CHANGES: Rd 20 vs Richmond

[Demon3 2,541]

1 hour ago, loges said:

Remind me again, how many games has Lever played this year?

What i will remind you of is that he cost us 2 first round picks, $800k a year and cant kick and cant play 1on1.  Now he has had 2 knee recos. 

He would want to improve because i can remember him playing 1 good game for us, in a match against Carlton where we won by 109 points. 

[Diamond_Jim 12,628]

2 hours ago, McQueen said:

Preuss played a great game. The ruck domination was only one aspect. He was mobile, clunking a lot of footy all over the ground and kicking long balls into the forwards. 

He responded to goodwins criticism is the best possible fashion and deserves to be recalled. I just hope he can carry the form into the firsts. 

Preuss has had many similar games at VFL level. The game against Essendon was a prime example.

Again in that game Essendon were missing their tall timber.

He needs a big change in game style to succeed at AFL level.

As a tap ruckman taking the occasional mark around the ground he's ok... (probably as good as half the others playing at AFL level) but that is not the role he needs to fill at AFL level.

I'm coming to realise as many have already said that he is merely insurance if Max goes down.

That being said I have no problem experimenting with him over the next 4/5 games given the absence of Weideman, Tom Mac and Tim Smith's lack of impact.

Edited July 29, 2019 by Diamond_Jim

[ArtificialWisdom 4,045]

Amazingly I feel in 5 games May has already become our most important player. 1 week without him we were immediately exposed. Assuming all are fit

In. May, Hore, Melk

Out. Omac, JWag, CWag

Although to make more of a statement, keep JWag in. Drop Brayshaw and have Hibbard move to the middle to tag Dusty again. One of the few things that's worked ok this year. Just a thought.

 

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

4 minutes ago, chook fowler said:

I'm not implying he needs to be dropped - i think Hore should come in for Wagner but some of his efforts looked half hearted and there some just plain lazy kicks. But i agree he needs time.

I wasn't implying you were implying that Chook!   Presently looks like a stick figure out there.  Might be lacking a little conditioning / hardening with all the time out.  I reckon he'll be fine if all goes well over the pre-season.  Onwards 2020!

 

[DubDee 26,123]

Kyle Dunkley 2 goals 13 kicks 7 handballs 20 disposals 4 marks 7 tackles 106 dream team points  
Marty Hore 15 kicks 5 handballs 20 disposals 6 marks 1 tackle 77 dream team points  
Jake Melksham 2 goals 1 behind 11 kicks 5 handballs 16 disposals 5 marks 5 tackles 85 dream team points  

Bring in these 3 and May if fit.

Drop O Mac, J Wag, Brayshaw, Lewis

time for a well overdue statement

Persist with Smith and Petty but if Preuss plays very well again bring him in.

[titan_uranus 25,045]

20 hours ago, Jaded said:

I don’t disagree and I particularly think it’s important for our backline as we know who our starting 6 are and they need to start getting to know one another. Their cohesion is key to us climbing up the ladder again. 

However the reality is we have 4 weeks left. 4 weeks in which we need to make decisions on players staring at delistings. We need to decide who we should try and offload and is surplus to our needs.

We also need to decide what to do about our badly underachieving midfield.

If he wasn’t in AA contention I would give Gawn the rest of the year off for a well deserved rest. I’d throw Preuss to the wolves so he knows what he needs to do in pre season if he wants to ever be good enough to tie Gawn’s shoelaces, let alone compete alongside him.

I would get Gus to go rediscover himself and start playing defensively. I’d give Viney an extra 4 weeks to rest up his broken body and send him to leadership training. I would play Salem on a wing.

I would play JHK where he plays at Casey, as an inside mid, and see if he can cut it with the big boys. I would try Oscar up forward to see if he has a chance of saving his career from total meltdown. 

Winning or losing is irrelevant. It would be nice to win sure, but it would be nicer to use the next 4 weeks to make tough list decisions that need to be made. 

It's an interesting debate.

I personally would maybe make one or two changes - I'm not against dropping Brayshaw, and I'm quite in favour of "resting" Viney (i.e. dropping him without having to say it).

I'm not sure about giving JKH another go - are we going to give him another contract based on 1-4 games at the end of a dead season?

I would, though, stop playing players who have no future - C Wagner looks to be one of those, I'm not sold on J Wagner, and I'm increasingly of the view that ANB now falls into this category. Would rather we keep putting games into Baker, Lockhart and Hore if we can.

4 hours ago, poita said:

The biggest problem with Lever is that he thinks he is a much better player than he actually is.

