Training - Friday 9th December, 2016

[Dees2014 2,377]

10 hours ago, DeeSpencer said:

I got there at closer to 10:30, so no surprise if I missed a few but:

Missing: Lewis, Hibberd, Wagner, McDonald, T Smith, Hannan, Keilty, Flippers, Mitch King, DJ, Tyson, Jetta.

Laps: Pedersen, JKH. Oliver doing sprints up the side line.

Sprints and towing a sled behind them: Viney, Vanders, Trenners. These three guys look strong and fit. You barely notice the sled with the weight dragging behind Viney.

The rest started in smaller drills and then were doing some full ground ball movement. Getting the ball under pressure from one end and working it all the way up to the other before swapping over.

The usual standouts - Jones, Brayshaw prolific, Harmes involved with a nice fend off, Salem - so classy, Petracca's burst movement, Stretch getting out wide.

Not sure what will come of it but Spencer's movement continues to impress me. He's running on top of the ground at least.

Frost is such a zone defence weapon with his ability to break and intercept. Unfortunately, he's still a bit out of control when it comes to actually doing something with the ball.

Right now though my choice for third tall defender isn't Frost and definitely isn't Garland. I'd be picking 44 and seeing what he can do.

Ben Kennedy came back from AAMI with a band on his nose and a compression bandage on his forearm, think someone cleaned him up earlier in the session but he seemed fine.

Ben Kennedy injury happened right in front of me. A group were doing a drill which involved one player with the ball running straight at another player with a view to try and get past him. I was very impressed with the intensity with which this was carried out with the players getting really [censored] off with themselves when they missed the tackles and their opponent got through their defence. 

BK I think was trying to tackle Neville Jetta and his hand and part of his arm got tangled up in his jumper and he was pulled along by Jetta trying to get away. It looked as though he dislocated his shoulder and injured his hand. It was quite nasty, but fully accidental I might add. 

After that the players were yelling at each other to be careful about injuring their opponents. 

The intensity of it though was very impressive, as was all the training I saw particularly for this time of the year. 

 

[DeeSpencer 23,124]

3 minutes ago, Dees2014 said:

Ben Kennedy injury happened right in front of me. A group were doing a drill which involved one player with the ball running straight at another player with a view to try and get past him. I was very impressed with the intensity with which this was carried out with the players getting really [censored] off with themselves when they missed the tackles and their opponent got through their defence. 

BK I think was trying to tackle Neville Jetta and his hand and part of his arm got tangled up in his jumper and he was pulled along by Jetta trying to get away. It looked as though he dislocated his shoulder and injured his hand. It was quite nasty, but fully accidental I might add. 

After that the players were yelling at each other to be careful about injuring their opponents. 

The intensity of it though was very impressive, as was all the training I saw particularly for this time of the year. 

 

I think I heard some of that just as I was getting there.

Sounds like our own version of the Oklahoma drill.

 

 

[Pink Freud 325]

With a new coach coming onto the scene the opportunity is always there for every player on the list who makes an impact in the preseason to claim a place in the best 22. 

There's no reason why Garland who was out of vogue under Roos in his last year as coach to reestablish himself in the team. I wish him luck.

Naturally, this applies to any number of others on our list which is what makes things so exciting at the club at this time. Everyone can make it (with the possible exception of #8 who, on the face of it, doesn't appear to be interested). 

[Demons2riseagain 36]

10 hours ago, Satyriconhome said:

I am still at a loss, taking into account DD's information, I attended training on the first day Clarrie was back, he was clearly suffering from something, second session he had to pull out and after discussion with medical staff, sat down and waited for session to end

I approached him, he didn't look well and said he was feeling crook, I checked with Misso and he said the same thing

He disappeared from the next training session or two and then reappeared looking a lot better, I asked him after the session what had occurred and

said he had been sent for tests and it came back he had asthma/hay fever and was now on medication, but the whole episode had knocked him around, I would be surprised if he lied to me in such detail

He participated in the whole session or two after that, before appearing in the rehab/other group on Monday, as a lot of players including Nev Jetta and Dom Tyson have done the same, I didn't find this unusual

I also have approached Macca/Goodwin/Misso and asked whether anyone was brave enough to turn up not ready to go, and all said no, including Macca, you ask him a question and you get an answer, as others attest, so I believed them

I don't really care what you think SMJ,  I am over the negativity displayed on here, some need it to be able to post, I watched Clarrie motoring around the field  in repeat 400's the other day, didn't look underdone to me

I've seen >25 cases of hay fever/asthma in new patients over the last month (since the thunderstorm)- before this 3-4 for the year. I don't find the above hard to believe at all. 

Steroids and ventolin are making huge differences but may take a week or so to kick in. (Inhaled Steroids).. hope Clarrie feels better.

