Where does Chris Dawes fit in all this?

[stuie 7,374]

3 minutes ago, drdrake said:

I laugh about he can't ruck comments, neither can Pederson or Frost.

It's more a matter of the amount we lose when any of them ruck rather than "how well" they ruck, and Pedersen is, at least at the moment, the best option of the 3 for giving Max a chop out.

 

[Sir Why You Little 34,443]

Pederson is Blue Collar no doubt. But he gives 110% every game. Forward or back

watch a replay of the games this year. Focus on Pederson throughout. 

Number 21 is always competing

Very underrated worker. 

[Biffen 12,323]

13 minutes ago, stuie said:

It's more a matter of the amount we lose when any of them ruck rather than "how well" they ruck, and Pedersen is, at least at the moment, the best option of the 3 for giving Max a chop out.

 

So you've completely changed your mind despite rating Dawes above Pedo for pages of meaningless footy prose.

[Binmans PA 26,051]

46 minutes ago, It's Time said:

I don't think there's a definite answer at this point. But I would say this :-

1. Dawes best is better than what Pedersen and Frost have shown this season. Can he get back to his best? We won't know that till he's played a few games at Casey.

2. Pedersen has all the capabilities, good contested mark, agility, run but just doesn't seem to be able to play for 4 quarters. He always goes missing. He also tends to get the yips in front of goal.

3. Frost is definitely improving week by week but he is a very raw, young, long term prospect. Probably a backman being forced to play forward for the time being. He can't kick a set shot to save himself and nowadays you can't carry players like that. He also is a long way off getting involved enough in the play. He's still learning how to play the game. We've been lucky we've had the luxury of carrying him so far this season while he learns on the job.

I don't see it being a Dawes for Pedersen choice. I think it's more likely to be Dawes for Frost. 

I can't see us playing Dawes and Pedersen in this team. It's one or the other. 

[dazzledavey36 48,734]

7 minutes ago, AdamFarr said:

I can't see us playing Dawes and Pedersen in this team. It's one or the other. 

If Pederson can actually start to really impact the scoreboard i have no doubt he'd be a very important best 22 member of our team. Does everything else right just need 2-3 goals a week from him.

[boydie 653]

If you watch how we've been rotating our key forwards this year then I don't think Dawes has a place in the side.

Each match we've seen a key forward drop back in defense to either help out or near the end of the quarter to ensure another score isn't conceded, its generally been one of Pedersen, Watts or Hogan.

There's nothing stopping Dawes being pushed back, but considering he can't mark we can't afford him to do that only to spill a mark and concede a goal. Dawes will be great for Casey and the Weed but for him with Melbourne he is the past, Pedersen is the medium term and the Weed is the long term.

I know at the end of the year I'd be offering a 1 year deal to Pedersen over Dawes. Dawes has played AFL, he's won a premiership, he's made some decent money, and the bloke is smart and has a career for life after footy, I don't feel sorry that his career is coming to end, rather thanks and move on.

[Willmoy1947 3,772]

Good discussion point this. Love the fact we have got two Collingwood Premiership Players in our Team at different times, plus a very handy in and under.

When they are all fit and in is anyone's guess. These blokes are proven GOOD in finals, and not to be underestimated. As "time" says let's just see....

[hemingway 7,589]

5 hours ago, Deestar9 said:

We are nowhere near a Premiership side.  If Chris Dawes gets his body right (& finally he has the luxury of being able to do that) I would have a premiership player with a fantastic footy brain & an amazing appetite for the footy in my side any day of the week.  And...I bet any small forward or indeed forward at Melbourne would echo that sentiment 

Given his track record it is highly unlikely he will ever get his body right. I like Dawsy but he has very limited value for us in a playing role and to build a top team we need a settled line up and consistent performance from all players, and that means game time from week to week.  I suspect that we will never see his best simply because he will not be able to string enough games together whether that be at Casey or in the ones.

[Moonshadow 16,168]

58 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Pederson is Blue Collar no doubt. But he gives 110% every game. Forward or back

watch a replay of the games this year. Focus on Pederson throughout. 

Number 21 is always competing

Very underrated worker. 

