POST MATCH DISCUSSION - Round 19

[doc roet 1,199]

What irrites me is that we seem to bring our best to games which we are really and knowingly up against it,

yet games against mediocre clubs,we fall away.Got me stumped.

[Demon Dynasty 15,559]

Go You good things!  Thank Lucifer for Jacky Boy and Vanders!

On the rebound from the toughest road trip out west and still a very inexperienced team overall. I'll take that win any day. In the past we probably have dropped that one, and not by a few points either 

If more players can clean up some of their ugly kicking skills (Vince running at 30% by foot at one point about half way through the 3rd quarter! That doesn't count that last kick haha) then we should start to see some wins against better rated opponents

 

[Binmans PA 26,227]

18 minutes ago, KingDingAling said:

Our midfielders were absolutely disgraceful today. Not only didn't they make full use of Max Gawn, but they consistently burnt Watts on the lead. Pathetic. Thankfully Watts kept trying, and eventually he was rewarded. Will be a much easier game to watch when quality like Petracca and Oliver roam that midfield.

Minus Tyson. And Viney was injured. No excuses for Jones or Vince.

[Lucifers Hero 37,133]

Jesse was the only player to wear a black armband today.  I suspect it wasn't for a family member otherwise teammates would have also worn one.   

But it was clearly someone close to Jesse.  This may have weighed heavily on him today.  Could also explain why he was so subdued for the team song.

[Chris 2,892]

21 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

As usual there are those that want to twist events and outcomes to sate their own argument. 

My view has never been its just good enough to win only about winning. 

Its to be able to play football properly and capably in a manner that wins.

Last week we threw away a win because a team had no idea how to. Not a lot changed this week other than we were playing a distinctly undermanned team who play woefully away. We still as a team had no idea how to Play properly or capably and it was purely the efforts of Avery few and especially one that saved us the ignominy ofagain stealing defeat from the jaws of victory. 

If anyone found that game anything other than offensive to the eye then they have very different standards to many of us who found it a deplorable effort as a team. If GC had been a tad better we would have lost again and deservedly so.

We took the 4 points but in as much a sheepish fashion as must be possible. 

Only a small handful of Dees could be justified in being content with effort and outcome and certainly none would have been sitting in the box.

Some folk here have a very skewed appreciation of reality. Matches their ability to present it.

BY, here is a quote from you last week. 

"Whilst many bask in the luminosity of our great positives I'm bemused how few seem concerned about the inabity to craft a win. This is not about them 'trying' to win, which they obviously were, it's about any capability to make the magic work when required. 

In contrast the team that should have lost by all accounts didn't. They found a way to win. We need to find this ability."

I take from that that you would be happy today as we seem to have found the ability you were after? 

[Ethan Tremblay 28,427]

57 minutes ago, Clint Bizkit said:

Hogan doesn't lead at the ball carrier any more, I'd love to know why.

Because he's gone.

[beelzebub 22,225]

3 minutes ago, Chris said:

BY, here is a quote from you last week. 

"Whilst many bask in the luminosity of our great positives I'm bemused how few seem concerned about the inabity to craft a win. This is not about them 'trying' to win, which they obviously were, it's about any capability to make the magic work when required. 

In contrast the team that should have lost by all accounts didn't. They found a way to win. We need to find this ability."

I take from that that you would be happy today as we seem to have found the ability you were after? 

Im happier to take4points as not. But that wasn't a team effort. This point glossed over time and time again. That wasn't so much us winning as failing to lose as surely we were playing that way save for a small handful of players.

The TEAM hasn't found any real ability to win, they fell over the line ably pushed by the few , led by Watts.

This is hardly the picture you're painting in your demonstration is it.

That was crapp footy but luckily against an even crappier team.

But hey hallelujah, we're winning, we're there at last.

Really !!??

[Binmans PA 26,227]

20 minutes ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

Jesse was the only player to wear a black armband today.  I suspect it wasn't for a family member otherwise teammates would have also worn one.   

But it was clearly someone close to Jesse.  This may have weighed heavily on him today.  Could also explain why he was so subdued for the team song.

Good spot, LH. I did notice his black armband at one point.

[Mono 454]

Team won after an interstate trip week before. - very big tick.