[Chelly 740]

2 hours ago, Demons2riseagain said:

I've seen >25 cases of hay fever/asthma in new patients over the last month (since the thunderstorm)- before this 3-4 for the year. I don't find the above hard to believe at all. 

Steroids and ventolin are making huge differences but may take a week or so to kick in. (Inhaled Steroids).. hope Clarrie feels better.

Can he take steroids and still be WADA compliant?

[pinkshark 935]

14 hours ago, bing181 said:

Yes.

Unfortunately, he won't be able to put in place what he's learnt until next pre-season. In the meantime, we get someone who'll be underdone all year, but perhaps more seriously in terms of finals etc., we get someone who runs out of steam late in the season - as we saw with Hogan, who went through a similar experience last pre-season, and has confessed as much.

Dear me... we may as well ask him to sit the year out.  A 19 year old, with freakish ability, has come back underdone.  Oh my.

[Redleg 37,567]

3 hours ago, Chelly said:

Can he take steroids and still be WADA compliant?

I seem to recall reading somewhere, that if a banned drug is prescribed by a Doctor, for a limited use, in a medical necessity situation, there is an exemption.

You may have to advise your sporting code of the use as well.

[Wiseblood 24,636]

2 hours ago, pinkshark said:

Dear me... we may as well ask him to sit the year out.  A 19 year old, with freakish ability, has come back underdone.  Oh my.

Doubt the club would have seen so blase in their assessment.  We need all hands on deck for 2017 if we're to push for finals, not important players reporting back underdone.

[DeeSpencer 23,124]

1 hour ago, Redleg said:

I seem to recall reading somewhere, that if a banned drug is prescribed by a Doctor, for a limited use, in a medical necessity situation, there is an exemption.

You may have to advise your sporting code of the use as well.

Yes, it's called a TUE (therepeutic use exemption). But probably isn't even needed for most common asthma drugs anyway. Just some of the asthma steroids have been used in high doses to either mask drugs or to produce some form of short term benefit, you'd have to ask the cyclists if they work.They are corticosteroids not anabolic steroids, so long term they break down muscle not build muscle anyway so asthma meds aren't something you'd take to cheat. 

[Satyriconhome 9,982]

18 hours ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Sat.. I don't want to get into a pissing contest with you as i have actually hadn't mind reading your training reports. But the 6 to 8 weeks off Clarry has had off since the VFL grand final is plenty of time to get his fitness up to a standard Misso and Goody wants. He obviously didn't meet that requirement and is now doing work with Crossy (poor kid) to get him up to speed. I read last week that you mentioned Oliver had picked up the hayfever asthma symptom when first week of training had started. By then they would have done skin fold testing and thats when they would have picked up that Oliver hadn't reached those required targets.

The Hey fever would not have stopped him doing the required physical work that was set out for him during that time off. Lets not forget that it was also mentioned in the MFC website that he turned up in unacceptable shape.

What i also will say on this issue is that its not a major crime that he has turned up in poor shape. I read Lenny Hayes biography and he mentioned that in his 2nd Pre Season he turned up 7 kilos overweight from his footy trip experience of sinking [censored] in Mexico! The coaching staff gaive him a bake and made him run lap after lap to catch up to the rest of the group. He never did it again.

Just goes to show even the true superstars of the game have had off season hiccups and have come out even stronger. Clarry will learn from this just like Hogan has. 

The only thing I do find a bit strange that if Oliver had turned up underdone, he would have immiediarely been put in rehab/other group, this was not the case, and when he returned from the couple of sessions off, again this was not the case.

Only last week has this occurred when he is doing the extra work. I assume like a couple of others I have spoken to as why they are in the group with no rehab from injury, they are working on part of their running.

One of Clarry's 'weaknesses' last year was his engine, perfect opportunity after recovering from being ctrook, some sessions with Crossy

If some want to believe he came back underdone, their choice

Edited December 10, 2016 by Satyriconhome

[Its Time for Another 4,053]

22 hours ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Sat.. I don't want to get into a pissing contest with you as i have actually hadn't mind reading your training reports. But the 6 to 8 weeks off Clarry has had off since the VFL grand final is plenty of time to get his fitness up to a standard Misso and Goody wants. He obviously didn't meet that requirement and is now doing work with Crossy (poor kid) to get him up to speed. I read last week that you mentioned Oliver had picked up the hayfever asthma symptom when first week of training had started. By then they would have done skin fold testing and thats when they would have picked up that Oliver hadn't reached those required targets.

The Hey fever would not have stopped him doing the required physical work that was set out for him during that time off. Lets not forget that it was also mentioned in the MFC website that he turned up in unacceptable shape.

What i also will say on this issue is that its not a major crime that he has turned up in poor shape. I read Lenny Hayes biography and he mentioned that in his 2nd Pre Season he turned up 7 kilos overweight from his footy trip experience of sinking [censored] in Mexico! The coaching staff gave him a bake and made him run lap after lap to catch up to the rest of the group. He never did it again.

