POST MATCH DISCUSSION - Round 10

[rjay 24,898]

4 hours ago, Ted Fidge said:

One rule that needs cracking down on is in the back. It seems it's now possible to drop a piano on someone's back in a tackle or at the bottom of a pack with no penalty.

Unless your name is Selwood...

[Bonkers 994]

2 minutes ago, Dappa Dan said:

Yeah the "at the moment" part isn't of that much concern to me. He's 25 games in. I reckon Watts didn't play a good one for his first 50, and he's not even as tall as Oscar. Frost was absolutely awful for his first 5 years, now look at him. I had Frost easily as our worst KP defender and just not a footballer. At OMac's height, age, and experience it would be unbelievable if he was good at all. I've seen him play well in the past, and there's not much left in the cupboard that's even close to tall enough. I reckon every side now has a 200cm forward that needs to be played on, so we have to play him even though he's inexperienced.

I just reckon the coaching group just see things differently than we do. They see his 1%ers, and they put up with disposal issues. I reckon he makes really good decisions, but can't execute them at his size, and with his turning circle. If you want to specifically talk about his strengths, then all you can identify at this stage is things like height, kicking technique, speed, spoiling technique. But again, Gawn when he started couldn't kick straight, kept getting hurt. All he did was be tall. I reckon in game 1 I had him pegged as a future starting ruckman. Based on effort and attitude. OMac has those as well.

To each their own. I reckon OMac is doing as good as you can expect from a low drafted 196cm player.

Yes each to their own. I'm just really struggling to see his qualities as a footballer at the moment. Kicking & marking are two of the most basic skills but he continues to butcher them over & over again. Can that be rectified? I would have thought if you don't have the basics by his age then it's going to be hard to get much better than he is. He also takes an eternity to dispose of the ball or make a decision.  Most of the time I'm pretty patient with younger key position players as they do take time. I can see the promise in Weideman as an example. 

Oscar obviously has some of the physical attributes & works to the team game plan when he doesn't have the ball. That's half of the game but it's when he has it that he is falling down. 

If Joel Smith wasn't injured we probably wouldn't be discussing it as Oscar more than likely would be developing where he should be in the 2's. 

[Gator 17,309]

25 minutes ago, Rodney (Balls) Grinter said:

You've been pretty quite in your critique of Pedo too PD, since he has returned to the side and is quietly getting the job done whilst having a real impact.

Personally, my only reservation with Pedo is that he is around that 30 y.o. mark and how long he can continue to produce the goods may be limited.  Still if we can get another one or two years out of him at his present output whilst younger KPFs and the team in general  develops, I think it's winners all round.

He's been very good.

I don't rate him as a stay at home key forward, but the ruck/forward role has helped him.  His career numbers are through the roof.  

Cameron Pedersen Career

Season	Num	MT	Team	K	Avg	H	Avg	D	Avg	M	Avg	HO	Avg	T	Avg	FF	FA	G	Avg	B	SC	Rat	Avg
2017	21	5	Melbourne	45	9	40	8	85	17	28	5.6	81	16.2	23	4.6	4	5	7	1.4	3	45	506	101.2
2016	21	9	Melbourne	61	6.8	66	7.3	127	14.1	38	4.2	33	3.7	16	1.8	9	12	6	0.7	7	43	542	60.2
2015	21	7	Melbourne	46	6.6	42	6	88	12.6	37	5.3	23	3.3	18	2.6	7	5	6	0.9	6	42	462	66
2014	21	19	Melbourne	136	7.2	118	6.2	254	13.4	82	4.3	92	4.8	58	3.1	16	15	14	0.7	9	93	1278	67.3
2013	21	10	Melbourne	66	6.6	69	6.9	135	13.5	57	5.7	15	1.5	23	2.3	4	12	5	0.5	2	32	614	61.4
2012	39	2	North Melbourne	15	7.5	7	3.5	22	11	10	5	4	2	4	2	2	3	2	1	1	13	115	57.5
2011	39	14	North Melbourne	132	9.4	59	4.2	191	13.6	74	5.3	29	2.1	34	2.4	15	10	18	1.3	5	113	999	71.4
Totals		66		501	7.6	401	6.1	902	13.7	326	4.9	277	4.2	176	2.7	57	62	58	0.9	33	381	4516	68.4

He's a poor ruck due to his height and an average key forward, but being able to be mobile around the ground has seen him be very effective and hit the scoreboard against the opposition's ruckman.

