Saturday Talking Point: The NAB Challenge

[dazzledavey36 54,285]

1 hour ago, Deecisive said:

I see the NAB challenge as being pretty important to the club. If we go out and get whooped then some supporters may be turned off signing up. If we go out and play attractive football we may attract a lot of new members. This is the first time we get to see some of the young guns, which is important to for the players themselves as well as the members. They put in a good game or two and they may begin playing round 1, they don't, we may not see them at all this year. Quite frankly I don't understand why the MFC is not doing more to have replays or streaming of Casey games so diehard fans can follow their progress of our new players and draftees. It is also a chance for us to see how the game plan comes together in a real game and to tweak it before the season begins. And lastly we have not had that many wins over the last 20-50 years that we can write off a chance to get another one up on the competition.

They put full match Casey games on the MFC last year. You can also stream the game live from the Casey radio.

Pretty simple really.

[DeeSpencer 25,477]

I'd limit some important and senior players to 1 of the first 2 games, probably splitting them between the 2 game half/half: Jones, Hogan, Vince, Viney, Gawn, Dunn, Garlett 

I'd probably play the next best 10 players for both games to get the core of the side really ready. And I doubt we will see Mitch King, Smith, Lumumba, Newton or Trengove in the NAB challenge. So that probably means there's another 10-20 who could be split between the 2 games to push their case. 

And then it comes together for a near best 22 for the 3rd game. 

[faultydet 7,594]

Cant believe what I am reading! Some of you dont give a schit about NAB Cup????

 

It means that footy is back. And I for one couldn't care less if its a glorified practice match, i will be glued to the TV all the same.

 

Ok, call me what you will, but my wife has just joined me from the Philippines, and, while I could have had Optus Internet/Pay TV installed, including a Philippines TV package that would have made her very happy, I instead told her that our best option was Telstra, as it is much more reliable for internet, hence making Facebook easily accessible. Its a fortunate coincidence that the Telstra/Foxtel combo also includes the Footy Channels. 

 

 

I really do love her............but jeeeez, its footy, or crappy Flip overacting TV. What is a man to do?

 

[Akum 2,660]

We need to get the important transitions right - transition from defence to attack, transition from contested ball to uncontested ball, and transition from midfield into F50. We need to practice them with our A-team players in combinations, and we need to practice them against an opposition that is hell-bent on stopping us doing what we want to do and will pressure us all the way. That can't be done in intraclub.

And yes, it will probably take most of the season to get it anywhere near right. But the practice matches are a chance to at least get some of the pieces into place.

[whatwhat say what 22,700]

I just want to see us hitting targets and not turning the ball over.

 

the defensive accountability has been put in place now, I hope, but what has been holding us back for years are our skills, which have been nothing short of appalling for over a decade.

[Whispering_Jack 29,805]

The issue I have with the NAB Challenge is that it lost something in the transition from the NAB Cup so that there was no longer a winning club at the end of the series. 

I don't recall the exact reason for the change, perhaps it was the commercial side involving television ratings and rights or was it the sports scientists suggesting the longer pre season was too harsh on the players? 

Anyhow, I would be more interested if it was still a competition with a result, something for the teams to strive for while at the same time allowing clubs to try out younger players and experiment with team placements, tactics and strategies (does that sound like tanking?).

[Bombay Airconditioning 6,359]

18 hours ago, Macca said:

We can practice all you've mentioned at training

I understand that the bottom team's supporters look at these games differently to how supporters of other teams do and ... then there's how the actual teams view these games. Most clubs treat the games with a good deal of contempt.

I look at it as if I was actually at the club ... so, simulated practice and other training methods are enough. There are some obvious benefits to having practice games but the risk of injury is a major factor also.

Our sport is hard to play in a soft manner ... unless both teams agree to that concept - even if that happened, what would be the point?

Of course, a player can get injured at practice but the risk of injury is much higher in match conditions. Weighing it all up, I don't see a need. However, the games will still be played regardless of my view.

The bit of your post that I've highlighted is interesting ... supporters of the Hawks would probably have a list of 20+ players that they wouldn't like to risk in these games.

