POST MATCH DISCUSSION - Round 10

[DeeSpencer 23,498]

Having a laugh at Toumpas criticism. Seriously. 2 silly errors. But a lot of end to end running and quite a few classy possessions. He aint Gus Brayshaw. Deal with it. He's more like our boy Jack Watts with 5 years less bad coaching and a fighting chance and he's taking it. Watts was also very good after that early soft marking effort. Lumumba had a terrible first quarter as well. But those 3 (combined with Vince, Jones, Garlett and Brayshaw) were probably the driving force of our slick ball movement that led to the 2nd and 3rd quarter fight backs.

But the errors:

- Fitzy tunnel ball

- Gawn turnover

- Lumumbabumba (times a few)

- Dunn kick out

- Watts soft dropped mark

- Howe fumble on the members wing when Garlett was off to the races

The elementary errors quite easily accounted for the game margin. Unfortunately a few of these were from senior players. Some are explained as products of a team that just hasn't trained and played in enough high pressure situations. Some are inexcusable.

Gawn won the ruck and Pendlebury, Swan, Crisp and Sidebottom were made to look second rate. Salem is a sorely missed down back, McDonald and Dunn had off days and our lack of reliable line breaker was again on show. The team will need to work more on how to combat a lose man which again is a lack of linebreaker in the middle/back half and just adding a few more half forwards who have the smarts for the position.

Petracca, Kent, JKH are 3 options for half forward. Salem back at half back. Frost as a genuine strong key defender.

We can't be satisfied with the result but we have to stay confident in the plan and in the talent on the list. Keep practising under pressure boys!

[old dee 22,983]

But again we did not win.

There is a recurring theme here.

[Norm Smith's Curse 2,078]

Toumpas's kicking was at times quite impressive. His decision making amd hand balling to team mates under more pressure than he as frustrating - but what people seemed to miss was how often his opponent was able to double team or have an impact on other contests while he was miles away or how his opponent can take an uncontested mark in the forward 50 while he was ten metres away doing nothing.

clearly some people forget about defensive aspects and accountability.

Losing vanders hurt the most and it was partly young gus that kept us in the game in the third quarter.

thought tom mac got owned by cloke but tough matchup.

thought Lumumba was having some sort of allergic reaction in the first half.

Massive games for vince, cross, gus and n jones.

[biggestred 4,377]

That 15 min opening patch in the 2nd was as good as anything in the comp.

Just gotta keep building

[leucopogon 1,475]

Dawes to do what exactly?

put himself in the shop window for the end of season clearout

[DeeSpencer 23,498]

Toumpas's kicking was at times quite impressive. His decision making amd hand balling to team mates under more pressure than he as frustrating - but what people seemed to miss was how often his opponent was able to double team or have an impact on other contests while he was miles away or how his opponent can take an uncontested mark in the forward 50 while he was ten metres away doing nothing.

clearly some people forget about defensive aspects and accountability.

A couple of the hot potato handballs were poor, but most were good. He plays on a wing, his opponent is going to get some ball the other way.

Sure he should've picked up Fasolo on the highlight shown on one of the TV shows but I significantly doubt Fasolo was his man. He needs more game awareness to make those decisions but the reality is he was likely working hard to get back and help the defenders and Fasolo was just as likely one of their men.

First year Toump couldn't mark, couldn't tackle, wouldn't win a contested ground ball and was completely lost.

He's now much stronger with contested ball and an acceptable tackler. Still can't really mark. But he is starting to think and work his way through scenarios and his work rate is a step above any other options we have in what's probably our weakest position.

He's far from perfect but I think it's very myopic not to see the positives in his game today and not to recognise signs of improvement. To suggest he be dropped is massively undervaluing what he can bring and massively overrating what little we have at Casey by way of hard running wingmen.

[Curry & Beer 5,444]

it's very annoying to continually sit through losses but we played excellent footy for most of the day today

I still count SEVEN missing from our best 22

50% of the time this season we have managed to play really good footy

when you consider we were one of the worst sides of all time two years ago it is pretty special

long way to go but we might finally be on the right track

[Outside fifty 967]

Almost choked on my cornflakes reading this. He is unaccountable, lazy, goes to ground a the drop of a hat.... made for the VFL unfortunately. Yes you are right though, Matt Jones certainly added nothing. I'd rather see a cameo from Stretch or ANB than M Jones running around in the seniors.

