Omac and Frost: Premiership Kryptonite

[Red and Blue realist 2,026]

9 hours ago, Rodney (Balls) Grinter said:

Oscar is playing like rubbish no way to argue against that.  But he has the capacity and potential to play much better than he is at present.

Frosty was our best key backman last night and I do think he is doing his job.

Our defense as a team was atrocious again last night.  So many loose Essendon players that took easy marks and receives in defense, which wasn't Frosty's fault.  I do wonder if we should just keep it simple and go man on man.

Frost was horrible last night, multiple times he left his man to run towards the player with the ball and ended up nowhere near the ball or his man, that's basic understanding of the game which he doesn't have. He also dropped multiple marks and got out marked by a guy 20kgs lighter and 10cm shorter, while having the front position. 

Both are horribly out of form, when may and lever are back Frost will be the first out of the team. Hope petty or keilty get a run this week

[markc 975]

when you have your 2-3 of your best defenders out ...

when May , Lever and even Lewis are back Im sure our backline with look a hell of allot different 

even just having May back ( when fit ) both frost and Oscar  move down the pecking order 

when Lever is back one or both of them have to go .

 

[Ante_Up 69]

20 hours ago, dazzledavey36 said:

If guys like David King and Reiwoldt are seeing this in the flesh then surely Goody is in the same boat.

Oscar just needs to go.. plain and simple. Casey, Oak Park, Frankston... anywhere!

Quambatook 2nds?

[titan_uranus 22,515]

56 minutes ago, Red and Blue realist said:

Frost was horrible last night, multiple times he left his man to run towards the player with the ball and ended up nowhere near the ball or his man, that's basic understanding of the game which he doesn't have. He also dropped multiple marks and got out marked by a guy 20kgs lighter and 10cm shorter, while having the front position. 

Both are horribly out of form, when may and lever are back Frost will be the first out of the team. Hope petty or keilty get a run this week

I saw this too. Frost lacks innate football knowledge. He's an athlete but not a footballer. So he regularly sees a contest up ahead and starts moving towards it despite not having any chance of affecting it. He then leaves space behind him. He does this all the time.

There will always be the occasional time when he picks it up on half back and does something nice with it, or he lays a tackle or something like that. And indeed, right now the ability for him to do something with the ball makes him a better option than OMac. But long-term, we have to find better options than him (and OMac).

[Ante_Up 69]

1 hour ago, Clint Bizkit said:

I think Frost stays to play on Franklin, but either way we are in all sorts.

 

Apocolyptic

[Deefender 205]

I have complete faith in Oscar McDonald. Big men take longer to reach their potential. He’s only just turned 23. Repeat, 23. 

Fair go. In a couple of years he will be indispensable. Mark my words.

[Vineytime 783]

OMac & ANB the laughing stock of the competition..,

[Hellish Inferno 992]

There are qualities that Oscar just doesn't have and will not obtain. I've come to realise this now

Send him to Casey and see if he shows something for depth. He is not best 22

[BAMF 3,787]

20 minutes ago, deefender said:

I have complete faith in Oscar McDonald. Big men take longer to reach their potential. He’s only just turned 23. Repeat, 23. 

Fair go. In a couple of years he will be indispensable. Mark my words.

I thought this when he was 20/21.

He hasn't gotten any better though has he? The improvement just hasn't happened.

[DV8 2,271]

24 minutes ago, deefender said:

I have complete faith in Oscar McDonald. Big men take longer to reach their potential. He’s only just turned 23. Repeat, 23. 

Fair go. In a couple of years he will be indispensable. Mark my words.

But he doesn't have to play in the seniors all the time.   He can go back to VFL when he's not doing the job. like others do.

[Demon Dynasty 15,627]

2 hours ago, Red and Blue realist said:

Frost was horrible last night, multiple times he left his man to run towards the player with the ball and ended up nowhere near the ball or his man, that's basic understanding of the game which he doesn't have. He also dropped multiple marks and got out marked by a guy 20kgs lighter and 10cm shorter, while having the front position. 

