POST MATCH DISCUSSION - Round 7

[waynewussell 5,438]

Those critical of Hannan better take a closer look at the third quarter. So much knee-jerking going on. Stupid comments about Watts in the ruck... he is actually winning half of the time he is in there. People, take a closer look!

[Moonshadow 17,675]

Saw Maxy in the trident area signing autographs pretty game. 

PLEASE HEAL QUICKLY MAX!!!

May the 12-16 become 8-9.

[Demon Jack 6,873]

I've had the usual few hours of post match depression and can now speak about the game without receiving copious headaches and chest pains.

Another immensely frustrating loss....When on earth are we going to start winning the games that we go into as favourites? It seems that these are the games that we never seem to have the right 'attitude' for. Why the hell not? We all know that when we're switched on we can just about beat anyone in the league. Granted, we still have a young team, so I guess this might be expected. Maybe losses like this are the only way they'll learn. What annoys me the most is that I actually think we'll really have a good crack against the Crows next week. 

Moving on individual players, Viney easily played his best game of the year. He was absolutely sensational in the third quarter when we kicked a few goals in a row and were looking likely. It certainly looks like he has his dash and tenacity back. On the other end of the scale, I am failing to see what JKH is bringing to the team. 0 tackles and 0 goals from someone who played the majority of the game as a small forward is just not good enough. It's a real shame considering I was backing JKH to have a good year. In reflection, I'm hoping Kent is brought in next week as his grunt, pace and goal nouse was sorely missed.

Frost is an absolute jet. Yes, Roughead kicked four goals (2-3 from questionable calls from the umpire) but his kamikaze like style of playing is an absolute joy to watch. Moving to our other speedster, kudos to Goodwin for trying something different and playing Hunt as a forward during the second half. For a guy well known for his pace, he definitely has a good pair of hands on him. Hunt tried his guts out today, well done to him. In regards to our other forwards, all things considered I thought Hogan was good today, especially in the second half. I think he still could have a 50 goal season if he improves from here. Jeffy also continued his great form. 18 goals from seven games now. 

While the loss is immensely frustrating, at least there's reason for optimism. 

We'll get there.

Go Dees!

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

 

8 minutes ago, picket fence said:

Yep But Neeld "Didn't see that Comin!"

[Brownie 5,969]

4 minutes ago, waynewussell said:

Those critical of Hannan better take a closer look at the third quarter. So much knee-jerking going on. Stupid comments about Watts in the ruck... he is actually winning half of the time he is in there. People, take a closer look!

agree. he showed some desperation and contested well.

[Nascent 9,144]

Out: Bugg and JKH

In: Melksham and ANB

Not super inspiring changes but ANB is much better at playing the forward role JKH is attempting to do. Melksham best on for Casey and I prefer him over bugg anyway.

Not sure Kent has done enough level and although I wouldn't mind stretch in I'm not too sure who makes way for him. Three unforced changes seems too many regardless for team stability.

Edited May 7, 2017 by Nascent

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

3 minutes ago, Demon Jack said:

I've had the usual few hours of post match depression and can now speak about the game without receiving copious headaches and chest pains.

Another immensely frustrating loss....When on earth are we going to start winning the games that we go into as favourites? It seems that these are the games that we never seem to have the right 'attitude' for. Why the hell not? We all know that when we're switched on we can just about beat anyone in the league. Granted, we still have a young team, so I guess this might be expected. Maybe losses like this are the only way they'll learn. What annoys me the most is that I actually think we'll really have a good crack against the Crows next week. 

Moving on individual players, Viney easily played his best game of the year. He was absolutely sensational in the third quarter when we kicked a few goals in a row and were looking likely. It certainly looks like he has his dash and tenacity back. On the other end of the scale, I am failing to see what JKH is bringing to the team. 0 tackles and 0 goals from someone who played the majority of the game as a small forward is just not good enough. It's a real shame considering I was backing JKH to have a good year. In reflection, I'm hoping Kent is brought in next week as his grunt, pace and goal nouse was sorely missed.

