Training - Monday 5th January, 2015

[dazzledavey36 54,947]

Just back on topic it wouldn't have hurt the MFC website to take a couple of photos of yesterday's training.. its sad we have to rely on blokes like six6six to keep us posted with his fantastic shots.

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

The other big reason that I like him is that his biggest competition for spots tries to mark with techniques like this and often falcons himself.

So graceful.

[Dr John Dee 1,057]

I have no idea what you're talking about, unless GWS stands for Gorgeous Woman Sexmachine

What is it about 'colour-themed' that passes understanding?

Never mind. It was just a flippancy.

[Bombay Airconditioning 6,396]

I'm just shaking my head in disbelief that you're comparing an AFL powerhouse (and all its cattle) with our performances over the last seven years...

Dawes has done all that has been asked of him and more - the first task was to bring in a new attitude, leadership and setting the tone. Let's give him some support ffs.

Roughhead as a 2nd forward was just an example I wasn't comparing the teams as a whole, but there are numerous examples of teams with two or even one key forward with midfields on par with ours that have delivered more output. Our midfield improved last year, maybe just slightly but still an improvement, and we will improve again this year. And as I said in my previous post in which you chose to carefully ignore, "the backline was also under the pump" but that didn't stop the likes of Dunn and Jetta standing up in their respective roles. Standing up against a constant bombardment from teams with elite users of the football. There are numerous ways you can be a leader. You go on to say Dawes has done all that was asked of him and more, bring a new attitude/leadership/and setting the tone. As we know Roos is big on people playing their role, I would of though part of his role would have included taking the occasional grab? And don't give me the he's always outnumbered speel because we all know that's not the case. No one is doubting his on field/ off field leadership, I love his crunching tackles, I love when he loads up from outside fitty but he is in the side primarily as a key forward and if he can't do his job more often than not he needs to dropped until he regains some touch. Unfortunately for us because of where we sit on the ladder and the need to remain competitive and lack of options we have two sets of rules. The days of automatic selection need to end. Some people on here would have you believe -

Dawes dropped marks are all the midfields fault.

Watts inability to win his own ball is due to his debut game.

Grimes shite disposal is due to being made the captain to early.

It's all crap, no one should be an automatic selection. People think that offering constructive criticism is automatically bagging the player or the club. I would like to think the coaches are more scathing than we'll ever be.

And as for your "can't we just give him some support" and other posters with similar lines, do you know what levels some of us go to to support our club or do you just pretend?

Edited January 6, 2015 by Al's Demons

[rpfc 28,441]

It's ironic that we are debating the effect of a uninterrupted preseason while discussing Dawes - because he has had a massive pre-season that has completely altered his body shape, I am really looking forward to seeing what he can do with that rig.

[DeeSpencer 25,713]

It's ironic that we are debating the effect of a uninterrupted preseason while discussing Dawes - because he has had a massive pre-season that has completely altered his body shape, I am really looking forward to seeing what he can do with that rig.

That's a myth. He trimmed down as soon as he got here in 2013. Of course his 2013 was really wrecked by injuries and after recovering he managed to stall the start of last year as well. But I highly doubt there's much difference between his body this year and the last two in terms of size and shape.

[P-man 13,366]

I don't think anyone would dispute Dawes' work rate or the fact he attracted more attention from the opposition due to a lack of forward depth. But there was a stretch of games where frankly he couldn't catch a cold. He was clumsy and largely ineffective in many matches, and that surely can't constitute a par season. He's better than what he produced en masse in 2014. As he showed against Adelaide, he is in fact capable of taking a game by the scruff of the neck.

I think we're all looking forward to what he can do with another genuine KPF alongside him.

[Bluey's Dad 3,419]

So graceful.

Indeed. Like a baby giraffe.

[rpfc 28,441]

That's a myth. He trimmed down as soon as he got here in 2013. Of course his 2013 was really wrecked by injuries and after recovering he managed to stall the start of last year as well. But I highly doubt there's much difference between his body this year and the last two in terms of size and shape.