 

[Sir Why You Little 37,008]

39 minutes ago, Diamond_Jim said:

The money comes at an enormous cost in the form of lost exposure in the Melbourne market. It is short term survival stuff. A $20 levy on supporters would see this gone.

Hell.... Essendon supporters pay that for the add on cost of reserving a seat at one of the lesser matches

This has always been my concern. We as the Melbournre Football Club should be Working with the Victorian Government to increase the profile of both the State and the club. 

Geelong make over $600k every home game and get the state Govt to pay for their Grandstand. 

The MFC simply has to increase its profile

The NT Deal was survival mode in 2012-13, we should have left it behind by now. 

BUT are we the Melbourne Football Club  or The MCG Football Club?

 

[DemonOX 8,791]

We went into a game as favourites and actually WON. 

Wow that makes a nice change. 

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

48 minutes ago, Bonkers said:

Yes each to their own. I'm just really struggling to see his qualities as a footballer at the moment. Kicking & marking are two of the most basic skills but he continues to butcher them over & over again. Can that be rectified? I would have thought if you don't have the basics by his age then it's going to be hard to get much better than he is. He also takes an eternity to dispose of the ball or make a decision.  Most of the time I'm pretty patient with younger key position players as they do take time. I can see the promise in Weideman as an example. 

Oscar obviously has some of the physical attributes & works to the team game plan when he doesn't have the ball. That's half of the game but it's when he has it that he is falling down. 

If Joel Smith wasn't injured we probably wouldn't be discussing it as Oscar more than likely would be developing where he should be in the 2's. 

Marking? Absolutely. I reckon you ask most tall skinny guys (like me) if they improved as they aged as a mark, and I reckon you have to. Size, bulk, faith in your own body, knowing pain and contact isn't anything to be afraid of. Those things only get better as you age. Kicking? Not so much. I'm not seeing the massive problems with him as a kick. Again, grading on a curve, how many 196cm players can kick at all? The shape and technique are spot on. Better than his brother. If he has a target to kick to, he's fine? I guess I'm saying I'm not seeing the glaring problems with the basics that everyone else is. And yes he's loping around a bit. That happens when you're enormous. I get that there's players like Gawn who are incredible below their knees. And he doesn't have the fast twitch movement, dash or bulk of his big brother. But I'm not seeing massive horrible errors in contests. He gets beaten, but then so does Rance, Tarrant and others. He gets vilified on here, mostly because as a club we need a whipping boy. We used to have 20, now we have maybe 3.

Smith's a beauty, but that's a big call. Firstly, how do we know he'd go on for 10 weeks as good as his first 10 minutes + JLT? He's not immune to form. ALso he's 5cm shorter than OMac. Could he spoil and negate Ben Brown? Cox? Waite? Lynch? Wright? Lobb? Jenkins? Daniher? Hipwood? Every team seems to have one, and Smith will fight manfully but won't be able to spoil easily.

I tell you what I'd like to see. A realisation that we're still getting better. We're not playing a grand final this year. Or a prelim. Actually making the finals at all is a success. Players like OMac are the reason why. The club are right to be looking for a big bodied KP defender. We're years off OMac being productive. In the meantime, slot in a May, and teach OMac dual roles. Frost can go forward, and can play deep defense or rebounding. TMac has been rebounding his whole career, and goes into the ruck and forward. I suspect OMac needs another 5-10 kilos to be of any use in another role. I think you're right, he should be developing still somewhere in the 2s... But the in is basically anyone with height. Gawn and Hogan in, TMac back to defense, done.

[Mazer Rackham 14,971]

27 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Geelong make over $600k every home game and get the state Govt to pay for their Grandstand.

I would like to know the financials of this.

Before the upgrade, the Cats were making a tidy profit each game.

But if the govt pays for the upgrade, do the Cats get the extra gate revenue? Seems that the state should get the extra.

