the injuries and interrupted preseason turned out to be the real issue. Now that we are continuing to show that is not the case, it will and should be open slather. 

[Fatmanblues883 42]

I'm past frustrated Goody - I am depressed about our club

Another game of more inside 50's - another game of losing - whatever you are teaching the players, clearly isn't working

[Sir Why You Little 36,569]

Can’t argue with any of that myself. 
Will Goodwin change anything or will the side just continue to play at high speed, badly. 
 

Goodwin will be gone if he keeps the same systems going. He has had more than enough warnings that it isn’t working 

[Cards13 9,117]

I'm planning on watching Super Rugby this weekend, I find I enjoy that a lot more than watching the trash we dish up.

[spirit of norm smith 15,035]

Thanks Demonland for posting.  This is what we have been screaming out for years. We win the contested footy against virtually every time. Only the Lions beat us last year in contested footy.
 

But our football skills - kicking and handball are shocking. And the overhandballing is as bad. Often to a teammate under more pressure. 

[dl4e 5,842]

Yesterdays result showed the simple result of what we are as a footy side. Stupid.

[Demon3 2,541]

Garry is spot on and is talking on behalf of most supporters i reckon. I have had a gutful of this clubs ability to disappoint. Last year i thought it was worrying but was prepared to say injuries and one of those years.. how silly was i. 2018 was as close as qwe will get to success.. at least for teh next 5-10 years because unbelivebaly we need to turn our list over again. we need to recruit some skill. Langdon now in hindsight is a bust, he simply cant kick, is a shocking handball. Great runner, but whats teh point of that.. Tomlinson has not one great asset. In fact yesterday he was horrible.. Im a Hunt fan but he was timid yesterday (which he isnt at all) and he cant kick. I am Jack Vineys biggest fan, i love his competitive b=nature, but facts are he cant kick.  Oliver is a jet, but is putting players in difficult spots with his gung ho handball approach and i noticed yesterday is often behind his opponent, to me thats complacency. Angus can kick but he has no care on his disposal.. never looks like he knows where its going. James Harmes is a good kick of teh footy, but what is his role in teh side at the moment?

Tom Mc has regressed, Salem has Regressed, Hibbo has regressed (although thought he was great yesterday) Smith is not a natural footballer.. so why would you have him in the backline.. put him forward and tell him to go for teh ball.. Lever is a bust like no other recent trade.. horrible. Melksham is a selfish jerk who is getting away with murder at the moment. Goodwin says they wanta small fwd line.. well he has mental midgets playing up there so he has achieved that. 

 

I could go ona nd on.. but im at tipping point in terms of frustratuion. How can Goodwin sit there every week now for a seasona nd a half saying our "connection" going fwd is no good and not fix it. Dont recruit guys that cant kick for starters. The season is a write off. I would now get games into Swallow and Jordan and Bennell.. something ahs to change. Also how can 6 coaches sit in teh box yesterday and not change a dame thing at half time.. Out of their depth and completely devoid of plans.. 

Like all of us, i will front up next week and hope things b=are better, but we sat through some awful times recently, but at least then our excuse was that we had about 2 good players and a shocking list.. we have some reak quality players and they are being wasted and it kills me.  

[tiers 2,797]

Good kicking to advantage is a function of both the kicker and receiver.

If the kicker can't kick reliably well to advantage, that's bad enough. If the receivers can't, or won't, run to receive to advantage, then that's worse. When both kicker and receiver don't play the game as they should, then you get the dees.

Jesse knew how to receive but we couldn't deliver. No wonder he got frustrated and wanted to leave. Same with Jack Watts. How often was he stranded on a lead. Too often for the good of our team. They were two natural forwards who knew where to run to receive and could convert but they were ignored and we lost the opportunity to score and have success.

The writing has been on the wall for years - how many times can we have many more forwards entries and still be outscored and lose? And nothing changes. The time to fix it is NOW. If its too expensive to replace Goodwon, then get better assistants who can help.

But just do something. Resurrecting kanga might be a good starting point.

[deebug 1,754]

Spot on about everthing.

Just becase it says we are an AFL club, dosn't mean we are.

