3 minutes ago, Pollyanna said:

Jackson is going to play - let's get that straight.

The problem as @Axis of Bob points out is that it's difficult to accommodate B.Brown, Weid, Jackson and Fritsch in the same forward line unless Fritsch can seriously up his defensive work and get over the one arm tackles etc.  Weid's agility and ground ball skills are sadly under-rated here but he's not going to lay fwd 50 tackles and neither is Brown on a consistent basis.  I think Jackson is different and is likely to instill every type of nightmare opposition defenders fear.

Then there's Melksham who is very dangerous and can play a negating role on attacking half-backs but doesn't provide general fwd 50 pressure. 

We need 7 in the forward 50 rotations: B.Brown, Weid, Jackson, Fritsch, Melksham, Pickett, Spargo? 

Can all forward 50 pressure be up to Pickett, Spargo and Jackson?

If Brown comes then Petty plays back and I do like that.  It also gives us depth if someone gets injured in game or for an extended period.

It's not easy, I could see an outcome like @DeeSpencer fears that if Brown comes then it's a battle between Weid and Fritsch for a place and we end up playing one at Casey and trading a valuable resource for peanuts at the end of 2021.

Advocates either way need to come up with their full forward line 7 for a complete solution.

Great post. This doesn't also include the fact that we have a logjam in the midfield and one midfielder (Harmes or Brayshaw) either misses out on selection or we have a midfielder rotate through a spot in the forward line.

I know you like Viney forward, but my view is Petracca should start in the middle for centre bounces and then almost play as a permanent forward after the game re-starts. He is the best forward in our  midfield group and can play more minutes that way. I would use Dangerfield (vs Collingwood) and the way Dusty plays as the template for Petracca. This way, Oliver, Viney, Brayshaw and Harmes can all play midfield, along with Petracca in the hybrid role.

I would also consider pushing Melksham back to half back. I know he struggled a bit in the backline in 2017, but he was playing as the deepest small defender then. Hibberd/Lockhart can play the deep small defender role for us.

I think Ben Brown and Weideman would play the same role and share many of the same weaknesses. I am circumspect whether Brown is the right fit for us. I also think we are underestimating the improvement of Jackson, Weideman and Fritsch have in them. And that Brown has probably already played his best football.

I don't like both Pickett and Spargo in the same side and much prefer Hunt/Hannon. Having both is one too many midgets.

My seven, without Brown would be Weideman, Jackson, Fritsch, Petracca, Hunt, Pickett and another midsize player (which could be Melksham but I think we need someone who tackles). I think if Brown becomes the seventh player we become too top heavy and leak pressure.

3 hours ago, A F said:

Whilst that forwardline could work, I think we need to be far more innovative and go harder at some zippy forwards on the fringe of other teams and we need an x factor match winner in the mix too.

IMV we can't play Fritsch and Melksham in the same forwardline, and I think Goodwin realised this by the end of the year. So they either both need to invent themselves or we can't play both.

I'd be keeping Charlie on the list and trying to play him between midfield and half forward, but we need to get consistency out of our forwardline.

Brown, Weideman and Fritsch is quite a potent three target set up. Kozzie will be better next year, but we need 3 or 4 others that can apply pressure and x factor to the set up. Jackson is apart of that mix too.

This. We need to move out the excess mid-sized forwards and replace them with fully-fledged small forwards that are willing to pressure and tackle.

This may be an unpopular view here but I think Fristch is exceptional as a forward. Melky has great skills but he's probably the one that has to move a for a pressure forward.

Our permanent forward line could have:

Weideman

Brown

Fritsch

Kozzy

Small forward 2

Small forward 3

Then you'd have Jackson rotating through the ruck or replacing one of the extra smalls if the matchups make sense.

Whatever happens, we got to have more smalls in there. Currently, we have one genuine pressure player (Kozzy). That's not enough. 

2 hours ago, Fat Tony said:

Great post. This doesn't also include the fact that we have a logjam in the midfield and one midfielder (Harmes or Brayshaw) either misses out on selection or we have a midfielder rotate through a spot in the forward line.

I know you like Viney forward, but my view is Petracca should start in the middle for centre bounces and then almost play as a permanent forward after the game re-starts. He is the best forward in our  midfield group and can play more minutes that way. I would use Dangerfield (vs Collingwood) and the way Dusty plays as the template for Petracca. This way, Oliver, Viney, Brayshaw and Harmes can all play midfield, along with Petracca in the hybrid role.