29 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

This has always been my concern. We as the Melbournre Football Club should be Working with the Victorian Government to increase the profile of both the State and the club.

Well, good luck with that. Dan is a Ess supporter and before him Ballyhoo was Geelong and before him Brumby was Collingwood. None of them have ever given a stuff about the MFC. But neither should they as premier give a stuff more or less about any club.

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

Watts' marking efforts have been extremely poor and soft in recent weeks, just does not commit to the contest.

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

Just now, Clint Bizkit said:

Watts' marking efforts have been extremely poor and soft in recent weeks, just does not commit to the contest.

He showed a little bit of improvement on this, Goody even highlighted how he's jumping at the ball. Then in the last 2-3 weeks he's been as bad as at any stage in his career.

Remember his juniors tape? Taking pack marks overhead? We've been had.

[dimmy 1,307]

There seem to be whipping boys even when we play well and win (Coaching group were reasonably happy with first half, but we failed to convert and ball movement in the mid/fwd lines) Iam am extending Goody's words in his press  briefing.

SO :

• How come it is OMac's fault for every mistake on the ground .There are criticisms of his marking (but not Petraccas). I must admit there were a couple of times in the first half that I thought the Knockers may be right, but overall he was playing on either Lynch or" 2 metre pete" so Frosty and OMac really did their jobs teamwise. He had 11 1% and some people are being praised for massively less than that. If you want a high flying KPD who carries the ball 50 metres ( like Jayden Hunt ) , and kicks it 60 ( like David Neitz) at least 10 times a game , be prepared to pay 2 Miliom $. So be thankful we are grooming blokes like Frosty & OMac.
• Our paucity of Ruckmen means that we have taken our main KPD out of his best area and have two "äpprentices" back there. Let us be fair to them. Jetta and Hibberd' have tightened the defence up really well.
• Our paucity of Ruckmen means that we have also taken our main Fwd line ball distributor out of his most effective area. Jack Watts is not a natural ruckman and has competed extremely well in  that role for some weeks. Over that time he has assumed a "more than fill in role". I agree that he may have got a rocket at 1/2 time, but I also feel a few teamates were informed he was on the ground, makes good decisions and is our traffic director into the fwd line .so why was he not being used
• Clarrie is in front of Jobe Watson at the same stage of his career and could be anything.
• Petracca needs to take a leaf out of Nathan Jones/Clarries book because he could be anything. I was a bit critical of his input yesterday until i saw the replay and started to notice how stats can lie because he put really good pressure on when the ball is in his area.Just need to get more of it.
• Nathan Jones. If he was Cyril dangerfield,, Bruce McAve... would have him as an All Australian. I just feel that the wider football group do not quite appreciate how he has shown enormous loyalty and committment to the Club. He has grown massively as a leader..
• Peddo is our whole hearted team man. When Gawny comes back a fwd line with Peddo deep and Jack Watts high Half Fwd and Hannan and Gartlett crumbing and running we could be anything.

The future is bright !!!!

[Mazer Rackham 14,971]

3 minutes ago, dimmy said:

Clarrie is in front of Jobe Watson at the same stage of his career and could be anything.
 

Holy cow. Imagine how good he'll be when he gets on the drugs!

[Sir Why You Little 37,008]

43 minutes ago, Ted Fidge said:

I would like to know the financials of this.

Before the upgrade, the Cats were making a tidy profit each game.

But if the govt pays for the upgrade, do the Cats get the extra gate revenue? Seems that the state should get the extra.

Well, good luck with that. Dan is a Ess supporter and before him Ballyhoo was Geelong and before him Brumby was Collingwood. None of them have ever given a stuff about the MFC. But neither should they as premier give a stuff more or less about any club.

As i said Is the Melbourne name part of the City or just the name of the Cricket Ground. 

If it is not the Cotythen we have some serious work ahead of us (& that is a good thing!)

[Sir Why You Little 37,008]

46 minutes ago, Ted Fidge said:

I would like to know the financials of this.

Before the upgrade, the Cats were making a tidy profit each game.

But if the govt pays for the upgrade, do the Cats get the extra gate revenue? Seems that the state should get the extra.

