And just when you thought we couldn't get any worse...

[Giles 181]

We are hopeless.

Roos has been on the phone a lot this afternoon. I seriously hope he's talking to a recruiter (for his next job).

[Giles 181]

We got pants'ed by a team that is no where near finals contention with a first year coach.

[TheoX 1,222]

We got pants'ed by a team that is no where near finals contention with a first year coach.

2nd but we're garbage still.

[DemonPremiers2015 10]

Was going to start a new thread about Paul Roos and the players but it can go here...

After years of putting up with cr@p no more - get stuffed Melbourne

After years of false promise, false dawns that’s it, no more

There is a reason why this club still has no respect from the football world. There is a reason why this club has been constantly pitied and laughed at by other clubs.

There is a reason why this club is near the bottom of membership numbers

There is a reason why we’re viewed as irrelevant by the general public.

Supporters and members have put up with gutless,, passionless, stupid incompetent players for too long. Not many are prepared to do the hard stuff when things are tough. When any side gets a run on we fall apart worse than a house of cards on a windy day.

Most of it is due to pisspoor leadership by senior players. The players, many who have been at the club 4 or 5 plus years or been in AFL for 5 plus years, still have no idea how to execute a game plan, how to run hard and present and still can’t hit a target or kick a goal under limited or no pressure.

I’m looking at

Garland

Lamumba

Howe

Dunn

Dawes

And the sad part is – Jones has reverted to bombing it long rather than thinking his way through things , although this could have been due to lack of support running to space by others

Also a special mention of Viney – I know his effort can’t be faulted but his disposal and especially goal kicking is getting worse than Jordie McKenzie on his worst day.

How is after 1-2 years of a rebuild St Kilda has more passionate and smarter players than Melbourne? How is at that after 8 years of crap we’re still no better than we were in 2007. What is wrong with the club?

I know there is hope with some of the players that have come on board in the last couple of years – Kent, Salem, Brayshaw, Hogan etc, but we’ve seen and heard of hope before and too many times before.

Paul Roos should also shoulder much of the blame. I know he’s viewed as untouchable around here, and he’s got his get of jail free transition to a new coach plan. Sounds great it theory at a strong club but we’re a long way from than. In addition, he has given the players an out – they’re thinking …well he’s not coaching after next year so what does it matter...

If he can’t get his message across why are the same players getting chosen? I would suggest that if his message is not being taken in, then either there should be a significant turnover of players, or Roos hand over to Goodwin in 2016.

I’m sure there will be some thinking fine we don’t need you or want you around if you can’t stick through think and thin, but fine, why would you want to put with years of consistent sh*t play

I have been a supporter and member my whole life but you know what Melbourne – f**k off

[Moonshadow 17,678]

The improvement under Roos is marginal compared to where we need to be. Saints showed once again their rebuild is further ahead of ours. Jake Niall is wrong.

[Demon Disciple 12,452]

Was going to start a new thread about Paul Roos and the players but it can go here...

After years of putting up with cr@p no more - get stuffed Melbourne

After years of false promise, false dawns that’s it, no more

There is a reason why this club still has no respect from the football world. There is a reason why this club has been constantly pitied and laughed at by other clubs.

There is a reason why this club is near the bottom of membership numbers

There is a reason why we’re viewed as irrelevant by the general public.

Supporters and members have put up with gutless,, passionless, stupid incompetent players for too long. Not many are prepared to do the hard stuff when things are tough. When any side gets a run on we fall apart worse than a house of cards on a windy day.

Most of it is due to pisspoor leadership by senior players. The players, many who have been at the club 4 or 5 plus years or been in AFL for 5 plus years, still have no idea how to execute a game plan, how to run hard and present and still can’t hit a target or kick a goal under limited or no pressure.

I’m looking at

Garland

Lamumba

Howe

Dunn

Dawes

And the sad part is – Jones has reverted to bombing it long rather than thinking his way through things , although this could have been due to lack of support running to space by others

Also a special mention of Viney – I know his effort can’t be faulted but his disposal and especially goal kicking is getting worse than Jordie McKenzie on his worst day.

How is after 1-2 years of a rebuild St Kilda has more passionate and smarter players than Melbourne? How is at that after 8 years of crap we’re still no better than we were in 2007. What is wrong with the club?

I know there is hope with some of the players that have come on board in the last couple of years – Kent, Salem, Brayshaw, Hogan etc, but we’ve seen and heard of hope before and too many times before.

