Jack Watts vs Jimmy Toumpas

[Crompton's the man 659]

a quarter as good as a backline player?

[Lord Travis 10,736]

Toumpas was alright against Freo. He didn't win as much ball as he should've, but it wasn't from lack of trying. He was constantly banging into the packs and laying tackles.

As silly as it sounds, I think his contested work is actually decent and he's very underrated in this regard. Anyone who says he doesn't go when it's his turn is either blind or a liar.

His uncontested work is where he needs to improve, which is odd as it was supposed to be his strength. Before he was drafted he was a running skilful goal kicking machine, and was the best performed midfielder at the level. At AFL level he seems to run to the wrong places to link up and just doesn't get enough of the ball due to this. If he can learn our systems better and know where to run he'll become dangerous as we know his skills are usually very good.

For what it's worth, he was better than Salem yet again the other day, yet gets crucified on here as usual.

[What 18,810]

As silly as it sounds, I think his contested work is actually decent and he's very underrated in this regard. Anyone who says he doesn't go when it's his turn is either blind or a liar.

I never understood the criticism for that part of his game either.

Have seen him run with the fight of the ball a few times at AFL level and go when its his turn. Hes been a crunched doing it and kept pushing on. I guess people just see what they want to see, or go with what others are incorrectly saying.

[Sambo06 222]

Based on what?

Typical Melbourne supporter's view.

Because you got told how good they were when they were 17?

Because they both went as high draft picks?

Jimmy Toumpas looks like a boy playing against men.

Watts looks like he doesn't even want to be there.

I hope you're right mate, I'll come and cut the pie and eat the first piece!

But I've seen nothing encouraging yet.

Based on his last half dozen games of 2013. 2014 was a waste of a year for him. Injuries crueller 2014 along with being dropped whilst other young ones from Roos draft were being given games.

I'll have the knife ready NATA.

[Henrietta Lumbago 331]

Based on his last half dozen games of 2013. 2014 was a waste of a year for him. Injuries crueller 2014 along with being dropped whilst other young ones from Roos draft were being given games.

I'll have the knife ready NATA.

So you're expecting big things from Toumpas. Me, on the other hand am not spec ting much at all, I suppose he will play 15 games in 2015 have a couple of better than average games and have a couple of games where he gets smoked. At the end of the season most of us will be scratching our heads as to whether he will ever be a good afl player or not.

I sincerely hope he has a great 2015, because he is a great guy and the sort of character which any club would welcome.

[Sambo06 222]

So you're expecting big things from Toumpas. Me, on the other hand am not spec ting much at all, I suppose he will play 15 games in 2015 have a couple of better than average games and have a couple of games where he gets smoked. At the end of the season most of us will be scratching our heads as to whether he will ever be a good afl player or not.

I sincerely hope he has a great 2015, because he is a great guy and the sort of character which any club would welcome.

Another Doubting Toumpas er Thomas....don't worry Henrietta, plenty of that Humble Pie to go around. Expecting big things from Toumpas. I was one that wanted us to get him. He has needed more time than I thought he would. I didn't think he would be great Year 1, but I did expect more in 2014.

[NATA 10]

Sounds like the 10 year long Colin Sylvia conversation everybody use to have.

20** will be his year!

6 good games, 10 stinkers and 6 mediocre performances.

Same old same old.

Next year " watch Sylvia, big year for him in 20**"

Never happened....

Be careful with your pie, don't cook too much, you may be eating it alone.

[hardtack 10,547]

Sounds like the 10 year long Colin Sylvia conversation everybody use to have.

20** will be his year!

6 good games, 10 stinkers and 6 mediocre performances.

Same old same old.

Next year " watch Sylvia, big year for him in 20**"

Never happened....

Be careful with your pie, don't cook too much, you may be eating it alone.

Or the similar conversations everyone used to have about Jones, Jamar, Pedersen, Jetta, Green, Frawley and on it goes.

[rpfc 28,476]

Or the similar conversations everyone used to have about Jones, Jamar, Pedersen, Jetta, Green, Frawley and on it goes.

I had Garland earmarked to be delisted a few rounds into 2008.

They each have their own story.

[dazzledavey36 54,948]

Toumpas was alright against Freo. He didn't win as much ball as he should've, but it wasn't from lack of trying. He was constantly banging into the packs and laying tackles.

As silly as it sounds, I think his contested work is actually decent and he's very underrated in this regard. Anyone who says he doesn't go when it's his turn is either blind or a liar.