It would do his ego some good to spend some time in the VFL learning how to kick and defend his opponent.

And you know this how?

There's plenty of stuff to get stuck into about the club at the moment. Why do you feel the need to invent some extra tripe to go on top?

Lever's not playing well but maybe you could put that into some context, given his long-lay off and having only played four games this year (and the fact that he's only 23).

[loges 6,767]

5 hours ago, Demon3 said:

What i will remind you of is that he cost us 2 first round picks, $800k a year and cant kick and cant play 1on1.  Now he has had 2 knee recos. 

He would want to improve because i can remember him playing 1 good game for us, in a match against Carlton where we won by 109 points. 

All the more reason to come back conservatively. How do you reckon you'd go about 3 games back from 12 month lay off for a knee reco.

[Deespicable 2,886]

I am hoping both the coach and players realise what a win against Richmond would mean to the way we all look forward to next season.

Clearly the Tigers have had our measure the past 3 seasons and they are now flag favourites. A loss to us will be a huge blow to them and will mean we can at least take something from our season horribilis. At least 70,000 (mainly Tiger fans) will go on Saturday night, so hopefully Goody and his selectors treat this with vision and excitement.

The Tigers, as we know, play a fanatic pressure-type game and love greasy night conditions because it exposes anybody who is not seriously savage at the ball. They will miss Cotchin, but will most likely bring back Caddy. They are currently going with two ruckmen to compensate for Nankervis being out - Soldo and Choi - and both can be exposed.

IMO, there are few key elements that need addressing or it's game over before the ball is bounced.

1)  Riewoldt and Lynch - You cannot seriously play Oscar on either of them at any stage. They both like to lead up and Oscar likes to trail back, so only a numbskull would pick him for this game. In a perfect world May and Frosty play on them, but if May is not fit, then Lever has to get Lynch. Marty Hore will come back into our back six, so we have an intercept help player if Lever has to take Lynch.

2) Bachar Houli - Basher smashed us last time even though we tried to tag him. We have to make sure he is matched up with either Hunt, Melky or Harmes. Harmes must start forward to try and get this to work and hopefully he can expose him on the counter. Later Harmesy may be needed on the ball.

3) Nick Vlastuin - Another underrated star down back for them and the perfect match up for Jordy to try and negate his intercepting and clean-up influence.

4) Soldo and Chol - This is the one area that we can try and exploit the Tigers and if Goody plans to use Tim Smith as our back-up tapman again then he is a bigger nong than some of you have been saying. Bruce's first two goals last week came directly from when Smith was on the ball on him. I'm sure we can all realise Goody's frustration at Preuss' not nailing the McGovern tackle in Alice Springs and he did drop about five marks that day, including the embarassing sitter in the last term. But Preuss has to play. He may drop marks but he has a presence and against Richmond that is critical. And the ball at least gets to the ground when Preuss is in the vicinity. I would start Preuss in the ruck as a surprise tactic and plan to use Gawn as the No.1 man after half time when we generally are running out of steam.  

Further to this, playing Gawn forward at start, means Astbury will probably go to him and Petty can try and play more of a negating role on Grimes, which is what we want because Grimes, Vlastuin and Houli are their Kryptonite. They have to be curtailed for us to have any chance. Gawn is more likely to surprise them up forward early when it is less greasy because the later it gets, the more they will push him under, just as they did against Cox last week. But getting some tough bump and grind in the centre-bounces early from Preuss will give Gawny a chance to exploit them on the ball in the second half.

5 Dusty Martin - Yes he's back in form. Angus showed on Yeo in Alice Springs that he lifts when challenged and Dusty should be his all night. We have to find a way to get more out of Angus and give him more leadership and this is our chance.

6 Kane Lambert and Sydney Stack - both provide plenty of run with Ellis. We have to make sure we get disciplined players on them, hence this is the week to move Hibberd and Nev forward to a wing with a plan to have them nullify their influence. In a perfect world Nev takes Stack whenever he can, while Hibberd gets Lambert. Having Jetta and Hibberd on a wing makes us more accountable and gives us more presence. The Tigers will kill us if we show the slightest sign of whimpiness or one-way running, so we need defensive-minded wingmen.

