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samcantstandya

List changes who do we cut, trade or go after.

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12 minutes ago, A F said:

Disagree, but hope you're right mate.

The Wagner's won't make it desperately need Elliott.

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2 hours ago, DeeSpencer said:

He's been about as close to terrible as a slow limited player who doesn't hit his targets (despite being a very good kick) can be.

To me the only way to see the positives in retaining Josh Wagner is to think of him as a leader down at Casey and to recognise the club is valuing experience on the list and culture.

List clogger.

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10 hours ago, Red and Blue realist said:

Spot on, but had they made massive wholesale changes to their playing personnel would they have been able to make those other adjustments? It's A lot easier to make game plan changes when the team are already very familiar with each other.

Yet the complete reverse happened this year R&B, with very little cohesion / understanding as a team as there was clearly not enough time spent on the track by enough players at the same time due to injury etc, nailing whatever it was Goody intended.

This trade period was an ideal opportunity to make significant change and clean out a very ordinary list devoid of genuine forward talent, outside speed & finish and over stacked with too many see ball get ball plodding mids.  Very few of who can hit the barn side of a door, one of whom is now on the verge of retirement.

It doesn"t take seasons of playing together to become a very good team imv.  A premiership team yes but we are a mile off that atm.  But to make finals you do need the right mix of quality seniors, mature age players with decent experience in the middle, a few quality rookies, very good depth and one very good pre-season with minimal injuries throughout the year (always helps!).

Ideal opp to bring in a few more fresh faces with a bit more quality, especially speed and foot skills.  The likes of ANB, O-Mac and Jwag aren't the sort of depth that will make a difference on most game days when the injuries hit us at some point.  Then there's the huge question mark over AVB.

MFC has again missed the boat of opportunity.  This was the time to be bold and aggressive and we seem to have sat back on our laurels once more, with the exception of a bit of tinkering between the arcs on the outside assuming Langdon & Tomlinson are in.  Neither appear to offer any great change on the speed and finish front so i'm not sure we acheive much at all with those ins, other than a bit of extra depth and hopefully making it harder for some of those we shouldn't have re-signed to break in to the 22.

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Outs.  

Lewis TSmith Maynard (retired). Garlett Keilty delisted. Walker cat B retired  

Unknowns 

Frost out of contract.  Not looking good. Hope he stays. 

JKH - definitely trade opportunity or delist; perhaps Freo could deal in as part of Langdon trade 

Stretch - definitely trade opportunity or delist ; Crows would be best option imo  

likely to be 5-6 spots available 

trade/free agency 2-3 brought in 

National draft - 3 youngsters brought in

not sure we took the chance to reload  

 

 

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52 minutes ago, Rusty Nails said:

Yet the complete reverse happened this year R&B, with very little cohesion / understanding as a team as there was clearly not enough time spent on the track by enough players at the same time due to injury etc, nailing whatever it was Goody intended.

This trade period was an ideal opportunity to make significant change and clean out a very ordinary list devoid of genuine forward talent, outside speed & finish and over stacked with too many see ball get ball plodding mids.  Very few of who can hit the barn side of a door, one of whom is now on the verge of retirement.

It doesn"t take seasons of playing together to become a very good team imv.  A premiership team yes but we are a mile off that atm.  But to make finals you do need the right mix of quality seniors, mature age players with decent experience in the middle, a few quality rookies, very good depth and one very good pre-season with minimal injuries throughout the year (always helps!).

Ideal opp to bring in a few more fresh faces with a bit more quality, especially speed and foot skills.  The likes of ANB, O-Mac and Jwag aren't the sort of depth that will make a difference on most game days when the injuries hit us at some point.  Then there's the huge question mark over AVB.

MFC has again missed the boat of opportunity.  This was the time to be bold and aggressive and we seem to have sat back on our laurels once more, with the exception of a bit of tinkering between the arcs on the outside assuming Langdon & Tomlinson are in.  Neither appear to offer any great change on the speed and finish front so i'm not sure we acheive much at all with those ins, other than a bit of extra depth and hopefully making it harder for some of those we shouldn't have re-signed to break in to the 22.

@Rusty Nails - give us a list of whom should be traded in. Then let me know if those players would want to leave their respective clubs and or want to come to the Dees mate?

Resting on Laurels? I feel that comment is unfair.

 At the midway mark of the season, they delisted a range of coaches, and fitness staff. 

With respect to your 'past tense' "this trade period was" - it's still active mate...and you and I both have no idea what is happening with conversations...  Methinks your pessimism is getting in the way of being objective this particular morning.