I would also consider pushing Melksham back to half back. I know he struggled a bit in the backline in 2017, but he was playing as the deepest small defender then. Hibberd/Lockhart can play the deep small defender role for us.

I think Ben Brown and Weideman would play the same role and share many of the same weaknesses. I am circumspect whether Brown is the right fit for us. I also think we are underestimating the improvement of Jackson, Weideman and Fritsch have in them. And that Brown has probably already played his best football.

I don't like both Pickett and Spargo in the same side and much prefer Hunt/Hannon. Having both is one too many midgets.

My seven, without Brown would be Weideman, Jackson, Fritsch, Petracca, Hunt, Pickett and another midsize player (which could be Melksham but I think we need someone who tackles). I think if Brown becomes the seventh player we become too top heavy and leak pressure.

I think Melkshams’ place is at Casey - if it continues. Most annoying player on the list IMO 

8 minutes ago, Cheesy D. Pun said:

This. We need to move out the excess mid-sized forwards and replace them with fully-fledged small forwards that are willing to pressure and tackle.

This may be an unpopular view here but I think Fristch is exceptional as a forward. Melky has great skills but he's probably the one that has to move a for a pressure forward.

Our permanent forward line could have:

Weideman

Brown

Fritsch

Kozzy

Small forward 2

Small forward 3

Then you'd have Jackson rotating through the ruck or replacing one of the extra smalls if the matchups make sense.

Whatever happens, we got to have more smalls in there. Currently, we have one genuine pressure player (Kozzy). That's not enough. 

Hunt for one of those vacant spots...

2 hours ago, Fat Tony said:

Great post. This doesn't also include the fact that we have a logjam in the midfield and one midfielder (Harmes or Brayshaw) either misses out on selection or we have a midfielder rotate through a spot in the forward line.

I know you like Viney forward, but my view is Petracca should start in the middle for centre bounces and then almost play as a permanent forward after the game re-starts. He is the best forward in our  midfield group and can play more minutes that way. I would use Dangerfield (vs Collingwood) and the way Dusty plays as the template for Petracca. This way, Oliver, Viney, Brayshaw and Harmes can all play midfield, along with Petracca in the hybrid role.

I would also consider pushing Melksham back to half back. I know he struggled a bit in the backline in 2017, but he was playing as the deepest small defender then. Hibberd/Lockhart can play the deep small defender role for us.

I think Ben Brown and Weideman would play the same role and share many of the same weaknesses. I am circumspect whether Brown is the right fit for us. I also think we are underestimating the improvement of Jackson, Weideman and Fritsch have in them. And that Brown has probably already played his best football.

I don't like both Pickett and Spargo in the same side and much prefer Hunt/Hannon. Having both is one too many midgets.

My seven, without Brown would be Weideman, Jackson, Fritsch, Petracca, Hunt, Pickett and another midsize player (which could be Melksham but I think we need someone who tackles). I think if Brown becomes the seventh player we become too top heavy and leak pressure.

If you are correct about Jacksons ability to take the next step, we don't actually need Ben Brown. I would like to keep the pressure off him but it is worth thinking about.

25 minutes ago, adonski said:

Hunt for one of those vacant spots...

Yep. Good call. I almost typed it.

Fritsch was a stop gap FF this year. He needs to realise what @Pollyannais intimating - there is no role for you unless you adapt your game to the skill set required. He needs to get out of the square, get up the ground, show defensive pressure, and deliver to forwards well if he is to stay in the 22. 
 

My 7 (in Brown scenario)

Weid CHF up the ground. 
Brown FF Lead up

Jackson isolated but outside 50 (Gawn deep when resting)

Petracca/resting mid

Pickett

Spargo

Fritsch/Hunt/Melksham - whoever can be good enough at delivering, pressuring, and getting out of Browns way.

As a thought:

Did Fritsch do the defendive stuff in 18/19 when playing back and wing?

It could be that his role this year, effectively as a FF, meant he wasnt really in the positions to do the small/medium forward things.

Fritsch is a natural half forward flanker, Plays tall or small,so we could use Brown and Weideman in the key posts .

Jackson is mobile enough To play the other flank or pocket as a third tall who helps out in the ruck and would be a very difficult match up .

