POST MATCH DISCUSSION - Round 15

[jnrmac 20,053]

2 hours ago, The heart beats true said:

Great effort, but some really bad turnovers. Adelaide turned over the ball a lot too.

Big thing for me is we are still 2 midfielders short of a good team. We need Petracca, Brayshaw and Oliver to all come on in the back half of the year and get bigger tanks so they can roll through the midfield. Coming off an extra 4 day break we still couldn't run it out and honestly looked shot with 5 minutes to go in the 3rd.

Dawes' days are coming to an end. Should keep him on to add bulk for the winter months but we need another forward that can compete in the air.

Positives - Hunt is a ripper. Jesse Hogan has great hands in close. That 2nd quarter. Frost needs to be better in the air but looks so much better in defence.

Petracca spent the last quarter in the midfield. I think that's the first time he has done that...he hadn't done much else for the game (altho laid a great tackle) and Roos was trying something different..

[Soidee 1,496]

3 minutes ago, old dee said:

VFL form seems to have little to do with Selection stuie. Dawes had average form and in he comes, Grimes has been in the top three for weeks and cannot get a game. 
Dawes has had one reasonable game and two very ordinary ones. 

Dawes is a poor player at this stage of the career and should not be playing IMO.

Dawes is done and dusted!!!!!! He is a relic that must be dropped and never return to the team.  He is a liability.

we are a team that shows flashes of brilliance and lots of fumbles, poor disposal, poor decisions and a total lack of killer instinct to win games like today.  We had momentum and then drank our own bath water at half time.  I'm backing us to recruit some faster players because speed is really lacking.  Hunt is a real find!!!  I have been to so many losing games at the G I am so flat.

[Undeeterred 3,113]

6 minutes ago, Ted Fidge said:

Today was a very entertaining game where the better side won, by about the right margin considering the difference between the sides.

Let's not forget that AFC are a well drilled side and worked their game plan better than we did.

When we got the ball they crowded us (as every side knows to do) and did it very well. That is what forced the handball handball handball high floating kick sequences that we saw.

And when they got a turnover, they always got a man or two loose. Very quickly. Really, they were good to watch to see how they did it. That's what we should aspire to.

Those goals at the start of the third were the deciding factor. To win this game we needed to get in front early and stay there, to force them to play catch up. If they got in front, it was going to put awful pressure on our leaky defence, who, as it turned out, lived up to expectations and let through too many easy goals.

Instead, they got the jump on us twice, once in the first quarter, and again in the third. Easy walk in goals that can kill confidence.

What was our response? It was pretty good. We didn't drop our bundle in the first, kept the margin manageable, and fought back. Scintillating second quarter. That's why we come to the footy. At the twenty minute mark of the second quarter, the scores had exceeded the full time scores of the previous night's unwatchable game between two "Big Snore" clubs.

We turned the tables on them and forced them off their game. (Just couldn't do it for long enough.)

In spite of their superior execution of game plan, in spite of the c0ck ups and turnovers, forced errors, blind kicks, Tracc invisible, OMac overwhelmed, Kent/Bugg/Kennedy/Harmes off their game, etc etc, there we were, right in it against one of the premiership favourites. I call that encouraging.

Twenty minute mark of the last, we were still in it.  Needed a mighty effort, one to keep the footy journos w@nking themselves for a week, but still do-able. Because these days we have the scoring fire-power to pull it off.

Which brings us to ...

Dawes. Fewest possessions of any player on the ground. Someone said he is a "defensive forward". This must be a new thing in footy. Like a cricketer being a non-scoring batsman. Or a non-wicket-taking bowler.

Fact is he has always been that rarest of things, a key forward who can't mark the ball. Today he even had trouble getting into the marking contest. Let alone getting his mitts on it.

It really is like playing one short.

We all know Pedo is the key forward that John West rejected. But he at least takes some marks. He at least kicks some goals. He at least brings the ball to ground so our mids and small forwards have a chance of grabbing it. He's not the future. He'll never get better than he is now. But he's a better option than Dawes, every week.

What about TMac? He's becoming a whipping boy. Frustrating as hell. He can do beautiful things in defence. But for every good thing he does, he seems to nullify it (and very soon after, it always seems) with a horrible error. We've seen enough to know that that is what he brings. He isn't going to get better than he is now. Frost may have passed him. But we still need another KPD if we want to be a top side.

But that's the thing. TMac can do good things.

Dawes seems not to do anything much.

Spot on.

