Training - Monday 9th February 2015

[Ron Burgundy 8,587]

Good on you Saty - thanks for posting the training reports again: a decision that I expect the absolutely overwhelming majority of people here would be very happy about.

I, for one, really appreciate it.

[Wunders 397]

This was a really pleasant and enjoyable training thread to read.

Thank you everyone for keeping it that way and of course thanks to the 4 or 5 supporters who took the time to go to training and give us their thoughts

Go Dees

[rpfc 28,899]

Well, that was an enthusing read.

So the mids to start the season will be?

Jones, Cross, Viney, Vince (?), Tyson, and 5 of M.Jones, Newton, McKenzie, Michie, Bail, Salem, Toumpas, Kent, or one of Petracca, Stretch, Vandenberg, Brayshaw, Harmes, Hunt.

I hope for Newton, Michie, Kent, and Toumpas to improve for the team to do the same.

[CBDees 3,167]

Well, that was an enthusing read.

So the mids to start the season will be?

Jones, Cross, Viney, Vince (?), Tyson, and 5 of M.Jones, Newton, McKenzie, Michie, Bail, Salem, Toumpas, Kent, or one of Petracca, Stretch, Vandenberg, Brayshaw, Harmes, Hunt.

I hope for Newton, Michie, Kent, and Toumpas to improve for the team to do the same.

Don't be surprised if there are more than one of the new six that you listed!

[Bombay Airconditioning 6,477]

Yeah with Byrnes the last two years and Rodan the year before

I don't mean this is a negative way, but he's the typical athlete turned in to footballer. And his endurance is ok but not amazing (which is true of most younger talls who aren't Tom McDonald). But he'll have to work on his kicking, marking and reading the play to beat the best forwards. Size, speed, toughness and competitiveness are some very good building blocks for a key defender though.

I wouldn't say typical, most defenders are defenders because they weren't good enough to be a forward. Most defenders first instinct is to punch the ball then get straight back to their man. If he is an athlete turned footballer one thing that sets him apart is he backs himself, I'm aware he's played limited games and that highlight packages are just that but there's a few shot of him taking a contested mark rather than go the spoil every time, which he can also execute well. Also doesn't mind taking on the opposition. As we strive to get better we need our players to be versatile, every defender needs to be able to attack and vice versa. If a defender can mark the footy it's better than it being a 50/50 on the ground. I know its early G.R.R.M but I'm liking what im hearing and reading about him.

[Wunders 397]

I wouldn't say typical, most defenders are defenders because they weren't good enough to be a forward. Most defenders first instinct is to punch the ball then get straight back to their man. If he is an athlete turned footballer one thing that sets him apart is he backs himself, I'm aware he's played limited games and that highlight packages are just that but there's a few shot of him taking a contested mark rather than go the spoil every time, which he can also execute well. Also doesn't mind taking on the opposition. As we strive to get better we need our players to be versatile, every defender needs to be able to attack and vice versa. If a defender can mark the footy it's better than it being a 50/50 on the ground. I know its early G.R.R.M but I'm liking what im hearing and reading about him.

I just love that he has speed, that ability to catch up as a defender will really help in the future

[RalphiusMaximus 6,102]

Does Rawlings see T.McDonald, Dunn, Garland and Frost all in the same backline together?

Watts and Vince have been in the rehab group for a long time, will they have time to do enough training sessions to be considered for the fist NAB challenge game or are they in some doubt?

Is vandenBerg training with the forwards or mids?

Is Dawes doing any ruck work?

Good to see Gawn doing well as a forward I have him in my best 22 after those glowing reports.

Love your work TDI.

I have a suspicion that Dunn is going to move into the Scarlett role at some point. Once we have Frost and TMac holding down the two key defender spots it frees Dunn up to be more the floating general/third tall back who can chip in where needed and also run off to set up play. Geelong did the same thing with Scarlett once they had Taylor and Lonergan up and running as their two key stoppers.