Of course, I'm still going to watch our games but my main focus will be that none of our players sustain injuries. Many will view the games in the same way (when it comes to the crunch)

 

 

You make some good points and I find myself agreeing in parts. But my concern is we are practicing this attacking game plan at training and getting it wrong. There seems to be a thought process amongst some posters that come round 1 it will all fall into place. I hate excuses being thrown up for the players because I believe it's more a case of some of them are just not up to it, but if I was to try and defend them all I could come up with would be that during these full ground drills we've split into 2 groups spreading out our best 22 players. When our best 22 play together we might be able to make it work. Port a few years ago and the Bulldogs last year changed their game plan in one pre season. I watched a few Bulldogs games last year and at times their execution wasn't perfect but by moving the ball at breakneck speeds the opposition defence was put under a lot of pressure and as a result they managed to kick a lot of goals, sometimes out of nothing.

I also believe that the coaches haven't settled on a best 22 yet (injuries aside), I think their are still 3-4 positions up for grabs. Frost is top of my list, I think he's going to be massive for us, if he does play down back I can't see us playing 4 talls. Also I think there are higher expectation with Bugg and Kennedy than what we had with Newton and Michie. I'm really interested to see if JKH has taken his game to a new level or will he spend another year at Casey sorting out where he stands. Also who is running off half back with Salem, I would like to think it's up for grabs.

If we were nailing the new gameplan at training fair enough but we're not, if our skills were sharp across the ground but their not. Anyway we'll know soon enough.

Edited February 6, 2016 by Bombay Airconditioning

[Bombay Airconditioning 6,359]

17 hours ago, Baghdad Bob said:

Wiseblood said he also wanted to see how he went in the coaches box. 

BA if the players fail in the areas above is that Roos or Goodwin's responsibility.  And how do you assess the line coaches and the development team. I'm interested in people's views because I think it virtually impossible from the outside to attribute success and failures to specific coaches. 

I will also be judging him not only through the NAB challenge but the season as a whole with regards to how he handles Watts. I thought Watts was bloody quick over 20 metres, if he plays as a permanent fwd, with an improved midfield and having two other talls around him there's no reason he shouldn't be influencing more games.

[Ron Burgundy 8,584]

The half back line is the area that most interests me.

Will be interesting to see who is selected to generate the run off the half back line, and how we structure the rebounding play.

This has simply been a massive weakness for us for a very long time.

 

[beelzebub 23,313]

The weakness hasn't been (IMHO) the lack of run of such off the half back itsbeen there's nothing up ahead and it all goes to shlt. 

Hopefully the new attack plans have definedt thinking for options and give coherence to ball movement.

[FarNorthernD 5,861]

16 minutes ago, Ron Burgundy said:

 

 

 

16 minutes ago, Ron Burgundy said:

The half back line is the area that most interests me.

Will be interesting to see who is selected to generate the run off the half back line, and how we structure the rebounding play.

This has simply been a massive weakness for us for a very long time.

 

Agree Ron. I will also be as interested to see how they structure the half forwards and who puts their hand up to play. The training reports indicate that JKH has put on some size as has Hunt. Ben Kennedy, Harmes and ANB will all be in the running whilst Kent has apparently been one of the standouts of the summer

I must admit I fall into the "I give a sh't" category of supporters re the Nab series. I will be hugely interested to see some of the younger players perform, hopeful about a lack of injuries and curious to see a change in game plan.

Roll on Feb 27

 

Edited February 7, 2016 by fndee

[Bombay Airconditioning 6,359]

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[Satyriconhome 10,731]

All this angst over practice games, the EPL and NFL both have pre season practice games against real opposition, true some are from a lower level with the EPL, but all clubs still regard them as an important part of the preparation for the season

From a spectator point of view I'm with fndee, good to see how some of the younger players and those new to the club perform

[Bombay Airconditioning 6,359]

1 hour ago, beelzebub said:

The weakness hasn't been (IMHO) the lack of run of such off the half back itsbeen there's nothing up ahead and it all goes to shlt. 

Hopefully the new attack plans have definedt thinking for options and give coherence to ball movement.

[Bombay Airconditioning 6,359]

1 hour ago, beelzebub said:

The weakness hasn't been (IMHO) the lack of run of such off the half back itsbeen there's nothing up ahead and it all goes to shlt. 

Hopefully the new attack plans have definedt thinking for options and give coherence to ball movement.

I think that was the case but last year we had options up fwd as well as our midfield showed signs of improvement. I think half back is still an area of concern, Salem only played the 10 games last year, we need at least 3-4 options. Melksham makes two next year, Grimes is cooked and The Prince is merely keeping the seat warm. Waiting to see what happens with White, we need another mid who can kick the footy able to rotate through their if needed.

