Post Match Discussion - Round 2

[Dr. Gonzo 24,192]

3 hours ago, binman said:

Just watched the replay. Some random observations/comments:

• Brisbane are pretty good team, with some genuine guns - the future looks pretty  bright for lions fans 
• Cameron was a terrific get for them
• Some truly baffling umpiring decisions and non decisions -  how Gawn didn't get a free in the 3rd (or maybe 4th?) after Martin threw him to the ground from a throw in is anybody's guess and ridiculous that Fristsch didn't get a fifty - he was wrestled to the ground after clearly taking a mark. The free for holding against Lewis in the middle of the ground was ridiculous, made more so when on a number of occasions players were given an eternity to get rid of the ball
• Jetta has had tough couple of weeks, though this week his cause wasn't helped by some tough borderline umpiring decisions
• Lever was ok, made some smart decisions and has great hands. Did make a couple of bad errors that cost us goals at key times (his failure to 'kill' the ball when one of three players up against Walker and then not keeping the ball in front of him allowing Hipwood to goal near the end of the game). I found it curious that Roos was quick to point out these errors and also had made a couple of other mild criticisms of Lever in the call - it made me wonder if he was keen on him as Goody
• hibberd was back to his AA best and i think our most influential player (with apologies to Jeffy who was awesome)
• My take on the Lions come back: Mistake one - not slowing things down. Brendan Speed said at some point in the third we had started to play tempo football, which i though strange because we hadn't. Just as he said Jones (as pointed out by someone above - a good get) elected to go long down the line from hb to a contest rather than going back and chipping it round to slow things down (though to be fair on the tv i you couldn't see if there was spare player - but if a player worked hard enough there should have been). Fom the contest they won the ball and took it the length of the ground to score.
• Mistake two - near the end of the third oliver missed a set shot and jetta a snapped goal from 20 metres. At the start of the last, after a great build up Hogan missed everything from a set shot from 35. Cameron meanwhile kicked truly twice from 40 metre set shots in that same period. We get those goals and momentum is stopped. 
• Also not sure what happened with Zorko - he was instrumental in getting Lions back into the game and didn't appear to be tagged in the second half
•  However after they leveled up we got the goals needed, with Jeffy and Hoges standing up when required with clutch goals - a terrific sign and we will be able to draw on that all season
• Bugg and Melksham missed some very gettable goals that would have mad things harder for lions
• Brendan Speed is a really good commentator
• Fritsch is the real deal. A wonderful mark, reads the flight really well, is brave and for his size is hard to beat in the air. On the ground picks up the ball beautifully and to round things out is an excellent kick with a sound technique. I love left footers so all in all a top package
• Hogan look really switched on, body language and temperament is good and seem in a good place. However he seems to run under the ball a fair bit still
• Gawn look in ripping shape and is better now when the ball is on the ground
• Lewis made some errors but was terrific in the second half
• Oliver is already close to the best mid fielder i have seen at the dees in my 40 odd years of watching us. Big call i know but he is just so good.
• Of course our habit of giving up bags of goals in short periods of time is an issue but a game still has to be considered in totality. And in the end we won by 26 points. One of the best measures of the likely outcome of a match is the line bet as it is a function of bookies, who do not like losing, setting the line and then thousands of people making a decision on the likely outcome, moving the line up and down. Money talks. The line was 18 points and in the end we easily covered it.

Agreed on all of the above.

With regards to Oliver he is the best mid I have seen wear the red and blue (I started watching in 1988) and it's not even close. Others may have had better attributes but this guy does it week in week out. We've never had someone of his ability and consistency in the last 30 years 

[hells bells 2,023]

Burgoyne off with a hammy.  Handy out if he misses a couple of weeks which you’d expect.

[Dr. Gonzo 24,192]

3 hours ago, DV8 said:

It's about the culture of the club,ours is too passive/submissive.

This is an environmental thing;  that is the energy surrounding the whole club; has been for 50 years.

 

This energy field is controlled by all the feelings of all the Mfc people congregating at club functions, from training, to games, to social get-togethers.

 

This IS the Club Culture of the Mfc.

 

And it can change Via the way the clubs support base feels collectively,,, when around its supporters friends, and around the club.