Notwithstanding 6 day break, I expect they will give a very good account of themselves against Hawthorn next week.

3 4 observations: forward line didn't work at all, and high bombs didn't help; Hunt is a revelation; Gawn impacted game zilch, despite 60 taps; Vince had a poor game.

Edited July 31, 2016 by Mono

[Dr. Gonzo 22,489]

24 minutes ago, Nasher said:

I refuse to look. Even I felt like having a big old sook about everything today, so I hate to think how the match day thread regulars went.

I couldn't help but laugh at it all.

[loges 6,097]

Just have a feeling now Frost is being played in his correct position and getting more experience he will be a gun

[Chris 2,892]

14 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

Im happier to take4points as not. But that wasn't a team effort. This point glossed over time and time again. That wasn't so much us winning as failing to lose as surely we were playing that way save for a small handful of players.

The TEAM hasn't found any real ability to win, they fell over the line ably pushed by the few , led by Watts.

This is hardly the picture you're painting in your demonstration is it.

That was crapp footy but luckily against an even crappier team.

But hey hallelujah, we're winning, we're there at last.

Really !!??

It wasnt me who has said winning is everything BB, it wasn't me who said I was happy with today, it wasn't me who refuses to see positives in losses either. I also haven't said we are there. But hey, contradict what you said last week, thats fine. The fact is we found a way to win, that is what you said you wanted to see so why are you not happy?

[Lucifers Hero 37,133]

Some Round 19 results:

GWS Giants 17.9 (111)      d   Richmond 3.5 (23)

Port Adelaide 25.23 (173)   d   Brisbane Lions 11.13 (79)

Sydney Swans 21.11 (137) d   Fremantle 7.5 (47)

Adelaide Crows  22.11.143 d   Essendon 9.7.61 Not long ago that was us on the receiving end of a thrashing.  I'll take a nail biting 2pt win every day of the week!!

 

[grazman 6,483]

1 hour ago, Petraccattack said:

Petracca only had 14 touches yet he stood out like a sore thumb.  His kicking and decision making are already first class.

Ditto Hunt.

[The heart beats true 16,237]

"I love Jack, he's one of the best people I've met in footy, and to see him get the reward is really exciting."

I love reading this by Roosy. Makes the win feel like it meant something. 

[Ethan Tremblay 28,427]

Frost is becoming one of my favourite players, Hunt also.

[Red and Bluebeard 2,041]

Hogan didn't have a great game, but did seem to persist. There was one time in the first quarter I think when we had the ball from a mark outside the 50, and Watts ran past him to lead, and ended up with the mark and a shot at goal. I thought at the time that if Jesse would make a habit of leading like Watts did that that surely makes him less predictable, and hence even harder to defend.

From the season's perspective, he is travelling pretty well, and if anything the team owes him one from the first St Kilda game when he kicked seven straight (which may have been paid back today).

Speaking of Watts, there is no question that he was our best today, but I still wonder whether we are robbing Peter to pay Paul by putting him in the ruck. He seem exhausted late in the game, especially when taking "that" kick.

[Bang Bang Bang 5,504]

1 hour ago, olisik said:

Have you seen Bontempelli play recently? We would be a top 8 team with him in it.

Bontempelli was considered a reach at pick 4 and was never going at pick 2. It's very possible we wouldn't have taken Kelly either, with names like Aish, Scharenberg and Billings being in the mix. Heaven forbid if we had held onto the pick and taken one of those battlers. The same people complaining now would be having a hissy fit. Tyson is a steady midfielder good for 25ppg and Salem is all class when fit (which to be fair isn't often enough).

[Macca 16,173]

For the most part we've played our best footy against the better teams this season. 

It does happen from time to time in sport but I've never seen it explained.  However, I'd take those those unusual outcomes over only being able to play well against the lesser-lights.  The unusual nature of our season shouldn't necessarily be seen as a negative ... previously the team went completely missing in big games (primarily for about 8 years)

Our best performances this season has involved the games against the Hawks,  Crows,  North,  Eagles & GWS.  We weren't disgraced against the Doggies but we were towelled up by the best wet-weather team going around (Sydney)  It should be noted that we've played reasonably well or quite well in most of our wins too.

