POST MATCH DISCUSSION - Round 5

[bringbackthebiff 649]

Interesting reading. 2 things always intrigue me about discussion with our midfield stoppages: 1 positioning and 2 handballing it around to create the loose man. 1: I like it when we position the midfield to win the ball, not to stop the opposition. When we are in top it looks awesome and no one criticises, when we get beaten the talk is we should man up etc. 2: Handballing around at a stoppage to create a loose man makes sense and the good teams do it well - I remember Geelong in their prime were brilliant at it. Simply the idea is to free up someone so they can the hit a target - not just throw it on the boot. It amazes me when it doesn't work out fans go nuts, but simply hacking it out is what crap teams do and good teams punish them on the turnover. Worse case is you get tackled and give up a free, however at least this lets the backs to set up. In my opinion both of these areas are a sign of a positive attitude our young midfielders have. They are backing themselves to win - exactly how I want them to think and play. 

[Ted Lasso 18,914]

I think we need to have a look at the way we set up when kicking into the forward 50, we have been poor in this area all year aside from a part of the saints game where when we did lower our eyes we tore them to shreds. 

Im not sure if we are just bombing long to hogan to often or if we are trying so hard to be aggressive that we are lacking a little composure but if we were 10% better in this area I suspect we'd be 4-1 rather than 2-3 

[dazzledavey36 53,459]

34 minutes ago, Wizza said:

Forgot to mention, that shepherd from Jayden Hunt in the last quarter was amazing and speaks volumes of the type of player he his. Just unfortunate Garlett fluffed the kick at such a crucial point in the game.

Garlett didn't fluff the kick, he was spent and had to try and bomb it to Hogan who was running backwards instead of leading at the ball carrier like true forwards are suppose to.

Not Garlett fault at all.

[Chris 2,892]

12 minutes ago, Abe said:

I think we need to have a look at the way we set up when kicking into the forward 50, we have been poor in this area all year aside from a part of the saints game where when we did lower our eyes we tore them to shreds. 

Im not sure if we are just bombing long to hogan to often or if we are trying so hard to be aggressive that we are lacking a little composure but if we were 10% better in this area I suspect we'd be 4-1 rather than 2-3 

I think they need to slow down a touch. Against the saints it was clear that once we had the ball we slowed down and systematically shredded them. I remeber Roos saying he felt like he was watching us play at half pace. The thing was though that the players slowed slightly in body and mind but in doingeneral so the ball didn't slow much and away we went. If only you could bottle that!

[Dr. Gonzo 23,932]

3 hours ago, Wiseblood said:

Re: Hogan - this was a tough one for us.  You throw Hogan up the ground to that kick out contest and we win it, who do we kick to?  Spencer going down robbed us a little of those structures that would have helped us.  The one thing we did right with those kick outs is that we went the opposite side to Nankervis which allowed us some semblance of chance by bringing the ball to ground.

Edit - just to add to this, Smith going down also robbed us of a target as well.  He might not be the tallest out there but he can certainly play tall.

I agree however at least we would've won that contest (or had a better chance to anyway) and then rely on our runners to win the ball forward if centre.

[dazzledavey36 53,459]

Just finished watching the replay. With 3:50 left on the clock we were 6 points down. 

Viney Jones Jetta Petracca Spencer Smith were all injured throughout the game and all played under duress yet Richmond won the game with just under 3 minutes to go. Richmond had 22 fit players playing last night. Realistically we only had 17 fit men playing. Now i see why they are the great pretenders. Wait till we have Gawn, Lewis, Kent, Brayshaw, Vandenberg all fit and firing!

A warrior effort from all our boys who just kept at it right at the end.

Its still hurts but im super proud.

 

[Dingo 1,022]

I have watched the replay.It was an intense,scrappy game by both teams.We led for three and a half quarters and scores were equal at the 6 minute mark.This was against the top team.We were 2 players short.Not one player gave up or stopped trying till the final siren.The Dees were fantastic. Bring on the Bombers!

[TickleMeTyson 137]

So proud of the fight we showed particularly in the 3rd term, clearly gassed at the end being two rotations down for a whole half. Of course, the mark of a great side is to hold on in those situations, we aren't a great side yet, but we will be. Look at our list profile, Rory Sloane mentioned the main reason for Adelaide's early season dominance was that most of the list has been together for 5-6 years now, and is (relatively) injury free. The way we have drafted/developed our talent so far can only fill you with optimism, a rare feeling in the past decade.

Without a ruckman and missing a tall up forward, getting the ball out of our defensive fifty was always going to be a monumental task. Nankervis gave Richmond first use, and Rance was freed up to intercept everything. Hibberd is a gun, Lewis coming back will add some composure to the backline. It has been the most enjoyable/competitive season in ten years, we have had tough luck with injuries, it happens, but the loss last night was nowhere near as frustrating as the last two (inaccuracy against the Cats, having a halftime snooze against the Dockers). After the game last night, I was proud to wear the scarf, adversity through injury creates opportunity, I have no doubt we will be better than Richmond in the long run.

