Our Failure to Crush Teams

[Lord Travis 10,739]

It's not a problem, yet. Our percentage shows we haven't been able to put teams away. Lots of our matches have been close either way this year. We're able to compete for the most part, but we're not able to put teams away when we should yet.

Yesterday was similar to the Port Adelaide game. We absolutely dominated play but didn't convert that into scoring. We recorded 22 inside 50s, and statistically it was the second most dominant quarter by a team all year. Despite that dominance, we were only 30 something points up. Then the second quarter we were still in control but not taking our opportunities again. We should have legitimately been 60 points up during the second quarter, such was our dominance. The fact we weren't meant the Saints were able to build momentum and come back. The game should've been over in the 2nd quarter. 

As I said, it's not a problem yet at this stage of our development. In the future, we will need to build that killer instinct to keep the foot down and make sure our dominance converts to scoring. Like other good teams, we should be able to end games by half time against lesser opponents. I think with more maturity and synergy between young core players we will start to win by bigger margins that more reflect our dominance in games. At this stage in our development though it's good we are managing to stick tough and win close games. 

In 2018, I expect improvement in this regard though. First of all, we need to beat teams like North. The fact we still drop games to teams like North, Freo etc is definitely a mental application issue which needs to be addressed. I also expect us to start winning bigger next year. No more hard fought single digit wins against teams like Carlton. We should be able to put the foot down and have the match over by half time. 

[Cheap Seats 3,310]

I don't see this as an issue.

The competition is the most even it's been in a long time. There are still floggings but not as many in recent times.

We need to establish ourselves as a consistently good team. Which we havent done. Until that hapoens i don't expect us to [censored] many sides.

 

Small steps

[AzzKikA 2,371]

The good thing is STK got within a kick and we still won by 24, so not only did we control it, when we lost control we gained it back with a bit of authority.

[bandicoot 1,395]

On 25/07/2017 at 6:44 PM, Salems Lot said:

Gee we have changed as a supporter base when we are worrying about this.  As Dory said in Finding Nemo, "just keep winning, just keep winning..."

The best teams have 100 point + wins 2-3 times a year. If we want to be the best then this is the new expectation. 

I think this will come with time when our current core players hit 150 games and 25-26 years age. 

Might be 2-3 years off from this.

[Lord Travis 10,739]

Our lack of killer instinct has just cost us finals. How predictable and disgustingly pathetic. We got 30-40 points up against multiple teams during the year and just took the foot off the gas. We let teams lowly teams dominate us for patches (Pies 1st quarter, Freo last quarter, Brisbane last quarter, North last quarter etc) and just expected we could show up and play for 10 minutes and get the win. I'm [censored] sick of it. The club needs to get serious in a hurry.

The club publicly stated it was aiming for finals in 2016. It failed. The club publicly stated finals for 2017. It failed. Next season we obviously MUST make finals. Top 4 should be the pass mark. If we lose a game where we are heavy favorites, the players and coaches should have to forfeit their match day payments. We cannot keep failing and drastic measures need to be taken if we do not meet the minimum requirements of finals football.

Get serious you [censored] soft [censored]!

[Age 485]

I'm told that the players believe that our game plan is too taxing on them. This I believe is the reason why we haven't gone on with a game this year. It may also explain why we seemed to hit the wall a few weeks ago. 

They get ahead and then try to save energy. Going into what they perceive will be an easier game they think they can take the shortcuts and get it done. Obviously this doesn't work. 

I'd say that the players need to get fitter or get players that will give it everything but it doesn't seem to matter who comes in. The place just drags them down. 

[WattsUp2312 63]

1 hour ago, Age said:

I'm told that the players believe that our game plan is too taxing on them. This I believe is the reason why we haven't gone on with a game this year. It may also explain why we seemed to hit the wall a few weeks ago. 

They get ahead and then try to save energy. Going into what they perceive will be an easier game they think they can take the shortcuts and get it done. Obviously this doesn't work. 