[The Devil Inside 2,147]

Does Rawlings see T.McDonald, Dunn, Garland and Frost all in the same backline together?

Watts and Vince have been in the rehab group for a long time, will they have time to do enough training sessions to be considered for the fist NAB challenge game or are they in some doubt?

Is vandenBerg training with the forwards or mids?

Is Dawes doing any ruck work?

Good to see Gawn doing well as a forward I have him in my best 22 after those glowing reports.

Love your work TDI.

Rawlings is just happy he is spoilt for choice, again from what I have seen at tranng, think Dunn, Jetta and McDonald are locked in then the rest is open, through form, coming back from injury, new etc Grimes, Garland, Frost, Terlich, Oscar Mc, White, and any number of half backs, Lumumba, Salem, Toumpas, Brayshaw

Neither Watts or Vince need skills training, they have watched enough sessions to know the game plan as well, assume if they are fit they will get a run, both have done miles and miles around the oval, both said they feel, apart from the injury, the fittest they have been

Reckon Vandenberg will get a run up forward in the NAB Cup, from what I can see, we may have a forward line that consists of Gawn/Jamar/Spencer, Dawes, Hogan, Pedersen/Fitzpatrick, Petracca and Vandenberg, just so Roos can see if it works, that is some serious size there Think they want Vandenberg to build his engine before he gets into the middle, although will probably see him there in stages if it is at Casey

No Dawes doesn't do ruck work, but they have the big guys competing against each other in drills one on one, poor old Oscar Mc who is they youngest and lightest gets thrown around a bit, but he hangs in there, drew praise from McCartney the other day for doing exactly what McCartney had told him after he had pushed out of the way by Dawes

All the rucks look really good, Jamar will have a fight on his hands this year, they also have them rotating through the forward line

[The Devil Inside 2,147]

I have a suspicion that Dunn is going to move into the Scarlett role at some point. Once we have Frost and TMac holding down the two key defender spots it frees Dunn up to be more the floating general/third tall back who can chip in where needed and also run off to set up play. Geelong did the same thing with Scarlett once they had Taylor and Lonergan up and running as their two key stoppers.

Does this mean you have written off Garland or do you see him there as well? Garland can play that role , I prefer Dunn on a man and also that is the perfect role for Grimes, although size may be hindrance, the young forwards are not getting smaller

[La Dee-vina Comedia 17,009]

Saty, you haven't got Garlett in the forwards for the NAB cup. Accidental oversight or do you think he'll be rested from the NAB cup as Roos already knows what he can do?

[Vagg 2,449]

Reckon Vandenberg will get a run up forward in the NAB Cup, from what I can see, we may have a forward line that consists of Gawn/Jamar/Spencer, Dawes, Hogan, Pedersen/Fitzpatrick, Petracca and Vandenberg, just so Roos can see if it works, that is some serious size there> Think they want Vandenberg to build his engine before he gets into the middle, although will probably see him there in stages if it is at Casey

No Garlett in your Forward Line, TDI?

(Just beat me to the punch, LDC! LOL)

[Damo 3,437]

If Dunn is kicking out from full back I hope he is encouraged to go long, as he is a great long kick. I know it telegraphs our intention for him to go long all the time but to me, thats less dangerous than going 15 metres to the boundary line.

[The Devil Inside 2,147]

Probably didn't explain it properly, one look is Hogan, Dawes, Gawn/Fitzpatrick/Spencer/Pedersen, Garlett, Kent and JKH, another look is the one I put above, seen both of them during the match sim, again we have options

[The Devil Inside 2,147]

If Dunn is kicking out from full back I hope he is encouraged to go long, as he is a great long kick. I know it telegraphs our intention for him to go long all the time but to me, thats less dangerous than going 15 metres to the boundary line.

There will always be the get out of jail long kick, but Roos wants movement out of the backline, kicking long means the ball is in the air a while, helps the defenders read where it is going, whereas 2 or 3 quick short kicks and you are away, that's the plan anyway haha, seen both iin the match sim,.