We need to become more assertive/powerful,,, when thinking talking about the Mfc in general. To shift this submissive collective feeling of "Woe is Us @ Mfc".

 

I would hope we can at least all try to be more aggressiveness in our approach,,, to the club being more aggressive about change,,, about home bases, about recruitment, and about development, of club and of players, and of academies etc.

 

Even in your post there is an attitude of negativity rather than inquisitiveness to explore the concept.  "That's all Platitudes",,, is the opening comment from a closed mindset.

 

We have the habit of shutting down any new ideas, that try to aid the club.  Just abs much as we attack other posters with differing views and ideas.

 

.

I don't necessarily disagree with what you're saying - it's about the actioning of that mindset though. How do we as supporters be more demanding of the club? How do we put it in to action? How do we ensure we don't go the complete opposite route and become a destabilising stakeholder of the club (as Richmond supporters were for 30 years)?

Most supporters don't go to club functions, aren't part of coterie groups etc (and this is the same of all clubs) they're just season ticket holders really rather than true "members". When board elections come up members rarely have any idea whether one person will be better than another unless it's a public one which only happens in times of crisis. 

[Dr. Gonzo 24,192]

2 hours ago, brendan said:

I’m surprised about the non free kicks to max, he got thrown out of the ruck contest a number of times 

Our kids were constantly scragged at ball ups too, not sure if it's just my bias (it may happen to all kids) but it seemed noticeable on the weekend

[Cassiew 1,903]

5 hours ago, Demon77 said:

Last comments Cass, let’s not bore members with this game of tennis. Would you like me to stop posting in fear members reactions will offend others? 

You have an issue with Ethan, I don’t.

No offence, but I won’t engage in further conversations with you on this thread unless you want to discuss the Brisbane game. 

 

Ok de

[DistrACTION Jackson 8,663]

3 hours ago, Rusty Nails said:

Vince was unable to go with Zorko for more than a roughly one half is probably what happened BM.  The drive from Zorko out of the middle after half time playing a big part in turning the game's momentum.

I would have left Maynard in the team or brought in Brayshaw for that 2nd half tag team role with Vince, instead of bringing in Tyson. 

Would have played Bugg on Cameron.  Bugg up forward a complete waste of space.  If Bugg isn't tagging a ball magnet in the middle or defending down back on a small/medium small, I wouldn't be playing him at all.  Hannan is a much better option to groom into this medium forward role.  Has the potential to be our version of Menzel if we persist and he puts in the hard work over the next few years.  First game last week like everyone else.  Wasn't great but wasn't as bad as some on here were saying for an omission (for Bugg!).  Needed a second go at it and a challenge put to him by the coach for this week's match against the wooden spooners.  Would have been a great opportunity for redemption.

Melk made up for an ugly shot or two but his vision and delivery to advantage inside 50 to allow others to run on and score was first class.  Made up for this IMO.

How Max didn't get that free!  Rag dolled out of that contest!

Nice summary

Did you watch the same game as me?

[DistrACTION Jackson 8,663]

2 hours ago, hells bells said:

Burgoyne off with a hammy.  Handy out if he misses a couple of weeks which you’d expect.

I'd say he will miss 2-4. He's 35 so you would not be risking it by bringing him back until he is 100%

[D4Life 2,454]

6 hours ago, brendan said:

I’m surprised about the non free kicks to max, he got thrown out of the ruck contest a number of times 

I only saw 20 minutes of the game, mostly second half and Martin would tackle Max in the ruck as his first action, was let do it. The umpires don’t seem to like giving Max frees!

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

1 hour ago, Is Dom Is Good said:

Did you watch the same game as me?

Not a great game by any measure Dom but I think he was marginally better than Salem & Vince on the day,  yet they still managed a follow up game.  Vince obviously having a few more credits and a bit longer in the tooth!  Salem seemingly playing the invisible man role last week along with a few others.  At least Maynard was given a role for a while on one of the best players in the land and did manage to quieten him down a tad.  Not an easy ask for a second game rookie.  He did have 5 clearances and 7 tackles in among some ordinary patches (not alone!). 