Both are horribly out of form, when may and lever are back Frost will be the first out of the team. Hope petty or keilty get a run this week

I would be interested to hear Drunkn's view on Petty & keilty as alternatives to Frost/Oscar.  Would they add something above these two or would we be regressing even further?

Early days but weighted stats i keep on both have Frosty ranked 17th out of 26 players played so far and Oscar ranked 21st.

Compared to last year's average weighted score over 23 rounds Frost is still 15% down on last year's output and Oscar is a massive 38% down!  To put that in some perspective the whole team was down approx 22% in output against the Bombers vs it's average for the entire 2018 season.

As you say, both are horribly out of form.  But very early days for everyone.

Edited April 6, 2019 by Rusty Nails

[monoccular 16,187]

1 hour ago, Ante_Up said:

Apocolyptic

With whom would you replace O and Frost until Lever and May recover?

Perhasps Keilty OR Petty but not both at once. 

Edited April 6, 2019 by monoccular

[Drunkn167 5,093]

56 minutes ago, Rusty Nails said:

I would be interested to hear Drunkn's view on Petty & keilty as alternatives to Frost/Oscar.  Would they add something above these two or would we be regressing even further?

Keilty is playing forward now and with Hore and Petty and others he’s no chance playing down back, he will have to find a spot as a FWD/Ruck

I don’t know if Petty would add more. His overhead marking is better then Frost and OMac I reckon, but he still has a fair bit of developing to do and I really don’t think right now he’s the answer to our defensive woes. But I could be wrong, he might come in and dominate so who knows.

[grey wolf 226]

TMac has to go back or go out .. he was an embarrassment this week..  he can’t run! ... although we looked good for twenty minutes while he was injured.. perhaps he will miss 4-6

[Demon Dynasty 15,627]

12 minutes ago, Drunkn167 said:

Keilty is playing forward now and with Hore and Petty and others he’s no chance playing down back, he will have to find a spot as a FWD/Ruck

I don’t know if Petty would add more. His overhead marking is better then Frost and OMac I reckon, but he still has a fair bit of developing to do and I really don’t think right now he’s the answer to our defensive woes. But I could be wrong, he might come in and dominate so who knows.

Thx for the update Drunkn

[Demon Dynasty 15,627]

11 minutes ago, grey wolf said:

TMac has to go back or go out .. he was an embarrassment this week..  he can’t run! ... although we looked good for twenty minutes while he was injured.. perhaps he will miss 4-6

Has regressed with each round GW.  Foot impacting and getting worse the more he plays?  Did i hear someone on the coverage saying he was having pain killers before/during the match?  Not sure he will get up for the Swans.

 

[hemingway 7,597]

With Demonland friends you don’t need enemies. 

I’m incredibly disappointed but posts on this site are appalling and reflect the worst aspects of social media. It’s a bloody game for Christ’s sake.

Constructive comment, analysis and criticism is fine but personal attack on players is disgraceful.

Sure express disappointment but save me on the vitriolic personal abuse.  Your worst feelings should be kept to yourself. If you don’t want to support the side drop off and stop filling these pages with hate mail for the sense of common decency. 

[DV8 2,271]

1 hour ago, monoccular said:

With whom would you replace O and Frost until Lever and May recover?

Perhasps Keilty OR Petty but not both at once. 

In the right matchup games, play Petty and Frost.

 

OMc needs to go back to the VFL and fight for his spot once again.   He has been given too many games now, when he just hasn't performed.   Hasn't deserved them.

He has to find some more intensity at VFL level.  Or he has to see how he goes up forward, with Casey ? 

Time to bite the bullet, and make a change with Oscar.

