Farewell Jack Watts

[Demon Disciple 12,141]

3 hours ago, Bobby McKenzie said:

Hoorah, sanity rules!

sanity may rule bobby, but i doubt it is going to prevail.

[Jimcor2 125]

1 hour ago, Petraccattack said:

This is a joke right?

He will be 27 when next season starts.  He has shown to be a handy 3rd forward. That's it.

'One of the greats' is a laughable statement...  in fact I can only assume your post was satire.

 

Edit - I respect your support of the club over such a  long period, dont wanna make it sound like I'm having a pot shot at you.  But you're way off base on Watts.

So much for my last post!  For what it's worth, P.Attack, your disrespect for me and my opinion is only exceeded by your disrespect for the player and his efforts.  If you don't 'wanna' (sic) make it sound like a potshot at me, don't make such an arrogant and personally directed statement.  If you can't respect my opinion, so be it.  Frankly, this board would be much better served with you off it.  Satire is about the use of mockery and ridicule to criticise.  That wasn't my intention and you needn't try and suggest it was.  CP should ask you to stop bringing his name into disrepute.

[bing181 9,240]

1 hour ago, Deeprived Childhood said:

Is it too late to reimagine his role in the team if he stays?

Every coach we've had has tried to "reimagine his role". We've seen him as a sweeper across the back line, ruck, forward, mid, you name it. At the end of the day he just finished 21st in our B&F. (I know injuries, blah blah blah).

(FWIW he doesn't have the tank to be a mid.)

[jnrmac 20,090]

9 hours ago, Bobby McKenzie said:

Because Goodwin and company have personal grudges against Watts overridng their clear thinking on the matter. I just hope Goodwin is not plain dumb and can see his folly. Lost a lot of faith in him and in Jones who ratted on Jack according to reports. Used to love Jonesy.

 

9 hours ago, sue said:

Several posters have said that the FD had Watts' card marked from early in the year. If so, why would they have given him such good numbers in the Bluey in the first half of the year?  Surely they'd mark him down even if objectively he might have deserved the numbers. 

 

Wow we are seeing some unhinged comments now. 

[buck_nekkid 5,866]

A question (and I am not diving back 70 pages or so...).  For the conspiracy theorists, didn’t Connors say something to the effect that Melb had done ‘everything right’ in the wat this was handled in one of the early pressers?

[jnrmac 20,090]

8 hours ago, Bobby McKenzie said:

Plain as the nose on your face. You don't have to be a genius to work that out. Can you prove my assertion is wrong?

Can you prove there is not a green teapot orbiting the moon? 

No. didn't think so.

 

you never did debating or logic at school Did you?

[rpfc 28,449]

8 hours ago, bing181 said:

Don't agree. Getting rid of a well-liked player is always going to cause angst and a backlash. There's no way of "handling it" that that doesn't happen. The statements coming out of the club have been measured and reasonable, no-one's publicly trashing Watts.

If you want an example of a club badly handling a player leaving, look at the Adelaide/Lever situation, where the club (and players/captain) have gone out of their way to crucify him.

Weren't you the one arguing that the merits of a decision are about the process of making that decision and not the outcomes? 

Because you are talking about outcomes, which I agree with - namely that there is no way to cleanly trade a popular player, but my critique is about the process; not giving the player the opportunity to have an honest exit interview.

We could have done all the right things and it still be a painful experience for all, I just don't think we did all the right things.

[bing181 9,240]

42 minutes ago, rpfc said:

We could have done all the right things and it still be a painful experience for all, I just don't think we did all the right things.

I wouldn't know - and suggest that you wouldn't either? Jack could have been given a full and frank appraisal of his year, but nothing more. Is that "not doing the right thing".

To be honest, I don't know if in the two days after the last match (which is all they have apparently) the FD and everyone else involved could have come to decisions about trade/list matters. Not forgetting that until late on that last Sunday afternoon, everyone was hoping/presuming that we'd be playing finals - I don't know that to trade/not to trade Jack Watts would have been at the forefront of anyone's thinking at that stage or even in the 48 hours following. The idea of moving Jack on may well have not concretely arisen till the days/week following when the FD sat down and started to look at the future and review the year in the cold light of day - which is when Connors was contacted (I believe).