[Dr. Gonzo 24,192]

4 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Our kids were constantly scragged at ball ups too, not sure if it's just my bias (it may happen to all kids) but it seemed noticeable on the weekend

Meant to say MIDS not kids.

And can't edit that post

Edited April 2, 2018 by Dr. Gonzo

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

1 hour ago, D4Life said:

I only saw 20 minutes of the game, mostly second half and Martin would tackle Max in the ruck as his first action, was let do it. The umpires don’t seem to like giving Max frees!

We often don't get the decisions that other clubs seem to get quite regularly D4.  We must be well hated among the umpiring fraternity who most likely grew up barracking for other Vic clubs.

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

Not that big on most stats, especially in isolation (watching the game always a better option!) but a few interesting ones in comparison to last week....

• We doubled our contested marks from 7 to 14
• We had 7 more marks inside 50.  Up from 10 to 17
• Tackles inside 50 more than doubled from 8 to 17
• Intercepts were up a little from 72 to 79
• We reduced our turnovers by 1 !!

 

[Vagg 2,439]

8 hours ago, Deemented Are Go! said:

Great point Binman - I agree Speed was no-nonsense and just called the actual footy, unlike some of his boofhead contemporaries  And from memory (haven't watched a second time yet), seemingly with a bit of soft spot for the Dees? Or perhaps his company (Roos) was rubbing off?

Agreed!  Don't recall hearing him call a game before.  Excellent job.  Kinda reminded me of Clinton Grybas.  Just googled him, and it seems he's being used by Fox for a number of sports, including AFL & Thugby.  Would be nice to get him full-time on the AFL!  Sure makes a mockery of some of the other boof-heads they are inflicting upon us these days!

[MudDogs Gawn Win.. someday 499]

I won’t be convinced this team has what it takes to make the 8 and then do some damage until it can mercilessly Hammer a team instead of just creating a 5-8 goal buffer and then doing enough to fall across the line..

 I get more nervous when we are 6-8 goals in front. Because I know we’ll take the foot off the pedal..

Better than when we couldn’t get to this stage, but it’s time this team/club grows up.

[Pates 9,660]

A thought occurred to me about us this year just thinking about 2017. I remember just before we were due to play the tigers last year I was very unconvinced by them. They limped across the line a couple of times and got some serious luck early but things clicked for them. 

I’m not suggesting that we’re going to do the exact same thing but early form isn’t necessarily an indicator for the entire year. Look at the Swans. 0-6 but managed to storm home. 

I guess what I’m saying is we didn’t play well over the weekend but we got the 4 points. We played well for 3 quarters last week and were very unlucky (shooting ourselves in the foot) to not win. 

If we can ride this early form fluctuation and get more wins than losses than our hopes of finals and more will hopefully come to fruition. 

We just HAVE to beat North this weekend. 

[DistrACTION Jackson 8,663]

4 hours ago, Pates said:

A thought occurred to me about us this year just thinking about 2017. I remember just before we were due to play the tigers last year I was very unconvinced by them. They limped across the line a couple of times and got some serious luck early but things clicked for them. 

I’m not suggesting that we’re going to do the exact same thing but early form isn’t necessarily an indicator for the entire year. Look at the Swans. 0-6 but managed to storm home. 

I guess what I’m saying is we didn’t play well over the weekend but we got the 4 points. We played well for 3 quarters last week and were very unlucky (shooting ourselves in the foot) to not win. 

If we can ride this early form fluctuation and get more wins than losses than our hopes of finals and more will hopefully come to fruition. 

We just HAVE to beat North this weekend. 

You definitely don't want to be playing your best football in March/April and as long as you are getting wins that is the main thing. I will back the team to gel better as the season goes on.

[rjay 24,887]

19 hours ago, binman said:

Brendan Speed is a really good commentator

Consistently got players names wrong for a start...

I thought he was very average at best.

[Vagg 2,439]

1 hour ago, rjay said:

Consistently got players names wrong for a start...

I thought he was very average at best.

Well, given HIS name is actually BRENTON Speed, I guess we are gonna have to cut him a little slack...!  LOL

[ManDee 7,124]

On 4/1/2018 at 1:03 PM, Mondê said:

I was born in 1990 so just missed him, I've seen footage though...looked a match winner.