Paul Roos should also shoulder much of the blame. I know he’s viewed as untouchable around here, and he’s got his get of jail free transition to a new coach plan. Sounds great it theory at a strong club but we’re a long way from than. In addition, he has given the players an out – they’re thinking …well he’s not coaching after next year so what does it matter...

If he can’t get his message across why are the same players getting chosen? I would suggest that if his message is not being taken in, then either there should be a significant turnover of players, or Roos hand over to Goodwin in 2016.

I’m sure there will be some thinking fine we don’t need you or want you around if you can’t stick through think and thin, but fine, why would you want to put with years of consistent sh*t play

I have been a supporter and member my whole life but you know what Melbourne – f**k off

Send this to the club

[Guest]

Was going to start a new thread about Paul Roos and the players but it can go here...

After years of putting up with cr@p no more - get stuffed Melbourne

After years of false promise, false dawns that’s it, no more

There is a reason why this club still has no respect from the football world. There is a reason why this club has been constantly pitied and laughed at by other clubs.

There is a reason why this club is near the bottom of membership numbers

There is a reason why we’re viewed as irrelevant by the general public.

Supporters and members have put up with gutless,, passionless, stupid incompetent players for too long. Not many are prepared to do the hard stuff when things are tough. When any side gets a run on we fall apart worse than a house of cards on a windy day.

Most of it is due to pisspoor leadership by senior players. The players, many who have been at the club 4 or 5 plus years or been in AFL for 5 plus years, still have no idea how to execute a game plan, how to run hard and present and still can’t hit a target or kick a goal under limited or no pressure.

I’m looking at

Garland

Lamumba

Howe

Dunn

Dawes

And the sad part is – Jones has reverted to bombing it long rather than thinking his way through things , although this could have been due to lack of support running to space by others

Also a special mention of Viney – I know his effort can’t be faulted but his disposal and especially goal kicking is getting worse than Jordie McKenzie on his worst day.

How is after 1-2 years of a rebuild St Kilda has more passionate and smarter players than Melbourne? How is at that after 8 years of crap we’re still no better than we were in 2007. What is wrong with the club?

I know there is hope with some of the players that have come on board in the last couple of years – Kent, Salem, Brayshaw, Hogan etc, but we’ve seen and heard of hope before and too many times before.

Paul Roos should also shoulder much of the blame. I know he’s viewed as untouchable around here, and he’s got his get of jail free transition to a new coach plan. Sounds great it theory at a strong club but we’re a long way from than. In addition, he has given the players an out – they’re thinking …well he’s not coaching after next year so what does it matter...

If he can’t get his message across why are the same players getting chosen? I would suggest that if his message is not being taken in, then either there should be a significant turnover of players, or Roos hand over to Goodwin in 2016.

I’m sure there will be some thinking fine we don’t need you or want you around if you can’t stick through think and thin, but fine, why would you want to put with years of consistent sh*t play

I have been a supporter and member my whole life but you know what Melbourne – f**k off

I like your username.

[praha 11,253]

We have improved under Roos, yet somehow with more talent, better recruiting, and a young core with far more potential, we allow sides that were once below us control the tempo and beat us.

St Kilda is ahead of us after one year of a rebuild with a 2nd-year coach.

We have blokes with 9, 10 years experience that simply go through the motions, collect a pay check, some B&F votes, and then tell the media, "We're disappointed with our effort". I'd name names, but I always get hounded here when I do.

It makes me sick that I trust guys with 10, 15 games of experience more than I do blokes with 150+ games experience.

How long until Brayshaw, VB, Billy start playing "through the motions" and simply show up to just show up? That's what defines this club: making up the numbers.

[DemonPremiers2015 10]

Send this to the club

Thanks I just have

[DemonPremiers2015 10]

I like your username.

I picked it 7 years ago when i thought we would at least be contesting in the finals by now. Looks a bit stupid now in light of what i just posted i know !

[dee-luded 2,959]

We have improved under Roos, yet somehow with more talent, better recruiting, and a young core with far more potential, we allow sides that were once below us control the tempo and beat us.

St Kilda is ahead of us after one year of a rebuild with a 2nd-year coach.

We have blokes with 9, 10 years experience that simply go through the motions, collect a pay check, some B&F votes, and then tell the media, "We're disappointed with our effort". I'd name names, but I always get hounded here when I do.

It makes me sick that I trust guys with 10, 15 games of experience more than I do blokes with 150+ games experience.