I am only going off what my eyes saw two weeks ago...

[Earl Hood 6,086]

No, I'm not blaming everything back on Dawes but I am having a critical look at his game.

I agree with you that he got a lot more attention and I agree that he will not take everything. No one does and it is not a strength of his anyway, I do expect him to improve in this area though and he can't afford to drop some of the sitters that he does.

I'm not convinced about his on field leadership but I would concede he is a good representative in media interviews. The trouble I see on field is that he will get stuck into teammates then make the exact same mistake. I'm particularly talking about him taking shots that he should give off to teammates in a better position.

He was brought to the club on good dollars to be a key forward, I don't wear this 2nd or 3rd forward stuff, he needs to perform and at the moment his on ground performance for whatever reason hasn't been up to scratch.

His inability to gain possession is sometimes because of poor delivery but often he contributes to the poor delivery by his own poor positioning.

Rjay I put up a thought bubble in another thread that years ago Darren Bennet managed to kick 87 goals despite his inability to take an overhead mark. My faded memory is of him being a stay at home full forward who got a lot of goals from leading out at the on coming play and taking the ball on his chest. He was big enough and fast enough for it to work. As soon as Jackovich came in and claimed possession of the goal square, Bennett faded away because he could not take a high mark to save himself. My proposal was that Dawes play a similar role as the stay at home full forward leading straight out from the square at the ball carrier. If someone drops into the hole in front, he can do the David Neitz act and take them out, crash the pack and bring the ball to ground. Could he manage 2 or 3 goals a game playing as an old fashioned forward?

Edited January 6, 2015 by Earl Hood

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

That's a myth. He trimmed down as soon as he got here in 2013. Of course his 2013 was really wrecked by injuries and after recovering he managed to stall the start of last year as well. But I highly doubt there's much difference between his body this year and the last two in terms of size and shape.

I heard him in a recent interview say he has trimmed about 5 kilograms off his weight this summer.

[P-man 13,366]

I heard him in a recent interview say he has trimmed about 5 kilograms off his weight this summer.

He looks noticeably leaner in the recent photos I've seen.

[jumbo returns 6,741]

Roughhead as a 2nd forward was just an example I wasn't comparing the teams as a whole, but there are numerous examples of teams with two or even one key forward with midfields on par with ours that have delivered more output. Our midfield improved last year, maybe just slightly but still an improvement, and we will improve again this year. And as I said in my previous post in which you chose to carefully ignore, "the backline was also under the pump" but that didn't stop the likes of Dunn and Jetta standing up in their respective roles. Standing up against a constant bombardment from teams with elite users of the football. There are numerous ways you can be a leader. You go on to say Dawes has done all that was asked of him and more, bring a new attitude/leadership/and setting the tone. As we know Roos is big on people playing their role, I would of though part of his role would have included taking the occasional grab? And don't give me the he's always outnumbered speel because we all know that's not the case. No one is doubting his on field/ off field leadership, I love his crunching tackles, I love when he loads up from outside fitty but he is in the side primarily as a key forward and if he can't do his job more often than not he needs to dropped until he regains some touch. Unfortunately for us because of where we sit on the ladder and the need to remain competitive and lack of options we have two sets of rules. The days of automatic selection need to end. Some people on here would have you believe -

Dawes dropped marks are all the midfields fault.

Watts inability to win his own ball is due to his debut game.

Grimes shite disposal is due to being made the captain to early.

It's all crap, no one should be an automatic selection. People think that offering constructive criticism is automatically bagging the player or the club. I would like to think the coaches are more scathing than we'll ever be.

And as for your "can't we just give him some support" and other posters with similar lines, do you know what levels some of us go to to support our club or do you just pretend?

I just pretend - but it's obviously struck a raw nerve with you.