Edited by Engorged Onion
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This trade period has me intrigued. It will be interesting in who comes in and who departs. I am in 2 minds.....did we over achieve in 2018 or is this year just a combination of bad luck, bad coaching etc (yes all coaches still have learning curves especially when they are new to the job). I know for sure I won’t be making a judgment on our trade period till the dust has settled.

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29 minutes ago, Engorged Onion said:

@Rusty Nails - give us a list of whom should be traded in. Then let me know if those players would want to leave their respective clubs and or want to come to the Dees mate?

Resting on Laurels? I feel that comment is unfair.

 At the midway mark of the season, they delisted a range of coaches, and fitness staff. 

With respect to your 'past tense' "this trade period was" - it's still active mate...and you and I both have no idea what is happening with conversations...  Methinks your pessimism is getting in the way of being objective this particular morning.

Changes to the coaching FD have nothing to do with the state of the list EO.  Not.sure why you would bring that up.  

We can't bring that many in if we aren't delisting many.

After this year's disaster i have no doubt Mahoney and Co. are going to struggle somewhat at the  trade table and i don't envy them.  We are hardly a destination club at the mo.  Even the lowly Saints & Blues appear to have surpassed us on that front.

If we get Langdon, Tomlinson and one other B- (or thereabouts) in, had we delisted O-Mac, Jwags and ANB then, if needed and we can't find replacements via trade, we could have topped up with speed / skill via the draft.  Also, according to many scribes, we just lost pick 2 as well.  We are effectively lower than the lowly GC sons.  Beggars can't be choosers EO.

Only my opp but as long as we have the likes of the three above on our list, this club will struggle to get beyond the odd random finals appearance (at best).

P.S. totally in agreement re my pessimism vs yours!  I admire your positive outlook and anyone else's on D'land.  All power to you guys if you see things differently.  Just calling it as i see things and my trade / draft knowledge is very ordinary indeed.

Edited by Rusty Nails
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21 minutes ago, Frustrated Demon said:

This trade period has me intrigued. It will be interesting in who comes in and who departs. I am in 2 minds.....did we over achieve in 2018 or is this year just a combination of bad luck, bad coaching etc (yes all coaches still have learning curves especially when they are new to the job). I know for sure I won’t be making a judgment on our trade period till the dust has settled.

I agree. My thoughts are we were flattered by our final month of footy that lifted us from just scraping into finals (where I’d rate us) to being in the Prelim and over achieving...  This year is part as a result of that final month, we got ahead of our selves, believed the hype plus got hit with the challenge of what going deep into September does to you following year, an experience few players and coaches had previously dealt with.

My guess for next year is 8-5 but with a favourable draw we could go higher (aka Brisbane). 

Interesting to see how they recruit, as if we have finals expectations we are topping up with readymade and tactical acquisitions to try to complete the puzzle.

Edited by PaulRB

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Baffled by the Wagner brothers and ANB signings mainly because they are depth; a type of depth we have plenty of. 

imv depth players for 2020:

  • Can do occasional cameo: Spargo, Jones, O'Mac. 
  • Untested at AFL level:  Bedford, Jordon, Nietschke, (Rookies:  Dunkley, Chandler, Lockhart)
  • Serious injury cloud: AvB, KK, Smith.
  • VFL+ level:  ANB, J Wagner, C Wagner

Bolded names are a quarter of our Senior list!.

Our depth just isn't very good.  Even the next tier up has question marks:  Hannan (injury recovery), Preuss, Sparrow, Baker, Weideman, Hore

Hopefully, some of the youngsters will come good but they are several years off being regular 22. 

Adding Tomlinson, Langdon and maybe Elliot will certainly help our list.  But they are just displacing players that were depth at best and were not bona fide best 22.  New draftees won't help much in the short term. 

Based on the recruits we know so far, we will be relying on the injury Gods to field a high quality team each week in 2020. 

I just hope the club has some surprise trades yet to be announced.

Edited by Lucifer's Hero
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6 minutes ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

Baffled by the Wagner brothers and ANB signings mainly because they are depth; a type of depth we have plenty of. 

imv depth players for 2020:

  • Can do occasional cameo: Spargo, Jones, O'Mac. 
  • Untested at AFL level:  Bedford, Jordon, Nietschke, (Rookies:  Dunkley, Chandler, Lockhart)
  • Serious injury cloud: AvB, KK, Smith.
  • VFL+ level:  ANB, J Wagner, C Wagner

Bolded names are a quarter of our Senior list!.

Our depth just isn't very good.  Even the next tier up has question marks:  Hannan (injury recovery), Preuss, Sparrow, Baker, Weideman, Hore

Hopefully, some of the youngsters will come good but they are several years off being regular 22. 