[Demon3 2,541]

St Kilda employ a good fwd to help thier forward structure.. oook what happens... Brad Miller is in charge of fwd line at GWS.. really good converting side.. just 2 examples.. who doe sthat for us.. again.. another example of the clubs unprofessional approach to things. 

[jumbo returns 6,703]

Footy 2020 really sucks

[Bay Riffin 1,454]

summed up perfectly at the end. and this is what is killing us.

 

"We are a bad bad kicking team".

[Little Richard 6,211]

Sadly extremely accurate. We are a horrid kicking team, so why are two of our best kicks/decision makers in Jetta and Bennell not playing? Ridiculous.

Still find it hard to listen to Lyon though and him continually trying to cut off Watson was so annoying.

Edited July 6, 2020 by Luther

[Redleg 39,937]

I have been banging on about our poor disposal skill for years and to be honest was surprised we made a Prelim in 18.I didn't see it coming and we got there with chaos footy and a hard competitive edge. That is not the game now. Sides have us worked out ala the Cats last week. We have been beaten the last two weeks by sides who played well below their best, but they know they will get the ball from us in addition to what they get themselves and it will be enough to kick a winning score.

We targeted the contested beast in recruiting and ignored the quick skillful player and in today's game style it is what is killing us.

The stats show we get the ball quite well and are also the best in the AFL at giving it away.

Viney turned it over nearly every one of his 18 possessions yesterday and it was probably the worst disposal game I think I have ever seen. That from a guy who works so hard to compete and get the ball. He is the perfect example of a hard nut without AFL level disposal skill.

We gift other sides goals like no other.  That is why we lose. 

Fix our disposal and we are ok. That probably means trying other players on our list  who may not be ready, or recruiting them over the next year or two.

Last, the Coach insists on a quick turnover game and with poor skill and a small forward line that can't be done and needs to change.

[DeeZone 8,908]

When Clayton turned over that. Ball when we were 16 points down and running forward I yelled so loudly I scared the grandkids. Gutted is a very apt description of how my whole family felt. Time to try Sparrow Jordan, Brown, Oscar, ANB & Weid, maybe even LJ to give Max a chop out. Let’s see if they can kick and hit up a moving target.

Goody you have to DO, Not Think, Do!!!!

[drdrake 3,114]

8 minutes ago, Demon3 said:

St Kilda employ a good fwd to help thier forward structure.. oook what happens... Brad Miller is in charge of fwd line at GWS.. really good converting side.. just 2 examples.. who doe sthat for us.. again.. another example of the clubs unprofessional approach to things. 

We can't compare our forward line to St Kilda or GWS, they have genuine talls forwards and high quality small forwards. 

The reason why we over handball is that is were our free players are, we push so many players to the contest with in 3-5m that when we get the ball the kick option is 3-4 opposition player sitting back waiting.  This is our number 1 issue our game plan that was a carry on from Roos is to get players around the contest.  We essentially don't play HFF's they push into the midfield, that leaves 2 defenders just sitting back waiting for the kick into our forward 50m arc.  We need to maintain the ball until our players push from the contest forward, unfortunately we aren't good enough to maintain the ball we turn it over and our opponent has loose players everywhere as our guys are working hard forward to be an option, the opposition just holds a zone and waits for us to turn the ball over.

Simple solution, have your forward 6 maintain position at least make it a contest when we go inside our forward 50m arc.  Make teams beat you in your midfield and not beat you attacking of their Half Back Line.

Every team knows the game we are going to play and are happy to let us do this as they know they can attack with speed of Half back.

The last quarter the first 4 minutes, 3 intercept marks to Richmond in our forward 50m arc.  When we are outnumbered like we are Richmond used the spare players to block and protect.  The one's that frustrated me though was when we would win the centre clearance and our forwards were so far behind their opponent, the opposition should never take a uncontested mark inside you 50m arc after a centre clearance.

Goodwin has a choice, keep playing the same way or make a change, I can't believe he didn't change our game style after 2019.  It worked in 2018 because TMac was grabbing everything or at least bringing it to ground, add in Weidermans 4-5 game cameo we looked like a million dollars as our tall forwards were creating a contest.  This hasn't happened in 18 months and the fact we don't play 2 tall forwards with the game style we play is a massive selection error.

We play mid size forwards for run and defensive pressure, they offer little of both.  At least Pickett has show he is willing to chase hard to put pressure on.