Dawes is not the problem - he is, and continues to be, part of the solution.

Take it as you will.

[jnrmac 20,090]

It's ironic that we are debating the effect of a uninterrupted preseason while discussing Dawes - because he has had a massive pre-season that has completely altered his body shape, I am really looking forward to seeing what he can do with that rig.

Dawe had a degenerative knee problem when we recruited him as I understand it so its always been a case of managing his workloads. Hopefully the paleo diet has shed a few KGs and made it a lot easier on his knees. A good season beckons....

[Bombay Airconditioning 6,396]

Rjay I put up a thought bubble in another thread that years ago Darren Bennet managed to kick 87 goals despite his inability to take an overhead mark. My faded memory is of him being a stay at home full forward who got a lot of goals from leading out at the on coming play and taking the ball on his chest. He was big enough and fast enough for it to work. As soon as Jackovich came in and claimed possession of the goal square, Bennett faded away because he could not take a high mark to save himself. My proposal was that Dawes play a similar role as the stay at home full forward leading straight out from the square at the ball carrier. If someone drops into the hole in front, he can do the David Neitz act and take them out, crash the pack and bring the ball to ground. Could he manage 2 or 3 goals a game playing as an old fashioned forward?

I like it Hood and it's certainly worth a try. Some here think Hogan is more suited to CHF, if that is the case it would be worth trialing in a pre-season game.

[KingDingAling 3,758]

Dawe had a degenerative knee problem when we recruited him as I understand it so its always been a case of managing his workloads. Hopefully the paleo diet has shed a few KGs and made it a lot easier on his knees. A good season beckons....

Dawes main problem in his last year at Collingwood was a 'stiff finger' - and he lost confidence in himself over this issue.

[rjay 24,929]

Rjay I put up a thought bubble in another thread that years ago Darren Bennet managed to kick 87 goals despite his inability to take an overhead mark. My faded memory is of him being a stay at home full forward who got a lot of goals from leading out at the on coming play and taking the ball on his chest. He was big enough and fast enough for it to work. As soon as Jackovich came in and claimed possession of the goal square, Bennett faded away because he could not take a high mark to save himself. My proposal was that Dawes play a similar role as the stay at home full forward leading straight out from the square at the ball carrier. If someone drops into the hole in front, he can do the David Neitz act and take them out, crash the pack and bring the ball to ground. Could he manage 2 or 3 goals a game playing as an old fashioned forward?

I think if he leads up at the ball more 'Earl' he will be a much more effective player.

It's always interesting watching 'Jack the sook' at Richmond, he has a bad habit of trying to wrestle with his opponents in a contest of ego and he just doesn't have the strength to do it hence why Frawley would usually take him apart. When he gets on his bike and leads he is a very tricky opponent.

Dawes has a strong body and is a nice long kick. If he can get on the lead more he will be of more value. I'm not sure a stay at home role would work as much these days but I'm sure he will rotate from deep forward at times.

[DeeSpencer 25,713]

I am only going off what my eyes saw two weeks ago...

Fair enough. Personally I think he did a big trim down when he changed clubs, then the last couple of years have been more about keeping weight off his legs and moving with the trend in the competition like a lot of big guys have (Roughead and Frawley are 2 examples). I can see going from the 105kg that he might have been at Collingwood to around 100 making a difference but after that I don't see it. Unless you get a big jump in fitness really I think trimming a few kg's just puts you in line with the competition more than gives you a special edge. At his height he's never going to be less than 95kg, so it's not like he's got much to work with.

I think he'll get a fitness edge more from doing a full preseason (touch wood) than from trimming a few kilos. But I don't think it will help his marking or goal kicking particularly. He's a player of limited skills set but a lot of effort and in form he can get much better results. I expect he'll grow another leg playing with Hogan because they'll push each other along as both aren't afraid to take a step back

[rpfc 28,441]

If he has trimmed 5 kgs like a poster mentioned above - that is huge, he will feel light as a feather. I am his height and weight and 5 kgs is a huge weight lifted - you can do more, get to more contests, have more confidence.