Of course, I have no idea, just putting forward a possible (and plausible?) reading for why the club may not have done the "wrong" thing.

Even then, I'm not sure of the protocol for exit interviews vis à vis future trade options etc. I seem to remember in the case of Tyson he was in holiday mode post-season at GWS and got a call out of the blue from his manager about a potential trade to Melbourne.

Edited October 10, 2017 by bing181

[old55 23,595]

12 hours ago, At the break of Gawn said:

Whatever your grievances are with Paul Roos' comments, I think everyone on this board can agree that the last point is the most damning. A player of 9 years deserved to be told that up front. Screams of cowardliness by the FD not to tell the guy directly. 

I don't necessarily agree.  If Jack still didn't get the message in the exit interview,  it's very possible that's what tipped the FD over to the trade decision when they reviewed how it went.   The exit interview is a 2 way communication.

[Biffen 12,943]

I've been reliably informed that Jack is definitely leaving...........

the cafe.

 

[jackaub 1,402]

 

If Jack really loves the club wants to play with his mates he has a contract.

He can decide to stay and not get traded.That of course would mean he would have to take on board all that the FD have told him knuckle down and earn and keep his spot in the team.

It appears Jack is not prepared to do this.

That makes me sad that we will lose Jack for a poor pick. In the end it has always always been up to Jack.

The other thing to understand is the game has changed dramatically in the past few years with frenetic high energy style

A laconic player well skilled player who stops to consider options probably isnt as valuable as he might have been 9 long years ago

 

[Jimcor2 125]

12 minutes ago, Fifty-5 said:

I don't necessarily agree.  If Jack still didn't get the message in the exit interview,  it's very possible that's what tipped the FD over to the trade decision when they reviewed how it went.   The exit interview is a 2 way communication.

This is not right.  No one should be surprised by what they find out at an exit interview.  Competent coaching would require continuous feedback about a player's performance and an 'exit interview' should merely be an opportunity to summarise the season past and agree on a strategy for the future.  If there is any doubt, this meeting is the best opportunity to clarify any confusion, I would have thought.

[buck_nekkid 5,866]

Just now, Jimcor2 said:

This is not right.  No one should be surprised by what they find out at an exit interview.  Competent coaching would require continuous feedback about a player's performance and an 'exit interview' should merely be an opportunity to summarise the season past and agree on a strategy for the future.  If there is any doubt, this meeting is the best opportunity to clarify any confusion, I would have thought.

I think the suggestion is that the FD communicated their thoughts, and JW implied his own meaning.  From this, it can be assumed that the FD saw that JW and the club were really not on the same page from this event.  This is concerning in itself.  If the conversation was about not negotiables and his buy in, this distance between FD and player is highly significant.  

From the comment in the press ‘JW wants a relationship coach, one who not only tells him his deficits, but also praised his strengths’.  This sounds like he is looking for a club that will blow smoke up his rear and tell him how good he is.  I dont think this is the hard edged, success focused approach we see emerging at Melbourne.

It will be sad if this is the case, but this gap seems to me to be the issue behind all of this.

[Dr. Gonzo 24,222]

6 hours ago, Bobby McKenzie said:

 

 

I know of two that are not happy namely Hogan and Gawn.  Doesn't mean there aren't others. They have openly expressed their disappointment. I bet you Jeffy probably doesn't think its a great idea as well. Hogan Garlett and Watts provided a strong team in attack.

You know or you're assuming based on what's in the public sphere?

[Dr. Gonzo 24,222]

6 hours ago, Jimcor2 said:

Perhaps my last contribution to this discussion.  I have watched Jack Watts both during games and at training since he joined the club.  I was at his debut when no-one flew the flag on his behalf when he got his first touch and right through to the end of 2016 when I moved O/S.  I have seen him run selflessly week after week and watched him being ignored by his team mates.  And wondered why the coaches didn't instruct others to honour leads.  I have been amazed that his loyalty to the club hasn't wavered and wondered why, unlike another No.1 pick, he didn't tell the MFC to GAGF.