Well, good luck with that. Dan is a Ess supporter and before him Ballyhoo was Geelong and before him Brumby was Collingwood. None of them have ever given a stuff about the MFC. But neither should they as premier give a stuff more or less about any club.

Geelong and Brian Cook have managed to get what they need

[mattjm 151]

fwiw i reckon oscars kicking is actually ok for a kpd

[Mazer Rackham 14,971]

4 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Geelong and Brian Cook have managed to get what they need

Cook's a great operator, one of the best.

[Lucifers Hero 39,662]

14 minutes ago, dimmy said:

There seem to be whipping boys even when we play well and win (Coaching group were reasonably happy with first half, but we failed to convert and ball movement in the mid/fwd lines) Iam am extending Goody's words in his press  briefing.

Yes, some people just want to be negative or find any little thing to beat up on their favourite whipping boys.  This week it was Oscar, Watts, Tom and Lewis. 

I thought the first half was ok.  In the first qtr we were kicking against a very strong breeze - Petracca's kick for goal went 40m caught by the wind.  Whereas GCS were kicking them from 55.  We had more i/50 but were battling the wind.   

In the second qtr we had a lot of the ball and a lot of i50's but couldn't kick goals.  The wind had died down so no real advantage to us.

In the 3rd qtr we got our act together and no wind to speak of.

In the 4th we went on with it.

Overall, I thought we played well.  Not everyone had their best game, in fact few did.  But we found a way to win and as Goodwin said a few weeks ago - that is what good teams do.

If nothing else, games like this build resilience and belief.

[Diamond_Jim 12,554]

55 minutes ago, Ted Fidge said:

I would like to know the financials of this.

Before the upgrade, the Cats were making a tidy profit each game.

But if the govt pays for the upgrade, do the Cats get the extra gate revenue? Seems that the state should get the extra.

Well, good luck with that. Dan is a Ess supporter and before him Ballyhoo was Geelong and before him Brumby was Collingwood. None of them have ever given a stuff about the MFC. But neither should they as premier give a stuff more or less about any club.

http://www.geelongadvertiser.com.au/sport/afl/federal-government-asked-to-fund-majority-of-70-million-final-stage-of-simonds-stadium-redevelopment/news-story/36f8ac38059bf5c6b0aaa0d8c9646832

THE Federal Government will be called on to pick up the majority of the tab for the last stage in the Simonds Stad­ium redevelopment.

The stage five project, which would upgrade the city end’s Ford Stand and Gary Ablett Terrace, would modernise the remaining old areas of the stadium.

In a welcome change for the club, the Cats will take more of a back seat in funding neg­otiations, deferring to the controlling Kardinia Park Stadium­ Trust.

....................................

Mr Cook said the State Government had largely carried the cost of the four stages of the stadium rebuild, contributing $120 million of the $200 million spend.

“It is really the Federal Government’s turn — I think they acknowledge that.”

The stadium’s capacity will reach 40,000 through stage five of the project, which will cost about $70 million.

[Mazer Rackham 14,971]

3 minutes ago, mattjm said:

fwiw i reckon oscars kicking is actually ok for a kpd

A work of art, no doubt. Firing out that right leg behind him like a rapier, extending like a man possessed, his heel work, his leg height, his développé follow through ......

If only he could hit a target!!!

[Sir Why You Little 37,008]

5 minutes ago, Ted Fidge said:

Cook's a great operator, one of the best.

He certainly is. 

Played for the MFC too...

[Cards13 9,117]

3 hours ago, Diamond_Jim said:

just to clarify ... I edited to $100 per attendee but that is still real money that could be spent on a multitude of problems facing the territory

No tax breaks for the NT Govt.... they don't pay taxes

As I posted yesterday .... Mildura has a bigger population than Alice Springs

DJ they believe they get a return on the spend, otherwise they wouldn't do it. No idea if the investment is paying off but they are trying to bring more revenue to the Territory to hopefully fix all of those problems.

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

33 minutes ago, dimmy said:

There seem to be whipping boys even when we play well and win (Coaching group were reasonably happy with first half, but we failed to convert and ball movement in the mid/fwd lines) Iam am extending Goody's words in his press  briefing.

