THE SAGA CONTINUES - WADA APPEALS

[Wadda We Sing 10,685]

You forgot to mention Australia's newly appointed Chief Scientist.

I didnt know Picket Fence went to Mnt Scopus!!?

[jnrmac 19,399]

Haven't read it but just seems like they have been terribly advised from day 1. They have taken little ownership of this themselves.

Or little ownsership of what went into their bodies....

They deserve everything they get. Not sure why people have any sympathy for them.

[daisycutter 28,709]

Very discrete Nut, who would that be, owner of a large shopping centre in Chadstone? Very well disguised. not even ASIO could work that out.

My school never had millionaire parents let alone billionaire parents. In fact the rich kids distinguished themselves by having scalextric car sets, only one in my grade. Oh yes, one kid's parents had a swimming pool.

there could be a novel in this, ernest

[Whispering_Jack 28,096]

Two more Bombers delisted tonight, Alex Browne and Elliott Kavanagh. I wonder how many of the 34 are left?

[daisycutter 28,709]

enough

[Lucifers Hero 37,407]

Two more Bombers delisted tonight, Alex Browne and Elliott Kavanagh. I wonder how many of the 34 are left?

11 are left: David Myers 2 Tom Bellchambers 10 Ben Howlett 10 Travis Colyer 11 Jobe Watson 12 Michael Hurley 19 Heath Hocking 20 Michael Hibberd 21 Dyson Heppell 22 Cale Hooker 22 Brent Stanton 22

Shows # of games in 2015.

They will still be able to field a team if players get CAS bans albeit without some of there best players.

At other clubs:

Paddy Ryder Angus Monfries Stewart Crameri Jake Melksham Jake Carlisle

[Whispering_Jack 28,096]

I find it hard to believe that an ex Scopus student is on this site. Would have thought they were way too smart. I thought they were all brain surgeons, rabbis, successful businessmen or checking out their next investment property.

Or lawyers.

[Whispering_Jack 28,096]

You forgot to mention Australia's newly appointed Chief Scientist.

His nephew is still a moderator on this site.

[M_9 1,798]

"Holding "grave concerns" about their client, the legal team representing a 2012 Essendon player will ask the Supreme Court to order the AFL and the club to hand over documents about the club's 2012 supplements program.

Hal Hunter, an Essendon rookie list player from 2012 to '13, will be asking Justice Nemeer Mukhtar to order that the AFL and Essendon hand over "relevant" documents on Thursday before deciding how to advance their legal case, according to one of Hunter's lawyers. ..."

Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/exdons-player-seeks-answers-on-2012-program-in-court-20151028-gkl5q3.html#ixzz3prApVUsO

Doubt that non-subscribers can get past the paywall.

[Lucifers Hero 37,407]

Looks like the lawyers are dragging the AFL into it: "One of the Hunter camp arguments is that the AFL and Essendon have an obligation to provide a safe workplace for players. Hunter's legal team says the action is against Essendon and the AFL on the grounds that the player's contract is tripartite – involving not only the player and the club but the league."

23 of the 34 are no longer at Ess...if Hal Hunter succeeds there will be a lot of players come out of the woodwork and follow his path. The saga is set to drag on long after CAS case is decided and any penalties served.

A most unfortunate part of this development is that by dragging the AFL into it a lot of good money is going down the drain to 'defend' the case(s)...money that should be going into the game and AFL clubs. Its just wrong that so much AFL time and money will be wasted because one rogue club went feral.

Edited October 28, 2015 by Lucifer's Hero

[jnrmac 19,399]

Looks like the lawyers are dragging the AFL into it: "One of the Hunter camp arguments is that the AFL and Essendon have an obligation to provide a safe workplace for players. Hunter's legal team says the action is against Essendon and the AFL on the grounds that the player's contract is tripartite – involving not only the player and the club but the league."

23 of the 34 are no longer at Ess...if Hal Hunter succeeds there will be a lot of players come out of the woodwork and follow his path. The saga is set to drag on long after CAS case is decided and any penalties served.

A most unfortunate part of this development is that by dragging the AFL into it a lot of good money is going down the drain to 'defend' the case(s)...money that should be going into the game and AFL clubs. Its just wrong that so much AFL time and money will be wasted because one rogue club went feral.

