Farewell Jesse Hogan

[hank 23]

If we don’t get two first round picks for Hogan ...

I would want to bring back Peter Jackson to fix the problem we have in our recruiting department

Edited October 6, 2018 by Whispering_Jack
Merged thread

[ding 5,126]

And if it turned out to be a good player AND a first rounder?

FFS Demonland, cant we wait until something actually happens?

[DV8 2,271]

1 hour ago, TeamPlayedFine39 said:

The West Coast Eagles didn't think so. 

This was on their whiteboard on Grand Final day and was their mantra throughout the season.

 

Being in contests against one another, IS cavemen ideals. It is combative,,, to win.   Wanting to beat your opponent is all about caveman lust.

No amount of politically correct rhetoric, will ever cover the fact. 

Cavemen can be nice you know,,, they did have clans with family & freinds.  They were not roaming independently alone in the wild.

.

[MadAsHell 4,088]

Ring up Trade Radio and blame Sam Maclure!

[DeeZee 6,750]

Shave my armpits 

[Demon Dynasty 15,526]

8 hours ago, deeology said:

Putting up a fight to keep a bloke away from his family who's father just died would not only be a fail for the club but a failure at humanity.

He has all summer to be close to his family and can still transit.  No need for cotton wool and so much sugar coating

Yes family comes first but options and adjustments can be made in the short term to accommodate and fit in.  Including one hour travel time by flight later if needed.  It's only as hard as ppl want it to be.  Where there's a will there's a way

[Dee Zephyr 17,565]

..

Edited October 6, 2018 by Dee Zephyr

[Jibroni 4,111]

Deposit at the bank

[Mazer Rackham 14,969]

1 hour ago, TeamPlayedFine39 said:

The West Coast Eagles didn't think so. 

This was on their whiteboard on Grand Final day and was their mantra throughout the season.

 

I thought drug names were things like "charlie" and "molly" and "blow".

These ones are new to me.

[bing181 8,169]

2 hours ago, beelzebub said:

Some folk have very interesting and different negotiating skills 

Not sure I'd be calling them "skills".

[TheoX 1,218]

On 10/5/2018 at 3:47 PM, Dockett 32 said:

Freo are ‘desperate’ for a key forward.

Posturing for a sweetener.

Our blokes won’t be waiting all day on Freo or Jesse ,as we obviously have business to attend to  as well.

No panic necessary, Freo understand how the games played. 

We wont blink first.

 

 

 

 

We blinked first with Lever who was uncontracted. Will be a disgrace if we accept anything less than 4 and 5 for Hogan.

[Wiseblood 24,636]

Trust the FD.

It's rare these days that they make a mistake, and while one first rounder (if that's all we got, no player, no other first rounder) would feel like a low return, we won't know the outcome/impact for at least a few years.

I know some will go off their nut if it happens, but it's not the end of the world.  Having said that, I can't see it (just one first round pick) being all we get for Hogan.

[sue 8,434]

1 hour ago, DV8 said:

Being in contests against one another, IS cavemen ideals. It is combative,,, to win.   Wanting to beat your opponent is all about caveman lust.

No amount of politically correct rhetoric, will ever cover the fact. 

Cavemen can be nice you know,,, they did have clans with family & freinds.  They were not roaming independently alone in the wild.

.

It is so instructive to learn from our amateur anthropological archaeologists about the detailed workings of 'caveman' society. I just wish their conclusions were based on more than cartoon stereotypes from the early 20th century.    

 

[beelzebub 22,225]

46 minutes ago, bing181 said:

Not sure I'd be calling them "skills".

styles ?

[beelzebub 22,225]

6 hours ago, whatwhatsaywhat said:

freo are stuck in that awkward position of beating the poor teams at home, the really poor away, and not being remotely close to those above them

i can completely understand why they're targeting hogan, but if they lose neale they're really robbing peter to pay paul

their home ground advantage finds them actually stuck btw a rock and a hard place

and what a damn shame....awwwwwwww

[Graeme Yeats' Mullet 6,281]

33 minutes ago, Wiseblood said:

we won't know the outcome/impact for at least a few years.

It's all going to be OK because we'll never know the direct outcome of the trade (or at least for years) is a load of s#1t argument.

Just trust our guys they've had a few good years doesn't hold water... Past performance is no indication of future performance.

You can only manage what you measure. Hence the AFL introducing points ratings to stop incompetent trading. And we all know we have a gun, we know what we paid in picks, we know what others have paid similarly in picks and trades, so there's plenty of points of comparison which have all been laid out in this thread.

So if we accept one pick (be it 5 or 6 traded for May or not) for Hogan it is an unquestionable failure!

[Redleg 37,635]

Starting to get the feeling that if Lobbe needs to get to the Dockers too, we may be looking at a pick and player for JH, with the pick to go to GC maybe for May and KK and maybe a lesser one coming back.

That would mean we get 3 players for JH. That could be a possibility.

[Wiseblood 24,636]

2 minutes ago, Graeme Yeats' Mullet said:

So if we accept one pick (be it 5 or 6 traded for May or not) for Hogan it is an unquestionable failure!

I respectfully disagree, Graeme.

Let's say, hypothetically, we get just Pick 5. We on trade that to GC for May and, say, a second rounder.  What if adding May, KK in a separate deal, and say Preuss, allows us to win a flag over the next few seasons?  Is it seen as a failure then, or a success?