SO :

• How come it is OMac's fault for every mistake on the ground .There are criticisms of his marking (but not Petraccas). I must admit there were a couple of times in the first half that I thought the Knockers may be right, but overall he was playing on either Lynch or" 2 metre pete" so Frosty and OMac really did their jobs teamwise. He had 11 1% and some people are being praised for massively less than that. If you want a high flying KPD who carries the ball 50 metres ( like Jayden Hunt ) , and kicks it 60 ( like David Neitz) at least 10 times a game , be prepared to pay 2 Miliom $. So be thankful we are grooming blokes like Frosty & OMac.
• Our paucity of Ruckmen means that we have taken our main KPD out of his best area and have two "äpprentices" back there. Let us be fair to them. Jetta and Hibberd' have tightened the defence up really well.
• Our paucity of Ruckmen means that we have also taken our main Fwd line ball distributor out of his most effective area. Jack Watts is not a natural ruckman and has competed extremely well in  that role for some weeks. Over that time he has assumed a "more than fill in role". I agree that he may have got a rocket at 1/2 time, but I also feel a few teamates were informed he was on the ground, makes good decisions and is our traffic director into the fwd line .so why was he not being used
• Clarrie is in front of Jobe Watson at the same stage of his career and could be anything.
• Petracca needs to take a leaf out of Nathan Jones/Clarries book because he could be anything. I was a bit critical of his input yesterday until i saw the replay and started to notice how stats can lie because he put really good pressure on when the ball is in his area.Just need to get more of it.
• Nathan Jones. If he was Cyril dangerfield,, Bruce McAve... would have him as an All Australian. I just feel that the wider football group do not quite appreciate how he has shown enormous loyalty and committment to the Club. He has grown massively as a leader..
• Peddo is our whole hearted team man. When Gawny comes back a fwd line with Peddo deep and Jack Watts high Half Fwd and Hannan and Gartlett crumbing and running we could be anything.

The future is bright !!!!

I like these posts.

Tracca, I think, isn't going to be a 22 game midfielder like Clarry and Jones are. He's a bit more of a Stevey J, Chapman type. Will go through there and do amazing things like in the Crows game. But by gee he's heavy, and I worry about his speed and engine. His ceiling on those won't be as high as a Scully type.  

Pedo. The only issue with him is how Goody overlooked him early in the year. He's best 22 now even with a fully fit list.

[buck_nekkid 5,848]

Before this week I have not slagged off Omac.  However, under little or no pressure he turned it over in god-awful ways.  It is great that he had 11 '1 percenters', but when he has the  Ball in hand he is a significant liability.  If he tidied this up - even to just be average (not even 'above average', let alone elite) - then I could understand him being a key part of the backline.  I believe he will get there, but we cannot have someone give away simple goals and throw our forward movement patterns into disarray and give the opposition simple lanes to goal due to continuous unforced errors.

So, he gets set this as his development task, and when we have the appropriate coverage for him, he goes back to Casey and develops.  Until then, he stays in the firsts and we hold our hearts in our mouths when he has the ball in hand.

[defuture15 898]

Oscar is still undeveloped but I think that he has more awareness and skill than his brother. He will take time. 

Edited May 28, 2017 by defuture15
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[Brownie 5,972]

23 hours ago, dees189227 said:

Currently at a restaurant where the boys must be staying.  They are in the pool for a quick recovery.  Watts is limping but hopefully the week off will help. Players a bit embarrased as they walked through the restaurant with melbourne fans clapping them. Told jonsey great 2nd half by him.

I thought Watts was lazy last week but I reckon he's carrying injury / fatigue.

I think we forget sometimes how many players are carrying injuries and also how competitve we're staying with so many kpds missing.

hope the break lets them mend then bring on the pies and our talls coming back in.

[dieter 3,325]

I think the Watts baggers/haters are way off the mark. This year he's been expected to be a ruckman and a forward and a swing man. No wonder he looks and plays sore some of the time. What I like about him is that he puts in and contests and when he does get the footy he does something with it. Glory be if Lewis, the McDonalds, Jones, Melksham, Tyson, the Buggar and Harmes could boast this level of efficiency.