How long until Brayshaw, VB, Billy start playing "through the motions" and simply show up to just show up? That's what defines this club: making up the numbers.

the Saints are momentarily ahead of us, until they lose Riewoldt (33), moantana (32), Fisher (33), Ray (29), Gilbert (29)

Demons > http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/tp-melbourne-demons?year=2015&sby=15

Edited July 26, 2015 by dee-luded

[spirit of norm smith 16,617]

its all game plan

170 kicks 195 handballs

we CONTINUE to overuse and handball to a worse situation like a hot potato.

I would rather 220 kicks 150 handballs and contested possessions.

[Emerald 1,744]

I have a bad feeling this thread will be resurrected after we play Carlton.

[Dr. Gonzo 24,448]

Was going to start a new thread about Paul Roos and the players but it can go here...

After years of putting up with cr@p no more - get stuffed Melbourne

After years of false promise, false dawns that’s it, no more

There is a reason why this club still has no respect from the football world. There is a reason why this club has been constantly pitied and laughed at by other clubs.

There is a reason why this club is near the bottom of membership numbers

There is a reason why we’re viewed as irrelevant by the general public.

Supporters and members have put up with gutless,, passionless, stupid incompetent players for too long. Not many are prepared to do the hard stuff when things are tough. When any side gets a run on we fall apart worse than a house of cards on a windy day.

Most of it is due to pisspoor leadership by senior players. The players, many who have been at the club 4 or 5 plus years or been in AFL for 5 plus years, still have no idea how to execute a game plan, how to run hard and present and still can’t hit a target or kick a goal under limited or no pressure.

I’m looking at

Garland

Lamumba

Howe

Dunn

Dawes

And the sad part is – Jones has reverted to bombing it long rather than thinking his way through things , although this could have been due to lack of support running to space by others

Also a special mention of Viney – I know his effort can’t be faulted but his disposal and especially goal kicking is getting worse than Jordie McKenzie on his worst day.

How is after 1-2 years of a rebuild St Kilda has more passionate and smarter players than Melbourne? How is at that after 8 years of crap we’re still no better than we were in 2007. What is wrong with the club?

I know there is hope with some of the players that have come on board in the last couple of years – Kent, Salem, Brayshaw, Hogan etc, but we’ve seen and heard of hope before and too many times before.

Paul Roos should also shoulder much of the blame. I know he’s viewed as untouchable around here, and he’s got his get of jail free transition to a new coach plan. Sounds great it theory at a strong club but we’re a long way from than. In addition, he has given the players an out – they’re thinking …well he’s not coaching after next year so what does it matter...

If he can’t get his message across why are the same players getting chosen? I would suggest that if his message is not being taken in, then either there should be a significant turnover of players, or Roos hand over to Goodwin in 2016.

I’m sure there will be some thinking fine we don’t need you or want you around if you can’t stick through think and thin, but fine, why would you want to put with years of consistent sh*t play

I have been a supporter and member my whole life but you know what Melbourne – f**k off

Don't worry mate your not alone.

This club is driving lifelong members away. What hope do they have of recruiting new members?

[Pennant St Dee 13,403]

Was going to start a new thread about Paul Roos and the players but it can go here...

After years of putting up with cr@p no more - get stuffed Melbourne

After years of false promise, false dawns that’s it, no more

There is a reason why this club still has no respect from the football world. There is a reason why this club has been constantly pitied and laughed at by other clubs.

There is a reason why this club is near the bottom of membership numbers

There is a reason why we’re viewed as irrelevant by the general public.

Supporters and members have put up with gutless,, passionless, stupid incompetent players for too long. Not many are prepared to do the hard stuff when things are tough. When any side gets a run on we fall apart worse than a house of cards on a windy day.

Most of it is due to pisspoor leadership by senior players. The players, many who have been at the club 4 or 5 plus years or been in AFL for 5 plus years, still have no idea how to execute a game plan, how to run hard and present and still can’t hit a target or kick a goal under limited or no pressure.

I’m looking at

Garland

Lamumba

Howe

Dunn

Dawes

And the sad part is – Jones has reverted to bombing it long rather than thinking his way through things , although this could have been due to lack of support running to space by others

Also a special mention of Viney – I know his effort can’t be faulted but his disposal and especially goal kicking is getting worse than Jordie McKenzie on his worst day.