Frost is an absolute jet. Yes, Roughead kicked four goals (2-3 from questionable calls from the umpire) but his kamikaze like style of playing is an absolute joy to watch. Moving to our other speedster, kudos to Goodwin for trying something different and playing Hunt as a forward during the second half. For a guy well known for his pace, he definitely has a good pair of hands on him. Hunt tried his guts out today, well done to him. In regards to our other forwards, all things considered I thought Hogan was good today, especially in the second half. I think he still could have a 50 goal season if he improves from here. Jeffy also continued his great form. 18 goals from seven games now. 

While the loss is immensely frustrating, at least there's reason for optimism. 

We'll get there.

Go Dees!

DJ you must be way younger than me 

[Adam The God 30,142]

Putting it out there... that was Viney's best game for the MFC. And undoubtedly his best game as a leader. He was superb. Take a bow, Jack. Make sure you harness the hurt and channel it into smashing Adelaide next week.

4 hours ago, Deeoldfart said:

Fantastic second half coaching Goody.  Positional moves at the half, plus a 100% lift in intensity on the field, almost snatched an unlikely victory.  Like everyone reading this, I'm absolutely gutted.  It seems that four quarters too much to ask.

Reckon we've got a beauty on our hands in Goody. Has a lot of work to do with them, but love his proactivity and he isn't afraid to switch it up a bit. eg. Starting Hogan in the centre square in the 1st and Hunt to half forward in the 3rd. Our midfield is far too all or nothing though. The press doesn't work against a smart, seasoned team like the Hawks. Their mids just sidestepped, handballed to a free mid and they were away. We need to switch something up there at the crucial moments. Either go man on man or sit someone at half back to come in off the square and provide an outnumber, otherwise 4 on 4 in the middle, we are made to look stupid at times.

4 hours ago, Pates said:

I missed seeing the first half, that's obviously where we lost it. We won't make finals this year, we're too inconsistent and Gawn is so important to our team. There were so many centre bounces that the Hawks were able to easily break free that just wouldn't happen if we had a recognised ruckman.

We're going to take a step backwards this year I feel, the core of the side is still young and susceptible to varying levels of intensity. The competition is also very tight so I feel we'll get some good wins along to way but we're going to get some bad (and stupid) losses as well. 

Strangely I don't think I'm angry, more numb. I've seen us going through so many rebuilds and crap times, I really thought this year was going to continue the upward trend. Now I just can't get my hopes up for this year, I'm just going to do what I do every year: ride it out, enjoy the good moments and push myself through the bad ones. 

Hawks had leaders who stood up when needed. Gibson, Hodge, Burgoyne, and Roughead were able to steady the ship when it counted. Viney and Jones were good in the second half, as was Lewis. I can't imagine what a train wreck it must've been in the first half, I'll never know as I won't put myself through seeing it. 

Gutted, numb, sick of this feeling I've had for about 90% of my Melbourne supporting life. 

This is a coaching problem IMO. Gawn helps, yeah, of course an AA ruckman helps, but see above - we press too hard in the centre square and teams get us out the back/over the top. We need to have a plan B and play smarter at the stoppages at times.

4 hours ago, olisik said:

Honestly we play JKH over

Trengove, Kennedy, Stretch, Kent

Who anywhere would think he adds more value then these players?

Didn't hear how Kent went this week at the lower level, but I'd have Harmes and ANB ahead of JKH. I'm happy to call it a day with JKH. 

I was prepared to back him in for 3+ weeks given the FD clearly wanted to give him a shot. He failed abysmally and once again vindicated my thoughts on him since 2014; he has no weapons to make it at this level. Definitely gets the axe next week and I hope we don't see him again, otherwise we're in trouble.

4 hours ago, --coach-- said:

Is it just that we are a shortish side, or that we are not used to taking marks due to the amount of handball we do, we are woeful at taking marks above our head!

Hunt isn't. He's a terrific mark above his head. Thought it was a great move pushing him forward. Got us going in the third and took some really important contested marks. Kid is going to be A grade. Needs to improve his kicking though.

4 hours ago, Petraccattack said:

All four losses should have been wins.  Couldnt even steal one or two of them though. Steal just one we are in the 8.  But no, we blew all 4 games.

. Any other team in our position would be in the top 4, but the MFC just love to throw away games. A team of losers

The tide is going to turn HH and it's going to be sweet. Just stay the course.

[Jaded No More 68,867]

How, after all these years, the letdowns, the heartaches, the coaching changes, and list changes... how can this group of players still come out with a terrible attitude and not give enough, is absolutely beyond me.