Pickett and Melksham or a resting Petracca make up the other two spots.

7 hours ago, BW511 said:

The way I look at it, if we bring in the 200cm/6'7" Brown, he instantly requires the biggest defender.

The slightly smaller Weid at 195cm/6'5" then gets number 2 defender.

This has two positives, we know Brown can already kick goals on the best defenders, his 'body of work' is very good.

Weid can then get a better shot at things with a slightly smaller/lesser defender.

I don't care if we have to change our game plan up to accommodate this, because whatever it is it doesn't work anyway.

Worth noting, T-Mac is smaller again at 194cm/6'4"

 

 

Great post.  This is exactly the reason why Brown (or someone proven at take the #1 defender) works.

8 hours ago, Pollyanna said:

Jackson is going to play - let's get that straight.

The problem as @Axis of Bob points out is that it's difficult to accommodate B.Brown, Weid, Jackson and Fritsch in the same forward line unless Fritsch can seriously up his defensive work and get over the one arm tackles etc.  Weid's agility and ground ball skills are sadly under-rated here but he's not going to lay fwd 50 tackles and neither is Brown on a consistent basis.  I think Jackson is different and is likely to instill every type of nightmare opposition defenders fear.

Then there's Melksham who is very dangerous and can play a negating role on attacking half-backs but doesn't provide general fwd 50 pressure. 

We need 7 in the forward 50 rotations: B.Brown, Weid, Jackson, Fritsch, Melksham, Pickett, Spargo? 

Can all forward 50 pressure be up to Pickett, Spargo and Jackson?

If Brown comes then Petty plays back and I do like that.  It also gives us depth if someone gets injured in game or for an extended period.

It's not easy, I could see an outcome like @DeeSpencer fears that if Brown comes then it's a battle between Weid and Fritsch for a place and we end up playing one at Casey and trading a valuable resource for peanuts at the end of 2021.

Advocates either way need to come up with their full forward line 7 for a complete solution.

The number I'm focusing on isn't really 7, it's 6.

If we have Brown and we start at a centre bounce with Brown, Weideman and Jackson in our forward 50, who are the other three and can we lock the ball in our forward half from a centre clearance?

One way is to dominate aerially - Brown, Weideman, Jackson and Fritsch in the forward line is going to be a handful for any defence.

The other is if it hits the deck. In that set up, we have two smalls (Pickett and one other - say a resting Viney/Petracca/Harmes, or another small like Spargo/Hunt/ANB). Can it work? I think so. As I posted somewhere else, it will feel a lot better if Fritsch improves his forward half defensive work.

We then have another player on the bench who rotates through - e.g. we have Spargo and Pickett in the side, with Viney/Petracca rotating through their spot and the bench). But at any given time we have to have a forward line that can compete aerially and/or when it hits the deck.

I see the concern with going with all of Brown, Weideman and Jackson. But I also see a concern if we go with Weideman and Jackson alone (with Fritsch third tall). That set up doesn't look strong enough in the air, at least not in 2021 (Jackson still being 19). 

Jones coming off the bench?

6 hours ago, Cheesy D. Pun said:

This. We need to move out the excess mid-sized forwards and replace them with fully-fledged small forwards that are willing to pressure and tackle.

This may be an unpopular view here but I think Fristch is exceptional as a forward. Melky has great skills but he's probably the one that has to move a for a pressure forward.

Our permanent forward line could have:

Weideman

Brown

Fritsch

Kozzy

Small forward 2

Small forward 3

Then you'd have Jackson rotating through the ruck or replacing one of the extra smalls if the matchups make sense.

Whatever happens, we got to have more smalls in there. Currently, we have one genuine pressure player (Kozzy). That's not enough. 

i'd be lining up

Fritsch Weid Spargo

Kozzy Brown Jackson

of current list Bedford off the bench

but i'd love us to target Narkle - allows trac to rest forward more often

and at least one of Ronke, Aarts, Higgins, ZLangdon to potentially out perform Spargo and Bedford as genuine smalls

Hannan, Hunt, ANB, AVB, Melky out of the picture, baring injury

6 hours ago, rpfc said:

Fritsch was a stop gap FF this year. He needs to realise what @Pollyannais intimating - there is no role for you unless you adapt your game to the skill set required. He needs to get out of the square, get up the ground, show defensive pressure, and deliver to forwards well if he is to stay in the 22. 