Monde. Allen Jacovich was a freak. He was the fastest player to reach 50 goals. He kicked  8 goals 8 points in his forth game then in his tenth game he kicked 11 goal 9 points 1 oob on full. 187cm same height as Oliver but about 15kg heavier. I recommend watching his highlight packages, he could just turn it on like no other player I have seen.

Oliver is my current favorite player, I wonder what he will be like in a few years.

Note:- Jacovich's first game was as a 23yo. 

[Leoncelli_36 2,264]

Just watched the 3rd 1/4 again...we had a chance to absolutely bury them..we were 41 points up..12 minutes left. Petracca misses a gimme set shot..Bugg then misses a snap he should have nailed...Then Gawn goes off with about 11 minutes on the clock. Christensen gets a suspect holding the man call and goals.  Stef Martin gets another free and misses and suddenly the crowd is right in the game. It was the free that got them into the game. Gawn comes back on and Cameron tackles him straight I the back and play on is called. Cameron gives it to Max and then Cox goals from outside fifty . For 8 minutes of the 3rd we dominated and could have been 10 goals up. We left the door ajar and a dodgy free brought them back into it. 

[DistrACTION Jackson 8,663]

9 minutes ago, Leoncelli_36 said:

Just watched the 3rd 1/4 again...we had a chance to absolutely bury them..we were 41 points up..12 minutes left. Petracca misses a gimme set shot..Bugg then misses a snap he should have nailed...Then Gawn goes off with about 11 minutes on the clock. Christensen gets a suspect holding the man call and goals.  Stef Martin gets another free and misses and suddenly the crowd is right in the game. It was the free that got them into the game. Gawn comes back on and Cameron tackles him straight I the back and play on is called. Cameron gives it to Max and then Cox goals from outside fifty . For 8 minutes of the 3rd we dominated and could have been 10 goals up. We left the door ajar and a dodgy free brought them back into it. 

The umpiring in the second half was deplorable. It wasn't so much the frees that were paid against us, but the ones that weren't paid for us. I remember numerous occasions I had my arms up wondering how it wasn't a free kick.

[Leoncelli_36 2,264]

3 minutes ago, Is Dom Is Good said:

The umpiring in the second half was deplorable. It wasn't so much the frees that were paid against us, but the ones that weren't paid for us. I remember numerous occasions I had my arms up wondering how it wasn't a free kick.

Yep..in that same quarter with about 4 minutes to go and Lions playing tries to break a tackleg 25 out from our goal running across the ground trying to switch..gets caught and drops it..play on called. Then kick goes in to gawn who has three hanging off him including one player with no eyes for the ball and all the commentators suggest it is and free..play on..while up the other end Cameron cops a free for a touch on the shoulder. I am biased in the moment, but when you watch it back after and still think you are hard done by, you know that you probably have. Everything shifted after Fritsch went off. We should have goaled from that play bUT for the neck breaker from the Lions player that held up play. Should have been a fifty. 

[binman 42,683]

Another random comment on the game: 

I was watching a bit of the dogs v wc game and the commentators were talking about how hard it would be for dogs to make finals given that statistically it is quite rare for sides who lose their first two games to make finals. Not sure how accurate that is but it did make me think how bad it would have been for our chances this year if we had lost the lions game. 

[sue 9,096]

Re the dangerous act against Fritsch, it is perplexing that the rule of the week was to pay frees for dangerous tackles (some not very dangerous), but a dangerous 'tackle' after a mark is taken is considered fine by the umpires, the AFL and commentators.   Should have been 50m and at least a fine.

[Leoncelli_36 2,264]

22 minutes ago, Is Dom Is Good said:

The umpiring in the second half was deplorable. It wasn't so much the frees that were paid against us, but the ones that weren't paid for us. I remember numerous occasions I had my arms up wondering how it wasn't a free kick.

Yep..in that same quarter with about 4 minutes to go and Lions player tries to break a tackle 25 out from our goal running across the ground trying to8 switch..gets caught and drops it..play on called. Then kick goes in to gawn who has three hanging off him including one player with no eyes for the ball and all the commentators suggest it is and free..play on..