Completely agree WYL. One look at the 20 goals clip on the website will show you he was involved in many of them, not to mention the work in the backline when giving Gawn a rest.  In time, Weid will hopefully become the other KPF we need which will add to the competition for forward spots. It will be interesting to see if Dawes can leave the rehab cycle behind and recover fitness and in form. Needs to bang the door down hard, I can't see that happening anytime soon.

[DemonDave 1,078]

Chris Dawes is only 27. The way some people are saying he'd be better in a coaching role you'd think he's well past 30!

Like most I agree that Dawes' best is better than what Pedo or Frost have to offer. Frost is miles off being a consistent AFL player IMHO.

I assume given the natural attrition during the year I expect him to see more games this year once fully fit

[nutbean 8,837]

45 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

If Pederson can actually start to really impact the scoreboard i have no doubt he'd be a very important best 22 member of our team. Does everything else right just need 2-3 goals a week from him.

Never ever ever ( ever ) going to happen - if we can get  a 1 goal a week I would be delighted - that means 20 plus for the year. 2-3 goals makes means 46 goals to 72 for the year. 

I do agree that he does need to impact the scoreboard more  - you are just setting the bar a wee bit high.

[sisso 2,388]

Any chance he could do a Jarrad Waite and hit career best form late in his footy life? If he gets fit of course: sometimes big blokes peak around 30

[WattsGawnOn 122]

He doesn't...

 

[Dees2014 2,377]

6 hours ago, AngryAtCasey said:

Has the potential to take Pedersen's spot and rotate between FF & CHF with Hogan. 

It would mean that Frost becomes 2nd ruck and we play him as a utility with stints down back and on the wing. 

This would require Dawes to play some great footy at VFL level first however.

Dawes is a premiership standard player at his best. Frost will never be. Get Dawes back to Casey and have him show what he's currently got. Dawes/Hogan in full flight would be awesome.

[Little Goffy 12,565]

I thoroughly on the 'Pederson makes a difference by constantly working and forcing an opponent to work to cover him' wagon. He's also having pretty regular moments when he directly makes an impact, surprisingly often at important moments. Add to that his demonstrated versatility and he's a 'preferred tall' in our team.

I like some of the things Frost does and I think he has a future, but I'm not convinced he should be a stable part of the 22 at the moment. He has time.

Dawes... I respect him but I feel like he is not really dangerous. A bit predictable and a bit slow to act and would not quite fit into the mad inventor way we are playing at the moment. Same boat as Garland at the moment - respectable footballer, not a 'loser' but also not someone who will make a team win games.

Melbourne is moving past adequate, and I fear Dawes is only adequate. We'd be better off bringing in an extra, dangerous, player in a different position than bringing in Dawes as a back-up 2nd or 3rd tall.

My thinking is also influenced by the belief that Hogan can work quite well without a crowd of other tall forwards around him. I'd already be dropping Frost as I think the extra space and focus on Hogan would actually create more goals than having Frost out there as well!

 

 

[Buzzy 931]

1 hour ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Pederson is Blue Collar no doubt. But he gives 110% every game. Forward or back

watch a replay of the games this year. Focus on Pederson throughout. 

Number 21 is always competing

Very underrated worker. 

Ran back with the flight, hard into a pack last weekend when the game was already won.  That's the attitude we love.

[FarNorthernD 5,839]

Chris Dawes' future involves study, club admin, club CEO, big business experience and then maybe coming back to run the AFL in twenty years time. Don't think it involves pulling on our club colours too many more times

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

I was thinking this last night after the article dropped. I can't believe how young he is. It feels like he's on his last season for some reason, when he's still just a kid as far as KP players go.

[Maldonboy38 5,861]

If Dawes can reproduce something close to his best footy over a 4 - 6 week period at Casey, he must be a consideration for our 22. Roos has been very strong about consistent FORM, not history or expectation. So Dawes must earn his spot and at the moment I can't see Frost or Pederson getting weaker any day soon. I am a fan of Pedo and put him in the Lynden Dunn category. Because he is not flashy or spectacuar, we often miss some of the great work he does, especially getting to contests in a defensive capacity. Dawes will need to show something special to knock Pedo out of the 22. 