His uncontested work is where he needs to improve, which is odd as it was supposed to be his strength. Before he was drafted he was a running skilful goal kicking machine, and was the best performed midfielder at the level. At AFL level he seems to run to the wrong places to link up and just doesn't get enough of the ball due to this. If he can learn our systems better and know where to run he'll become dangerous as we know his skills are usually very good.

For what it's worth, he was better than Salem yet again the other day, yet gets crucified on here as usual.

LT absolutely spot on. I too witnessed him going in hard and laying some strong tackles. It does make me wonder though if its possible the club start giving him spells as an on baller?

In his under 18s championship year he was playing as an onballer starting in the center and thats where i saw a hard running player who was linking up beautifully around the ground and just racking up big numbers of the ball including a 36 disposal game against one of them that i cant remembered.

Since we have drafted him he has played majority of his time as a half forward where i think he is wasted. I look at someone like a James Aish and Leppa isn't afraid to throw him in the center and let him work into it.

i also did mentioned that Toumpas was very stiff last year to get dropped when Salem was struggling himself and not getting alot of the ball. Again i thought he struggled against Freo.

I think the coaching staff need to leave toumpas in the side for about 6 weeks and just back him in and let him have a good run at it. He will get great confidence in him and i trully think he can become a great player for us.

[Brayshaw Self 847]

LT absolutely spot on. I too witnessed him going in hard and laying some strong tackles. It does make me wonder though if its possible the club start giving him spells as an on baller?

In his under 18s championship year he was playing as an onballer starting in the center and thats where i saw a hard running player who was linking up beautifully around the ground and just racking up big numbers of the ball including a 36 disposal game against one of them that i cant remembered.

Since we have drafted him he has played majority of his time as a half forward where i think he is wasted. I look at someone like a James Aish and Leppa isn't afraid to throw him in the center and let him work into it.

i also did mentioned that Toumpas was very stiff last year to get dropped when Salem was struggling himself and not getting alot of the ball. Again i thought he struggled against Freo.

I think the coaching staff need to leave toumpas in the side for about 6 weeks and just back him in and let him have a good run at it. He will get great confidence in him and i trully think he can become a great player for us.

Good comparison with Aish.

Toumpas and Aish are almost identical with what they bring to the table.

Similar size, both big tanks and neat kicks with limited speed, not ferocious in and under players and both excelled at senior level in the SANFL.

The two main differences I can see are:

- Toumpas has had severe injury interruptions (hips and appendix), whereas Aish has had a relatively clean run at it

- Aish has an excellent midfield to both support him on-field and teach off-field (Rockliff, Redden, Hanley, Rich, Leuey, Martin, Taylor, etc). Toumpas hasn't had this

For these reasons, I think it's still possible for Toumpas to reach a level of output similar to Aish in the next couple of years.

[P-man 13,366]

Good comparison with Aish.

Toumpas and Aish are almost identical with what they bring to the table.

Similar size, both big tanks and neat kicks with limited speed, not ferocious in and under players and both excelled at senior level in the SANFL.

The two main differences I can see are:

- Toumpas has had severe injury interruptions (hips and appendix), whereas Aish has had a relatively clean run at it

- Aish has an excellent midfield to both support him on-field and teach off-field (Rockliff, Redden, Hanley, Rich, Leuey, Martin, Taylor, etc). Toumpas hasn't had this

For these reasons, I think it's still possible for Toumpas to reach a level of output similar to Aish in the next couple of years.

Injury interruptions granted, but I think the validity of the second excuse is quickly fading away. Toumpas has the likes of Jones, Cross and Vince as experienced heads, the work ethic of younger players in Viney and Tyson to demonstrate the standard required, and one of the best coaching panels in the league. He has every support to become the best player he can be. No more club environment related excuses should be entertained.

For the record, I'm a long way from putting a line through Toumpas. He needs a decent run at it to make any kind of fair assessment.

[whatwhat say what 22,773]

At this stage the player Toumpas most reminds me of is Steve Salopek.

Both were star underage footballers who had injury concerns in their draft year - one had hip issues, the other shoulder concerns - neither of which stopped them being high draft picks.

Both players to me looked undersized and not fast enough to be modern day outside midfielders, and also not quick enough by hand nor tough enough to be modern day inside mids.

Both were renowned as beautiful kicks and great trainers, who (in the case of Jimmy, at this stage) haven't found a way to convert it on-field.

Sal still got a decade and 120 games out of his career, and I think it's reasonable to assume Toumpas will at least achieve something akin to that.