I'd say that the players need to get fitter or get players that will give it everything but it doesn't seem to matter who comes in. The place just drags them down. 

That's a huge call on the players not agreeing with the style - is that from a player?

[jackaub 1,402]

Was that Jackie Boy?

[RalphiusMaximus 6,054]

The issue, once again, is that we have no plan to score goals.  There is absolutely no point in dominating possession and winning contested ball through the  midfield if you can't kick goals.  We win by small margins because we lack the ability to finish our good work with scores and this is entirely due to our lack of a cohesive plan for our forwards.  They don't work for each other.  They don't create space for each other.  They rarely lead.  The NEVER block for each other.  All we ever see from them is clustering at the top of the square and waiting for the long bomb.  All we ever see from our midfielders is blind bombs or chips into the pocket. 

I keep saying this.  Chaplin has to go.  We need someone who can get our forwards playing as a cohesive unit and produce a better plan than "bomb to the hot spot."  Not only has it cost us a place in finals, but it's going to cost us Jesse and possibly the Weed as well.  How long are they going to put up with standing under a high ball waiting to get smashed?  Sooner or later they'll jump ship to a team that knows how to use their forwards. 

[leucopogon 1,519]

5 hours ago, Age said:

I'm told that the players believe that our game plan is too taxing on them. This I believe is the reason why we haven't gone on with a game this year. It may also explain why we seemed to hit the wall a few weeks ago. 

They get ahead and then try to save energy. Going into what they perceive will be an easier game they think they can take the shortcuts and get it done. Obviously this doesn't work. 

I'd say that the players need to get fitter or get players that will give it everything but it doesn't seem to matter who comes in. The place just drags them down. 

Get rid of the turnover merchants, they're the ones that are killing us. When we turn it over, everyone is out of position and then its a game of draw and give to the opposition all the way to the goal line more often than not.

[spirit of norm smith 16,468]

Agreed. We should have beaten Lions at mcg by 8-10 goals 

[spirit of norm smith 16,468]

8 hours ago, RalphiusMaximus said:

The issue, once again, is that we have no plan to score goals.  There is absolutely no point in dominating possession and winning contested ball through the  midfield if you can't kick goals.  We win by small margins because we lack the ability to finish our good work with scores and this is entirely due to our lack of a cohesive plan for our forwards.  They don't work for each other.  They don't create space for each other.  They rarely lead.  The NEVER block for each other.  All we ever see from them is clustering at the top of the square and waiting for the long bomb.  All we ever see from our midfielders is blind bombs or chips into the pocket. 

I keep saying this.  Chaplin has to go.  We need someone who can get our forwards playing as a cohesive unit and produce a better plan than "bomb to the hot spot."  Not only has it cost us a place in finals, but it's going to cost us Jesse and possibly the Weed as well.  How long are they going to put up with standing under a high ball waiting to get smashed?  Sooner or later they'll jump ship to a team that knows how to use their forwards. 

Agree

overhandball

bomb to the pockets

realyy !!!

[praha 11,240]

One thing I have noticed is the style dictates high percentate shots most of the time. We go for the short pass when entering 50 so we rarely have shots on goal on the run. Collingwood pansied us on Saturday by running and streaming down field and taking their chances. We get a shot within 50 and pass it off to a player on a slightly better angle, who misses. Why the [censored] would Mcdonald pass it off to Tyson who hasn't kicked a set shot goal since under 10s? 

Against Brisbane we ignored open shots and instead tried the short option to Hogan. Brisbane went bang bang bang and arguably cost us a finals spot. We played too safe.

I think it's less the style itself and more so players being unable or unwilling to take risks. We may have played a hard and aggressive style during the year but there was nothing flashing or overly exciting about it, which gives off the perception that the year was tough to watch, which it was. Games were mostly either tight wins or losses. 