The AFL are technically a signatory to player contracts but the club is the one that employs the players etc. It is standard to include everyone in a writ like this. The AFL would rely on its procedures and policies and the fatc that it has club Directors and staff that are responsible for such things.

[Cards13 9,117]

Don't hold the AFL to some higher standard here. At the end of the day the AFL is in the business of making money, rogue club or no.

They may have screwed the pooch on this well before dropping notes in class to Essendon.

[biggestred 4,401]

23/34 no longer there is exactly why the club must be punished in addition to the players, if guilty

[Sir Why You Little 35,170]

The new Drug policy is yet another joke

The AFL don't want any players banned

The Broadcast Rights are too high now

KB was spot on this morning & i don't often say that!!!

[KingDingAling 3,656]

The new Drug policy is yet another joke

The AFL don't want any players banned

The Broadcast Rights are too high now

KB was spot on this morning & i don't often say that!!!

I agree. I think its because the AFL is now a business, and the game of football is just a part of that business.

In KB's day it was football first, now it is football second, perhaps even third.

But I think, maybe now its too far gone. I don't know where the game will end up, but I do think the NZ government were onto something a few years ago when they labelled the AFL an entertainment spectacle - as opposed to a sport (which occurred after a St Kilda game in NZ).

[rjay 24,099]

Looks like the lawyers are dragging the AFL into it: "One of the Hunter camp arguments is that the AFL and Essendon have an obligation to provide a safe workplace for players. Hunter's legal team says the action is against Essendon and the AFL on the grounds that the player's contract is tripartite – involving not only the player and the club but the league."

23 of the 34 are no longer at Ess...if Hal Hunter succeeds there will be a lot of players come out of the woodwork and follow his path. The saga is set to drag on long after CAS case is decided and any penalties served.

A most unfortunate part of this development is that by dragging the AFL into it a lot of good money is going down the drain to 'defend' the case(s)...money that should be going into the game and AFL clubs. Its just wrong that so much AFL time and money will be wasted because one rogue club went feral.

The AFL put their head in the sand. They knew what was going on at EFC, they gave them an 'old dee' wet tram ticket warning but didn't bother pushing the issue.

The AFL is also at fault here and need to pay the price, unfortunately as always many people will suffer from the actions of a few.

[KingDingAling 3,656]

The AFL put their head in the sand. They knew what was going on at EFC, they gave them an 'old dee' wet tram ticket warning but didn't bother pushing the issue.

The AFL is also at fault here and need to pay the price, unfortunately as always many people will suffer from the actions of a few.

Or perhaps turned a blind eye. It could've caught the AFL by surprise, but I doubt it. If anything, I think the saga highlighted the AFL's determination to keep things 'in house'. They want to micro-manage everything, the WADA situation just exposed them. Now everyone knows what time it is, people ask questions, do the AFL hide things like '3 strikes', etc. Because we wouldn't know if they did, I think it begs the question, should the AFL be regulated by an independent party? Which goes back to your second question of accountability.

[Lucifers Hero 37,407]

Agree with the comments that the AFL has legal and moral standing in the player claims that may eventuate.

It just annoys me that so much AFL money and time will go into those when it should be used better elsewhere.

Let Essendon pay for the AFL lawyers!!

Then AFL money and time can go where they belong!

[Whispering_Jack 28,096]

I can now answer my own question about the number of Bombers left at the club and still facing possible sanctions as a result of next month's CAS hearing - Essendon home to just 13 of original 34 players facing WADA appeal ahead of hearing

ESSENDON is now home to just 13 of the 34 players facing next months World Anti-Doping Agency appeal at the Court of Arbitration for Sport.

The number of affected Bombers players has been significantly reduced because of retirements, trades and delistings this off-season.

So it has come to pass that an adverse decision at the final hearing of the charges will not be such a disaster for the Bombers' playing list and the club will now certainly be able to soldier on but paradoxically, Essendon, through its lack of transparency and its determination to stave off a full and open hearing into what happened at the club in 2012 has caused much of the damage. I think the AFL is also accountable for some of this when, in its haste to avoid the embarrassment of having Essendon in the 2013 finals dealt with that club inappropriately and before the investigation was finalised. Yes, and there were people at ASADA who also dropped the ball.