So for me, it's the following changes:

Out: Oscar Mc, Corey Wags, ANB, Tim Smith, J.Wags (only if May fit)

In: Hore, Dunkley, Melksham, Preuss and May (if fit)

Starting line-up

B: Salem (Castagna) May or Lever (Lynch) Hore (Caddy if back)

HB: Jones (L.Baker) Frost (Riewoldt) Lever or Wags (Edwards)

C Jetta (Stack) Brayshaw (Martin) Hibberd (Lambert)

HF: Petracca/Melky (Ellis) Lewis (Vlastuin) Hunt/Fritsch (Short)

F: Harmes (Houli) Gawn (Astbury) Petty (Grimes)

Ru: Preuss (Soldo) Oliver (Graham) Viney (Prestia)

Int: Melky (fwd), O.Baker (mid),  Dunkley (mid/fwd), Hunt/Fritsch (fwd)

Tiger Int: Broad (def), Rioli (fwd), Chol (ruc/fwd),  Bolton (fwd)

As stupid as it sounds, I reckon we are not without a chance if we go with the right mix. We will know if we are fair dinkum on Friday when the team is picked though.

[Young Blood 2,634]

I really doubt we'll see May back this week.

Surely the club will look at putting him on ice for the rest of the year. It's been an uphill battle getting him on the park fitness wise all season.

Aim should be to stay competitive for the rest of the season. There's not going to be a sudden shift. Besides playing guys in different roles and trying out newer players we know Goodwin won't make dramatic changes to our game style.

The one abnormality is still that West Coast game over there. For some reason we went really small and decided to take the game on at all costs with overlapping handball through the middle of the ground and run and carry. We looking like Collingwood in full flight. It worked for three quarters and would have won us the game if we didn't run out of players off the bench. Its an odd one.

I'll be happy to be the one still throwing out the excuse that this team was never at reasonable fitness from the very start of the season. Again an uphill battle where we could usually concentrate more on game plan perhaps.

Edited July 29, 2019 by Yung Blood

[bing181 9,328]

7 hours ago, Demon3 said:

What i will remind you of is that he cost us 2 first round picks

Not if you take into account the whole trade, as there were decent picks that came back to us. By the points system he was the equivalent of one first round pick, pick 10. He actually cost us less than May.

[pineapple dee 2,892]

Change for this week.  I'm going to sit quietly on the couch staring at the TV before the game this week,rocking backwards and forwards drinking scotch whiskey then whack myself in the head with a dinner plate, not after like I usually do.

During the game itself, I'm going to lock myself in the cupboard with a knife and give myself a lobotomy. I know how to do it. I read about it in a book. If the surgery is successful, I'll become a Collingwood supporter.

[jnrmac 20,189]

3 hours ago, Deespicable said:

I am hoping both the coach and players realise what a win against Richmond would mean to the way we all look forward to next season.

Clearly the Tigers have had our measure the past 3 seasons and they are now flag favourites. A loss to us will be a huge blow to them and will mean we can at least take something from our season horribilis. At least 70,000 (mainly Tiger fans) will go on Saturday night, so hopefully Goody and his selectors treat this with vision and excitement.

The Tigers, as we know, play a fanatic pressure-type game and love greasy night conditions because it exposes anybody who is not seriously savage at the ball. They will miss Cotchin, but will most likely bring back Caddy. They are currently going with two ruckmen to compensate for Nankervis being out - Soldo and Choi - and both can be exposed.

IMO, there are few key elements that need addressing or it's game over before the ball is bounced.

1)  Riewoldt and Lynch - You cannot seriously play Oscar on either of them at any stage. They both like to lead up and Oscar likes to trail back, so only a numbskull would pick him for this game. In a perfect world May and Frosty play on them, but if May is not fit, then Lever has to get Lynch. Marty Hore will come back into our back six, so we have an intercept help player if Lever has to take Lynch.

2) Bachar Houli - Basher smashed us last time even though we tried to tag him. We have to make sure he is matched up with either Hunt, Melky or Harmes. Harmes must start forward to try and get this to work and hopefully he can expose him on the counter. Later Harmesy may be needed on the ball.

3) Nick Vlastuin - Another underrated star down back for them and the perfect match up for Jordy to try and negate his intercepting and clean-up influence.

4) Soldo and Chol - This is the one area that we can try and exploit the Tigers and if Goody plans to use Tim Smith as our back-up tapman again then he is a bigger nong than some of you have been saying. Bruce's first two goals last week came directly from when Smith was on the ball on him. I'm sure we can all realise Goody's frustration at Preuss' not nailing the McGovern tackle in Alice Springs and he did drop about five marks that day, including the embarassing sitter in the last term. But Preuss has to play. He may drop marks but he has a presence and against Richmond that is critical. And the ball at least gets to the ground when Preuss is in the vicinity. I would start Preuss in the ruck as a surprise tactic and plan to use Gawn as the No.1 man after half time when we generally are running out of steam.  

