Training observations

[Moonshadow 16,317]

1 minute ago, Ethan Tremblay said:

Especially if you sit on it for a while and make it numb.

I won't argue with an expert!

[Biffen 12,366]

11 minutes ago, Bitter but optimistic said:

Must say, I do a lot of repetitive drills.

Quite enjoyable really.

You certainly seem to enjoy working on yourself.

You have been lucky to avoid RSI.

[Ricky P 757]

2 hours ago, jnrmac said:

Just imagine our win/loss ratio if we had only kicked the league average goals.. Wouldn't be pretty. It's arguable that we have have done better than we should have....

Yeah, we've really ridden our luck in executing the most important skill in the game better than pretty much every other team.

[Ricky P 757]

Goalkicking is worse these days because we ask all players to do more stuff: tackling, chasing, running up and down the field, playing different positions. Back in the day the full forward just had to mark it, whack people and kick straight. Therefore goalkicking was a specialist skill and goalkicking players could spend more time working on it.

[Salems Lot 2,380]

It is pure balderdash to suggest that practice does not improve technique..plain unadulterated balderdash.

(great word balderdash)

 

[Ricky P 757]

3 minutes ago, Salems Lot said:

It is pure balderdash to suggest that practice does not improve technique..plain unadulterated balderdash.

(great word balderdash)

 

Agreed. Ripping word.

[Moonshadow 16,317]

8 minutes ago, Ricky P said:

Goalkicking is worse these days because we ask all players to do more stuff: tackling, chasing, running up and down the field, playing different positions. Back in the day the full forward just had to mark it, whack people and kick straight. Therefore goalkicking was a specialist skill and goalkicking players could spend more time working on it.

Absolutely. Hard to kick straight when the GPS stats are showing 15Km+ 

[FarNorthernD 5,848]

Without being in possession of figures from the past 30 years I think most would imagine that set shot goal kicking has, at best, stagnated or gone backwards.

However the number of the 25m curling, miracle goals from the boundary has skyrocketed. 

My favourite goal is the long, long Malcolm Blight/Gary Lyon/Warren Dean bomb from outside 55 that sails through half post height.

 

[monoccular 16,248]

5 hours ago, Rod Grinter Riot Squad said:

I have seen the same thing and it is why you are missing the point.........

Missing the point is not the point - that is OOB: missing the goal is the point. 

[Ricky P 757]

18 minutes ago, fndee said:

Without being in possession of figures from the past 30 years I think most would imagine that set shot goal kicking has, at best, stagnated or gone backwards.

However the number of the 25m curling, miracle goals from the boundary has skyrocketed. 

My favourite goal is the long, long Malcolm Blight/Gary Lyon/Warren Dean bomb from outside 55 that sails through half post height.

 

Yeah good point, those goals from the boundary are more common.

My favourite goal is the running sealer. Stinga was a specialist. Bernie is pretty good at it these days.

[mauriesy 6,819]

The stilted action players use these days for set shots is half the problem. When I see players going back 30 metres then walking two-thirds of the way back in, before they start running to kick it, I worry. They're-over examining it mentally.

Jason Dunstall and Tony Lockett had a more natural kicking action for goal. Jack Watts likewise. Buddy Franklin might run in an arc but when he kicks the ball it's fluent and natural just like his field kicking. Josh Kennedy and Jesse Hogan might have stuttering run-ups but at contact they're both OK.

[Red and Bluebeard 2,044]

1 hour ago, Salems Lot said:

It is pure balderdash to suggest that practice does not improve technique..plain unadulterated balderdash.

(great word balderdash)

 

Practicing your balderdash? Does balderdash get better with practice? Do pies get better with sauce?

[Akum 2,660]

10 hours ago, pitmaster said:

Only a rare attendee at training (second time this year), my observations may not be news to others so if I waste your time that's why. However, I gave up some time while passing Gosch's today and thought I would pass on what I could.

First, I was rapt to see Salem participating in all the midfield drills and looking sharp. That's my good news. The other difference was to see skills-specific training. Other times I have watched training in Roos' time the emphasis was on moving the ball up the ground, switch plays, when to go to the corridor. This was different. This was about working on particular skills.