Just goes to show even the true superstars of the game have had off season hiccups and have come out even stronger. Clarry will learn from this just like Hogan has. 

DD you're joking right. You're obviously not an asthmatic. People die from not being able to breath, little own try to do intense training when they can't breath properly. And you don't think that would impact him being able to do the required physical work.

Everything I've read from everyone could all be true. Probably likely is. If undiagnosed asthma and OP prevented him from reaching his targets that is completely understandable and not a reflection on his attitude. Despite the fact this may not be his fault Goody and Macha could still be disappointed he didn't reach his targets even if not his fault as it means they will get less teaching into him as they have to compensate for his effected preparation by spending more time getting his fitness up to the acceptable level.

On the other hand he might just be an undisciplined alcoholic drink driver who turned up having done no preparation as some on here seem to think. 

I choose to think the former not the later.

Edited December 10, 2016 by It's Time

[John Dee 437]

If you are out of breath, you cannot breathe.

[Satyriconhome 9,982]

20 hours ago, dazzledavey36 said:

The Hey fever would not have stopped him doing the required physical work that was set out for him during that time off. Lets not forget that it was also mentioned in the MFC website that he turned up in unacceptable shape.

From Club Website   Oliver, who averaged 19.2 disposals per game in his first season, has had a slow start to this pre-season and has been training with the rehab group as he looks to return his fitness levels to an acceptable standard.

So the above is open to interpretation, he has had a slow start because he was crook or he has had a slow start because he came back unfit

Jack Trengove has had a slow start to the pre season and has spent 3 or 4 weeks in the rehab group because they have been building the load to his foot gradually or he came back unfit

Cam Pedersen has had a slow start to the pre season because he has had a couple of ops and  he has spent last 3 weeks in rehab or came back unfit

Edited December 10, 2016 by Satyriconhome

[Grapeviney 8,815]

10 minutes ago, Satyriconhome said:

From Club Website   Oliver, who averaged 19.2 disposals per game in his first season, has had a slow start to this pre-season and has been training with the rehab group as he looks to return his fitness levels to an acceptable standard.

So the above is open to interpretation, he has had a slow start because he was crook or he has had a slow start because he came back unfit

The answer is (c) - both. 

[binman 37,994]

Just now, Grapeviney said:

The answer is (c) - both. 

Yep. I think it probably is.

So can posters leave it there please. Things have been going along nicely in the training threads. Hats off to the moderators for their decision to stop derailment. Lets make there job easier and leave chat about chub a lub choo choo out of training threads 

[dazzledavey36 48,723]

 

As we all know he is now getting put through a rigorous program by none other then Daniel Cross which im completely happy with as there is no other better professional to learn off.

Its not a major issue..

[Moonshadow 16,166]

Sorry to be a nuisance and change the topic, but could someone who was there on Friday possibly give me some insight on how the Weed trained? Was he sharp? Has he put on some more muscle? I'm hoping to see him play a bit more this year and team up with Jesse.

[Deestroy All 14,261]

16 hours ago, Dees2014 said:

BK I think was trying to tackle Neville Jetta

First mistake.

[jayceebee31 666]

On 9 December 2016 at 1:28 PM, binman said:

I remain hopeful Garland can bounce back and become a regular best 22. At his best he has much to offer.  I assume the club think this also as otherwise they would have let him go.

Something was not quite right last year, no idea what but he strikes me as someone who can lose confidence and when he does finds it hard to get it back.

That said he is going to find it very hard to break back into the back line with Hibberd and Melksham coing into the side and Wagner in favor.

Garland was never a top defender in my opinion.At best a reasonable minder....may have been a fair winger...but now not in the top 30/32.best players.

[Stretch Johnson 2,568]

14 hours ago, Grapeviney said:

The answer is (c) - both. 

The ability to think in shades of grey is a rare one unfortunately.

Here's to young Oliver getting his fitness to an acceptable standard.

[Dr. Gonzo 22,412]

16 hours ago, John Dee said:

If you are out of breath, you cannot breathe.

Thanks Guru Bob

[dazzledavey36 48,723]

Why was my comment deleted?

Edited December 10, 2016 by dazzledavey36

[SidVicious 121]

3 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Why was my comment deleted?

So that the rest of us could better appreciate this thread, no doubt.

[picket fence 15,129]

If the boys are training Wednesday or Thursday, I am free and will attend and give my customary elloquent and right on the money appraisal of form and eclectic random thoughts on players for all you wonderful folk on Demonland! 

I think I can already say that Clarry Choo Choo will be "Training the House down"!

Edited December 10, 2016 by picket fence

[dazzledavey36 48,723]

1 hour ago, SidVicious said:

So that the rest of us could better appreciate this thread, no doubt.

A comment that was still in regards training and Clayton Oliver? 

 

Edited December 11, 2016 by dazzledavey36