Same going forward ,have leading forwards, but there seems to be a call, assume they will keep changing it, where the ball is bombed in long, if there are no other optons, all the 'big guys' get back to the goal square and you have Garlett, JKH at their feet, with the midfield pushing up to keep it in there if they don't kick a goal

[hemingway 7,633]

Probably didn't explain it properly, one look is Hogan, Dawes, Gawn/Fitzpatrick/Spencer/Pdersen, Garlett, Kent and JKH, another look is the one I put above, seen both of them during the match sim, again we have options

we have options..........unlike past seasons that comment says it all even given the inevitable injuries that will come.

[nutbean 8,838]

There will always be the get out of jail long kick, but Roos wants movement out of the backline, kicking long means the ball is in the air a while, helps the defenders read where it is going, whereas 2 or 3 quick short kicks and you are away, that's the plan anyway haha, seen both iin the match sim,.

Getting the ball out of the backline has always been about movement and workrate.

We have moaned for years about not getting the ball moving from full back. IMO this has never been about strategy - it has been about laziness. Our fullback has looked up and seen statues in red and blue jumpers. You watch the good teams - running patterns, leading over and over again until someone is freed up and then breaking hard to make the switch effective.

On the switch, it is essential that this hard work continues with the next option(s) up the field. Too many times we switch and the next player in line hasn't worked hard enough to get free. So the player with the pill stops and waits which turns off any advantage of switching in the first place.

We keep talking about intricate games plans - but the number one part of any game plan is work rate to get yourself 3 or 4 steps clear of your opponent. Free space ( gained by workrate) makes any game plan look like a winner.

[The Devil Inside 2,147]

Getting the ball out of the backline has always been about movement and workrate.

We have moaned for years about not getting the ball moving from full back. IMO this has never been about strategy - it has been about laziness. Our fullback has looked up and seen statues in red and blue jumpers. You watch the good teams - running patterns, leading over and over again until someone is freed up and then breaking hard to make the switch effective.

On the switch, it is essential that this hard work continues with the next option(s) up the field. Too many times we switch and the next player in line hasn't worked hard enough to get free. So the player with the pill stops and waits which turns off any advantage of switching in the first place.

We keep talking about intricate games plans - but the number one part of any game plan is work rate to get yourself 3 or 4 steps clear of your opponent. Free space ( gained by workrate) makes any game plan look like a winner.

Exactly what Roos has them doing over and over at training now, since Xmas that's all it's been, you get a 'word' if you don't work

[beelzebub 23,390]

Getting the ball out of the backline has always been about movement and workrate.

We have moaned for years about not getting the ball moving from full back. IMO this has never been about strategy - it has been about laziness. Our fullback has looked up and seen statues in red and blue jumpers. You watch the good teams - running patterns, leading over and over again until someone is freed up and then breaking hard to make the switch effective.

On the switch, it is essential that this hard work continues with the next option(s) up the field. Too many times we switch and the next player in line hasn't worked hard enough to get free. So the player with the pill stops and waits which turns off any advantage of switching in the first place.

We keep talking about intricate games plans - but the number one part of any game plan is work rate to get yourself 3 or 4 steps clear of your opponent. Free space ( gained by workrate) makes any game plan look like a winner.

It comes down to commitment. When the fullback ( or kicker-in-erer ) picks up that ball and looks forward , thats the cue to get moving and do your assigned role, to get to where you are meant to be and just do it. As another great footy icon once suggested, dont think, do !!

Melbourne are being trained to DO. Like much its a mind game as much as a physical one.

[The Devil Inside 2,147]

It comes down to commitment. When the fullback ( or kicker-in-erer ) picks up that ball and looks forward , thats the cue to get moving and do your assigned role, to get to where you are meant to be and just do it. As another great footy icon once suggested, dont think, do !!

Melbourne are being trained to DO. Like much its a mind game as much as a physical one.