Further to this, playing Gawn forward at start, means Astbury will probably go to him and Petty can try and play more of a negating role on Grimes, which is what we want because Grimes, Vlastuin and Houli are their Kryptonite. They have to be curtailed for us to have any chance. Gawn is more likely to surprise them up forward early when it is less greasy because the later it gets, the more they will push him under, just as they did against Cox last week. But getting some tough bump and grind in the centre-bounces early from Preuss will give Gawny a chance to exploit them on the ball in the second half.

5 Dusty Martin - Yes he's back in form. Angus showed on Yeo in Alice Springs that he lifts when challenged and Dusty should be his all night. We have to find a way to get more out of Angus and give him more leadership and this is our chance.

6 Kane Lambert and Sydney Stack - both provide plenty of run with Ellis. We have to make sure we get disciplined players on them, hence this is the week to move Hibberd and Nev forward to a wing with a plan to have them nullify their influence. In a perfect world Nev takes Stack whenever he can, while Hibberd gets Lambert. Having Jetta and Hibberd on a wing makes us more accountable and gives us more presence. The Tigers will kill us if we show the slightest sign of whimpiness or one-way running, so we need defensive-minded wingmen.

So for me, it's the following changes:

Out: Oscar Mc, Corey Wags, ANB, Tim Smith, J.Wags (only if May fit)

In: Hore, Dunkley, Melksham, Preuss and May (if fit)

Starting line-up

B: Salem (Castagna) May or Lever (Lynch) Hore (Caddy if back)

HB: Jones (L.Baker) Frost (Riewoldt) Lever or Wags (Edwards)

C Jetta (Stack) Brayshaw (Martin) Hibberd (Lambert)

HF: Petracca/Melky (Ellis) Lewis (Vlastuin) Hunt/Fritsch (Short)

F: Harmes (Houli) Gawn (Astbury) Petty (Grimes)

Ru: Preuss (Soldo) Oliver (Graham) Viney (Prestia)

Int: Melky (fwd), O.Baker (mid),  Dunkley (mid/fwd), Hunt/Fritsch (fwd)

Tiger Int: Broad (def), Rioli (fwd), Chol (ruc/fwd),  Bolton (fwd)

As stupid as it sounds, I reckon we are not without a chance if we go with the right mix. We will know if we are fair dinkum on Friday when the team is picked though.

I applaud your posting effort but I fear it is on deaf ears. Against St Kilda you could have written the script with Bruce and Membery taking 100 marks between them and kicking 6 or 7 goals. Their outside runners chop us every time and we failed to negate it. Probably because Goodwin is to stubborn and wants to play the melbourne 'brand'.

You have made a valiant attempt to predict the game against Richmond and it looks like the usual script. Your suggestions make a fair bit of sense. Goodwin made some good tactical moves against WCE but that is the exception to the rule.

Richmond should wipe the floor with us.

[AaronDaveyChipsAndGravey 390]

If we could delist Omac right now I would, needs to be put in the bin forever. Both Wagners are dead weight and not showing anything. ANB is just not up to standard, not sure what he even offers bar being 1 of 22 players required to fill a team. Not sure why we are persisting with Tim Smith. He’s 28, injury prone and very hit and miss.

As far as ins are concerned, May, Hore and Melksham need to be brought back if fit. I’d be willing to give JKH and Preuss one more go after decent vfl numbers. Weideman needs another go in the 2s after his calf and concussion otherwise I’d play him over Smith. If not JKH then Dunkley up forward.

Out: Omac, J Wagner, C Wagner, ANB, Tim Smith

In: May, Melksham, Hore, Preuss, JKH

[Robbie57 2,022]

3 hours ago, AaronDaveyChipsAndGravey said:

If we could delist Omac right now I would, needs to be put in the bin forever. Both Wagners are dead weight and not showing anything. ANB is just not up to standard, not sure what he even offers bar being 1 of 22 players required to fill a team. Not sure why we are persisting with Tim Smith. He’s 28, injury prone and very hit and miss.

As far as ins are concerned, May, Hore and Melksham need to be brought back if fit. I’d be willing to give JKH and Preuss one more go after decent vfl numbers. Weideman needs another go in the 2s after his calf and concussion otherwise I’d play him over Smith. If not JKH then Dunkley up forward.

