Changes vs. North

[old dee 23,916]

12 hours ago, praha said:

I don't think he had a good game.

I doubt you will get an arguement on that one praha

[old dee 23,916]

11 hours ago, Petraccattack said:

So sick of losing to these pretenders.  If we cant beat Essendrug can we at least end the North curse ffs

Not this year a win is a week off.

[DistrACTION Jackson 9,602]

This is the team I'd play for this weekend (injuries permitting). I know this won't be the team picked as for some reason certain players are gifted games but I guess I wish this would be the team.

B:    Jetta       Dunn    O Mac

HB:  Vince     T Mac   Salem

C:    Stretch   Viney    Kennedy

HF:  Watts     Frost     Vandenberg

F:    Garlett   Hogan    Kent

R:    Gawn     Tyson    N. Jones

Int:   Bugg     Neal-Bullen   Oliver   M. Jones

 

[La Dee-vina Comedia 16,950]

If O Mac is fit, I expect him to come in before Dunn as (a) he's taller and we lack height in the backline, (b) he's the future and Dunn is not and (c) the footy department seem to have O Mac ahead of Dunn and Frost as a key defender at the moment. However, that doesn't mean Dunn can't also be picked so we play a taller backline overall. I could see Garland playing on a smaller player and T Mac, O Mac and Dunn lining up on North's tall forwards. This would mean Vince and N Jones both playing on ball instead of one of them off half back. The four smaller, rotating backs would be Lumumba, Salem, Jetta and Garland with the first two also playing on the wing on occasions.  

If Dunn and O Mac come in, I could see Kent and Bugg/Harmes being dropped unless there's a player who is injured or needs a rest. I'm also sorely tempted to suggest Frost for Pedersen to add more pace but while Frost adds athleticism, he doesn't offer much else at the moment.

[nutbean 8,838]

12 hours ago, Is Dom Is Good said:

There's a difference between being able to run fast and breaking through the defence using quick ball movement. I know Lumumba won't be dropped but I really struggle to see how anyone could think he had a good game? He literally runs past a guy, gains about 15m and then bombs it to a pack of 4 or 5. The ball is either punched over the line or it's mopped up by the opposition. We looked so much more dangerous without him running it out of defence.

There was a reason we had over 100 less uncontested possessions than Essendon - we refused to run and create separation and space. Lazy and stagnant.

H will occasionally turn the ball over, but the reason Roos rated him was valid - he was one of the few who was prepared to run - he would run and look ahead and see statues. When he was on at Collingwood for many seasons, he would do stupid stuff as he will do with us but he was constantly the first defender that would grab and go and if the lazy footballers upfield would work a bit harder to get free then you would get better value out of him. 

He didn't have a good game but neither did anyone else save Kennedy.

[Coq au vin 755]

Last year their tall forwards thrashed us.

[Coq au vin 755]

14 minutes ago, nutbean said:

There was a reason we had over 100 less uncontested possessions than Essendon - we refused to run and create separation and space. Lazy and stagnant.

H will occasionally turn the ball over, but the reason Roos rated him was valid - he was one of the few who was prepared to run - he would run and look ahead and see statues. When he was on at Collingwood for many seasons, he would do stupid stuff as he will do with us but he was constantly the first defender that would grab and go and if the lazy footballers upfield would work a bit harder to get free then you would get better value out of him. 

He didn't have a good game but neither did anyone else save Kennedy.

Most of our players bomb it long to a pack or to no one. Then it turns over and comes back via pinpoint passing done by the other team with loose players everywhere. Is this Roos game plan or are our players lazy and stupid?

[Bombay Airconditioning 6,463]

DUNN FROST JETTA

VINCE TMAC SALEM

STRETCH VINEY KENNEDY

VB PEDO WATTS

JEFFY HOGAN KENT

GAWN JONES ANGUS

 

TYSON H OLIVER ANB

[stuie 7,374]

8 minutes ago, Bombay Airconditioning said:

DUNN FROST JETTA

VINCE TMAC SALEM

STRETCH VINEY KENNEDY

VB PEDO WATTS

JEFFY HOGAN KENT

GAWN JONES ANGUS

 

TYSON H OLIVER ANB

Team lineup or just shouting out names?

[stuie 7,374]

We should start a Changes v Collingwood thread so all the same posters here can go and copy+paste their standard "OUT: *Lumumba, M.Jones" posts, because clearly they don't actually watch the games to make their decisions.

*They will spell it every single different way other than that.

[JV7 2,368]

If Dunn doesn't come in this week I'll give it away. He has to play.. Petrie is his ideal match up. Oscar McDonald would be thrown to the wolves against the bodies of Petrie or Waite. Norths talls forwards do provide a tough task.. I've said it all along Frost needed to be played down back from day one but that didn't happen so we're a tall defender short.

