THE SAGA CONTINUES - WADA APPEALS

[Mazer Rackham 14,971]

Ah, yes Old Dee, but the question is: is it a wet or a dry ticket?

Fox Sports last night added to their report that Essendon had 'co-operated' with the investigation and 'agreed to' the charges. I presume the EFC believes it's going to be a wet one. They may be wrong (hopefully they are) but so far you're ahead of the field ... again.

What's the bet they "co-operated" and "agreed" the same way they did when they "co-operated" with the joint AFL/ASADA investigation and then "agreed" to the AFL sanctions? As in, negotiated them down.

Problem for Essendon is if ANYTHING sticks from the WS investigation, even a $100 fine will set off all the litigation lawyers in Victoria. Article in yesterday's paper with one of them quoted as saying (paraphrasing), as soon as EFC are officially guilty of something/anything, it's open slather as the case has virtually already been run for them.

[jnrmac 20,276]

It's an absolute disgrace that Essendon is unwilling to provide confirmation to its players as to what they were injected with. I understand the need for Essendon to try and keep this information secret due to the charges they are facing, but surely it is a player's right to know what the club has put in their body. If they have learned anything at all from this saga, surely it is that player safety needs to come before the club. Unfortunately, it seems that isn't the case.

It's worse than that! Hunter asked what he had been given and they said "what do you think you have been given?"

Its a farce.

[Mazer Rackham 14,971]

It's worse than that! Hunter asked what he had been given and they said "what do you think you have been given?"

Its a farce.

Translation: "tell us what you think you were given, and if it's harmless then we'll agree that we gave it to you. Otherwise we'll lose the paperwork."

[Good Times Grimes 2,396]

It's worse than that! Hunter asked what he had been given and they said "what do you think you have been given?"

Its a farce.

It's absolutely insane. It's at the point where it's evident that they don't even have any human decency.

[Mazer Rackham 14,971]

It's absolutely insane. It's at the point where it's evident that they don't even have any human decency.

With Skeletor in charge they have to imagine how actual humans would feel.

[La Dee-vina Comedia 17,016]

WorkSafe aren't the fastest operators are they.

nah, a deal has been worked out (as usual)

essendrugs were too quick to publicly accept work cover's charges\

go quietly and we'll minimise the hurt

I'd suggest that Worksafe and Essendon were in negotiations for quite some time. Of course I don't know what actually happened, but I suspect Worksafe are happy to have Essendon agreeing to the charges because it means a guaranteed "win" for Worksafe whereas a contested matter on perhaps more complex matters might have seen the whole lot lost; for Essendon, a negotiated settlement means they don't risk losing on those more complex matters which would result in a harsher penalty. I suspect on the evidence available to Worksafe it is probably the best outcome under the circumstances.

Apart from anything else, Worksafe has to manage its budget to ensure it monitors all Victorian workplaces for employee safety. Consuming too many dollars here means other (meaning non-AFL) matters may fly under the radar when they shouldn't be allowed to.

[Dees2014 2,377]

It's absolutely insane. It's at the point where it's evident that they don't even have any human decency.

Can I suggest CAS will crash through all this. WS was always going to be a bit of a farce with Andrews breathing down their neck, with half of the cabinet on his side, though I notice the latest from the Victorian Trades Hall is pretty anti Essendon. There is clearly a struggle going on in the Victorian Labor Party on this matter.

CAS, even though it is being held in Australia, will be above all this domestic political nonsense and be able to look at the whole issue in a considered dispassionate way, and that folks is what the AFL and Essendon are so worried about. If you do approach it in that way,you can only come down to the conclusion that the Hird regime cynically and deliberately broke many WADA rules in order to gain unfair advantage.

They deserve to go down, and they will.

Edited November 10, 2015 by Dees2014

[old dee 24,003]

Ah, yes Old Dee, but the question is: is it a wet or a dry ticket?

Fox Sports last night added to their report that Essendon had 'co-operated' with the investigation and 'agreed to' the charges. I presume the EFC believes it's going to be a wet one. They may be wrong (hopefully they are) but so far you're ahead of the field ... again.

Again I will say it just in case Someone thinks I want a low sentence.

I pray they get hit hard.

However I just don't see it happening.

As to wet or dry?

Pretty much the same wet or dry a tram ticket does not cause much pain.

[sue 9,195]

I think there is a smallish probability that OD's tram ticket, wet or dry, will be stuck on a baseball bat. We'll see.