Out: Omac, J Wagner, C Wagner, ANB, Tim Smith

In: May, Melksham, Hore, Preuss, JKH

Weideman out for the season. Our problem is we have no fit forwards thats why we persist with Smith.  We dont present any forward threat so teams can (and have) exploited that.  Why not see if Omac is able to take a mark forward, he was hopeless last week but why not try that, seriously what do we have to lose? Its not like the other options are irresistible. 

Sadly my brother have President's club passes this week and I agreed to go a long time ago. So I have to fly down for this one. A very expensive night of punishment coming up, all i hope is the President is actually there so I can share a few thoughts.

[La Dee-vina Comedia 16,909]

3 minutes ago, Robbie57 said:

Weideman out for the season. Our problem is we have no fit forwards thats why we persist with Smith.  We dont present any forward threat so teams can (and have) exploited that.  Why not see if Omac is able to take a mark forward, he was hopeless last week but why not try that, seriously what do we have to lose? Its not like the other options are irresistible. 

Sadly my brother have President's club passes this week and I agreed to go a long time ago. So I have to fly down for this one. A very expensive night of punishment coming up, all i hope is the President is actually there so I can share a few thoughts.

But imagine the euphoric feeling if we win!

(Make sure you imagine it well, because I fear the joy will only be in your imagination.)

[DeeZee 7,445]

Out - ANB , c Wagner, j. Wagner , TSmith , O Baker, OMac

In - Melksham, May, Hore, Stretch, JKH , Preuss

[chook fowler 19,551]

can we drop OMac twice - just watched the replay from saturday and relived that handball he did blind into the corridor which resulted in a goal.A pure coach killer.

[frankie_d 1,471]

21 hours ago, pineapple dee said:

Change for this week.  I'm going to sit quietly on the couch staring at the TV before the game this week,rocking backwards and forwards drinking scotch whiskey then whack myself in the head with a dinner plate, not after like I usually do.

During the game itself, I'm going to lock myself in the cupboard with a knife and give myself a lobotomy. I know how to do it. I read about it in a book. If the surgery is successful, I'll become a Collingwood supporter.

You'll need to remove more than the frontal lobes for that transformation, PD...

[frankie_d 1,471]

1 hour ago, Robbie57 said:

Weideman out for the season. Our problem is we have no fit forwards thats why we persist with Smith.  We dont present any forward threat so teams can (and have) exploited that.  Why not see if Omac is able to take a mark forward, he was hopeless last week but why not try that, seriously what do we have to lose? Its not like the other options are irresistible. 

Sadly my brother have President's club passes this week and I agreed to go a long time ago. So I have to fly down for this one. A very expensive night of punishment coming up, all i hope is the President is actually there so I can share a few thoughts.

We'll be relying on you, Robbie, to have a "frank and candid exchange of views" with the Prez.

 

[Red and Blue realist 2,058]

28 minutes ago, chook fowler said:

can we drop OMac twice - just watched the replay from saturday and relived that handball he did blind into the corridor which resulted in a goal.A pure coach killer.

That was just horrible all round, it looked like Jones called for the handball then ran off in a different direction, while Frost stood there with his hands in the air while his man ran past unopposed into an open goal. 

[grey wolf 226]

Clearly OMac has to go ...there were 11 times on the weekend where he only tried one percent... Max Lever and Frosty had 5 times and Nev 3 but everyone else had only 2 or less , so they must all be safe...

and for the Tiger Grimes and Astbury were the only guys in double figures, bludgers, and Martin and Houli not far behind on 8...

[ErmieJones 63]

I don't care who comes in.

We can't have Oscar McDonald play another game for this club. 

Heard he's a nice bloke, but he's just simply not good enough.

[poita 3,902]

On 7/29/2019 at 11:21 AM, Demon3 said:

What i will remind you of is that he cost us 2 first round picks, $800k a year and cant kick and cant play 1on1.  Now he has had 2 knee recos. 

He would want to improve because i can remember him playing 1 good game for us, in a match against Carlton where we won by 109 points. 

I can't believe we are paying the bloke $800K a year to not take one of the opposition's best two forwards.

Oscar McDonald gets relentlessly criticised around here, but he isn't playing on players the calibre of Doulton Langlands as Lever is. 

[Demon3 2,541]

2 minutes ago, poita said:

I can't believe we are paying the bloke $800K a year to not take one of the opposition's best two forwards.

Oscar McDonald gets relentlessly criticised around here, but he isn't playing on players the calibre of Doulton Langlands as Lever is. 

Exactly, he cant play one on one, has never been able to do so. Essentially he is Marty Hore, but a worse Kick.

[jumbo returns 6,741]

Lever is an excellent player that will help us win a premiership