Obviously comprehension is not your strong point. I will simplify it for you. As I stated quite clearly M Jones was a bad choice for the Sub. As I stated we needed someone capable of taking the game on. Comprehend. Now repeat after me "I will read a post 5 times before I comment on it ensuring that I understand what the people are talking about".

[CBDees 3,162]

I was a big supporter of Watts, spoke to shifter Sheehan before we drafted him, said he was going to be a gun, unfortunately, I believe he is too soft and will amount to nothing as a Melbourne player, sorry to say so, be we will better off when he is traded. His game today was soft, I've had enough.

I thought Watts played well today apart from his dropped mark I n the goal square (but at least he was positioned there as a target). This was more than compensated by his good tackle in the goal square which resulted in a goal, but there are always so many Demonlanders who seem to have their eyes shut when he lays a tackle.

[jackaub 1,402]

What was the attendance?

66000

[beelzebub 22,331]

I thought Watts played well today apart from his dropped mark I n the goal square (but at least he was positioned there as a target). This was more than compensated by his good tackle in the goal square which resulted in a goal, but there are always so many Demonlanders who seem to have their eyes shut when he lays a tackle.

reality though is that yesterday he 'really' tackled. Previous games have been less effective . Needs to play like that all the time. Hope he does.

[John Crow Batty 8,307]

Overall, the game was a step in the right direction and hope it was not because it was QB week. I just hope we can build on it next game.

[jackaub 1,402]

that particular faux par and we know which one was a poor decision. He need to kick over the contest where we then had our player ball side, instead !!! it hard to just pull these type of examples out for discussion but it was avoidable. Hopefully he'll be coached out of these silly f ups as so much of his game is marvellous

Apart from Garlett we rarely have players goalside in the contests. Been like it for years smacks of poor coaching an players ball watching

[pitmaster 3,110]

The Collingwood supporters around me don't know the rules (calling "ball" on literally every single tackle) and the MFC supporters around me aren't up with the nuances of the modern game, with their "just kick it" calls and muttering whenever a chain of handballs started; even though they generally lead to something good.

I was surrounded by them yesterday and it's clear they don't know the rules and they cannot read or comprehend the spoken word because two weeks ago Wayne Campbell explained the tighter interpretation on ducking the head but not one of the Pie supporters near me got that right.

They howl though because sometimes it works and an umpire allows them to guide his decisions.

It's always hilarious when people start screaming "just kick it" when there are no options because they then get the chance to groan audibly when it happens and it lands with someone like Oxley. Still does happen a bit.

Also funny is the bagging Watts gets because he is one who does hold on to the ball when there are no options and he is waiting for someone to present. Meanwhile MFC fans scream stuff like "make a decision Watts" when he has already decided that there is nothing "on".

[sue 8,477]

But again we did not win.

There is a recurring theme here.

That's not the only recurring theme around here.

Yes we didn't win but as many posters who are not entirely addicted to seeing the glass half-empty have pointed out there were lots of promising things and we were not far off despite Cloak kicking straight for the first time in aeons.

[poita 3,706]

Our forward line and defence have stood up pretty well so far this year, but both were well beaten yesterday. In contrast our midfield, which is usually weak point, was pretty impressive for the most part.

We gave up some of the dumbest goals I have ever seen and our inability to defend Cloke was costly. He is too big to play from behind - you have to play the ball. Dunn & McDonald were both awfully out of sorts.

Not manning up Oxley was unforgiveable and Roos needs to some take responsibility for this, instead of dribbling about our forwards not making a contest. I can only assume our extra man was on ball, but he certainly didn't have anything like Oxley's impact.

Hogan looked a beaten man early, and Pedersen had little impact as well. Thankfully we got goals from the midfield this week.

Grimes and Tyson should have played, and I simply refuse to believe that the likes of Newton, Riley & M.Jones could be considered better options in any scenario. Hopefully this is rectified for Sunday.

I'm not sold on Gawn, mainly because he doesn't have a natural football brain. As soon as switches off for a half second you end up with the monumental skill errors such as his miskick on the HBF. I wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't back up this week, but hopefully he gets a chance against a team like Geelong without a recognised ruckman.

And finally, how long are we going to put up with Lumumba running around in circles like a show pony and delivering miskicks and hospital handpasses? The guy needs a spell at Casey with his mate Dawes.