[old dee 24,003]

I think there is a smallish probability that OD's tram ticket, wet or dry, will be stuck on a baseball bat. We'll see.

I hope you are correct sue

[daisycutter 29,892]

I'd suggest that Worksafe and Essendon were in negotiations for quite some time. Of course I don't know what actually happened, but I suspect Worksafe are happy to have Essendon agreeing to the charges because it means a guaranteed "win" for Worksafe whereas a contested matter on perhaps more complex matters might have seen the whole lot lost; for Essendon, a negotiated settlement means they don't risk losing on those more complex matters which would result in a harsher penalty. I suspect on the evidence available to Worksafe it is probably the best outcome under the circumstances.

Apart from anything else, Worksafe has to manage its budget to ensure it monitors all Victorian workplaces for employee safety. Consuming too many dollars here means other (meaning non-AFL) matters may fly under the radar when they shouldn't be allowed to.

very pragmatic of you ldvc.....and i hope not apologetic

it's a slippery slope when the top end of town get together in damage minimisation for the "greater good"

but....if you're happy with it.........

[La Dee-vina Comedia 17,016]

very pragmatic of you ldvc.....and i hope not apologetic

it's a slippery slope when the top end of town get together in damage minimisation for the "greater good"

but....if you're happy with it.........

Just to be clear, I was not suggesting any influence from the top end of town. Worksafe does not have an unlimited budget, so has to spend its resources as wisely as possible. I expect they probably use the Office of Public Prosecution guidelines when deciding when and what to prosecute. For those of you with an interest, you can find those guidelines, called "The Prosecutorial Discretion" here). In short, not everything that breaches a law gets prosecuted. And don't confuse "public interest" with "public curiosity", although my personal view is that there is a significant public interest ground in this particular matter.

[Willmoy1947 4,198]

Hope they de bug any buildings where CAS are going to hold this case. One does get the feeling that this is going to be a pretty big deal.

Just heard that Russia is going to have to give back some Olympic Medals probably to Yanks and whoever because of drug usage so things are quite buoyant.

Lets also hope the bloody rabble media (they know who they are) have access to nothing and nothing is leaked.

Give the AFL nothing. That way they will know more than before. Disband the AFLPA and set up a proper non compulsory Union.

[dpositive 1,819]

Hope they de bug any buildings where CAS are going to hold this case. One does get the feeling that this is going to be a pretty big deal.

Just heard that Russia is going to have to give back some Olympic Medals probably to Yanks and whoever because of drug usage so things are quite buoyant.

Lets also hope the bloody rabble media (they know who they are) have access to nothing and nothing is leaked.

Give the AFL nothing. That way they will know more than before. Disband the AFLPA and set up a proper non compulsory Union.

. In short, not everything that breaches a law gets prosecuted. And don't confuse "public interest" with "public curiosity", although my personal view is that there is a significant public interest ground in this particular matter.

I think the "public interest" has just been intensified.

Russia FFS all athletes banned and international attention on individual,team, and code understanding of a drug regime.

How does anyone think EFC with a case before the CAS can be ignored.

I dont think the cat [censored] on the papers and they were all thrown out is going to wash with this charge.

WADAand CAS cannot allow EFC to get away with there is no evidence cos I reckon we know what Russia will do if they do.

[FireInTheBennelly 4,101]

Surely the official Essendon line of 'We have no idea what the players were injected with' is the smoking gun for WS, and makes the whole thing an open and shut case? I would have thought it's a free shot for WS and there'd be absolutely no need for negotiating a penalty, go hard, spend whatever you need to maximise the penalty. After all, it's your duty to look out for any affected employees, isn't it?

Also, considering this involves 34 players, surely there are 34 charges of any infringement. You kill 34 people aren't you charged with 34 murders? Surely the penalty has to be applied 34 times?

[biggestred 5,241]

http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2015-11-10/world-anti-doping-agency-recommends-banning-of-russian-athletes/6925706

This all seems incredibly familiar.

Of course when its russia they obviously did it but we in australia dont do that sort of thing...

[beelzebub 23,390]

http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2015-11-10/world-anti-doping-agency-recommends-banning-of-russian-athletes/6925706

This all seems incredibly familiar.

Of course when its russia they obviously did it but we in australia dont do that sort of thing...

its just we dont keep any records !!!