If we don't maintain our 6 forwards nothing will change.

 

[Demon_spurs 1,809]

I saw instances yesterday of players running into the 50m arc and ignoring the easy handball off side ways (which would have put them 10 -15 m closer to goal, instead looking for the clever Hollywood foot pass, which the inevitably finished up with an opposition mark. They try and be too cute inside 50 instead of taking the easier and less spectacular option. I think there are few egos in the team that need a real good hard look at themselves.

[Accepting Mediocrity 1,418]

I had a good chuckle at a comment on MFC's Instagram post yesterday:

"You've legitimately diminished my quality of life for 31 years. I hope you know that."

Summed it up perfectly!

 

[bush demon 1,989]

1 hour ago, tiers said:

Good kicking to advantage is a function of both the kicker and receiver.

If the kicker can't kick reliably well to advantage, that's bad enough. If the receivers can't, or won't, run to receive to advantage, then that's worse. When both kicker and receiver don't play the game as they should, then you get the dees.

Jesse knew how to receive but we couldn't deliver. No wonder he got frustrated and wanted to leave. Same with Jack Watts. How often was he stranded on a lead. Too often for the good of our team. They were two natural forwards who knew where to run to receive and could convert but they were ignored and we lost the opportunity to score and have success.

The writing has been on the wall for years - how many times can we have many more forwards entries and still be outscored and lose? And nothing changes. The time to fix it is NOW. If its too expensive to replace Goodwon, then get better assistants who can help.

But just do something. Resurrecting kanga might be a good starting point.

Jack Watts would endlessly lead into space and endlessly be ignored, bombing high into a contested situation being the preferred option.

[DeeZee 7,296]

No skill, no composure no forward line.

 

[binman 41,906]

27 minutes ago, Redleg said:

I have been banging on about our poor disposal skill for years and to be honest was surprised we made a Prelim in 18.I didn't see it coming and we got there with chaos footy and a hard competitive edge. That is not the game now. Sides have us worked out ala the Cats last week. We have been beaten the last two weeks by sides who played well below their best, but they know they will get the ball from us in addition to what they get themselves and it will be enough to kick a winning score.

We targeted the contested beast in recruiting and ignored the quick skillful player and in today's game style it is what is killing us.

The stats show we get the ball quite well and are also the best in the AFL at giving it away.

Viney turned it over nearly every one of his 18 possessions yesterday and it was probably the worst disposal game I think I have ever seen. That from a guy who works so hard to compete and get the ball. He is the perfect example of a hard nut without AFL level disposal skill.

We gift other sides goals like no other.  That is why we lose. 

Fix our disposal and we are ok. That probably means trying other players on our list  who may not be ready, or recruiting them over the next year or two.

Last, the Coach insists on a quick turnover game and with poor skill and a small forward line that can't be done and needs to change.

I have a confession. I am not Garry Baker. I am Gary Lyon.

And I'm also redleg.

At least I think I am as I could have written this post and spoke the words Gary is quoted as saying.

Both spot on x 1000.

Red you make a very good point about our game plan. We had a window when that ballistic style could work for us.

But since 2018 the use of zones has accelaterated and now clog up the ground in a way that makes every kick forward a challenge because your targets are always outnumbered (by the by the 666 rule was supposed to address this - and has failed) - which is the key reason scores are so low.

(The zones and ability for teams that run hard to get back have also almost eliminated our coast to coast goals we got so many off in 2018. And the zones also punish turnovers )

This kick forward requires skill.

To escape the zone teams have to work the ball back and across the ground and stretch the opposition. And eventually hit an attacking kick and then the next one inside 50.

These kicks are often under no pressure, but still require skill, even if if kicking to a free man as long kicks (eg crosses to the dat side) need to be low and flat, some need to be kicked between players onto pockets of space, some need to be sideways and when they finally bite the bullet, for example a kick to the corridor, they need to be fast and accurate. 

We simply do not have players with those skills. And as Tim Watson said there is no easy fix.

Richmond have a similar, though not identical, game plan. The difference is they have players like cotchin, houli, Martin, constagania and rioli who are all elite kicks. And most of their list is at least average standard. And most important of all they have few absolute butchers.