in fairness to Bailey, he is just playing where the coach puts him. if our tall fwds performed, I reckon he would have been happy to play HF or take the 3rd defender 

his delivery inside 50 is arguably the best in the side so I reckon he will excel in that role

Providing we landed Brown I would go with:

Tall Forward 1: Ben Brown

Tall Forward 2: Sam Weideman

Tall Forward 3/ Midfield (Ruck and Inside Mid) (50/50 split): Luke Jackson

Medium Forward 1: Bayley Fritsch

Medium Forward 2/ Inside Mid (50/50 split): Christian Petracca

Small Forward 1: Kozzy Pickett

Small Forward 2: Jack Viney

Medium Forward/ Wing (50/50 split): ??? (Vandenburg? Hunt?)

Small Forward/ Medium Forward: ??? (Spargo? Hunt? Melksham? Hannan?)

 

HF: Fritsch, Weideman, Petracca

F: Pickett, Brown, Viney

 

 

10 hours ago, Pollyanna said:

Jackson is going to play - let's get that straight.

The problem as @Axis of Bob points out is that it's difficult to accommodate B.Brown, Weid, Jackson and Fritsch in the same forward line unless Fritsch can seriously up his defensive work and get over the one arm tackles etc.  Weid's agility and ground ball skills are sadly under-rated here but he's not going to lay fwd 50 tackles and neither is Brown on a consistent basis.  I think Jackson is different and is likely to instill every type of nightmare opposition defenders fear.

Then there's Melksham who is very dangerous and can play a negating role on attacking half-backs but doesn't provide general fwd 50 pressure. 

We need 7 in the forward 50 rotations: B.Brown, Weid, Jackson, Fritsch, Melksham, Pickett, Spargo? 

Can all forward 50 pressure be up to Pickett, Spargo and Jackson?

If Brown comes then Petty plays back and I do like that.  It also gives us depth if someone gets injured in game or for an extended period.

It's not easy, I could see an outcome like @DeeSpencer fears that if Brown comes then it's a battle between Weid and Fritsch for a place and we end up playing one at Casey and trading a valuable resource for peanuts at the end of 2021.

Advocates either way need to come up with their full forward line 7 for a complete solution.

Our 7th forward will be Hunt hopefully not Spargo.

I'm sure Brown and Weid can work together if not competition for spots is a good thing. Fritsch is a flanker and Jackson plays like a ruck rover so they are different players. Obviously Pickett will have to do a lot of the defensive work but we have options to help him in Hunt and Spargo. I say bring Brown to the club I would be rapt.

58 minutes ago, Turner said:

i'd be lining up

Fritsch Weid Spargo

Kozzy Brown Jackson

of current list Bedford off the bench

but i'd love us to target Narkle - allows trac to rest forward more often

and at least one of Ronke, Aarts, Higgins, ZLangdon to potentially out perform Spargo and Bedford as genuine smalls

Hannan, Hunt, ANB, AVB, Melky out of the picture, baring injury

Yep. Don't mind it, at all.

I don't know if any of those potential targets are the answer, but we've got to try something in this space. 

When things go wrong, our focus seems to be on how many talls we have. I think the key is minimising our medium forwards.

You can have three tall forwards, but then you've got to surround them with genuine smalls. Too many times, we'd have Hannan, Melksham and Fritsch in the same forward line, then blame it on the talls when it doesn't work.

Also, If you have more talls and more crumbers, your strategy looks better. The extra tall forces at least one intercept player to play a man and the way you enter becomes a lot less significant.

You can lower your eyes because without the extra zoning defender, there's space to lead into but you can also bomb the ball in, get a contest and bring the little guys in.

This is where I think we too often blame the kicker. If your structure doesn't keep the defence honest, your asking far too much of the bloke with the ball.

Fingers crossed, we can get some solid talent into the forward line over the off-season. 

30 minutes ago, Gawndog98 said:

Providing we landed Brown I would go with:

Tall Forward 1: Ben Brown

Tall Forward 2: Sam Weideman

Tall Forward 3/ Midfield (Ruck and Inside Mid) (50/50 split): Luke Jackson

Medium Forward 1: Bayley Fritsch

Medium Forward 2/ Inside Mid (50/50 split): Christian Petracca

Small Forward 1: Kozzy Pickett

Small Forward 2: Jack Viney

Medium Forward/ Wing (50/50 split): ??? (Vandenburg? Hunt?)