[—coach— 3,496]

Was down the city end today behind the goals with my 3yo Demon tragic daughter (poor child). Thought our defenders did a pretty good job today despite the Eddie Betts show at times. The ball often came if fast and deep, even the best defence in the world would have issues with that. On the other hand Daws was seriously second rate and anyone else on our list would be a better option (including anyone who is injured and on crutches). Hogan looked poor at times, but I reckon that was a delivery issue. It seems like our forwards don't know what to expect, they lead and it gets kicked over their heads, they stay back its kicked short. No doubt we handball ourselves into trouble too much. 

PS Thank the football gods for Jetta

[jnrmac 20,053]

7 minutes ago, Ted Fidge said:

Today was a very entertaining game where the better side won, by about the right margin considering the difference between the sides.

Let's not forget that AFC are a well drilled side and worked their game plan better than we did.

When we got the ball they crowded us (as every side knows to do) and did it very well. That is what forced the handball handball handball high floating kick sequences that we saw.

And when they got a turnover, they always got a man or two loose. Very quickly. Really, they were good to watch to see how they did it. That's what we should aspire to.

Those goals at the start of the third were the deciding factor. To win this game we needed to get in front early and stay there, to force them to play catch up. If they got in front, it was going to put awful pressure on our leaky defence, who, as it turned out, lived up to expectations and let through too many easy goals.

Instead, they got the jump on us twice, once in the first quarter, and again in the third. Easy walk in goals that can kill confidence.

What was our response? It was pretty good. We didn't drop our bundle in the first, kept the margin manageable, and fought back. Scintillating second quarter. That's why we come to the footy. At the twenty minute mark of the second quarter, the scores had exceeded the full time scores of the previous night's unwatchable game between two "Big Snore" clubs.

We turned the tables on them and forced them off their game. (Just couldn't do it for long enough.)

In spite of their superior execution of game plan, in spite of the c0ck ups and turnovers, forced errors, blind kicks, Tracc invisible, OMac overwhelmed, Kent/Bugg/Kennedy/Harmes off their game, etc etc, there we were, right in it against one of the premiership favourites. I call that encouraging.

Twenty minute mark of the last, we were still in it.  Needed a mighty effort, one to keep the footy journos w@nking themselves for a week, but still do-able. Because these days we have the scoring fire-power to pull it off.

Which brings us to ...

Dawes. Fewest possessions of any player on the ground. Someone said he is a "defensive forward". This must be a new thing in footy. Like a cricketer being a non-scoring batsman. Or a non-wicket-taking bowler.

Fact is he has always been that rarest of things, a key forward who can't mark the ball. Today he even had trouble getting into the marking contest. Let alone getting his mitts on it.

It really is like playing one short.

We all know Pedo is the key forward that John West rejected. But he at least takes some marks. He at least kicks some goals. He at least brings the ball to ground so our mids and small forwards have a chance of grabbing it. He's not the future. He'll never get better than he is now. But he's a better option than Dawes, every week.

What about TMac? He's becoming a whipping boy. Frustrating as hell. He can do beautiful things in defence. But for every good thing he does, he seems to nullify it (and very soon after, it always seems) with a horrible error. We've seen enough to know that that is what he brings. He isn't going to get better than he is now. Frost may have passed him. But we still need another KPD if we want to be a top side.

But that's the thing. TMac can do good things.

Dawes seems not to do anything much.

Pedo has only played 58 games. There is every chance he will get better..

[Soidee 1,496]

TMac for all his qualities he equally screws up regularly every game without fail.  He is the turnover King of the MFC, he either has a tiny brain or never learns from his mistakes.  

[Diamond_Jim 12,511]

35 minutes ago, Return to Glory said:

For the love of God, can someone explain to me why we are playing Fremantle in the NT. Team that up with the Alice Springs 'home' game and playing two games at Etihad  v StKilda and it's an appalling decision with no eye on the long term benefit of actually winning games on one's own patch. We're saying goodbye to 12 points before we even start the season.

Sorry to go off topic.

All Melbourne teams have to play one of their home games at Etihad. It was part of the guaranteed deal that the AFL did with the stadium to get them out of some other forgettable deal that they had done which was (I am sure you get the drift)

As to the two NT games they are our fault just like all those home games we used to sell to the Lions. In defence of the club I suspect the AFL "encouraged" us as part of their largesse.

Just one more hurdle for those clubs that merely make up the TV numbers

Edited July 3, 2016 by Diamond_Jim

[Bang Bang Bang 5,801]

I don't mind losing games like today as the effort was clearly there. Adelaide are a chance for the flag and we matched them for 75% of the game, so we're not that far off.

Jayden Hunt is the find of the year, certainly for this club and maybe even league wide (in the mix at least). Is there any use for an ageing Lumumba past this season? Hunt plays like Harry did when he was All Australian.

I like the new Jack Watts. I like him a lot. He'll never justify the #1 pick but he's now a certainty to at least finish in the 'reasonable' category like Fraser and Johnstone. He might even end up better at this rate.