This should all have been long over - the victims of the delay are the club and the players ... and of course Hird himself is gone as coach but should face further repercussions before this long and sorry saga is done and dusted for good.

[Cards13 9,117]

Agree with the comments that the AFL has legal and moral standing in the player claims that may eventuate.

It just annoys me that so much AFL money and time will go into those when it should be used better elsewhere.

Let Essendon pay for the AFL lawyers!!

Then AFL money and time can go where they belong!

Louie I clearly remember both AD and someone else from the AFL coming out before the Dons saga started being highly concerned about the input of 'sports scientists' and there decision stumping club doctors. It was raised at an AFL medico's forum if I also recall. They don't appear to have acted until after the horse has bolted with a sly phone call to Ess just prior to the blackest day in sport.

[Dees2014 2,377]

That St Kilda and Melbourne have pursued the two Jakes so strongly suggests to me that there might be a belief, at least within those two clubs, that the players will be found "not guilty" (I know that's not the actual finding, but I'm sure everyone knows what I mean). I admit its conjecture, but if the clubs had good reason to believe the Essendon players will not be punished, I would have thought not trying to procure Essendon talent would be a dereliction of duty.

I think it is more a case of all those associated with Hird and Essendon over 2011 to 2014 are delusional (including Goodwin). Apparently the MFC had "very frank" discussions with Goodwin about the drug issues before they hired him in 2014. Just how realistically frank they possibly could have been when all of Essendon were not on planet earth on these issues at that time, and no-one really knew how it was going to play out, which is so even today. Personally, I believe associating the MFC with Essendon from that period in any way whatsoever, is a dereliction of duty on behalf of our club. And now, in late 2015, our star recruit, strongly pushed by Goodwin apparently, was right in the thick of Essendon circa 2012.

It may not matter. Things are moving on the legal front where action in the civil courts may overwhelm whatever CAS and WADA do anyway, as can be seen from this article in today's Age:

"Holding grave concerns about their client, the legal team representing a 2012 Essendon player will ask the Supreme Court to order the AFL and the club to hand over documents about the clubs 2012 supplements program. Hal Hunter, an Essendon rookie list player from 2012 to 13, will be asking Justice Nemeer Mukhtar to order that the AFL and Essendon hand over relevant documents on Thursday before deciding how to advance their legal case, according to one of Hunters lawyers.

Patrick Keyzer, a professor of law at La Trobe University and Hunters lawyer, said: The AFL and Essendon have declined repeated requests to give us documents that are relevant to the health and safety of our client [Hunter]. Keyzer said Hunter, now 23, had the misfortune to be a rookie at Essendon during the notorious supplements scandal. We want those documents because we are gravely concerned about the health and wellbeing of our client. Keyzer added that that the AFL and the club have a clear duty of disclosure so that our client can work out whether he has a course of action and if so, how to frame it.

It is understood that, depending on what happens in court and in any discussions between the parties , Hunter is considering suing the club and the AFL for breach of contract, negligence and even assault . One of the Hunter camp arguments is that the AFL and Essendon have an obligation to provide a safe workplace for players . Hunter's legal team says the action is against Essendon and the AFL on the grounds that the players contract is tripartite involving not only the player and the club but the league. Keyzer said while Essendon had provided some documents, there are some categories of documents that have not been disclosed . Hunter wanted the court to order the league and the club to produce documents or disclose documents that we believe they ought to have .

A lack of records from the 2012 injection program was criticised by the AFL tribunal when it cleared the 34 current and former Essendon players at the March hearing on doping charges a case that is being heard on appeal in the Court of Arbitration for Sport. Hunter was not issued with a show-cause notice and his case is not connected to the WADA hearing. Hunter will be represented in court by Keyzer, a barrister who is also head of the La Trobe Law School and Arthur Moses, SC. The AFL and Essendon are expected to have their own lawyers."