Small Forward/ Medium Forward: ??? (Spargo? Hunt? Melksham? Hannan?)

 

HF: Fritsch, Weideman, Petracca

F: Pickett, Brown, Viney

 

 

I would have Melksham as the medium forward\wing.

 

B: J.SMITH, MAY, LEVER

HB: SALEM, TOMLINSON, HIBBERD

C : LANGDON, PETRACCA, I.SMITH

HF: MELKSHAM, JACKSON, FRITSCH

F: PICKETT, B.BROWN, WEIDEMAN

FOLL: GAWN, OLIVER, VINEY

IC: BRAYSHAW, BAKER, RIVERS, HUNT

 

CASEY

B: LOCKHART(ROOKIE), DRAFT PICK, CHANDLER (ROOKIE)

HB: HORE, DRAFT PICK, NEITSCHKE

C : VANDENBERG, HARMES, KOLODJASHNIJ

HF: DRAFT PICK, PETTY, DRAFT PICK

F: BEDFORD, M.BROWN (ROOKIE), SPARGO

FOLL: BRADTKE (ROOKIE B), SPARROW, JORDON

IC: DRAFT PICK, DRAFT PICK, ROOKIE

 

Edited October 15, 20204 yr by WERRIDEE

Yep. Ben Brown is worth more than just Ben Brown. 

Fritsch finished fifth for total and average marks inside-50 this season, while Weid was 10th for averages and seemed to be gaining confidence in this crucial area. In 2019, Brown was fifth and in 2018 TMac finished fifth - the latter's inability as a target to get near it (7 i-50 marks from 9 games) being a serious factor in our early season inability to score.

Brown pushes the other two down a rung, and having three competent forward marking targets makes us a dangerous aerial threat. Remember, we still rank highly for i-50s. I'm mostly excited by the impact Brown's recruitment would have on Fritsch - a nightmare match-up if given space to move and jump. Add in a roaming Jackson with proper marking potential.

The question over a lack of forward pressure however is fair. Pickett is one chip in place. Maybe Hunt. Sometimes Petracca. Spargo hmm. Bedford who knows. Lockhart too leftfield for a return up front? Melksham is a serious problem. Recruit Tippa alongside Brown and I would do cartwheels for days. Anything else around of this ilk in the draft? 

 

7 hours ago, adonski said:

Hunt for one of those vacant spots...

I’ve been a fan of Hunt, but somehow I get the feeling he upsets the balance of the team. I reckon it’s his personality. His priorities, as suggested at 3qtr time with his liaison with Trac’s nether regions, at a time when his mind should have been on other things, don’t seem to be quite right.

I’m still on the fence. Brown has huge talent and I think the potential to be a huge asset. But I feel he’s fragile. Kangas obviously know something. Why let him go ?? 

9 hours ago, defuture15 said:

Jones coming off the bench?

is that the bench at the bus stop??

Surprising that so many people want to persist with Melksham & Fritsch. They are both very vanilla and whilst they can have good days, they don’t provide genuine excitement or pressure - if we really want to get better, they should be pushed out by better options.

If Brown comes in, I would set up like this:

HFF - Jacko/Trac Weid Spargo

FF - Kozzie Brown (Someone new & zippy)

Trac/Jacko rotating can easily cover the goals Fritsch & Hannan would provide (25ish), both tackle with intent too.

Brown brings 30-40 more goals comfortably

Weid continues improvement for 30+

 

Edited October 15, 20204 yr by BW511

7 hours ago, Grr-owl said:

I’ve been a fan of Hunt, but somehow I get the feeling he upsets the balance of the team. I reckon it’s his personality. His priorities, as suggested at 3qtr time with his liaison with Trac’s nether regions, at a time when his mind should have been on other things, don’t seem to be quite right.

Do you feel the same about the other guy he was doing it with?

21 minutes ago, BW511 said:

Surprising that so many people want to persist with Melksham & Fritsch. They are both very vanilla and whilst they can have good days, they don’t provide genuine excitement or pressure - if we really want to get better, they should be pushed out by better options.

Persist with Fritsch?????

He is only our most consistent  forward the last two years, and probably the best mark in our team.

He is a great young talent and I really don’t get the haters.