I still believe that the club will be poorer IN EVERY REGARD if he goes.  To me, it is a sad indictment of all (except Roos) his coaches both line and senior that they haven't been able to help him reach his potential.  Macca may be great with the kids but he too has let JW down.  If he does leave, I hope that he continues to disappoint but I know in my gut that he's a great player and will rise to the top with the right coaching.

I have watched this team since 1957 and genuinely believe JW has the wherewithal to be one of the greats.  Goodwin is simply wrong and everyone will suffer for his poor judgement.

He has the talent but not the ambition, desire, application, single-mindedness, fervour etc to be an all time great.

To be honest I think he'd struggle to make a best 22 this century let alone be an all-time great of the club.

[Ethan Tremblay 30,861]

153 pages, 153 games played. Is it a coincidence? I think not. You heard it here first.

#ETthetradebreaker.

Edited October 10, 2017 by Ethan Tremblay

[Deemented Are Go! 3,679]

6 minutes ago, Ethan Tremblay said:

153 pages, 153 games played. Is it a coincidence? I think not. You heard it here first.

#ETthetradebreaker.

Does that mean we can shut down this [censored] thread?

[—coach— 3,496]

7 hours ago, Ethan Tremblay said:

That’s definitely an actual thing. I thought babies were suppose to sleep heaps, especially at night..

Whoever came up with that quote originally clearly has never had kids! Babies sleep really well when you want to be awake and like crap when you want to be asleep! Little sods! ?

PS I love my kids and would only trade them for 3 first round picks each.

[old55 23,595]

21 minutes ago, Jimcor2 said:

This is not right.  No one should be surprised by what they find out at an exit interview.  Competent coaching would require continuous feedback about a player's performance and an 'exit interview' should merely be an opportunity to summarise the season past and agree on a strategy for the future.  If there is any doubt, this meeting is the best opportunity to clarify any confusion, I would have thought.

I agree it shouldn't be a surprise, but what if it is despite all the coaching that has gone on?  Coaching is a two way street.  Some people cannot or will not be coached.

[Jimcor2 125]

6 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

He has the talent but not the ambition, desire, application, single-mindedness, fervour etc to be an all time great.

To be honest I think he'd struggle to make a best 22 this century let alone be an all-time great of the club.

What you fail to acknowledge is that raw talent and intelligence is, of course, generally not enough unless it is supported by competent coaching.  We are taliking about the possibility of realising potential and sadly, Jack has had more than a fair share of really poor coaches.  I'm hoping but am not overly optimistic that Goodwin is not another one that a talented playing group has to tolerate.  Once again, I thing Roos is the stand out exception to the coaching debacles.  Elvis has now definitely left the building.

[—coach— 3,496]

8 hours ago, Rusty Nails said:

P.F. I for one have never witnessed a D'land meltdown!  And I can think of 186 reasons that it never will either! 

Maybe when this thread gets to 186 pages the internet will explode ?

[Deemented Are Go! 3,679]

1 minute ago, --coach-- said:

Whoever came up with that quote originally clearly has never had kids! Babies sleep really well when you want to be awake and like crap when you want to be asleep! Little sods! ?

PS I love my kids and would only trade them for 3 first round picks each.

How many you got? We could discuss a straight swap?

[Guest]

58 minutes ago, rpfc said:

Weren't you the one arguing that the merits of a decision are about the process of making that decision and not the outcomes? 

Because you are talking about outcomes, which I agree with - namely that there is no way to cleanly trade a popular player, but my critique is about the process; not giving the player the opportunity to have an honest exit interview.

We could have done all the right things and it still be a painful experience for all, I just don't think we did all the right things.

I agree with this in principle and I would be disappointed if Watts was blindsided but I also find it highly unlikely.

I think you will get slightly coloured "facts" from both sides and I don't think I possess enough information to judge the club on that yet. 

[Guest]

15 minutes ago, Ethan Tremblay said:

 

#ETthetradebreaker.

You know if you keep calling yourself that people will start to believe it and you will become one of those elusive and almost mystical entities.... A "source"

[—coach— 3,496]

6 minutes ago, Deemented Are Go! said:

How many you got? We could discuss a straight swap?

2 girls (4 and 2), oldest kicks on both legs at least 5m and youngest loves to hold the ball and run away. I’ll package them both up in a deal for daisy?