Initially, there were multiple groups working on inside to outside football with midfielders crowding the contest for the ball and then the side that won it spreading quickly from the contest with ever longer handballs before the final player was 'released' with a 15 metre handpass and then kicked to one of his teammates who had spread sufficiently to create a marking contest. Neither Grimes nor Trengove appeared handicapped (i.e.: too slow) in the context of this. Each set up had a "winning team" who had first use of the ball and a "defending team" which was supposed to hold them up. Then they switched roles.

Next, and what a relief after last week, came some serious goal kicking practice. Other times I have been to training goal kicking has been an after thought where the blokes take a ping after the serious running and other drills are done. Today the group split into two. At one end they practiced deliberate shots with the man-on-the-mark props set at five different angles and distances. At the other players practiced goal kicking on the run and inside 20 metre snapshots. The first received a handball then took a shot from 35-40 metres, then gathered a bounced ball near the goal square while running across the goal face for a quick snap. Then, they swapped ends and the deliberates went for the on the run shots etc. The only one who did not complete this was Watts who left the ground after taking part in the deliberate shots. He unwrapped a bandage from his wrist and spoke briefly to Misson. It seems had been instructed not to take part in the handball receive goal run since before they received the handball the players had to either short pass or hand pass it to the coach to begin the move.

Next defenders did a spoiling drill and then spent time working on switch plays with short, 30 metre passes rather than those looping ones we see in games.

The forwards - Hogan, Dawes, Petracca, Garlett - continued working on their deliberate shots. About time.

 

First of all, great observations.

Second, it's just so great to hear that, even in such a good performance as last weekend, they're focussing on the areas we fell down in a bit. The ideal way to use training time.

Third, this matter of "inside-to-outside football", as you put it, is the absolute key to us moving up the ladder big time. We're such a good contested ball team (thanks to the likes of Gawn, Viney, Tyson, Jones et al) that if we can get the "inside-to-outside" right, we'll be really hard to play against.

 

Edited July 27, 2016 by Akum
Didn't quite come out like I wanted it to

[RalphiusMaximus 5,993]

I actually think that as a team we a re pretty solid on Goal-Kicking.  Not to say that it can't improve, but we do pretty well.  The thing I would love to see them working on is team leading patterns from our forwards, creating space for each other, freeing up someone to get clear on a lead and then the midfielders actually hitting that lead.  I maintain that the single biggest factor in our close losses this year has been our persistent high long bomb to the square when attacking.  It's not even a 50-50 ball these days.  It's basically handing it over and offering them a free counter-attack. 

[Ricky P 757]

3 hours ago, Akum said:

First of all, great observations.

Second, it's just so great to hear that, even in such a good performance as last weekend, they're focussing on the areas we fell down in a bit. The ideal way to use training time.

Third, this matter of "inside-to-outside football", as you put it, is the absolute key to us moving up the ladder big time. We're such a good contested ball team (thanks to the likes of Gawn, Viney, Tyson, Jones et al) that if we can get the "inside-to-outside" right, we'll be really hard to play against.

 

Bit of the old in-out is crucial.

[Trisul 640]

6 hours ago, Ricky P said:

Yeah, we've really ridden our luck in executing the most important skill in the game better than pretty much every other team.

I'd suggest that a big reason for our high league average is that a significant number of our goals this year have been from getting out the back of other teams.  It's hard to miss from 1-10m out.  Watts has also contributed to the accuracy with his excellent kicking and number of goals.

Edited July 27, 2016 by Trisul

[CBDees 3,162]

After reading through 66 posts of this "training" thread, it seems that only the original poster (Pitmaster) had actually been to the session and posted his observations. Couldn't somebody have started a goal-kicking thread? Good original post by the way.