I like to think that the coaches know better than us, but at the same time I think the fans get it right most of the time. For that reason, I'll be absolutely [censored] off if Dawes is retained next week. I have this sneaky suspicion he will be though. He has never been dropped at Melbourne.

TMac can defend but how many goals does he cost us offensively with his horrid disposal? I want him to stay but lets not pay him the world. He's B-grade at best, they're easy enough to find.

Freo in Darwin is a nightmare proposition. We'd annihilate them at the G but in the Northern Territory it's a flip of the coin. We've never beaten Ross Lyon. Unlike today I'll be seriously [censored] off if we lose and get carved up by Riewoldt the following week. Must win at least 1 of the next 2. 

Edited July 3, 2016 by Sylvia Saint

[stevethemanjordan 6,952]

10 minutes ago, jnrmac said:

Pedo has only played 58 games. There is every chance he will get better..

He is 28 so I'm not sure how much 'better' he'll be getting.

 

[SaberFang 7,151]

Just now, stevethemanjordan said:

He is 28 so I'm not sure how much 'better' he'll be getting.

 

Better than Dawes, at least. It's like having a cement mixer on the field.

[junk 342]

It is time to give out the pink slips.

[Undeeterred 3,113]

2 minutes ago, Sylvia Saint said:

I don't mind losing games like today as the effort was clearly there. Adelaide are a chance for the flag and we matched them for 75% of the game, so we're not that far off.

Jayden Hunt is the find of the year, certainly for this club and maybe even league wide (in the mix at least). Is there any use for an ageing Lumumba past this season? Hunt plays like Harry did when he was All Australian.

I like the new Jack Watts. I like him a lot. He'll never justify the #1 pick but he's now a certainty to at least finish in the 'reasonable' category like Fraser and Johnstone. He might even end up better at this rate.

I like to think that the coaches know better than us, but at the same time I think the fans get it right most of the time. For that reason, I'll be absolutely staggered if Dawes is retained next week. I have this sneaky suspicion he will be. He has never been dropped at Melbourne.

TMac can defend but how many goals does he cost us offensively with his horrid disposal? I want him to stay but lets not pay him the world. He's B-grade at best, they're easy enough to find.

Freo in Darwin is a nightmare proposition. We'd annihilate them at the G but in the Northern Territory it's a flip of the coin. We've never beaten Ross Lyon. Unlike today I'll be seriously [censored] off if we lose and get carved up by Riewoldt the following week. Must win at least 1 of the next 2. 

I'd love Lumumba to go back to the roll Hunt is playing now (which is Lumumba's role) and for Hunt to roll through the midfield. I think he's the speed we need on the outside, that we're hoping Billy Stretch and Matt Jones would be. 

A nice clean handpass from Dom Tyson or Nate Jones, and he'd be off.

That goal today where he took off on Jenkins and was inside 40 in a heartbeat was just sensational.

[_becks_ 35]

How much longer can we continually play Kennedy, Kent & Harmes  in the same side???

If they could play through the midfield then maybe. But they tend to play that half forward role and i'm not sure they bring enough to the team. 

I'd be swapping one of them for Neal-Bullen

[—coach— 3,496]

8 minutes ago, Sylvia Saint said:

Freo in Darwin is a nightmare proposition. We'd annihilate them at the G but in the Northern Territory it's a flip of the coin. We've never beaten Ross Lyon. Unlike today I'll be seriously [censored] off if we lose and get carved up by Riewoldt the following week. Must win at least 1 of the next 2. 

We could very easily drop the next two.

Im confident we will allow Riewoldt to run free for 3/4 of the game, then wake up and put somebody on him in the last.

[bing181 9,193]

3 minutes ago, _becks_ said:

How much longer can we continually play Kennedy, Kent & Harmes  in the same side???

I'd be swapping one of them for Neal-Bullen

I wouldn't have put Kennedy in there, he's generally handy and not a bad kick - unlike the others.

For mine, don't see ANB as anything more than deck-chair-shuffling.

[Wiseblood 24,637]

3 minutes ago, --coach-- said:

We could very easily drop the next two.

Im confident we will allow Riewoldt to run free for 3/4 of the game, then wake up and put somebody on him in the last.

True, but we could also very easily win the next two.  At a guess, and knowing our consistency, we will probably go 1-1 over the next two weeks, but I'd be expecting to win both.

[jnrmac 20,053]

8 minutes ago, bing181 said:

I wouldn't have put Kennedy in there, he's generally handy and not a bad kick - unlike the others.

For mine, don't see ANB as anything more than deck-chair-shuffling.