We have everything to play for, yet we didn't turn up for the majority of the game. 

I've been OK with some of our losses, especially when we lost players during the game. Today Hawks were a man down, and we still lost. I felt like I was back in 2013 watching players not giving a damn, not chasing, not sticking tackles, not manning up... basic [censored] that you think professional footballers with a desire to win would be proficient at doing.

Sometimes it feels like this ride through hell will never end, and sometimes you see glimpses and you think "one day we'll be great", but that one day never comes. That light at the end of the tunnel feels like an oncoming train!

[DeeZee 7,364]

I just don't think they want it badly enough.

We win one last week against  the bombers  and they are happy with themselves and start believing their own publicity , then don't turn up desperate enough the following week.

[Moonshadow 17,675]

7 minutes ago, DeeZee said:

I just don't think they want it badly enough.

We win one last week against  the bombers  and they are happy with themselves and start believing their own publicity , then don't turn up desperate enough the following week.

Leadership.

[Lord Travis 10,701]

7 minutes ago, DeeZee said:

I just don't think they want it badly enough.

We win one last week against  the bombers  and they are happy with themselves and start believing their own publicity , then don't turn up desperate enough the following week.

I agree with this. There was a moment in the 4th quarter, 10 mins to go still. 4 Hawks players (Hodge, Gibson and some other campaigners) started laying into Watts in our forward line, ball was 100 meters away. It was like watching his debut all over again where he got swarmed by Colllongwood player a and his teammates didn't have his back. Hannah and Hogan were both standing there and just ignored their mate getting mauled until Hunt ran over and actively raised his arms and yelled at them. Then they put in a token effort to stop the fight.

It was symbolic. The Hawks players know each other and we're on the same page. They had fight in them. The Dees players haven't bonded properly yet and wanted to avoid conflict. They had no fight in them. As soon as I saw that mini fight I knew 100% we would not get back up and win. 

These guys still don't have the fire in them yet and don't know each other well enough. It's going to take time, and that sucks. Let's just hope they get there in the end or lots of Melbourne supporters will die without seeing a premiership.

[Redleg 40,858]

We needed to impose ourselves on this game from the start, not let them jump us and get some confidence.

Soft easy goals to the other side is exactly what can't happen.

If it looks like you can't score early, you ensure the other side can't, by pressure, more pressure and then even more pressure.

Didn't happen.

We played dumb, soft footy early, with no pressure, poor skill, stupid handball, poor defence and a lack of basic football fundamentals.

This lack of pressure at the man and attack on the ball, allowed them to score easily and then their football skills came to the fore with the confidence that easy goals bring.

Is there a rule at the MFC that you handball at all costs, in every situation when you have the ball?

Is there another rule that when contesting a mark, all MFC players in the vicinity are to jump and leave unattended opposition, for the inevitable crumbs, or the polar opposite, no one contests and allows the opposition to mark easily without pressure?

Is there another rule that you don't go straight to goal when you have the ball, to have your forwards one out, with a chance to score, but rather chip backwards or across the goal every time, until you lose possession? 

We play these rules beautifully.

[Scoop Junior 3,435]

The most annoying thing is how predictable it all is.

Come out half-hearted against an out-of-form side, allow them early goals to get their confidence and belief going and find ourselves well behind early in the game. Then turn it on when hope seems gone, come roaring back into the match but fail to finish the job and lose a nailbiter.

I reckon I've seen this movie 20 times. I hated it the first time and I hated it today. We keep coming back for more but the script doesn't change.

Over and over and over again we play teams near the bottom who are down on confidence and we fail to come out switched on from the outset. I would love to be surprised for once and to see us land some big blows early against these sides but it doesn't happen. We lost to drug-banned Essendon last year but learned nothing and we continue to fail to show up when expected to win.

There are some real attitude problems that we just cannot, at the moment, get over. We've improved our list, our talent, our skill (not there yet but better), our hardness, etc. But we really are miles off it mentally. I said the same thing after the Freo game when we failed to get men back in the last few minutes. Great teams find a way to win, we simply find ways to lose. We are just so good at it. If the aim in football was to extract defeat from winnable positions we'd be the reigning triple Premiers.