Make no mistake that missing the finals wasnt just about losing games. It was also about being unable to really bury teams when we had the chance. We were hit hard by injuries but that doesn't justify 7 straight goals by the opposition, or allowing an opponent to cut down a 40 point lead. Collingsood was great on Saturday but part of the reason why they're not playing finals is because they let teams go on runs like we did, something like 7 of the last 9 goals. That's the different between finals and Mad Monday. And we fit firmly in that basket with the Pies. Just an average team that doesn't know how to *really* get it done.

[bandicoot 1,395]

11 hours ago, Age said:

I'm told that the players believe that our game plan is too taxing on them. This I believe is the reason why we haven't gone on with a game this year. It may also explain why we seemed to hit the wall a few weeks ago. 

They get ahead and then try to save energy. Going into what they perceive will be an easier game they think they can take the shortcuts and get it done. Obviously this doesn't work. 

I'd say that the players need to get fitter or get players that will give it everything but it doesn't seem to matter who comes in. The place just drags them down. 

They are 100% correct. The manic pressure that they need isn't sustainable. 

Not sure why we can't replicate clarksons game plan that has won them 4 premierships. Get the players foot skills up to a higher standard and play keeping off. No need to recreate the wheel

[binman 43,020]

5 hours ago, leucopogon said:

Get rid of the turnover merchants, they're the ones that are killing us. When we turn it over, everyone is out of position and then its a game of draw and give to the opposition all the way to the goal line more often than not.

Yep. Spot on. To the easy oppo goals you can add all the blown scoring opportunities when players miss easy clear targets in the forward 50 and/or not kicking it the forwards advantage.

[Bates Mate 4,487]

1 hour ago, binman said:

Get rid of the turnover merchants, they're the ones that are killing us. When we turn it over, everyone is out of position and then its a game of draw and give to the opposition all the way to the goal line more often than not.

100% agree

Hunt , Vince, Tyson, Jones, Harmes, T.Mac, Lewis, have generally had a least one awful clanger per game that either costs us scoring a goal or gives the opposition a goal. It's a concern that of all our list there are only 4-5 players I trust with ball in hand.  Jetta, Watts, Brayshaw, Salem, Oliver (who only kicks it 2-3 times a game)

 

 

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

On 25/07/2017 at 6:41 PM, Skuit said:

There are of course fluctuations in games, and ‘putting the cue in the rack’ to conserve energy or guard against injuries, but we just can’t seem to put our foot on the throat of the opposition when they’re down – a mark of a ruthless, champion team, and so important as to % with the competition evening out. And junk-time goals against are a serious %-killer.

 

We also seem to have some strange 40-point barrier, and I know this well, as the only time I ever really have a flutter is when I have a sense we might unexpectedly dominate and take the big-odds 39+ option (it’s been killing me, although we got across the magical line against Adelaide with a last-minute goal to Kent).

 

The past two seasons; lead progression points and final margins (I’ve left out 2015 but it’s a similar pattern in our wins). Outside of these matches, we only capitalised against GC and Brisbane to record larger winning margins, while the Bulldogs this season was a reasonable example of cue in the rack.

 

2017

 

Port

 

20.46 2^nd – 43  /  Final – 23

 

Western

 

25.24 2^nd – 40  /  32.29 3^rd – 50  /  Final – 57

 

Gold Coast

 

18.37 4^th – 34  /  25.22 4^th – 41  /  Final – 35

 

Adelaide

 

6.56 4^th – 39  /  Final – 41

 

Essendon

 

3.59 4^th – 45  /  Final – 38

 

Saints

 

8.33 3^rd – 34  /  8.08 4^th – 42  /  Final – 30

 

2016

 

Port

 

17.53 2^nd – 43  /  Final – 40

 

Freo

 

16.20 2^nd – 43  /  12.47 3^rd – 50  /  Final – 32

 

Collingwood

 

20.55 4^th – 55  /  Final – 46

 

Richmond

 

30.34 4^th – 39

 

  /  Final – 33

 

Collingwood

 

10.26 2^nd – 42  /  18.22 3^rd – 39  /  Final – 35

 

 

 

Thread of the year.