Dunn v Petrie

T. McDonald v Brown

Garland v Waite 

Jetta v Thomas 

Ideally Garland would get Thomas but he'll be forced to play tall on one of those big 3. Unless Frost is bought in and tried down back (don't see it happening) 

If I was Roos I'd be tempted to give last weeks team a shot at redemption. Not sure who makes way for Dunn, dropping Kent who I thought was appalling, especially defensively but that disrupts the balance a bit and his pace could exploit North if he decides to use it but that's the only change I would make

IN: Dunn 

OUT: ?? 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 4, 2016 by JV7

[Demonated 252]

I know this is a complete overreaction but would it be the worst idea to actually drop Hogan for a week? He is still our most talented player and makes us semi dangerous in the forward half but my logic is this and this alone. The club has talked about not just gifting games to anyone and they have to earn it. Hogan obviously has credits in the bank and is by far our best forward however, if you need to work for a game, he hasn't met that criteria. 

Not performing is semi justified if there is an effort made by the player. Hogan however is barely leading, and when he loses a contest, he doesn't even make a token 2nd effort. It would not help us in the next game by any stretch of the imagination but it would at least make us honest, instead of saying 'you earn your spot' and then turning around and literally gifting games to a player who is giving absolutely zero effort. He has had 6/7 quarters out of 8 so far where he hasn't even bothered trying.

If one of our less talented players (say Matt Jones or another 'fringe' player) did this they would be dropped without second though. Why not practice what we preach and show Hogan we mean what we say. Trying is an absolute minimum, performing is an outcome and great talent is a bonus. Imagine Neitz doing what Hogan is right now, it would never, ever happen.

Neal-Bullen performed in the 2's yes? He gets a game. Dunn gets one too. Drop Hogan to make a very strong point to everyone and Kent because he didn't want to be there on Saturday. Let Tmac play forward for a week, Dunn down back and ANB for Kent. It'll make our team weaker but I don't want the club to bend to the will of a 20 year old with amazing talent and a sometimes shocking attitude.

Edited April 4, 2016 by Demonated

[3Dee 1,153]

[Pennant St Dee 13,322]

Outs:

Kent first one out and whilst he has the leg speed we crave, he doesn't gut run and lacks the ability or want to bring himself into the game, he needs at least 2 weeks to a month in the VFL to find desire and the application required on a permanent basis to be an AFL player

Brayshaw - looked underdone and I think Oliver may have been emotionally spent from the media attention last week, so would give him a light week on the track

Harmes - not like the rest he has the work ethic but had a shocker although he wasn't Robinson Crusoe

Pedersen - wasn't our worst and I see merit with him to give big Max a chop out against Goldy, but we look top heavy and slow, so Frost comes in for him

Ins

Dunn - needs to come back in experienced big bodied defender must in against Norf

Frost - needed to assist with the forward structure, give 

ANB - smart footballer and a good decision maker which we need more and more of

Stretch - need his run from the wing

B:  Jetta    Dunn   Garland

HB:Salem  Tmac   Lumumba

C:  Stretch Oliver   Vince

HF: Watts    Frost   Kennedy

F:  Garlett  Hogan ANB

R: Gawn, Jones, Viney

I/C:Bugg, Tyson, Vanders & M, Jones

Lumumba is lucky to stay in as his turnovers and ability to run into trouble killed us, Bugg and M Jones need defensive forward roles and run with roles on Harvey/Atley split between them, Wells is the one I struggle to find a match up for

 

[dl4e 5,851]

I cannot believe people want brayshaw dropped. He is one of our best players. Leave him in the seniors for match hardening.

[stuie 7,374]

1 minute ago, dl4e said:

I cannot believe people want brayshaw dropped. He is one of our best players. Leave him in the seniors for match hardening.

No one is suggesting dropping him because he isn't a good player. But with an underdone Brayshaw and a half preseason Oliver in the team it didn't help our lack of run on Saturday.

[drdrake 3,187]

13 minutes ago, stuie said:

No one is suggesting dropping him because he isn't a good player. But with an underdone Brayshaw and a half preseason Oliver in the team it didn't help our lack of run on Saturday.