How is after 1-2 years of a rebuild St Kilda has more passionate and smarter players than Melbourne? How is at that after 8 years of crap we’re still no better than we were in 2007. What is wrong with the club?

I know there is hope with some of the players that have come on board in the last couple of years – Kent, Salem, Brayshaw, Hogan etc, but we’ve seen and heard of hope before and too many times before.

Paul Roos should also shoulder much of the blame. I know he’s viewed as untouchable around here, and he’s got his get of jail free transition to a new coach plan. Sounds great it theory at a strong club but we’re a long way from than. In addition, he has given the players an out – they’re thinking …well he’s not coaching after next year so what does it matter...

If he can’t get his message across why are the same players getting chosen? I would suggest that if his message is not being taken in, then either there should be a significant turnover of players, or Roos hand over to Goodwin in 2016.

I’m sure there will be some thinking fine we don’t need you or want you around if you can’t stick through think and thin, but fine, why would you want to put with years of consistent sh*t play

I have been a supporter and member my whole life but you know what Melbourne – f**k off

Agree we are a dead man walking as a club, slight improvement but not good enough from how far back we are coming.

I'm pulling 3 of the 4 memberships I have with this club, wife and kids follow other sides so I'll stick fat but this is just to much. Does this group not have enough collective pride to want to try desperately enough and win 2 in a row FFS,

Thank feck for local and junior footy because this club is killing my enthusiasm for the game

[grazman 7,512]

Did anyone see any improvement in five years under Barassi?

[dee-luded 2,959]

Did anyone see any improvement in five years under Barassi?

yes, but don't look for it on the scoreboard, as that is the last place the growth shows up.

when its ready to convert into wins, is the time the improvement is like the dogs proberbials

[Little Goffy 14,754]

St Kilda haven't even finished declining yet, so its a bit early to be comparing rebuilds.

That said... we are not tracking well. We are still four players short of a 22, over-relying on some 'stalwarts' who are not exceptional players, and the game style is simply not designed to win. Not unless you've got the likes of peak-career Goodes and Hall running around breaking games open.

We'll never get anywhere unless we set out to be a threat.

[praha 11,253]

the Saints are momentarily ahead of us, until they lose Riewoldt (33), moantana (32), Fisher (33), Ray (29), Gilbert (29)

Demons > http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/tp-melbourne-demons?year=2015&sby=15

Eh, are you basing that on the Melbourne Football Club Logic On How To Rebuild A List?

There's nothing to suggest that losing those players would make them worse. The Bulldogs have lost plenty of experience and have managed to lock themselves into the 8.

Their young players play confidently, with attack, poise and urgency. Ours do as well, to a degree, but our experienced players provide nothing in the way of genuine leadership and empowerment.

When those blokes leave the Saints, they'll have helped establish a core.

Don't look at Melbourne's breakdown after losing experience as an example to demonstrate how the Saints will buckle when they lose theirs. They play for one another and that culture will remain intact once those guys move on.

We have now lost three times in the past two years to a team that finished last in 2014, and has since leapfrogged us in 2015. They have six wins in 2015, 2 against us.

We're in no position to suggest we'll eventually leapfrog them, because history shows that every team that has been rebuilding alongside us, has leapfrogged us.

Edited July 26, 2015 by praha

[RalphiusMaximus 6,103]

So what exactly is wrong with our game at the moment? Let's start at the bounce.

While we have a pretty decent ruck who gets hitouts, we have no system in place to extract the ball once he's done his bit. There seems to be little understanding between Max and his mids, or between the mids. Nobody blocks to clear a passage for a designated clearance player. This is all made worse by the poor hands displayed by many of our mids who can't seem to pick up the ball on the first grab.

Having failed to break cleanly from the stoppage, we attempt to create space by running a criss-cross handball pattern behind the pack. This might work if the players releasing the ball followed up by blocking as they should, but they seem to think that their job is one hand-pass and then run like hell and hope someone else does the hard work. This of course results in more hand-passing as nobody has worked to create space for the player with the ball to spot up a decent kick. The issue is worsened by the fact that nobody is leading into space downfield, so there is no clear target to pass to from the stoppage.