[ManDee 7,153]

Both vying for the quarterback position

[chook fowler 19,459]

had a phone call from Jimmy to renew my membership - which I did. The interesting thing was when I complimented him on his preseason he basically was quite negative about his form. Really nice young man but down on confidence I would think and very hard on himself. A good argument for not bringing kids in too early especially when the team is struggling.

Felt like giving him a big hug.

[dazzledavey36 54,948]

had a phone call from Jimmy to renew my membership - which I did. The interesting thing was when I complimented him on his preseason he basically was quite negative about his form. Really nice young man but down on confidence I would think and very hard on himself. A good argument for not bringing kids in too early especially when the team is struggling.

Felt like giving him a big hug.

Man thats sad to hear. Just shows the kid puts enormous pressure on himself and sometimes you can see that on field. As much as Roosy and the coaching staff try and ease the expectations on these kids it would be difficult for Toump to take that on board especially when he hears some of our idiot supporters who get on social media and twitter and say that we should have taken Wines instead of him. And he cant control what happened.

The Toump has my support all along and will never lose faith in him. I can see the determination and talent there it just all needs to click.

[chook fowler 19,459]

I will never forget his interview after his first game when we got one of usual thrashings. He was very down on himself for not making a bigger contribution. at the time I thought this guy needs the pressure taken off him. I doubt Mark Neeld was the one to do it.

Can't read to much into one short phone call but I really hope this guy relaxes and starts enjoying his footy and I hope he goes the distance with our club. He's got talent and he's got heart.

[Grapeviney 9,722]

had a phone call from Jimmy to renew my membership - which I did. The interesting thing was when I complimented him on his preseason he basically was quite negative about his form. Really nice young man but down on confidence I would think and very hard on himself. A good argument for not bringing kids in too early especially when the team is struggling.

Felt like giving him a big hug.

I guess he feels a bit like a batsman who can't get runs - the pressure increases with each innings that you don't post a big score.

He (and we) know that he hasn't set the world on fire, but it sounds like this confidence thing could be a problem for him. I hope the club is working with him on it if that is the case.

Then again, one or two games where he really gets his hands on the footy would probably work wonders..

it would be difficult for Toump to take that on board especially when he hears some of our idiot supporters who get on social media and twitter and say that we should have taken Wines instead of him.

I'd be surprised if he's letting social media get to him. Professional footballers need to be way beyond that.

[Henrietta Lumbago 331]

I will never forget his interview after his first game when we got one of usual thrashings. He was very down on himself for not making a bigger contribution. at the time I thought this guy needs the pressure taken off him. I doubt Mark Neeld was the one to do it.

Can't read to much into one short phone call but I really hope this guy relaxes and starts enjoying his footy and I hope he goes the distance with our club. He's got talent and he's got heart.

Every Melbourne supporter wants Jimmy to make it, he is a fantastic bloke and from what I have seen is always smiling and seems to be a very positive guy, but because of our form since 64 and especially since 2006, our priority is to draft people who can play football, Toumpas is probably one of the best blokes on our list, but in this day and age if he doesn't find form questions will be asked of him.

[DistrACTION Jackson 8,736]

I really hope he can get a few touches in the remaining pre season games and get some confidence heading into the season proper. I feel he has all the talent now it's up to him to believe he can do it. If anyone can instill that belief it's Roos.

[Sambo06 222]

24 Disposals, 10 Marks, 4 Tackles, 108 SC Pts.

The Pie is Cooking. Ready for the Toump Haters. BYO Cutlery.

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

24 Disposals, 10 Marks, 4 Tackles, 108 SC Pts.

The Pie is Cooking. Ready for the Toump Haters. BYO Cutlery.

I would love to eat some humble pie.

[Chook 15,013]

24 Disposals, 10 Marks, 4 Tackles, 108 SC Pts.

The Pie is Cooking. Ready for the Toump Haters. BYO Cutlery.

Wines would've got 25 disposals, 11 marks, 5 tackles and 109 SC points.

[whatwhat say what 22,773]

He was very impressive I thought, playing against essentially a vfl side with minimal defensive pressure in the first half. He got caught in possession a few times, but what I liked is that he took the game on and didn't burn the ball.

Now to do it against another vfl side in the peptides fill-ins and cement his spot on the wing for round 1.

[Yossarian 1,820]

Jonesy pretty much echoing Dazzle and Chook Fowler's posts in his interview on the website.

I reckon he's a great kid and is progressing fine.