Further, individuals keep surprising us this year. Matt Jones is very unlicky to be out of the side, as is VDB, yet I cannotsee how they will getback in with Brayshaw, Trengove and Oliver sitting at Casey. Something tells me that Dawes might surprise us when fully fit (yes, I know, if he ever gets fully fit!)

In the last half of this year, our forward 50 will probably have Hogan, Watts as our main tall options, with Dawes being overtaken by Weideman. Pedo as our utility/second ruck.

[Dees2014 2,377]

6 hours ago, drdrake said:

I laugh about he can't ruck comments, neither can Pederson or Frost.

Personally, I think this discussion will become academic if Jake Spencer finds form and fitness over the next month or so. I would much prefer us to have two genuine ruckmen in the side with Max resting down forward, than add another tall forward who can't ruck. It is possible before the season is out that none of Frost, Pederson or Dawes will be in the side, but we will add Jake Spencer as a genuine second ruck, Weideman as a fast leading full forward, and Jesse as CHF. Personally, I think that is a much better balanced side. I also think that is the selectors long term plan.

So that would make our best side by second half of year: 

FB:   Jetta               McDonald      Dunn

HB:   Lumumba      Wagner           Salem

CC:   Hunt               Jones             Harmes

HF:    Kent              Hogan            Petracca

FF     Garlett            Weideman     Watts

Foll:   Gawn             Viney              Vince

Inter:. Spencer   Brayshaw   Oliver.  Tyson

Emerg:.  Trengove.  Vanders Kennedy Bugg

My only concern is it is starting to look a bit small, especially in defence. Full of quality mid fielders though which is supposed to be the modern trend. 

Finals side in my book

Edited April 29, 2016 by Dees2014

[Chris 2,892]

2 hours ago, Dees2014 said:

Personally, I think this discussion will become academic if Jake Spencer finds form and fitness over the next month or so. I would much prefer us to have two genuine ruckmen in the side with Max resting down forward, than add another tall forward who can't ruck. It is possible before the season is out that none of Frost, Pederson or Dawes will be in the side, but we will add Jake Spencer as a genuine second ruck, Weideman as a fast leading full forward, and Jesse as CHF. Personally, I think that is a much better balanced side. I also think that is the selectors long term plan.

So that would make our best side by second half of year: 

FB:   Jetta               McDonald      Dunn

HB:   Lumumba      Wagner           Salem

CC:   Hunt               Jones             Harmes

HF:    Kent              Hogan            Petracca

FF     Garlett            Weideman     Watts

Foll:   Gawn             Viney              Vince

Inter:. Spencer   Brayshaw   Oliver.  Tyson

Emerg:.  Trengove.  Vanders Kennedy Bugg

My only concern is it is starting to look a bit small, especially in defence. Full of quality mid fielders though which is supposed to be the modern trend. 

Finals side in my book

I dont mind the look of that and I see Frost, Dunn, and O Mac competing for the same spot in future

[ILLDieADemon 804]

Still put him ahead of Frost at CHF when fit.

He will get a game because Roos will rest players some time through the season as the interchange cap will start tiring players  out. 

[Gipsy Danger 1,067]

I've mentioned this before.  I'd like to see Dawes re-invented as a key defender.  In the Brian Lake type mould. 

I think our current KPD stock tend to get caught out against the big gorilla forwards like Hawkins

would take some time but we know he can compete and wrestle. 

Edited April 29, 2016 by Hellfish

[boydie 653]

7 hours ago, DemonDave said:

Chris Dawes is only 27. The way some people are saying he'd be better in a coaching role you'd think he's well past 30!

Like most I agree that Dawes' best is better than what Pedo or Frost have to offer. Frost is miles off being a consistent AFL player IMHO.

I assume given the natural attrition during the year I expect him to see more games this year once fully fit

Yes, Chris is 27, but his body is 44 going on 45.

[Coat of Harmes 2]

22 hours ago, Members' Wing said:

I still think Dawes' best is better than that of the other two. If he can get his body right he's still best 22 for mine.

Really? You believe that Dawesy deserves a spot over Frost? For me its a flip of a coin between Dawes and Pederson, but I'd take Frost over him every day. Frost is giving Max a few minutes rest playing ruck, something Dawes can't give us.