Exactly why Matt Jones stands out at the moment, he may have some failings, some posters think so, but he works his butt off, but thankfully he has mates now

[La Dee-vina Comedia 17,009]

I apologise if this has been discussed previously, but why did Matt Jones not get drafted earlier? Was he ignored? Or did he not register for the draft until the Neeld team encouraged him to do so? While he has some deficiencies, one wonders whether he may have overcome the weaker parts of his game if he'd been "in the system" earlier.

[RalphiusMaximus 6,102]

Does this mean you have written off Garland or do you see him there as well? Garland can play that role , I prefer Dunn on a man and also that is the perfect role for Grimes, although size may be hindrance, the young forwards are not getting smaller

Honestly, having not seen anything of the players since last season myself it's hard to judge. I've often thought that our backline is top-heavy and we've been killed by sides with multiple small forward options, so it could well be that Garland is going to struggle to get back into the first choice lineup. Given that Dunn has been named VC I somehow doubt that he'll be dropped to make room if there are too many players fighting for that spot. A lot will depend on how quickly Frost develops. If he manages to command a start early in the season, then it could well be Garland making way.

[DeeSpencer 26,266]

It comes down to commitment. When the fullback ( or kicker-in-erer ) picks up that ball and looks forward , thats the cue to get moving and do your assigned role, to get to where you are meant to be and just do it. As another great footy icon once suggested, dont think, do !!

Melbourne are being trained to DO. Like much its a mind game as much as a physical one.

These days that's even too late! For set shots you have to be in position whilst the kick is on it's way. For general play you have to be getting in to position for a rebound as soon as you finish your defensive responsibility.

Roos says it best when he describes our players as defending really hard then looking for a breather as soon as we get the ball back.

[DeeSpencer 26,266]

I apologise if this has been discussed previously, but why did Matt Jones not get drafted earlier? Was he ignored? Or did he not register for the draft until the Neeld team encouraged him to do so? While he has some deficiencies, one wonders whether he may have overcome the weaker parts of his game if he'd been "in the system" earlier.

Think he was a chubby kid who then went a played local footy and then was only at Box Hill for 1-2 years. Certainly wasn't draftable before we took him. Max Gawn has a great photo on his twitter of a chubby young Jones.

Whether he played the game or had talent as a junior I don't know. His kicking certainly could've been improved the earlier he started working at it. But really it's the early teenage years or 'tween' years for a lot of that stuff. There's only so much AFL clubs can do, even the good ones.

[The Devil Inside 2,147]

I apologise if this has been discussed previously, but why did Matt Jones not get drafted earlier? Was he ignored? Or did he not register for the draft until the Neeld team encouraged him to do so? While he has some deficiencies, one wonders whether he may have overcome the weaker parts of his game if he'd been "in the system" earlier.

Had a chat to him, by his own admission bit of a late developer, went to QLD to play and then returned to Box Hill Hawks in VFL, put together a really good season and we got him.

I have explained before we have a few like him, never going to be able to do a 60 metre cross field kick down the throat of team member who doesn't have to break stride but if he has options 15 or 20 metres away, nice neat kick, have seen him miss one kick in training and have been there since day 1 and that was because he took wrong option and was told so

[rjay 25,302]

Honestly, having not seen anything of the players since last season myself it's hard to judge. I've often thought that our backline is top-heavy and we've been killed by sides with multiple small forward options, so it could well be that Garland is going to struggle to get back into the first choice lineup. Given that Dunn has been named VC I somehow doubt that he'll be dropped to make room if there are too many players fighting for that spot. A lot will depend on how quickly Frost develops. If he manages to command a start early in the season, then it could well be Garland making way.

I think this was right, particularly when Rivers was with us. This may have had as much to do with coaching as personnel.

Garland is not a problem (top heavy) as he does match up well on small & medium forwards. He could well end up battling with Jetta for a spot in the team.

Anyway to paraphrase Rawlings it's good to have options.