On the odd occasion where we have managed to move the ball to half forward despite the above issues, we get to the forward 50 entry. In most teams, this would be a rapid movement involving a couple of well-timed blocks leading to a forward leading into space and an accurate kick in front of them, or if they are covered into the space behind them where a space has now been created. Sadly, Roos seems determined to rely on a high ball to the top of the goalsqaure where our three tall targets will all try to take a contested mark in the same space, or possibly cause a spillage for a crumbing player to score from. The reality is that our opponents have caught on to this tactic very quickly and set up with a spare man. Each defender simply blocks their man away from the ball and lets the spare take an uncontested mark. The predictable nature of our entries and the long flight time are ideal for this tactic, making it extremely simple for opposing defenders to accumulate marks more or less at will.

While the first of these points may be a matter at least partially the responsibility of the players, the majority of the blame lies squarely with the coaching. We have no system in the midfield and our forward line plan is unworkable. Roos has to address these issues.

[Lucifers Hero 40,524]

So what exactly is wrong with our game at the moment?

We had 52 midfield turnovers today!

Says it all, really

[Fitz Fitzpatrick 886]

So what exactly is wrong with our game at the moment? Let's start at the bounce.

While we have a pretty decent ruck who gets hitouts, we have no system in place to extract the ball once he's done his bit. There seems to be little understanding between Max and his mids, or between the mids. Nobody blocks to clear a passage for a designated clearance player. This is all made worse by the poor hands displayed by many of our mids who can't seem to pick up the ball on the first grab.

Having failed to break cleanly from the stoppage, we attempt to create space by running a criss-cross handball pattern behind the pack. This might work if the players releasing the ball followed up by blocking as they should, but they seem to think that their job is one hand-pass and then run like hell and hope someone else does the hard work. This of course results in more hand-passing as nobody has worked to create space for the player with the ball to spot up a decent kick. The issue is worsened by the fact that nobody is leading into space downfield, so there is no clear target to pass to from the stoppage.

On the odd occasion where we have managed to move the ball to half forward despite the above issues, we get to the forward 50 entry. In most teams, this would be a rapid movement involving a couple of well-timed blocks leading to a forward leading into space and an accurate kick in front of them, or if they are covered into the space behind them where a space has now been created. Sadly, Roos seems determined to rely on a high ball to the top of the goalsqaure where our three tall targets will all try to take a contested mark in the same space, or possibly cause a spillage for a crumbing player to score from. The reality is that our opponents have caught on to this tactic very quickly and set up with a spare man. Each defender simply blocks their man away from the ball and lets the spare take an uncontested mark. The predictable nature of our entries and the long flight time are ideal for this tactic, making it extremely simple for opposing defenders to accumulate marks more or less at will.

While the first of these points may be a matter at least partially the responsibility of the players, the majority of the blame lies squarely with the coaching. We have no system in the midfield and our forward line plan is unworkable. Roos has to address these issues.

Nice breakdown Ralphius

[dee-luded 2,959]

Eh, are you basing that on the Melbourne Football Club Logic On How To Rebuild A List?

There's nothing to suggest that losing those players would make them worse. The Bulldogs have lost plenty of experience and have managed to lock themselves into the 8.

Their young players play confidently, with attack, poise and urgency. Ours do as well, to a degree, but our experienced players provide nothing in the way of genuine leadership and empowerment.

When those blokes leave the Saints, they'll have helped establish a core.

Don't look at Melbourne's breakdown after losing experience as an example to demonstrate how the Saints will buckle when they lose theirs. They play for one another and that culture will remain intact once those guys move on.

We have now lost three times in the past two years to a team that finished last in 2014, and has since leapfrogged us in 2015. They have six wins in 2015, 2 against us.

We're in no position to suggest we'll eventually leapfrog them, because history shows that every team that has been rebuilding alongside us, has leapfrogged us.

basing on how valuable quality experienced players are to team confidence. Riewoldt (33), moantana (32), Fisher (33), Ray (29), Gilbert (29) all are very experienced players, & all at least have talent, some, much more than that.

when these players finish it will take them ages to replace.

not trying to drag the saints name down but to show that when you spend 20+ years allowing your culture to go down hill, it takes ages to get it right again, & the senior players who have entered as kids into a soft weak culture, are also affected by it.

so you have to rid the place of scarred infected players & rebuild including your leaders. on-field, & also off-field. & in the boardroom... if I had my way, furniture, carpets, everything would be changed.

Edited July 26, 2015 by dee-luded

[Redleg 41,952]

We had 52 midfield turnovers today!

Says it all, really

And that comes from a lack of skill and poor decision making, which we have been banging on about for years.

[Dr. Gonzo 24,448]

We had 52 midfield turnovers today!

Says it all, really

That is diabolical.