He looked very good in the flesh a fortnight ago.

[dpositive 1,665]

Just back on topic it wouldn't have hurt the MFC website to take a couple of photos of yesterday's training.. its sad we have to rely on blokes like six6six to keep us posted with his fantastic shots.

They have hopefully realised they cant beat them so why put resources into

[DeeSpencer 25,713]

I think if he leads up at the ball more 'Earl' he will be a much more effective player.

It's always interesting watching 'Jack the sook' at Richmond, he has a bad habit of trying to wrestle with his opponents in a contest of ego and he just doesn't have the strength to do it hence why Frawley would usually take him apart. When he gets on his bike and leads he is a very tricky opponent.

Dawes has a strong body and is a nice long kick. If he can get on the lead more he will be of more value. I'm not sure a stay at home role would work as much these days but I'm sure he will rotate from deep forward at times.

Riewoldt is a good example of the same problems Dawes faces due to being in a weak side though. Dawes doesn't lead up when 50m out from goal as no one is behind him. No point marking it at 70m out and having no one forward. So he wrestles or leads back. It's actually part of the game plan I saw at training last year. The mids and half forwards are meant to peel in to the space in front of Dawes, then Dawes spins back inside 50.

How it's meant to work though is that the player with the ball at midfield moves it on quickly and then it goes quickly again to Dawes/or other forward inside 50. It's meant to happen with such speed that you don't notice Dawes sitting 50m out by himself. Roughead/Gunston and the Hawks are the best at this.

But I do get the frustration of a forward not leading up. I've always thought if it doubt then lead up and provide an option. Gives the midfielders/backs a more straight forward option and everyone else can work around that.

[rjay 24,929]

Riewoldt is a good example of the same problems Dawes faces due to being in a weak side though. Dawes doesn't lead up when 50m out from goal as no one is behind him. No point marking it at 70m out and having no one forward. So he wrestles or leads back. It's actually part of the game plan I saw at training last year. The mids and half forwards are meant to peel in to the space in front of Dawes, then Dawes spins back inside 50.

How it's meant to work though is that the player with the ball at midfield moves it on quickly and then it goes quickly again to Dawes/or other forward inside 50. It's meant to happen with such speed that you don't notice Dawes sitting 50m out by himself. Roughead/Gunston and the Hawks are the best at this.

But I do get the frustration of a forward not leading up. I've always thought if it doubt then lead up and provide an option. Gives the midfielders/backs a more straight forward option and everyone else can work around that.

Jack gets caught out wrestling too much, when he gets on his bike he kicks goals.

[The Devil Inside 2,147]

To answer a couple of questions

Dawes is still around the 100k mark, he told me, just doing a full pre season has got him fitter

A mark is a good mark if it sticks, the technique doesn't matter, Fitzy couldn't do something normally if he tried, now his shoulders are fixed, in all the training sessions I have been to, I have seen him only put one down. same with Dawes, this is a new season forget the past, if they are both dropping marks in June, then you can whinge and I'll join in

Other questions Pedo is another who hasn't missed a session, his running and speed are getting better each session, spoke to him pre Xmas is feeling great, looking to earn a place in the team and knows it will be competitive

Harmes is back in full training, and looking ok, another who just does everything without fuss, only a rookie but another one to put pressure on for midfield spots

As for the photos, the media staff are on Xmas break, hence no photos, if you need a fix go to my Twitter account Demonpk, that's where Georgywho got the Fitzy pic

[Bluey's Dad 3,419]

Holy crap:

How old is Jack? 19? 20?

Unbelievable...

(Thanks for pic Saty)

[dazzledavey36 54,947]

Holy crap:

How old is Jack? 19? 20?

Unbelievable...

(Thanks for pic Saty)

Newton is a unit aswell. Big boy