As with Hogan, if VDB needs to leave for personal reasons then I wish him the best. However, I would love for him to do a full preseason, show what he is capable of this coming year and then judge him. I think he is far better than a lot are giving him credit for, and has that aura of fear around him that perhaps only Viney and Nev have in our squad. We are supposedly chasing May for that very reason. Yes he has some disposal issues, but he is certainly no worse than others in the team - like Jones, Tyson, ANB and even Brayshaw in this regard - but 2 years out of the game can do that to your skill base. IMO he needs another year before he can be truly judged. 

41 minutes ago, Neil Crompton said:

As with Hogan, if VDB needs to leave for personal reasons then I wish him the best. However, I would love for him to do a full preseason, show what he is capable of this coming year and then judge him. I think he is far better than a lot are giving him credit for, and has that aura of fear around him that perhaps only Viney and Nev have in our squad. We are supposedly chasing May for that very reason. Yes he has some disposal issues, but he is certainly no worse than others in the team - like Jones, Tyson, ANB and even Brayshaw in this regard - but 2 years out of the game can do that to your skill base. IMO he needs another year before he can be truly judged. 

Lot in that post NC

2019 could have been his make or break year but it seems as though we may not benefit one way or the other in that we won't get the performance upside and because of his injury history we are unlikely to see the trade upside

You just get the notion Vanders leaving is purely about pragmatism. I wish him well..  Their time in Footy is not always long.. Theres more to life than footy.

For the record, I still think Vanders will stay on a 2 year deal for slightly less money with some type of arrangement being met allowing himan extra day off a week or fortnight for his business. Club clearly don't want to loose him.

Gut feel only. I have no inside knowledge as to what's happening.

On 9/29/2018 at 10:23 AM, Redleg said:

But is he in our best 22.

If JH doesn't go or May comes in and say KK plus Lever, is he in our best 22?

I'd say the way he came back in to the side after only a minimum number of VFL games tells me he's highly valued. KK and Fritsch might be the starting wingmen next year, in which case Vanders could be out of the 22. But if Tyson goes as well then there's very little depth there so he'd be next picked on a wing, next picked at half forward and just as likely next picked on ball. Hard to see him dropping outside the top 26 or so unless we do some really strong mature age recruiting. I couldn't see how his form this year plus a full preseason doesn't equate to being a guy you expect to play more weeks than not if healthy.

On 9/29/2018 at 9:02 AM, jumbo returns said:

I think that there has to be some loyalty and building of relationships here

2 years on the side lines, not delisted, nurtured and looked after

One year is a fair offer and a good platform for both club and player to build on

1 year deals are really for guys who are 30+, fringe players or dealing with ongoing serious injuries. The MFC will know Vanders injury prognosis better than we do that's for sure but from all I've read after a long period of attempted conservative treatment he had surgery and has come back well. 

If he wants big money then it would be fair to say have 1 year of big money and we'll reassess, but if his financial demands are reasonable maybe with a lot incentives then I don't think his injury issues are enough to prevent a 2 year deal. If he was to leave purely because we don't offer a 2nd year I'd expect that to the be the reason.

I doubt list spots in 2020 will be a huge issue, they aren't right now and I don't think having too many similar players or too many older players will be an issue then either. I couldn't see him not being given another year for 2020 if he played 2019 in his current form even if better depth meant he gets dropped a few times. To me that all means it's the risk of injury that is the main factor.

Offer him a 2 year deal and decent coin.  Enough so he can afford to employ someone else to run the business.

Premiership window...handy foil up forward and through the middle.  Had a big impact on return and part of the reason we made finals IMO.

In big finals you also need a few hard nutz that dont take prisoners.  Vanders certainly ticks all boxes as a big game player.  Keeper.

Edited September 30, 20186 yr by Rusty Nails

Dont misunderstand me I quite like what Vanders brings to our game but even Im not sure he's necessarily best 22. The arguments for retention and hope via a full preseason are worthy but if he goes he'll be replaced. I think the club IS being accommodating whilst prudent. Happy for him to stay ...quite understand should he go. Either way HE isnt the difference between good team and great team.

On 9/29/2018 at 10:23 AM, Redleg said:

But is he in our best 22.

If JH doesn't go or May comes in and say KK plus Lever, is he in our best 22?

Absolutely on our best 22. If anything he was rushed back in before being ready. After a preseason he would solidify it even further

AVB has yet to show us his ability through injuries.  It was hoped 2019 was going to be the year with a good preseason.  His tackling and physical presence was going to be important.  

2 hours ago, DubDee said:

Absolutely on our best 22. If anything he was rushed back in before being ready. After a preseason he would solidify it even further

This is backed up objectively also.

In the season's composite average stats i keep Vanders finished 19th, just behind ANB!

From the 4 matches that qualified him for the ranking, he played against 3 top eight sides in the Swans, Giants and  eventual Premiers, the Eagles.

Not bad for a guy out of the game for pretty much 2 entire seasons.

* Played less than 3 matches and does not qualify.  Included for interest / curiosity purposes only.  Move players up to replace in rankings as required.

Vanders reminds me very much like Kevin Dyson who I rated very very highly in the 90ts and a touch of Andrew Obst !!anyone else see similarities in Style?

Keeper for mine!