In the end, we can look at the point system all we like, but it's how we do out on the field that counts the most.  There are too many 'what ifs' in play to call it a failure or success the moment the trade happens.  Any trade needs time.

[Wiseblood 24,636]

4 minutes ago, Redleg said:

Starting to get the feeling that if Lobbe needs to get to the Dockers too, we may be looking at a pick and player for JH, with the pick to go to GC maybe for May and KK and maybe a lesser one coming back.

That would mean we get 3 players for JH. That could be a possibility.

There are lots of possibilities, Red, one of which you've mentioned above.  It could turn out to be a 3,4,5 team deal, it could be a straight swap, future picks are involved, and so on and so on.

Some are getting all antsy that we will get 'unders' for Jesse, but there has been no indication that will happen.  Freo didn't really shoot down giving up more than Pick 5, while Mahoney said we would be looking for one of the best deals ever done for a player.  If you meet in the middle of that then you would expect two picks or one pick and a good player in return.  A few low rent journos might be suggesting just Pick 5 is involved, but that is nothing more than their opinion.

[Redleg 37,635]

3 minutes ago, Wiseblood said:

 while Mahoney said we would be looking for one of the best deals ever done for a player. 

That is why I am not worried and have faith in the FD to get it done.

[Graeme Yeats' Mullet 6,281]

11 minutes ago, Wiseblood said:

I respectfully disagree, Graeme.

Let's say, hypothetically, we get just Pick 5. We on trade that to GC for May and, say, a second rounder.  What if adding May, KK in a separate deal, and say Preuss, allows us to win a flag over the next few seasons?  Is it seen as a failure then, or a success?

In the end, we can look at the point system all we like, but it's how we do out on the field that counts the most.  There are too many 'what ifs' in play to call it a failure or success the moment the trade happens.  Any trade needs time.

I may have been crude and I apologise, however I can't accept the premise of your argument as the converse is equally true

"Let's say hypothetically.... win a flag" is great but no one knows if that happens or doesn't or if May impacts it or not or if Hogan would have impacted or wouldn't have so we need an objective measure to guide today's decision today

Hogan > 5 > May ... and there are evidence points supporting this

[Matsuo Basho 1,053]

1 hour ago, TheoX said:

We blinked first with Lever who was uncontracted. Will be a disgrace if we accept anything less than 4 and 5 for Hogan.

Okay that argument needs to be nipped in the bud. Not all first round picks are of equal value. You do realise the two first rounders Adelaide received off us for Lever ended up being picks 10 & 16. That is a far cry from the 4 & 5 or even 5 & 9 people want for Hogan.

Lever is a star, worth every bit of picks 10 & 16 and the FD did the right thing getting that deal done early in trade week regardless of whether or not he was contracted.

The Hogan situation is a different kettle of fish requiring a whole different approach. 

 

 

Edited October 6, 2018 by EnterTheDragon

[sue 8,434]

21 minutes ago, Wiseblood said:

....In the end, we can look at the point system all we like, but it's how we do out on the field that counts the most.  There are too many 'what ifs' in play to call it a failure or success the moment the trade happens.  Any trade needs time.

Of course.  The result of trades and drafts is not known for years sometimes.  But the point of threads like this (if there is one) is to allow us to rant and rave about what we think is best in the light of our current and limited knowledge. 

While I accept that it is possible that even a loss on paper may get us what we need to win a flag in 2019/20, personally I think it would be very bad to not get significantly more than May for Hogan.

[Wiseblood 24,636]

3 minutes ago, Graeme Yeats' Mullet said:

I may have been crude and I apologise, however I can't accept the premise of your argument as the converse is equally true

"Let's say hypothetically.... win a flag" is great but no one knows if that happens or doesn't 

You weren't crude at all!  I just didn't want to come across as if I was in my response.

I think that second sentence sums everything up - you're right, we don't know what's going to happen, which is why we can't judge a trade until we see more of the outcome.  Heck, we don't even know what we're getting for Hogan just yet.  

I'll trust Mahoney and co. to do the right thing by the club.

[Wiseblood 24,636]

1 minute ago, sue said:

Of course.  The result of trades and drafts is not known for years sometimes.  But the point of threads like this (if there is one) is to allow us to rant and rave about what we think is best in the light of our current and limited knowledge. 

While I accept that it is possible that even a loss on paper may get us what we need to win a flag in 2019/20, personally I think it would be very bad to not get significantly more than May for Hogan.

I'll make the point here, as I'm sure others will question my post as well, that I'm not advocating for just one pick for Hogan.  Far from it.  I think he's worth more and I'll be a little disappointed if that's all we get.

However, as you say, we don't know the true worth of a trade for at least a few years after it occurs, so I won't be ranting and raving if we were to only get one pick for him.  Look at how everyone treated Ports off season in 2017 - journos were calling them 'October Premiers' for snagging Watts, Rockliff and Motlop.  They didn't even make the finals.  

And of course threads like this are for those to rant and rave, and it annoys me that people bring that up, like it excuses them for any type of over the top behaviour.  We can discuss things from both sides, which is what I was doing with Graeme in my earlier posts.  Some will get upset, others won't.  Both are welcome to those responses equally.