[Lucifers Hero 39,870]

14 hours ago, Age said:

I'm told that the players believe that our game plan is too taxing on them. This I believe is the reason why we haven't gone on with a game this year. It may also explain why we seemed to hit the wall a few weeks ago. 

They get ahead and then try to save energy. Going into what they perceive will be an easier game they think they can take the shortcuts and get it done. Obviously this doesn't work. 

I'd say that the players need to get fitter or get players that will give it everything but it doesn't seem to matter who comes in. The place just drags them down. 

That is not surprising since most of the team have had only a few preseasons.  I think those guys are giving it their all but do need to conserve energy.  Many of them should have been rested at some stage during the year.

The best coaches have a game plan that suits the players they have.  Then develop it in tandem as the players develop.

That is what Roos did at Sydney - he didn't have stars; he had a tough team and had a defensive game plan to suit.  It may not have been pretty but it worked.

Clarkson did the same and is still doing it.  He wanted a precise disposal team and gradually recruited that type and developed his high possession, pin point game plan accordingly.  This year he lost a lot of his speed and accurate players, he modified his game plan accorndingly.

Goodwin has a game plan that does not match the players he has right now.  It doesn't match because most have poor disposal skills and because many have not had enough pre-seasons to sustain a crash, bash and run style. 

Goodwin's game plan may be the one that wins a premiership but he doesn't have a team to carry it out right now.  He needs to recognise his plan is part of the problem.  He needs to modify it to match the team he has now.  Then develop it in tandem as the players develop.

To do otherwise risks the players loosing belief in the game plan.

 

[Skuit 10,031]

Is it too early in the season to dust off this old thread? Again, that mysterious barrier around the 40 point mark . . .

[Guest]

Yes. Couldn't agree more.

How dare the opposition just not roll over and let us have our way with them!

They ought to recognize our inherent greatness before the ball is bounced by willingly giving up a 10 goal lead. 

After all, these plebs need to know their role. No one ever made customized blazers for them now did they?

[Skuit 10,031]

5 minutes ago, Colin B. Flaubert said:

Yes. Couldn't agree more.

How dare the opposition just not roll over and let us have our way with them!

They ought to recognize our inherent greatness before the ball is bounced by willingly giving up a 10 goal lead. 

After all, these plebs need to know their role. No one ever made customized blazers for them now did they?

The point is is that we are having our way with teams at times. And if we extended these leads by a couple more goals I'm pretty certain most teams would roll over.

[praha 11,240]

I think it raises some questions about Goodwin's coaching ability, and he's still learning how to adjust mid-quarter and take more risks. I suspect guys like Hogan, with more run in the middle, will help in throwing the opposition off and stemming these runs. Time will tell.

Today was worse than last week imo because we were so far ahead, and never really left second gear even when he hit 40 points up. 

Given the conditions, I think it's only fair we put off the doomsday talk for another week. I think North is far more dangerous than Brisbane because they have fewer gaping holes across the ground than the Lions do. We can't afford to give them a quarter where they outscore us by 5, 6 or 7 goals. They won't buckle from that. And given the conditions we've just played in, I fear we won't be able to bounce back and have the legs to hold off and survive an onslaught.

Next week will be very interesting.

[Nasher 33,616]

As we're all well aware of, crushing teams does rely on the crushee giving way as much as the crusher getting the job done. I'm not convinced the Brisbane side last night lent itself to a crushing, but I'm also not convinced I'm not just telling myself that to avoid facing the truth. 

[Age 485]

If only we could play ourselves, we certainly have been known to roll over. Other teams don’t seem to do it as easy as we have done in the past!

[GCDee 3,199]

Yeah... we are [censored] until we win every game by 25 goals.... we are [censored] if we drop one game and we are the same old melbourne. 

Some people have some bloody short memories.