Copyright © 2015 The Age

As we have predicted many times on here before, it is only a matter of time before the full consequences of the Hird regime are played out in the Courts of the land, irrespective of what the AFL, CAS, WADA, ESSENDON, Little or Hird might try to do about it. This is just the beginning. Stand by for an orgy of litigation on these subjects over the next couple of years.

And as always, may the Law take its course!

Edited October 29, 2015 by Dees2014

[La Dee-vina Comedia 16,534]

Looks like the lawyers are dragging the AFL into it: "One of the Hunter camp arguments is that the AFL and Essendon have an obligation to provide a safe workplace for players. Hunter's legal team says the action is against Essendon and the AFL on the grounds that the player's contract is tripartite – involving not only the player and the club but the league."

23 of the 34 are no longer at Ess...if Hal Hunter succeeds there will be a lot of players come out of the woodwork and follow his path. The saga is set to drag on long after CAS case is decided and any penalties served.

A most unfortunate part of this development is that by dragging the AFL into it a lot of good money is going down the drain to 'defend' the case(s)...money that should be going into the game and AFL clubs. Its just wrong that so much AFL time and money will be wasted because one rogue club went feral.

Would the AFL actually be paying (if they lose) or is it more likely they'll have some form of liability insurance which would cover any payment obligation?

Or perhaps turned a blind eye. It could've caught the AFL by surprise, but I doubt it. If anything, I think the saga highlighted the AFL's determination to keep things 'in house'. They want to micro-manage everything, the WADA situation just exposed them. Now everyone knows what time it is, people ask questions, do the AFL hide things like '3 strikes', etc. Because we wouldn't know if they did, I think it begs the question, should the AFL be regulated by an independent party? Which goes back to your second question of accountability.

It is. The Federal Australian Sports Commission and the Victorian gambling regulator both regulate them for different reasons. The gambling regulator has approved the AFL based on satisfaction with their integrity regime. That approval means that betting companies must have agreements with the AFL, which the betting companies pay for and the proceeds of which are used to pay for the costs of those integrity procedures.

[ManDee 7,093]

The Essendon Football Club wanted to know what substances former rookie player Hal Hunter believed he had been injected with during the club's 2012 supplements program, a court has heard.

Barrister Arthur Moses, SC, representing Hunter, told the Supreme Court on Thursday that the club's request was "silly" given they were the ones responsible for administering the program.

.

.

.

Mr Moses said Hunter, a contracted player with the Bombers from December 2011 before being delisted in September 2013, did not know what was exactly in the substances injected into him and "it's a basic human right to know what was put in your system".


Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/essendons-coy-supplements-answer-is-labelled-silly-in-court-20151029-gklt8a.html#ixzz3pvWSsSSi

The EFC asked the player what they had administered him! Are they for real?

Edited October 29, 2015 by ManDee

[beelzebub 22,542]

In Breaking News it is being reported that the Essendon Football Club is to sue the Essendon Football Club. It's time we got to the bottom of this supplements program an Essendon Official has said . Upon being asked by a reporter for the Titus Daily how it could be that the club was suing itself the Club Official responded by saying it's only right the players knew what was used and it's up to the Club to clarify. The Reporter again reiterated that they themselves were actually the Club so surely they would know. The official again repeated that this is true and will be awaiting the club's reply to the club's inquiry.

When questioned as to how the club could not know what was used the Official replied that this is indeed what they were hoping the club to respond to.

TD " Who ? "

EFC " The Club"

TD " But you're the club"

EFC " Yes and we await our reply "

TD

[ManDee 7,093]

In Breaking News it is being reported that the Essendon Football Club is to sue the Essendon Football Club. It's time we got to the bottom of this supplements program an Essendon Official has said . Upon being asked by a reporter for the Titus Daily how it could be that the club was suing itself the Club Official responded by saying it's only right the players knew what was used and it's up to the Club to clarify. The Reporter again reiterated that they themselves were actually the Club so surely they would know. The official again repeated that this is true and will be awaiting the club's reply to the club's inquiry.

When questioned as to how the club could not know what was used the Official replied that this is indeed what they were hoping the club to respond to.

TD " Who ? "

EFC " The Club"

TD " But you're the club"

EFC " Yes and we await our reply "

TD

Very Clarke & Dawe

Not related but funny.

Edited October 29, 2015 by ManDee