[Brownie 5,367]

12 hours ago, Satyriconhome said:

I am a great believer that if you have been playing footy since a kid, then you 'should' know how to kick a goal, no amount of practice will replace trying to kick a goal in a game, with the tiredness, the crowd, the perceived pressure

that's like being a guitarist and only playing the guitar once a week when you're on stage in front of a big crowd. 

yes it's different for sure on match day. but you play that instrument every day until you don't even have to think about it.

there's a great saying I heard from a jazz musician once.

don't practice for a day.. you'll know it.

don't practice for two days.. the band knows it

don't practice for three days.. the whole world knows it.

I reckon sport is no different. preparation is everything.

[Akum 2,660]

5 hours ago, Ricky P said:

Bit of the old in-out is crucial.

Yeah but you have to do it right.

[Lucifers Hero 37,207]

19 hours ago, pitmaster said:

Only a rare attendee at training (second time this year), my observations may not be news to others so if I waste your time that's why. However, I gave up some time while passing Gosch's today and thought I would pass on what I could.

First, I was rapt to see Salem participating in all the midfield drills and looking sharp. That's my good news. The other difference was to see skills-specific training. Other times I have watched training in Roos' time the emphasis was on moving the ball up the ground, switch plays, when to go to the corridor. This was different. This was about working on particular skills.

Initially, there were multiple groups working on inside to outside football with midfielders crowding the contest for the ball and then the side that won it spreading quickly from the contest with ever longer handballs before the final player was 'released' with a 15 metre handpass and then kicked to one of his teammates who had spread sufficiently to create a marking contest. Neither Grimes nor Trengove appeared handicapped (i.e.: too slow) in the context of this. Each set up had a "winning team" who had first use of the ball and a "defending team" which was supposed to hold them up. Then they switched roles.

In a few games we have done exactly that!  We 'crowd the contest' but op team keeps some players back, when they win the contest they spread and run like crazy to their forwards and (often an open) goal because our defenders had come up so far they can't get back fast enough. This was very vivid vs Ess, StK, Port and Sydney. 

This strategy is high risk if we don't win the ball and has cost us dozens of goals all year and a few games.

It is also high risk when we do win it because often Viney and Tyson try to take on the tackler or kick it out.  The ops know that so they let them 'win' it and gang tackle forcing the ball free or get a free kick. (Hawthorn are the absolute masters at this).  Ops half forwards are ready and expect this so as soon as the tackle happens they start to spread forward before our defenders can catch up.  Again it often ends up in an easy goal.

In summary, I'm not a fan of 'crowding the contest' if the op don't or if Viney and Tyson can't get the ball out faster.  We have a better chance of the 'crowding the contest' strategy working when Oliver plays as he has such quick hands, god bless him.  Nonetheless,opponets have figured out our strategy and know how to neutralise it. 

Hope we have some other tricks up our sleeve!

Edited July 27, 2016 by Lucifer's Hero

[Vagg 2,422]

10 hours ago, monoccular said:

Missing the point is not the point - that is OOB: missing the goal is the point. 

Mono, that is the most sensible thing written on this whole thread!  Well done!

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

14 hours ago, Satyriconhome said:

I am a great believer that if you have been playing footy since a kid, then you 'should' know how to kick a goal, no amount of practice will replace trying to kick a goal in a game, with the tiredness, the crowd, the perceived pressure

Let's all just take a minute to appreciate how idiotic this statement is.

[Samael 560]

12 hours ago, Ethan Tremblay said:

Why do golfers practice goal kicking?

Seems a bit daft doesn't it. I played footgolf once in Belfast. Soccer ball was kicked around a golf course. The holes all had slight rise which meant you got it in or it rolled away. Bleeding hard but really great fun. Beers did not help. 

[daisycutter 28,630]

10 hours ago, Red and Bluebeard said:

Practicing your balderdash? Does balderdash get better with practice? Do pies get better with sauce?

does poppycock get better with more poppy or more .........?

[Generation dee 1,336]

23 minutes ago, Clint Bizkit said:

Let's all just take a minute to appreciate how idiotic this statement is.

It's half correct

 I think your distaste for that poster clouds your comprehension of what he is saying. Which is fine, but do you disagree that kicking a goal with numerous cameras, thousands of spectators and millions of home viewers, coupled with game time fatigue  and the pressure of the scoreboard is harder to prepare for than kicking at training?