Edited September 30, 20186 yr by picket fence

4 minutes ago, picket fence said:

Vanders reminds me very much like Kevin Dyson who I rated very very highly in the 90ts anyone else see similarities in Style?

Keeper for mine!

Kevin had better hair

1 hour ago, picket fence said:

Vanders reminds me very much like Kevin Dyson who I rated very very highly in the 90ts and a touch of Andrew Obst !!anyone else see similarities in Style?

Keeper for mine!

KD went to Sydney.

7 hours ago, beelzebub said:

You just get the notion Vanders leaving is purely about pragmatism. I wish him well..  Their time in Footy is not always long.. Theres more to life than footy.

And his family & mother will need him close by. Let alone the business.  It does make sense, and we can also do OK with this trade.

6 hours ago, beelzebub said:

Dont misunderstand me I quite like what Vanders brings to our game but even Im not sure he's necessarily best 22. The arguments for retention and hope via a full preseason are worthy but if he goes he'll be replaced. I think the club IS being accommodating whilst prudent. Happy for him to stay ...quite understand should he go. Either way HE isnt the difference between good team and great team.

That's probably true, but watching the GF has me thinking you don't need to be a great team to win it. You just have to get in the right spot - ideally top 4, with the right game plan and enough talent and have it go your way.

The Eagles have some guns - a great line up of talls, a bit of polish on the flanks and some quality mids. But they also had Masten on a wing, young Cole down back, LeCras who's way past it forward, Venables who they limited to 55% game time and all the guys I mentioned are locks in their 22 and better than the emergencies. Pies are a bit the same with Greenwood, Mayne, Aish etc.

One way to spin that is get the stars in and find the depth when you need it, but I also think the opposite applies where you need players who might be lacking in multiple areas but can just do enough to stay in the game. Vanders speed, size and hardness makes him the right kind of bottom of the 22 player the way teams are going these days. It's very hard to assemble a list of 25 better than him.

On 9/29/2018 at 10:23 AM, Redleg said:

But is he in our best 22.

If JH doesn't go or May comes in and say KK plus Lever, is he in our best 22?

If he's in our best squad of 30 then whether he is best 22 or not is irrelevant. I'd be offering him 2 years, assuming the club actually want to keep him. Draftees get 2 years, an extra year on top of the 1 weve supposedly offered isn't going to break our list management strategies.

3 hours ago, picket fence said:

Vanders reminds me very much like Kevin Dyson who I rated very very highly in the 90ts and a touch of Andrew Obst !!anyone else see similarities in Style?

Keeper for mine!

Obst was a far better player than VDB. I don't see any similarity. Completely different players and body types too.

VDB's contract would've had a trigger clause to get him his second year. 

Unfortunately he cant get his body right. He could barely train over the last 3 weeks of his 6 week season.

I think it's reasonable to offer him one year deal with a trigger clause. I don't begrudge him the opportunity to be on Sydney's injury list for the next 3 years.

15 hours ago, beelzebub said:

Dont misunderstand me I quite like what Vanders brings to our game but even Im not sure he's necessarily best 22. The arguments for retention and hope via a full preseason are worthy but if he goes he'll be replaced. I think the club IS being accommodating whilst prudent. Happy for him to stay ...quite understand should he go. Either way HE isnt the difference between good team and great team.

Spot on. Well said

It is a valid observation that he didn't train with the main group during the finals.  He does seem to have continuing injury concerns.

The FD clearly love what he offers because they brought him in at the earliest hint he was ready to go in 2017 and 2018.

His attack on the contest and the impact it brings is probably up there with our best like Viney.  But the queries on his disposal skills are valid too.  Fair observations that he's a terrible handballer.

I'd definitely prefer we keep him, he was in my start of year best 22, but he 's not core to success.

1. With Kent definitely leaving, and Tyson a good chance of leaving we really need to retain AVB imo, we are losing 2 depth players and hogan already. 

2. He balances the age of our list well, and after a full preseason would definitely be a best 22 player, if not best 18.

3. His football also stacks up in finals, which is of utmost importance for us now. 

I'm happy for him to go if he repays the club for the medical bills we have copped for the past two years and the 18 months of wages he did no work for.

I have no issues with players moving clubs for family reasons or for job security (including Tom Scully) as long as we are fairly compensated, but Vandenberg owes us big time for the faith we showed in him at the end of last year.

He offers us something different with his brute strength and don't argues - often in key moments. Will be better with an uninterrupted preseason and did fantastically well to earn a call up so soon after returning to VFL.

Reading between the lines, he is 'exploring' and not yet requested a trade because he doesn't yet have a guaranteed suitor. Good luck to him whatever he does however.

49 minutes ago, poita said:

I'm happy for him to go if he repays the club for the medical bills we have copped for the past two years and the 18 months of wages he did no work for.

I have no issues with players moving clubs for family reasons or for job security (including Tom Scully) as long as we are fairly compensated, but Vandenberg owes us big time for the faith we showed in him at the end of last year.

There are some real tossers on this site.

1 hour ago, poita said:

I'm happy for him to go if he repays the club for the medical bills we have copped for the past two years and the 18 months of wages he did no work for.

I have no issues with players moving clubs for family reasons or for job security (including Tom Scully) as long as we are fairly compensated, but Vandenberg owes us big time for the faith we showed in him at the end of last year.

I can only assume this post is dry humour, because it’s incomprehensible to me that you could be serious.