[BillyBeane 211]

They are #3 and #4 back line options. They did amazingly well holding it together for the back half of last year. With lever, may and Lewis in the side only 1 of the two plays. Frost has talent and athleticism. Sadly you probably can’t teach smarts (which is a problem across our whole list sadly)

Edited April 6, 2019 by BillyBeane

[WERRIDEE 5,218]

8 hours ago, Drunkn167 said:

Keilty is playing forward now and with Hore and Petty and others he’s no chance playing down back, he will have to find a spot as a FWD/Ruck

I don’t know if Petty would add more. His overhead marking is better then Frost and OMac I reckon, but he still has a fair bit of developing to do and I really don’t think right now he’s the answer to our defensive woes. But I could be wrong, he might come in and dominate so who knows.

Don't be so sure. Lockhart wasn't a small forward at VFL level now he's almost made it his own. Hore is hopeless and no one seems to have any confidence in Petty. Keilty is a chance to play back.

[Fanatique Demon 2,408]

21 hours ago, Rodney (Balls) Grinter said:

Oscar is playing like rubbish no way to argue against that.  But he has the capacity and potential to play much better than he is at present.

Frosty was our best key backman last night and I do think he is doing his job.

Our defense as a team was atrocious again last night.  So many loose Essendon players that took easy marks and receives in defense, which wasn't Frosty's fault.  I do wonder if we should just keep it simple and go man on man.

Frost? He was terrible against the Bummers. No way he is doing his job. Gives away free kicks; gets out marked by smaller opponents. I had to avert my eyes every time he went near the ball. Oscar isn't much better but makes fewer mistakes.

[Rodney (Balls) Grinter 10,586]

12 hours ago, Red and Blue realist said:

Frost was horrible last night, multiple times he left his man to run towards the player with the ball and ended up nowhere near the ball or his man, that's basic understanding of the game which he doesn't have. He also dropped multiple marks and got out marked by a guy 20kgs lighter and 10cm shorter, while having the front position. 

Both are horribly out of form, when may and lever are back Frost will be the first out of the team. Hope petty or keilty get a run this week

I grant that Frost was badly out marked by a smaller opponent that one time, but it happens, Nev when he is in form does it for us all the time.

Frost does have a natural instinct to run off his man to create a contest and when the rest of the team isn't in disarray defensively, he does it more sparingly and it comes off well.  But over the past three weeks, the opposition has had so many free players streaming down that Frost has been forced of his man to put some pressure on opposition players in dangerous space with no one else in coowee.  If didn't do that in those situations, no doubt pleanty here would be having a go at him for staying on his man and letting the opposition walk unpressuresd into open goals.

The defensive system of the whole team is up the creek at the moment as evidenced by that awful defensive effort of Hibbard allowing such an easy mark in their forward pocket.

[chook fowler 18,325]

Oscar needs some attitude pills  - he never plays with any urgency, passion, aggression, mongrel, physicality etc. Looks like he’s playing suburban footy. Frost looks like he care it’s just that he’s got no F’ing  idea.

[Rodney (Balls) Grinter 10,586]

16 minutes ago, chook fowler said:

Oscar needs some attitude pills  - he never plays with any urgency, passion, aggression, mongrel, physicality etc. Looks like he’s playing suburban footy. Frost looks like he care it’s just that he’s got no F’ing  idea.

Oscar's form has done a 180 from where it was this time last year.  At the start of last season he was standing up and putting in good games against the likes of Hawkins, taking good intercept marks and generally looking like it had clicked.  But right now, I agree he looks like he is playing at the level above where he should be.

Time to go back to Casey and find whatever confidence, despiration, attitude that he is presently lacking?

The only other thing I would add is that right now Oscar is being asked to play the senior key position back role, where as previously he mostly had T Mac or Dunn down there to shield him from that. 

The lesser ability to have a spare man in defense is also hurting Oscar and or defensive structures generally and it's fairly clear we haven't adjusted well.

[chook fowler 18,325]

It’s not helping Oscar and Frost that Hibberd and Jetta are way down on form. Hibberd in particular has slowed right down, is getting caught and turning the ball over.