And it's no surprise our best quarter was the third. The pressure was off as there was no expectation to win being 6 goals down. Then once again as soon as we drew level in the last and the expectation was we would run over them, we fail to go on with it.

I'm sick of the youth excuse. We had enough senior players out there today to lead the way. They've had these lessons before and they've learned nothing.

I'm quite happy with our physical development so far this year but mentally we are really falling well short of the mark. We need to find some answers.

[Adam The God 30,142]

4 hours ago, Nasher said:

The same Adelaide that was down 64 points to 0 at quarter time? Righto.

This competition is ridiculously even, more even than I've ever seen it. The only club I fear at the moment is the Melbourne Football Club.

I reckon we'll give next week a real shake. Have thought so for a couple of weeks now. Just a pity Adelaide got thumped by so much. Hopefully it plays with their confidence.

4 hours ago, dazzledavey36 said:

The last minute we had the opportunity to bomb straight into our forward 50. Vince wins the ball and handballs to Hibberd in the middle only for him to handball to a stationary target. 

Exactly why we have been a dumb football side for the past 10 years.

I was pulling my hair out. These are senior players. Why didn't Hibberd kick the damn thing in quickly and put the Hawthorn defence under pressure? Instead, he gets tackles trying to do too much and we have to reset and lose precious seconds.

[Jaded No More 68,867]

2 minutes ago, Scoop Junior said:

The most annoying thing is how predictable it all is.

Come out half-hearted against an out-of-form side, allow them early goals to get their confidence and belief going and find ourselves well behind early in the game. Then turn it on when hope seems gone, come roaring back into the match but fail to finish the job and lose a nailbiter.

I reckon I've seen this movie 20 times. I hated it the first time and I hated it today. We keep coming back for more but the script doesn't change.

Over and over and over again we play teams near the bottom who are down on confidence and we fail to come out switched on from the outset. I would love to be surprised for once and to see us land some big blows early against these sides but it doesn't happen. We lost to drug-banned Essendon last year but learned nothing and we continue to fail to show up when expected to win.

There are some real attitude problems that we just cannot, at the moment, get over. We've improved our list, our talent, our skill (not there yet but better), our hardness, etc. But we really are miles off it mentally. I said the same thing after the Freo game when we failed to get men back in the last few minutes. Great teams find a way to win, we simply find ways to lose. We are just so good at it. If the aim in football was to extract defeat from winnable positions we'd be the reigning triple Premiers.

And it's no surprise our best quarter was the third. The pressure was off as there was no expectation to win being 6 goals down. Then once again as soon as we drew level in the last and the expectation was we would run over them, we fail to go on with it.

I'm sick of the youth excuse. We had enough senior players out there today to lead the way. They've had these lessons before and they've learned nothing.

I'm quite happy with our physical development so far this year but mentally we are really falling well short of the mark. We need to find some answers.

Spot on, and this is where Goodwin hasn't won me over yet. 

Mentally we are a weak side. We lack a killer instinct and we lack the drive to find a way to win. To be in a worst position this time of year, than last, is inexcusable, especially given how easy our draw has been!

We can't keep making excuses. The Dogs had so many injuries, finished 7th, and won the flag. I don't believe in luck, you make your own. We have had injuries, yes, and I understand why we lost to Richmond and why we ran out of steam. But we need to stop saying it's OK to lose these games because Hawthorn are experienced, because we are young. Hawthorn are a shadow of their former self. They are terrible. We lost not because they were good, just like we lost the Freo and the Geelong games. We lost because we were not strong enough mentally to get a win.

So sick and tired of this movie, as you said, and incredibly sick of not having anyone in this team to stand up and deliver when it matters. When the going gets tough, the players just don't know how to get going! We play soft, dumb, 'not my problem' football. Everyone is looking for someone else to do something. 

[waynewussell 5,438]

Thought our leaders were really good today. Best combined game, Viney/Jones for the season. Bernie was good, Lewis was a contributor, Hibberd did well. Eight other teams lost this round... how did their leaders go? Reading here you would think our leaders deserve to be taken out the back of gate 2 and shot! The stupidity of trashing Nathan Jones... the same Nathan Jones that is respected throughout the AFL community for his leadership and guts in his decade long battle to lift the team out of the doldrums... its pathetic!