Adding Tomlinson, Langdon and maybe Elliot will certainly help our list.  But they are just displacing players that were depth at best and were not bona fide best 22.  New draftees won't help much in the short term. 

Based on the recruits we know so far, we will be relying on the injury Gods to field a high quality team each week in 2020. 

I just hope the club has some surprise trades yet to be announced.

Great analysis. 

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New draftees won’t help.  I disagree. 

If we hold pick 2  - Rowell or Anderson are ready to go in 2020. Straight into our best 22.  

If Gcs get priority and we hold pick 3 - Lachlan Ash is ready to go on a wing or half back. 

I agree in getting Langdon and some free agents, but don’t discount draftee making an impact. 

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I have changed my opinion a little bit, i dont think we can delist 10 players : my thoughts on the re-signings

ANB: baffles me - must be turned into a run with player over summer

Joel Smith - Encouraging he re-signed - thought he was gone

Wagners - Josh at time has been handy and i like Corey's aggression.

Baker  / Lockhart / Dunk / Chandler - Time needed. no drams with re-signings.

 

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1 hour ago, spirit of norm smith said:

New draftees won’t help.  I disagree. 

If we hold pick 2  - Rowell or Anderson are ready to go in 2020. Straight into our best 22.  

If Gcs get priority and we hold pick 3 - Lachlan Ash is ready to go on a wing or half back. 

I agree in getting Langdon and some free agents, but don’t discount draftee making an impact. 

A very good draftee will certainly get games in 2020 as will other recent draftees.  Will he/they be the difference in winning/not winning games in 2020.  I don't think so.

As I said in earlier post, with what we currently know of list changes, we will be relying on the injury Gods to field a high quality team every week as our depth just isn't very good.

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Rumours that Pickett will play his first game in the GF, (great mid season draft choice by the Tigers if true), so Kamdyn McIntosh may be p-ssed on missing out.

If Elliott is not coming, which some are now saying, he would be a handy player for us.

I posted his credentials earlier and he could be a moderate price good get for us.

He is certainly better than most of our recent re signings.

Edited by Redleg
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7 hours ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

Baffled by the Wagner brothers and ANB signings mainly because they are depth; a type of depth we have plenty of. 

imv depth players for 2020:

  • Can do occasional cameo: Spargo, Jones, O'Mac. 
  • Untested at AFL level:  Bedford, Jordon, Nietschke, (Rookies:  Dunkley, Chandler, Lockhart)
  • Serious injury cloud: AvB, KK, Smith.
  • VFL+ level:  ANB, J Wagner, C Wagner

 

I agree, seems to me that for Josh Wagner to get a game as a back flanker we'll need a couple of injuries and for him to be preferred over shuffling other players to half back. He barely played this year with so many out injured!!

Same to be said for C. Wagner, if he's getting a game that means either we've run out of wingmen and half forwards or he's getting a game over Jones, Dunkley, Lockhart, ANB, Spargo etc.

I look at the tigers who had significant injuries this year and reshuffled senior players - Edwards at half back in particular - and then blooded kids in Ross and Stack. Then to add a cherry on top signed Pickett who will now debut.

If we have injuries next year that's exactly what I'd like us to do - throw the kids in and use senior players around them. We still ended up doing that to an extent this year when Dunkley got games out of position just to play him over journeymen types and that was with 10-15 on the injury list!

The Wagners or ANB or whoever you dislike worse from this bunch are guys 30-33 on the list as it stands, probably to become 34-35 if Langdon and Tomlinson sign. With preseason and midseason drafting it doesn't make sense to commit to so many limited players so soon.

I get the sense we have to be trading out some players to explain why we've hung on to so much depth.

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On 9/26/2019 at 6:32 AM, spirit of norm smith said:

Outs.  

Lewis TSmith Maynard (retired). Garlett Keilty delisted. Walker cat B retired  

Unknowns 

Frost out of contract.  Not looking good. Hope he stays. 

JKH - definitely trade opportunity or delist; perhaps Freo could deal in as part of Langdon trade 

Stretch - definitely trade opportunity or delist ; Crows would be best option imo  

likely to be 5-6 spots available 

trade/free agency 2-3 brought in 

National draft - 3 youngsters brought in

not sure we took the chance to reload  

 

 

Suns interest in Stretch.  He’d get more opportunities on the GC. 