As others have said, take the win and move on but I'd rather start looking at the overall year and where we go from here (and that includes the next 4 games)  Today was not a good indication of the progress we've made this season but at least the attack on the ball was more than decent.  Our clearance numbers were good (again) but those clearances were often sloppy. 

The defence played very well as a unit today - they are obviously under instruction to use the corridor whenever possible (or switch the play) so the odd error is going to happen as a consequence of this departure from how we've previously moved the ball from the defence.  That stands to reason.  However ...

• We have to find a way to better utilise Gawns dominant ruckwork.
• We definitely need some outside class and run but finding those types is easier said than done  
• We need to learn how to spread better - the teamwork is there but it lacks polish. 

The FD might be better off trying to convert some of our inside grunt into outside runners.  Of course, the off-season awaits and some of the solutions could or should be found there.

[beelzebub 22,225]

26 minutes ago, Chris said:

It wasnt me who has said winning is everything BB, it wasn't me who said I was happy with today, it wasn't me who refuses to see positives in losses either. I also haven't said we are there. But hey, contradict what you said last week, thats fine. The fact is we found a way to win, that is what you said you wanted to see so why are you not happy?

Again, what's with the winning is everything ?

I've always maintained it's about be able to win (as a TEAM) and win when it's there. Yes we won today . Hardly convincing. 

Ffs we stole Candy from a baby and Les enfants almost took it back.

Im not the one seeing it all black and white. Didn't think you were either.

We didn't win today as much as GC were better at losing. 

Jack and a few mates won today . EVERYONE else lost.

 

 

Edited July 31, 2016 by beelzebub

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

30 minutes ago, loges said:

Just have a feeling now Frost is being played in his correct position and getting more experience he will be a gun

What gives you this idea?

[Guest]

14 minutes ago, Macca said:

• We have to find a way to better utilise Gawns dominant ruckwork.
• We definitely need some outside class and run but finding those types is easier said than done  
• We need to learn how to spread better - the teamwork is there but it lacks polish. 

I remember the list you wrote in 2013 about the things we needed to improve on/were borderline insipid on. It's quite an improvement to go from the 20 you quite rightly pointed out back then to move to 3 (though to be fair, the list you put up there wasn't all inclusive).
We have improved again this year. The haters can whinge all they like. It's a fact. 

[Earl Hood 5,789]

1 hour ago, Bitter but optimistic said:

Just back at The Manor after a very shitty game of football.

Jack Watts played his best game ever. This was the game of a mature footballer and leader who was on the spot when most needed.

Dom Tyson was effective without being spectacular. Geez he worked hard.

We frigged around with ball to a chronic level. What is the problem with kicking the ball toward our goals? I would also like to know what Hogan's role is? He works his arse off and takes marks/gains possession all over the ground. Can he do this and be a key forward? I must say that Jack Watts did just this but he has about 100 games hard won experience on Hogan. Jesse seems down on confidence to me and I wonder if lack of role clarity is contributing?

Yes I totally agree Uncle if Jesse doesn't have clear line of sight between his designated role and the team's mission statement and goals then there will enevitably be engagement and alignment issues and confusion about the strategic direction the team is pursuing. No wonder he struggled today and the fact he slid into the point post hurting his knee didn't help either. 

[John Crow Batty 8,258]

18 minutes ago, Macca said:

For the most part we've played our best footy against the better teams this season. 

It does happen from time to time in sport but I've never seen it explained.  However, I'd take those those unusual outcomes over only being able to play well against the lesser-lights.  The unusual nature of our season shouldn't necessarily be seen as a negative ... previously the team went completely missing in big games (primarily for about 8 years)

Our best performances this season has involved the games against the Hawks,  Crows,  North,  Eagles & GWS.  We weren't disgraced against the Doggies but we were towelled up by the best wet-weather team going around (Sydney)  It should be noted that we've played reasonably well or quite well in most of our wins too.

 

A many decades old problem for us. Pizz weak losing culture and player hubris  getting above themselves thinking they can mix it with the elites and shun the plebs.  We are the effing plebs.  So if we want  to rise we better learn to win the winnable games first before we tackle  the tough opponents. 

[Coq au vin 754]

12 minutes ago, Clint Bizkit said:

What gives you this idea?

Troll