[low flying Robbo 979]

Was it Frost or TMac who flipped Riewoldt at the end? Would love to see footage of that

[Ted Lasso 18,914]

30 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Just finished watching the replay. With 3:50 left on the clock we were 6 points down. 

Viney Jones Jetta Petracca Spencer Smith were all injured throughout the game and all played under duress yet Richmond won the game with just under 3 minutes to go. Richmond had 22 fit players playing last night. Realistically we only had 17 fit men playing. Now i see why they are the great pretenders. Wait till we have Gawn, Lewis, Kent, Brayshaw, Vandenberg all fit and firing!

A warrior effort from all our boys who just kept at it right at the end.

Its still hurts but im super proud.

 

I am almost more happy to see that kind of effort in a loss than I would have been in a ten goal win, the mfc hasn't cared that much about a performance in a long time, that was genuine fight 

[KysaiahMessiah 725]

18 minutes ago, low flying Robbo said:

Was it Frost or TMac who flipped Riewoldt at the end? Would love to see footage of that

Frosty, just saw it on fox, was a ripper and totally fair.  Hodge loved it, then again he would ?

[Dr. Gonzo 23,932]

3 hours ago, Webber said:

Perfectly put Demon77. There is a large group on here however who can't see it, don't want to see it, and won't get past their own frustrated petulance to ever have your perspective. Footy's a tough game, and sometimes it's more satisfying to acknowledge the qualities in honourable defeats than easy wins. Last night was one of those times. 

Just as I felt better about the future of the team after the Geelong loss than I did after the Carlton win, I felt better after last night than I did against Freo last week.

Of course in footy the only thing that matters is results, however there also needs to be a holistic perspective about how the team plays and where it's going. I'm confident in this team moving forward, when guys like Oliver, Petracca, Hunt, Salem and Hogan have more games, more pre-seasons and more experience under their belts.

By the way Hibberd was outstanding and Hunt is getting close to my favourite player. Just needs a little more composure but his line breaking is something we've cried out for for a decade. 

[bandicoot 1,395]

7 hours ago, AmDamDemon said:

Yea I actually thought he went alright. Was in good spots, bit of flash, and nice pressure. This is all learning and are the tough yards needed for what will become sustained success. I def believe we are on the right track, signs are good and in 2018-19 wI'll be challenging for sure. To the Debby-downers out there, it must be tough viewing the world so one-dimensionally. I hope you're all ok. 

He seems too small and light for AFL. Also, isn't quick or skilled enough to make up for his small stature. Will find it hard to find a position 

[What 18,810]

42 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Just finished watching the replay. With 3:50 left on the clock we were 6 points down. 

Viney Jones Jetta Petracca Spencer Smith were all injured throughout the game and all played under duress yet Richmond won the game with just under 3 minutes to go. Richmond had 22 fit players playing last night. Realistically we only had 17 fit men playing. Now i see why they are the great pretenders. Wait till we have Gawn, Lewis, Kent, Brayshaw, Vandenberg all fit and firing!

A warrior effort from all our boys who just kept at it right at the end.

Its still hurts but im super proud.

 

Exactly.  Anyone who is looking solely at the win loss record and saying we have not improved is kidding themselves.

In three of the five games we have lost a player (or two) early in the game, while our opponents carried on with all 22 men available.

Our luck has been horrible, and we deserve a fair run at it.

[Dr. Gonzo 23,932]

3 hours ago, Chris said:

Really? Where I was it was 50/50 right around the northern top deck. To say there was only 20k dees is laughable. 

Yeah I think it was closer to 30k/55k but the southern stand was predominantly Richmond.

[Lucifers Hero 39,074]

Has anyone noticed if Viney and Jones talk to each other during games.  Especially in time on, when the op get some momentum going or when we repeatedly lose our structures.  I haven't noticed them do so and wonder if they are running their own race.  

Even if Jones and Viney were physically injured last night they could still have talked to each other, marshalled the troops, enforced structures etc.  Those things aren't that hard to initiate are they?  Those things may not always work but to take no action...

...Baffling

[Chris 2,892]

1 minute ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Yeah I think it was closer to 30k/55k but the southern stand was predominantly Richmond.

I would go to 35 to 45 but it is really hard to tell that difference and is influenced heavily by where you were. Certainly wasn't 15 to 70 though!

[Dr. Gonzo 23,932]

3 hours ago, A F said:

Rance had 4 touches to half time. After half time he was caught holding the ball twice, coughed it up and was outmarked twice by a one-legged Petracca. He was hopeless until Spencer went off and he played spare man.