Agree with this, can Brayshaw play 90 mins of AFL football, you need to pick one Oliver or Brayshaw, I reckon they are good for 60% game time at the moment.  Brayshaw give him 2 games at Casey. You then will have 3 good footballers AFL ready in a fortnight, Brayshaw, Trengove and Petracca.  I would target Richmond 24/4 for all three

[MadAsHell 4,217]

Had time to calm down and think about it.  I propose 4 changes:

IN: Dunn, Frost, Hunt, O. McDoanld

OUT: Brayshaw, Harmes, Kent, Pedersen

FB: Garland, Dunn, Jetta

HB: Lumumba, O. McDonald, Salem

C: Bugg, N. Jones, Tyson

HF: Vandenberg, T. McDonald, Kennedy

FF: Watts, Hogan, Garlett

FOLL: Gawn, Vince, Viney

INT: Frost, Hunt, M. Jones, Oliver

EMERG: Harmes, Neal-Bullen, Stretch

Firstly I'd be looking to throw Tom McDonald forward as Hogan needs someone to help take the pressure off.  We can manage this by brining both Oscar & Dunn back into the side:

Garland takes Waite, Dunn to Petrie & Oscar to Ben Brown.  I'd also play Sam Frost as a tall utility.  Can play him as 2nd ruck, give any of the talls a spell when they need one and you could even throw him on a wing when need be given his pace.

Also I think Jayden Hunt could be worth a punt given his pace.  We've been exposed with a lack of leg speed in the opening two matches, so I reckon Hunt is worth a go.  Could just as easily go with Stretch though. 

Brayshaw & Kent need to play the house down at VFL level to get back in & Neal-Bullen would be the unlucky one to miss out for me.

[Devil is in the Detail 883]

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2016-04-04/demons-should-consider-dropping-horrific-hogan-says-lloyd

Lloyd wants Hogan dropped. Can't say is disagree.

[Pates 9,661]

3 hours ago, stuie said:

We should start a Changes v Collingwood thread so all the same posters here can go and copy+paste their standard "OUT: *Lumumba, M.Jones" posts, because clearly they don't actually watch the games to make their decisions.

*They will spell it every single different way other than that.

Believe me I was watching the game and while yes Lumumba was positive in his movements he turned the ball over/made it extremely difficult for his teammate almost every time. While it would be my preference to drop him, that is clearly not going to happen but what needs to happen is the players know what will be happening when he gets the ball and present opportunities and be prepared for it. 

Essendon dos a very good job of zoning us and stopping ball movement. That said we were also our own worst enemies with turnovers. 

I can see ANB possibly coming in for Kent, or Brayshaw who looked underdone. Beyond that I don't think there'll be many changes. But there will be players put on notice, and rightfully so. 

[old dee 23,916]

3 minutes ago, Pates said:

Believe me I was watching the game and while yes Lumumba was positive in his movements he turned the ball over/made it extremely difficult for his teammate almost every time. While it would be my preference to drop him, that is clearly not going to happen but what needs to happen is the players know what will be happening when he gets the ball and present opportunities and be prepared for it. 

Essendon dos a very good job of zoning us and stopping ball movement. That said we were also our own worst enemies with turnovers. 

I can see ANB possibly coming in for Kent, or Brayshaw who looked underdone. Beyond that I don't think there'll be many changes. But there will be players put on notice, and rightfully so. 

If Dunn does not come in then there is definitely a problem between him and the coaching panel.

[rjay 25,202]

2 hours ago, Pennant St Dee said:

Outs:

Kent first one out and whilst he has the leg speed we crave, he doesn't gut run and lacks the ability or want to bring himself into the game, he needs at least 2 weeks to a month in the VFL to find desire and the application required on a permanent basis to be an AFL player

 

 

Not sure he's going to make it 'Pennant'. At the moment he's very average depth at best...

[old dee 23,916]

2 minutes ago, rjay said:

Not sure he's going to make it 'Pennant'. At the moment he's very average depth at best...

He has a history of one good good game and two poor ones.

[poita 3,902]

4 hours ago, nutbean said:

H will occasionally turn the ball over, but the reason Roos rated him was valid - he was one of the few who was prepared to run - he would run and look ahead and see statues. When he was on at Collingwood for many seasons, he would do stupid stuff as he will do with us but he was constantly the first defender that would grab and go and if the lazy footballers upfield would work a bit harder to get free then you would get better value out of him. 

He didn't have a good game but neither did anyone else save Kennedy.

Not occasionally, consistently turns the ball over. Reason being that our forwards have led under the ball by the time that he finishes running around in circles and then delivers a moon ball to the resultant pack. However, his big problem is that he is a defender who doesn't defend / tackle / chase / etc.

[La Dee-vina Comedia 16,950]

32 minutes ago, old dee said:

He has a history of one good good game and two poor ones.

I think you're being generous. I think he has a history of one stunningly impressive patch of play followed by long periods of inactivity in the same game. His best is terrific, but it is far too infrequently seen.