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In the haze in which I dwell the two priorities seem to be

get the list balanced and be fit and competitive in 2020

The list: 

44-41: Chandler, Dunkley, Cwagner, Lockhardt

40-31: Draftee, Draftee, Draftee, Bedford, Neitchze, Jordan, Sparrow, Spargo, Jwagner, Baker

30-21: Hannan, ANB, Hunt, KK,, OMac, Petty, Weed, Preuss, Hore, Smith,

20-11: Jones, Hibberd, AVB, Jetta, Recruit (Frost CHB), Fritsch, Melksham, Viney, Harmes, Thomlinson 

10-1: Salem, Elliott, Langdon, May, Lever, Gus, Trac, Tmac, Oliver, Gawn

Outs: Lewis, Garlett, Maynard,  Stretch,  Frost, JKH, and one spare = 7

Ins: Langdon, Thomlinson, Elliott?, CHB?, Draftee Draftee Draftee = 7

22!

Jetta May Lever

Hibberd.  ???? Harmes

Langdon Gus Salem

Melksham  Thomlinson AVB

Elliott Tmac Fritsch

Gawn Oliver Trac

IC: Viney, Jones, Smith Hore

Seconds:

Neitshze OMac Jwagner

Kk Petty Jordan

Baker Sparrow Draftee

Hunt Draftee Hannan

Bedford Weed Draftee

Pruess ANB Spargo

IC: rookies

Better but competitive? The three draftees need to get in that best 22 quick and frostys replacement all need to gunslingers : 

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I'm wondering if the well-connected @Chook in Perth has any news on potential INs for 2020? 

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I’m pretty keen to get Levi Casboult on a 2 year deal. I think his football is getting better as he has got older. Great contested grab! Booming kick.

He gives great flexibility. Forward-Back-Max’s chop-out in the Ruck.

 

 

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11 hours ago, grey wolf said:

In the haze in which I dwell the two priorities seem to be

get the list balanced and be fit and competitive in 2020

The list: 

44-41: Chandler, Dunkley, Cwagner, Lockhardt

40-31: Draftee, Draftee, Draftee, Bedford, Neitchze, Jordan, Sparrow, Spargo, Jwagner, Baker

30-21: Hannan, ANB, Hunt, KK,, OMac, Petty, Weed, Preuss, Hore, Smith,

20-11: Jones, Hibberd, AVB, Jetta, Recruit (Frost CHB), Fritsch, Melksham, Viney, Harmes, Thomlinson 

10-1: Salem, Elliott, Langdon, May, Lever, Gus, Trac, Tmac, Oliver, Gawn

Outs: Lewis, Garlett, Maynard,  Stretch,  Frost, JKH, and one spare = 7

Ins: Langdon, Thomlinson, Elliott?, CHB?, Draftee Draftee Draftee = 7

22!

Jetta May Lever

Hibberd.  ???? Harmes

Langdon Gus Salem

Melksham  Thomlinson AVB

Elliott Tmac Fritsch

Gawn Oliver Trac

IC: Viney, Jones, Smith Hore

Seconds:

Neitshze OMac Jwagner

Kk Petty Jordan

Baker Sparrow Draftee

Hunt Draftee Hannan

Bedford Weed Draftee

Pruess ANB Spargo

IC: rookies

Better but competitive? The three draftees need to get in that best 22 quick and frostys replacement all need to gunslingers : 

Quick to get rid of Frost with no replacement.  

Keilty was delisted.  Tim Smith retired. Astute list management??

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B: JETTA, MAY, LEVER

HB: HIBBERD, FROST, SALEM

C : LANGDON, OLIVER, TOMLINSON 

HF: MELKSHAM, T.MCDONALD, PETRACCA

F: ELLIOT, WEIDEMAN, FRITSCH

FOLL: GAWN, VINEY, BRAYSHAW

IC: HARMES, JONES, ANDERSON, PETTY

EMERG: HUNT, VANDENBERG, HANNAN, J.SMITH

 

CASEY

B: NEITSCHKE, O.MCDONALD, JORDON

HB: J.WAGNER, HORE, KOLODJASHNIJ

C : HUNT, SPARROW, BAKER

HF: HANNAN, J.SMITH, NEAL-BULLEN

F: DRAFT PICK, BRADTKE, BEDFORD

FOLL: PREUSS, VANDENBERG, SPARGO

IC: C.WAGNER, LOCKHART, DUNKLEY, CHANDLER

EMERG: ROOKIE

 

I'm confident we will sign Frost. We will only need a 3rd draft pick if Elliot doesn't sign, I expect Tomlinson and Langdon to sign.