[Melbman2 226]

Can I suggest CAS will crash through all this. WS was always going to be a bit of a farce with Andrews breathing down their neck, with half of the cabinet on his side, though I notice the latest from the Victorian Trades Hall is pretty anti Essendon. There is clearly a struggle going on in the Victorian Labor Party on this matter.

CAS, even though it is being held in Australia, will be above all this domestic political nonsense and be able to look at the whole issue in a considered dispassionate way, and that folks is what the AFL and Essendon are so worried about. If you do approach it in that way,you can only come down to the conclusion that the Hird regime cynically and deliberately broke many WADA rules in order to gain unfair advantage.

They deserve to go down, and they will.

You raise an interesting point, the struggle between political factions.

I was interested in the timing of this new announcement yesterday. I guess if they wrap it up prior to the CAS "stuff" then unfortunately it is all over in case CAS makes Essendon look worse. Work Safe would find it harder to "wet tram ticket" Essendon under those conditions hence settle it now.

[Willmoy1947 4,198]

Phew :wub: not my fault the site went down....

[The Reverend 1,736]

Phew :wub: not my fault the site went down....

No, it was Jack Watts's fault!

[Dees2014 2,377]

It will be very interesting to see how the IAAF and WADA responds to the damaging evidence in Russia that vast amounts of doping evidence was destroyed by the athletics establishment to hide doping. Precedence any one? Sebastian Coe, President of the IAAF, has given the Russian Athletics Federation until Friday to state how they are going to clean it up, or they will be banned from the RIO Olympics.

Fits nicely into the opening of the Essendon CAS drugs case next week. "Coincidences" seem to be converging nicely!

Sent from my iPad

[Lucifers Hero 40,520]

An update from Roy Masters. : http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/russian-doping-scandal-wont-help-essendon-in-wada-appeal-20151111-gkw4u3.html#ixzz3rAnGo4U5

Basically says that WADA will push for a guilty verdict. But, tellingly also says: “While a guilty verdict will satisfy WADA and ASADA, there is widespread support for a punishment that allows the Essendon players to start the 2016 season free of any sanctions”.

Masters implies WADA will support backdated sanctions.

I suppose it happens every day where a guilty verdict in a court results in light or suspend sentences.

Not surprised at all. Its been on the cards for a long, long time.

Looks like we will know in mid Jan.

34 pieces of wet lettuce needed, 'old dee’!

Edited November 11, 2015 by Lucifer's Hero

[M_9 2,124]

From Muggs on BF:

"Bruce is at it again
http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1snr25c

Asking members to write a letter to Tanner asking EFC plead not guilty and bring the AFL in as co-defendants.

Not sure he has realised this is more akin to a criminal offence, not civil in that they not being sued rather being prosecuted. Even if the AFL could be prosecuted does not change the fact the fact that EFC is still guilty..."

[biggestred 5,241]

No suspensions would be a [censored] joke.

[Dees2014 2,377]

An update from Roy Masters. : http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/russian-doping-scandal-wont-help-essendon-in-wada-appeal-20151111-gkw4u3.html#ixzz3rAnGo4U5

Basically says that WADA will push for a guilty verdict. But, tellingly also says: While a guilty verdict will satisfy WADA and ASADA, there is widespread support for a punishment that allows the Essendon players to start the 2016 season free of any sanctions.

Masters implies WADA will support backdated sanctions.

I suppose it happens every day where a guilty verdict in a court results in light or suspend sentences.

Not surprised at all. Its been on the cards for a long, long time.

Looks like we will know in mid Jan.

34 pieces of wet lettuce needed, 'old dee!

Yes Masters has been on that tack for some time - it is old news. He obviously has a source probably inside the AFL I would suggest, maybe through his wife Elaine Canty who has deep connections into the AFL, and would be swallowing Elizabeth Lukin's line on this, and she is the best "spin doctor" in the business

Master's track record in predicting WADA/CAS has not been good. For instance he completely missed the WADA appeal direct to CAS. He had been saying it was all over after the AFL Tribunal which was very much the AFL/EFC line.

I suggest this will be the same. WADA will only be very very reluctantly be doing deals on this, and Old Dee's fantasy about wet tram tickets will remain just that - fantasy!

The recent Russian revelations about destroying evidence will only harden CAS's resolve on this.. In my view they see the criminality by Essendon and Hird after the doping as far more serious than the doping itself, particularly destruction of evidence.

Edited November 11, 2015 by Dees2014