Edited June 8, 2015 by poita

[mrtwister 650]

ah, something else to add to the dossier - Watts is not "alert"!

Well spotted Bikkie - those half-lidded eyes, dopey sluggish movement round the ball, snail-slow reflexes: dumb as a block of wood, of course! Sheesh, when will Roos get it?!!

Just watched a replay of his attempted mark. It was pretty pathetic.

Not saying he was the reason we lost or anything ridiculous like that. He played well overall and his aggression was great.

But it was still a pretty pathetic effort. I'm not sure who else on our team wouldn't have chest marked it.

[beelzebub 22,331]

That's not the only recurring theme around here.

Yes we didn't win but as many posters who are not entirely addicted to seeing the glass half-empty have pointed out there were lots of promising things and we were not far off despite Cloak kicking straight for the first time in aeons.

Sue..I think the point OD suggest is that we lost..and more more that we could have won. It was there for us to do so but we LOST it more than they WON it. We in effect handballed them 4 points

We wont win many games with that combination of cattle as took the ground monday

[Scipio 5,868]

There is absolutely no exception - we have to win next week.

[sue 8,477]

Sue..I think the point OD suggest is that we lost..and more more that we could have won. It was there for us to do so but we LOST it more than they WON it. We in effect handballed them 4 points

We wont win many games with that combination of cattle as took the ground monday

Agreed BB. But OD's relentless negativity gets to me at times. He just seems to hover over his keyboard waiting for a chance to say something negative. FCS we all know we lost!! but it was not 'as usual'.

[beelzebub 22,331]

Agreed BB. But OD's relentless negativity gets to me at times. He just seems to hover over his keyboard waiting for a chance to say something negative. FCS we all know we lost!! but it was not 'as usual'.

it was an 'unusual " loss ?

[What 18,810]

I m actually encouraged by Toumpas recent performances. He came into the side during a tough streak of games and played against some of the elite teams of the comp.

In the game vs the Doggies he was very good. Hes starting to find the footy at AFL level, which he struggled to do last season.

Hes going to make it.

[rjay 24,046]

Our forward line and defence have stood up pretty well so far this year, but both were well beaten yesterday. In contrast our midfield, which is usually weak point, was pretty impressive for the most part.

We gave up some of the dumbest goals I have ever seen and our inability to defend Cloke was costly. He is too big to play from behind - you have to play the ball. Dunn & McDonald were both awfully out of sorts.

Not manning up Oxley was unforgiveable and Roos needs to some take responsibility for this, instead of dribbling about our forwards not making a contest. I can only assume our extra man was on ball, but he certainly didn't have anything like Oxley's impact.

Hogan looked a beaten man early, and Pedersen had little impact as well. Thankfully we got goals from the midfield this week.

Grimes and Tyson should have played, and I simply refuse to believe that the likes of Newton, Riley & M.Jones could be considered better options in any scenario. Hopefully this is rectified for Sunday.

I'm not sold on Gawn, mainly because he doesn't have a natural football brain. As soon as switches off for a half second you end up with the monumental skill errors such as his miskick on the HBF. I wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't back up this week, but hopefully he gets a chance against a team like Geelong without a recognised ruckman.

And finally, how long are we going to put up with Lumumba running around in circles like a show pony and delivering miskicks and hospital handpasses? The guy needs a spell at Casey with his mate Dawes.

I suspect the problem has more to do with cattle. We did the job in the midfield but then needed to drop Cross back in front of Cloke at times.

The backline needed help; I guess the question is do we put someone on Oxley and hope our defenders can control Cloke which they weren't...or do we hold Cloke which we at least stopped the flood of goals and hope our forwards can provide a better contest.

Nothing is as simple as just moving someone onto Oxley...

[sue 8,477]

it was an 'unusual " loss ?

It was. For all the reasons many posters have mentioned. For a start, when we had a large number of goals kicked against us, we didn't fold but actually regained the lead.

ed: didn't regain it since we never had it before then.

Edited June 9, 2015 by sue

[Nasher 33,166]

Agreed BB. But OD's relentless negativity gets to me at times. He just seems to hover over his keyboard waiting for a chance to say something negative. FCS we all know we lost!! but it was not 'as usual'.

I agree sue. I walked away from the game disappointed that I didn't the shot of euphoria I'd have gotten from a win, but otherwise I thought it was an entertaining game.

I really think that Eeyore pic someone posted the other day really does suit old dee.