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1 hour ago, WERRIDEE said:

B: JETTA, MAY, LEVER

HB: HIBBERD, FROST, SALEM

C : LANGDON, OLIVER, TOMLINSON 

HF: MELKSHAM, T.MCDONALD, PETRACCA

F: ELLIOT, WEIDEMAN, FRITSCH

FOLL: GAWN, VINEY, BRAYSHAW

IC: HARMES, JONES, ANDERSON, PETTY

EMERG: HUNT, VANDENBERG, HANNAN, J.SMITH

 

CASEY

B: NEITSCHKE, O.MCDONALD, JORDON

HB: J.WAGNER, HORE, KOLODJASHNIJ

C : HUNT, SPARROW, BAKER

HF: HANNAN, J.SMITH, NEAL-BULLEN

F: DRAFT PICK, BRADTKE, BEDFORD

FOLL: PREUSS, VANDENBERG, SPARGO

IC: C.WAGNER, LOCKHART, DUNKLEY, CHANDLER

EMERG: ROOKIE

 

I'm confident we will sign Frost. We will only need a 3rd draft pick if Elliot doesn't sign, I expect Tomlinson and Langdon to sign.

Love the forward line.

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as a matter of interest, did chandler, c wagner, lockhart, dunkley re-sign as rookies? how does it work with the likes of dunkley, who was signed mid-year? does bradtke remain on the cat b rookie list?

presuming so, i think that means we currently have 3 vacancies on our senior list (lewis, maynard, garlett) and three on rookie list (tim smith, kielty, walker)

if we are able to pull off elliott and tomlinson as free agents, and swap what is likely to be pick 22 (after pointy end priority pick and points matching for green from gw$) for landgon, would we have no spots left on senior list?

who remains out of contract? stretch and jkh don't get new contracts, frost for north's second rounder (what will likely be pick 27)?

that'd leave us with three picks in the draft (say 3, 27, 40); do you have to use three, or is it just mandatory three changes to the list?

and either two or three (2, 20, possibly 38) in the rookie draft?

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14 minutes ago, whatwhatsaywhat said:

as a matter of interest, did chandler, c wagner, lockhart, dunkley re-sign as rookies? how does it work with the likes of dunkley, who was signed mid-year? does bradtke remain on the cat b rookie list?

presuming so, i think that means we currently have 3 vacancies on our senior list (lewis, maynard, garlett) and three on rookie list (tim smith, kielty, walker)

if we are able to pull off elliott and tomlinson as free agents, and swap what is likely to be pick 22 (after pointy end priority pick and points matching for green from gw$) for landgon, would we have no spots left on senior list?

who remains out of contract? stretch and jkh don't get new contracts, frost for north's second rounder (what will likely be pick 27)?

that'd leave us with three picks in the draft (say 3, 27, 40); do you have to use three, or is it just mandatory three changes to the list?

and either two or three (2, 20, possibly 38) in the rookie draft?

They all signed as rookies.

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    Two clubs that have been hard hit by injury recently took part in a dour battle under dark clouds and, with intermittent showers falling, it wasn’t a pretty game at Victoria Park on Sunday. Despite all that, the Casey Demons added a little ray of sunshine to their day to get the job done over a "traditional" rival with a 15 point victory over Collingwood VFL that breathed life back into their season. There were a few highlights at the ground that in past days has seen many titanic batt

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Casey Articles

    THE RETRO ROUND by George on the Outer

    We have seen it all before… Yes, a wonderful idea to showcase what used to be in football.  Big crowds, umpires who knew how to apply the rules and not opinions, high marks, skilful players. But for the Melbourne supporters their retro is what it has been like for the past 10 years. Losing games, end on end, year after year.  Opportunities squandered in front of goal. VFL standard players running around at the MCG. Just more of the same, and the game against Collingwood was no ex

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Reports

    THE PEOPLE SPEAK by The Demonland Crew

    Thanks to Demonlanders for their input into this week’s preview. Ralphius Maximus is short and bittersweet: We'll crack in at the bounce to create a contest, win our share of the ball, butcher the forward movement and get scored on easily from the intercepts. Not that hard to predict. Big Demon says: Unfortunately Collingwood will win because they have a lot more to play for. We will be good in parts but really the season is well over so we will have to put up with those bell

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Previews

    WHAT, NO BLOOD? by George on the Outer

    The feeling when turning up to the MCG on a Saturday night to play a top four side in Richmond, while the Melbourne sits cemented in close proximity to the bottom of the table is like attending the Colosseum in Ancient Roman times. The expectation is that a bloodbath is about to occur. There are 100,000 Richmond members and 50,000 Melbourne members, and despite the fact that it turned out to be a wet night after half-time, a crowd of only 37K bothered to turn up. That should never have happ

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Reports

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