We made Rance look good. After Smith went down he basically was playing a floating sweeper role and we kept kicking it directly down his throat. Rance is one of the most annoying players at the moment, acts like such a goody two shoes prissy but takes cheap shots and ducks/dives looking for frees. That elbow to Watts' head last year wasn't out of character, look at the way he uses his knee to hurt the opposition when crashing a pack. Pretty sure he was the one who injured Smith doing that too.

[ViaLoop 11]

4 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

We made Rance look good. After Smith went down he basically was playing a floating sweeper role and we kept kicking it directly down his throat. Rance is one of the most annoying players at the moment, acts like such a goody two shoes prissy but takes cheap shots and ducks/dives looking for frees. That elbow to Watts' head last year wasn't out of character, look at the way he uses his knee to hurt the opposition when crashing a pack. Pretty sure he was the one who injured Smith doing that too.

He was the one that injured Smith. No Watts down there account of no ruck and Rance was always going to do it easy.

[picket fence 16,819]

3 hours ago, DeeZee said:

I think our best option is to bring OMac back in defense or use Kielty and make Frost the main ruck. Peterson would take up the second tall position freeing up Watts .

This gives us multiple ruck options as Pedo, Frost, Watts and Kielty can all spend time there if required.

Not bad, not bad at all. What I am really worried about is losing Watts to injury in a rucking contest. a role he shouldn't even be playing even as a back up. He is our most skilled player easily and he is really needed up forward kicking goals.

Stop this madness of Watts in the ruck.!

[The heart beats true 17,937]

http://m.afl.com.au/news/2017-04-25/mrp-slaps-cotchin-for-starting-melee-dees-skippers-fined

How ridiculous is this.

A player whose not on the ground (Riewoldt) gets involved with players in a melee and gets a fine!

Thats fundamentally wrong. It should be a free kick and 50 to the opposition side in the game (like it is with every other interchange infringement).

Being on the ground when your not supposed to is one thing, but being on the ground for the sole reason to be in a fight is just dumb.

[picket fence 16,819]

9 minutes ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

Has anyone noticed if Viney and Jones talk to each other during games.  Especially in time on, when the op get some momentum going or when we repeatedly lose our structures.  I haven't noticed them do so and wonder if they are running their own race.  

Even if Jones and Viney were physically injured last night they could still have talked to each other, marshalled the troops, enforced structures etc.  Those things aren't that hard to initiate are they?  Those things may not always work but to take no action...

...Baffling

Its called Dual captaincy and it never ever has worked or will work PERIOD!

If IF Jones is cheesed can't blame him, Viney is not a leader and I'll say it now never will be. Too limited a player, still tries to beat tackle after tackle, plays a limited type of game.

The real captain out there at the monet is WATTS !! 

The boy cometh the Man!

[Dr. Gonzo 23,932]

1 hour ago, Bobby McKenzie said:

In the last quarter Jeff Garlett had a run and passed to Hogan without success. He had plenty of clear space ahead of him so I wonder if he should have gone another 15 metres and had a shot himself.It would have given us a one goal lead and real hope. What do others think?

Definitely, couldn't understand why he didn't keep running. Shortly after JKH I think it was was running down the same flank and burnt Hogan on a lead when he was well in front of his man. Instead elected to bomb it to Garlett in the square. Two crucial errors when we desperately needed a score to stay in the game.

[Dr. Gonzo 23,932]

1 hour ago, bringbackthebiff said:

Interesting reading. 2 things always intrigue me about discussion with our midfield stoppages: 1 positioning and 2 handballing it around to create the loose man. 1: I like it when we position the midfield to win the ball, not to stop the opposition. When we are in top it looks awesome and no one criticises, when we get beaten the talk is we should man up etc. 2: Handballing around at a stoppage to create a loose man makes sense and the good teams do it well - I remember Geelong in their prime were brilliant at it. Simply the idea is to free up someone so they can the hit a target - not just throw it on the boot. It amazes me when it doesn't work out fans go nuts, but simply hacking it out is what crap teams do and good teams punish them on the turnover. Worse case is you get tackled and give up a free, however at least this lets the backs to set up. In my opinion both of these areas are a sign of a positive attitude our young midfielders have. They are backing themselves to win - exactly how I want them to think and play. 

Yep only criticism I'd make is we need to use the angles more instead of going directly backwards. Collingwood 2010/11 were expert at this, used triangulated handball from stoppages to cut through the opposition 

[red and blue forever 944]

Ok yes the game sucked major arse

 

But....

 

We have lost two games to undefeated teams  which we only really lost due to not having a ruckman for most of the game and lost anothet just to a up an com8ng team

 

Frankly we are actually flying at the moment  and there are major positives from our team  and very soon we will see the boys absolutely demolish our opisition 

 

 

Carn the dees   and keep up the support      we will be the most dominant team very soon