Kennedy's fantastic spoil today where he crunched the Crows player (not sure who) was amazing. Right in front of me and he smashed him. I wish we had players that would do that more often. Opposition players should know that when the stand under a ball they will get crunched by one of our players. Ben Ken will get selected next week just for that I reckon.

I still anoys me that we had a chance to crunch Justin Blumfield early in the 2000 Grand Final. It would have set the tone for the day but instead we squibbed it. I'll let it go one day......

 

[Watts the matter 1,235]

Just now, jnrmac said:

Kennedy's fantastic spoil today where he crunched the Crows player (not sure who) was amazing. Right in front of me and he smashed him. I wish we had players that would do that more often. Opposition players should know that when the stand under a ball they will get crunched by one of our players. Ben Ken will get selected next week just for that I reckon.

I still anoys me that we had a chance to crunch Justin Blumfield early in the 2000 Grand Final. It would have set the tone for the day but instead we squibbed it. I'll let it go one day......

 

Missed two very easy goals that he needs to kick if he wants to keep playing. Had plenty of time to steady on both occasions.

[La Dee-vina Comedia 16,675]

30 minutes ago, Soidee said:

TMac for all his qualities he equally screws up regularly every game without fail.  He is the turnover King of the MFC, he either has a tiny brain or never learns from his mistakes.  

Or he's told to take risks which might sometimes work (in which case the risk-taking isn't really noticed because the game has moved on).

 

 

 

 

[jnrmac 20,053]

1 hour ago, Je Roos Salem said:

Holy garbage it was painful. I think we have to drop Dawes and play smaller or rest some of our backs there. It pains me to see Dawes getting regular games and someone like Grimes being told they aren't part of the future. This is absolute szhit. He is not a target yet he played closest to goal most of the time and Watts got moved back- what the hell is that for a tactic.

Also- Vince and Petracca playing off half back? I think Roos is closing up shop with some of this coaching. 

WE MISS TARGETS BY HAND AS REGULARLY AS BY FOOT.

Despite his possessions (N) Jones' disposal was really disappointing

Stat of the game: Matt Jones used the ball at 90%, Nathan at 48.5% 

 

Petracca was in the centre bounces all the last quarter..... Just sayin....

[leave it to deever 17,511]

It is interesting that many of us thought we would win today. I thought we would.

Despite the bitterness of losing we are clearly a much improved team.

Interestingly, It is because of this improvement that we are all so frustrated.

We went close to beating a top side today. We are at a level now we we are tantelisingly good enough to compete with top teams but not good enough to win.

4 years ago we would have been thumped and all agreed about how [censored] we are. Now however because we can almost beat good sides we are probably more frustrated.

At least now we can compete and see the areas we need to address like 2 more decent defenders. one more good midfield and a 3rd fwd/ruck

 

 

[jnrmac 20,053]

1 hour ago, Je Roos Salem said:

Holy garbage it was painful. I think we have to drop Dawes and play smaller or rest some of our backs there. It pains me to see Dawes getting regular games and someone like Grimes being told they aren't part of the future. This is absolute szhit. He is not a target yet he played closest to goal most of the time and Watts got moved back- what the hell is that for a tactic.

Also- Vince and Petracca playing off half back? I think Roos is closing up shop with some of this coaching. 

WE MISS TARGETS BY HAND AS REGULARLY AS BY FOOT.

Despite his possessions (N) Jones' disposal was really disappointing

Stat of the game: Matt Jones used the ball at 90%, Nathan at 48.5% 

 

That's pathetic quoting thiose stats. It means nothing.  NJones operates under much more pressure. 9 tackles, 1 goal 1 pt and 33 hard fought posessions. Hardly an easy one all day. He is a star.

[Gator 17,261]

Oscar McDonald drops a crucial chest mark, Tyson drops a crucial chest mark,  Vince makes critical mistakes, Frost makes critical mistakes, Matt Jones fumbles at a critical time, Nathan Jones can't hit Hogan on the chest from 20 metres ( very late in the third quarter), Tom McDonald has perfected the art of kicking into the man on the mark, Bugg lacks class, and the list goes on.  We should have won that game. 

I look forward to Oliver, Brayshaw, Weideman and Hulett being staples in this side. 

[jnrmac 20,053]

1 hour ago, Wadda We Sing said:

I thought Buggs handpass to Bernie, who I think kicked a goal, in the last was crucial, wasn't allowed, not sure why?

I heard the ump say that Bernie ran through the mark and that was not allowed.. Never knew that I have to say. Pretty sure its not even a rule.

[leave it to deever 17,511]

1 hour ago, stuie said:

Agree, but it's not Pedo.

 

I didnt want to say it, but I think your right. Who else is there though?

Another good tall frwd would make Watts, Hogan and Garlett one of the best in the comp