[beelzebub 23,313]

BA ..I can't say I ever saw a lot of coherent spread once we had it on the HB. If there was space..a corridor etc sometimes we made use of it. I did see a lot of hesitation and indecision and many a time we came under unnecessary pressure and turned it over. Needs to change

Edited February 7, 2016 by beelzebub

[Macca 16,923]

15 hours ago, Bombay Airconditioning said:

You make some good points and I find myself agreeing in parts. But my concern is we are practicing this attacking game plan at training and getting it wrong. There seems to be a thought process amongst some posters that come round 1 it will all fall into place. I hate excuses being thrown up for the players because I believe it's more a case of some of them are just not up to it, but if I was to try and defend them all I could come up with would be that during these full ground drills we've split into 2 groups spreading out our best 22 players. When our best 22 play together we might be able to make it work. Port a few years ago and the Bulldogs last year changed their game plan in one pre season. I watched a few Bulldogs games last year and at times their execution wasn't perfect but by moving the ball at breakneck speeds the opposition defence was put under a lot of pressure and as a result they managed to kick a lot of goals, sometimes out of nothing.

I also believe that the coaches haven't settled on a best 22 yet (injuries aside), I think their are still 3-4 positions up for grabs. Frost is top of my list, I think he's going to be massive for us, if he does play down back I can't see us playing 4 talls. Also I think there are higher expectation with Bugg and Kennedy than what we had with Newton and Michie. I'm really interested to see if JKH has taken his game to a new level or will he spend another year at Casey sorting out where he stands. Also who is running off half back with Salem, I would like to think it's up for grabs.

If we were nailing the new gameplan at training fair enough but we're not, if our skills were sharp across the ground but their not. Anyway we'll know soon enough.

I don't deny that the games don't have some benefit and we're always going to have them ... it's just that too many take the games too seriously (supporters) and will make absolute judgements based on the results of the games (or how we fare)

In other words, the clubs are using the games for specific purposes but an element of supporters are looking at the games in a completely different way (the winning bit is ultra important for many) Then there is the huge injury risk - the clubs generally won't risk their best assets so it ends up being B team vs B team. Every year, more & more of the best players play less & less.

Most of us remember how buoyant we felt after beating the Pies in the 2012 pre-season ... in fact, the following thread highlights that buoyant attitude - The Lean & Hungry Look ... Some of the over-the-top reactions to that win are hard to fathom considering how poor a season we had that year - me included (let's just say I learnt my final lesson!)

In the end, are these games worth it? Sure, they are going to somewhat satisfy a footy public's insatiable appetite for some footy but those same fans will complain bitterly if one of their prized assets goes down with a major injury. As for game plan practice, I believe that can be practised at training (a club can really only gauge how a gameplan works in the real stuff - in my opinion)

As I said earlier, it's hard to play footy in a soft manner - other sports tend to have unwritten rules with their practice games ... for instance, soccer practice games and "friendlies" are often virtually tackle free. 

What do we play? 3 games? From a practical viewpoint I'd rather see 2 games only (and I wouldn't risk Hogan, Salem, Vince, Jones, Tyson, Brayshaw, Viney, T-Mac and one or 2 others)

I've got my fingers crossed that we come through these games unscathed ... and that's the crux of my argument - I want to see our best 12-15 players all available for the 1st round of the season proper.

 

 

 

 

Edited February 7, 2016 by Macca

[Sir Why You Little 36,985]

14 hours ago, faultydet said:

Cant believe what I am reading! Some of you dont give a schit about NAB Cup????

 

It means that footy is back. And I for one couldn't care less if its a glorified practice match, i will be glued to the TV all the same.

 

Ok, call me what you will, but my wife has just joined me from the Philippines, and, while I could have had Optus Internet/Pay TV installed, including a Philippines TV package that would have made her very happy, I instead told her that our best option was Telstra, as it is much more reliable for internet, hence making Facebook easily accessible. Its a fortunate coincidence that the Telstra/Foxtel combo also includes the Footy Channels. 

 

 

I really do love her............but jeeeez, its footy, or crappy Flip overacting TV. What is a man to do?

 

Well done Fault

philippines TV is totally shocking after 5 minutes apart from "Wowowee" which i considered so bad it was a classic. 

The good lady will learn...

[Moonshadow 17,675]

Can't wait. Really want us to kick some rrrse and bring home the Ansett Cup this year. Been a long time since we've won the night premiership. Go Dees! 