[Jaded No More 68,867]

Just now, waynewussell said:

Thought our leaders were really good today. Best combined game, Viney/Jones for the season. Bernie was good, Lewis was a contributor, Hibberd did well. Eight other teams lost this round... how did their leaders go? Reading here you would think our leaders deserve to be taken out the back of gate 2 and shot! The stupidity of trashing Nathan Jones... the same Nathan Jones that is respected throughout the AFL community for his leadership and guts in his decade long battle to lift the team out of the doldrums... its pathetic!

I agree to an extent, especially regarding Viney who was superb,  and Jones.

But when the game was there to be won, all of those players made inexcusable, horrendous, game-costing decisions, and lost us the game. Simple.

Everyone makes mistakes, sure, but this is a systemic problem that has been happening at Melbourne over and over. And lets not just include the above players, McDonald, Watts, Jetta and Tyson should be leaders too. All of them (Tyson perhaps excused) were poor today.

[Phadraig 760]

What is everyone's thoughts on Oscars game? I thought he played a good game but my gosh he goes for a spoil and completely misses the ball wayyy too often.

[Phadraig 760]

Also for once I agreed with BT with something, why were the runners on the ground for so long? They were standing on the field for minutes at a time doing nothing.

[FireInTheBennelly 4,072]

For anyone able to watch a replay, at one point (can't remember which quarter) the Hawks had the ball on the camera side of the ground, right in front of the interchange gates. They made an interchange where the incoming player entered the field of play outside of the gates, stealing several metres on his opposite number. He then received the ball in the clear and this led to a Hawks goal.

My question, should this have been an instant free kick and 50 metre penalty? Or is this normal? My understanding is all players had to exit/enter through the gates, and if not there would be a free kick plus 50.

[Adam The God 30,142]

5 hours ago, Pates said:

JKH can't survive this week, while I don't think he's been as bad as what some of D-land feels he is ineffectual. Doesn't influence the contest, not enough forward pressure, and doesn't have that mercurial edge he first started with. Must be dropped for Kent. 

Bugg was another who appeared to do very little, the one passage of play I can remember from him was him trying to pass it instead of going for goal. Sometimes you need to be a little selfish in the forward line if the goals are on offer. 

Bugg turned it over all day. He's a horrible player and it was crystal clear in his first season with us. He's not AFL standard if we're serious. Should have been Stretch for Bugg.

5 hours ago, sisso said:

Have we ever won the Pink Lady match?

Nope. My friend who works at the BCNA was saying today she was really hoping we'd win this one, because it's been three years and we've never won the Pink Lady match.

5 hours ago, olisik said:

Meanwhile in the VFL

Disposals - Melksham 30, Kennedy 26, Stretch 25, Trengove 22, Fritsch 22, White 21.

Kent still not putting in the hard yards? He may well become tradebait unless he pulls his finger out soon.

Stretch and Harmes/ANB in at the expense of Bugg and JKH next week.

5 hours ago, titan_uranus said:

Is that a coaching issue?

Instead of continually saying we have a coaching issue (whether it was Bailey, Neeld, Roos or Goodwin), I'd have thought it's far more likely it's a player issue. We just aren't capable of bringing AFL-level intensity for four quarters.

Despite being 3-4, our percentage remains over 100%, so I don't think we have a defensive problem. 

There is a solid argument we should be 7-0. We haven't been "out" of any of our losses. 

I don't think anyone can say we've got something fundamentally wrong with our defensive system or our gameplan or something like that. When we're "on", we're really, really good. We just cannot stay "on" for four quarters and we're losing games because of it.

Spot on. Great post, mate.

[Ditcha 493]

All

3 years ago we would have lost this game by 100 points. We have come a long way but still have some work to do on developing the team.  I believe that Hawthorn having a big ruckman to aim at got them out of trouble .  I hope that Goody and the coaches use the review well so that we can learn from this defeat. Lets go over to Adelaide and have a good crack against the odds.

[McQueen 17,864]

I didn't read the game day thread so I'm wondering if anyone mentioned why did Lewis not ground the ball before lining up for goal, thereby adding time on?

[Satyriconhome 10,737]

3 hours ago, Sir Why You Little said:

When has Jones ever picked up this old Club and pushed it over the line?

good Captains do it regularly

Pendlebury had a good try this weekend, so did Heppell, Cotchin