[dee-luded 2,959]

On 6/2/2016 at 2:59 PM, Bombay Airconditioning said:

I don't think we have the luxury to treat the pre season with contempt, whilst the club has improved out of sight off the field as a footy team we have a long way to go. Reading Friday's training reports one poster describes the "full ground drill as having low trajectory passing, powerful, flat and accurate" whilst another wrote "skills difficult due to wind and there are numerous turnovers from missed kicks or errant handball. Monday's training report read "the match simulation stuff was very scrappy" but by all means let's rest our senior players for the first two games and bring them in for a bit of a run around for the last game. I don't think the players have taken ownership yet, I don't think some of them know what it even means. We are struging with the concept of quick ball movement, some players simply don't have the skill level required. I'd like to think players like Frost/Bugg/Kennedy go hard and push for round 1 selection, Watts was dropped for rd 23 last year, he needs to impress, if he is to play as a permanent fwd lets bloody bloody see it, whenever practicable his leads must honoured. With the loss of Melksham we need to trial some other options off half back.

 

agreed BbA, we have to grow our confidence On-field,,, & off field amongst the hourd's,  we need all the 'ervs we can muster watching our games.

[Demon_spurs 1,833]

7 hours ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Well done Fault

philippines TV is totally shocking after 5 minutes apart from "Wowowee" which i considered so bad it was a classic. 

The good lady will learn...

Does BT act in that??

 

[dee-luded 2,959]

22 hours ago, faultydet said:

Cant believe what I am reading! Some of you dont give a schit about NAB Cup????

 

It means that footy is back. And I for one couldn't care less if its a glorified practice match, i will be glued to the TV all the same.

 

Ok, call me what you will, but my wife has just joined me from the Philippines, and, while I could have had Optus Internet/Pay TV installed, including a Philippines TV package that would have made her very happy, I instead told her that our best option was Telstra, as it is much more reliable for internet, hence making Facebook easily accessible. Its a fortunate coincidence that the Telstra/Foxtel combo also includes the Footy Channels. 

 

 

I really do love her............but jeeeez, its footy, or crappy Flip overacting TV. What is a man to do?

 

your right IMO fd...  but it is a practice match series with bells & not much else... but this si a part of the problem,  the VFL/AFL has setup Sponsors/TV & started charging people decades back to get in to watch games that aren't serious about wining the points

 

Its reasons like this that undermines the integrity of the game in the eyes of the footy beholders...   so many reasons over the past 20 years to erode peoples faith in the game... it needs a lot of work to get back the lost integrity.. & stop pandering to the money people. before they kill the game off.

Edited February 7, 2016 by dee-luded

[beelzebub 23,313]

What is the NAB preseason 'comp' ?

Firstly it's not even a real competition. It barely a handful of games each in a semi round robin effort. Even this isn't a complete rendition. 

Even the AFL only limp wristedly suggest it as a 'challenge'

Make no mistake this is purely for the sponsors and to get footy back on the calendar.

As to the clubs ? It's a chance for a hitout against another club(s) . It's an opportunity to test segments of gameplans, to trial players and afford them a good stretch.

This is nothing more than contorted practice footy.

Any resemblance to the real thing is coincidental.

[Sir Why You Little 36,985]

Practise Games on Telly. That is what it is..

repeat after me...Practise Games on Telly...

important for us?

Yes. Gameplan Goodwin Membership ..

we must treat them as a serious hit out, but rotate the list Give the entire list a taste so the coaches have at least some background. 

Eddy McGuires idea that the NAB Cup winner be given an automatic path to September is just beyond comprehension!

"Oh we can tank for 22 Weeks and rest up"

The people running this game are not well. Edward should have to stand down for thinking up such rubbish...

[AzzKikA 2,371]

2 hours ago, beelzebub said:

What is the NAB preseason 'comp' ?

Firstly it's not even a real competition. It barely a handful of games each in a semi round robin effort. Even this isn't a complete rendition. 

Even the AFL only limp wristedly suggest it as a 'challenge'

Make no mistake this is purely for the sponsors and to get footy back on the calendar.

As to the clubs ? It's a chance for a hitout against another club(s) . It's an opportunity to test segments of gameplans, to trial players and afford them a good stretch.

This is nothing more than contorted practice footy.

Any resemblance to the real thing is coincidental.

It's not a "comp" any more, its a challenge lol, why did they even bother!

 

Edited February 8, 2016 by AzzKikA