What do we do with Grimes?

[Coq au vin 755]

I actually thought he looked pale and sick out there....

Not his best match by any stretch, but give him a break.

yes he did look pale and sick. Perhaps he was sick. Maybe they shouldn't have played him. Those repeated turnovers were terrible though.

[Arrow 1,257]

We have clearly run out of scapegoats. It must be hard to get angry with Byrnes out of the team, especially with Watts and Pederson playing well.

Some of the things being said about Grimes are simply false. He is excellent overhead. He very rarely loses a contest. He is strong (despite comments to the contrary) and quick.

Add to this is he is a great runner, which is really important to a strong defence.

The problem is when posters only look through the most basic of lenses. They see the occasional turnover and then try to justify why that player is bad. Grimes is so far in the positive balance with his contributions that it isn't funny.

His actions on the field will be enormously respected by those who know: the coaches and his fellow defenders. He is a role player and he plays that role very well.

Please.

He has good attributes but his skill errors directly cost us 3 goals today. Not to mention up by 4 points in the third quarter, him receiving a ball in the middle running to CHF and turning it over with an over the head handball.

He's a good footballer but he's not immune to criticism. He played a stinker today and deserves his whack. We're not a basket case now, if he can't do his job we'll find someone who can.. It's the Roos way.

I'll be watching with anticipation.

[TRIGON 4,796]

I made the trip to Alice Springs and thought the amount of work off the ball alone keeps Grims in our top 50% of players easily. Just needs to try to keep it simple sometimes

Thanks for the insight Crackers. When watching on TV it's harder (sometime impossible) to appreciate the nuances of play.

That being said we do have a huge issue across our half-back line. Not one of them is a great kick. Compare that to the Swans on Thursday - where much of their demolition of the Cats came from superb attacks launched from their half-back line.

[monoccular 17,701]

If, as one poster with "insider knowledge" (don't you love that unattributed term) he is injured, and that injury accounts of his poor performances*, then surely he should have the injury treated / rested and not play until he has recovered.

Continuing to play with an injury / illness that impairs performance does nobody a service - 22 and 186 spring to mind.

* I realise that few if any AFL players aren't carrying some sort of injury, but we are talking about one that impairs performance - Jack Trengove anyone?

[Ethan Tremblay 31,278]

He works very hard. He tries very hard.

He bites off more than he can chew.

He just needs to learn his limitations and play within them.

If he doesn't, he won't be there when we start playing finals.

Who is Jack Grimes?

Ohhhh sorry thought we were playing Jeopardy.

[beelzebub 23,390]

We have clearly run out of scapegoats. It must be hard to get angry with Byrnes out of the team, especially with Watts and Pederson playing well.

Some of the things being said about Grimes are simply false. He is excellent overhead. He very rarely loses a contest. He is strong (despite comments to the contrary) and quick.

Add to this is he is a great runner, which is really important to a strong defence.

The problem is when posters only look through the most basic of lenses. They see the occasional turnover and then try to justify why that player is bad. Grimes is so far in the positive balance with his contributions that it isn't funny.

His actions on the field will be enormously respected by those who know: the coaches and his fellow defenders. He is a role player and he plays that role very well.

What you may term Scapegoat many others view as "his turn under the spotlight"

Under Roos quite a few players seemed have found a yard or two ,indeed some a complete change of thinking. They have stepped up. Grimes doesnt seem to have done this, if anything its a rocking back and forth between slipping and regaining some form.

No one is ( think ) particularly looking to black Grimes for a loss etc but in the new Roos world all players must play a role and play it well and play it 100 % of the game.

Not all of what Grimes achieves is at the fall of the ball etc but he seems less able of late to do many of those little 1% type things that set him apart. He's no longer apart and indeed hes very much lumbering along. A 6 season veteran ought not be making some of the clumsy mistakes and what can only be seen as brain fades as he has this year. Im somewhat aghast really at this as I previously thought he was a "general' in the back able to cleverly devise something out of nothing and in his earlier days often drove us out of trouble and straightened us up into rebound attack. The guy currently wearing 31 seems an eon away from the one I remember.

If he is injured he needs to be fixed.

If he is stale he needs to go back down and rekindle and reboot.

He is of course to be persevered with...but not at the expense of the rest of the team, nor the efforts or results due the others for their development.

JG is like any player...a cog in a larger machine. He has to have a purpose and do it well or there is no place, for he will have no role.

[Pates 9,690]

I love Grimes, but he'd got to get his stupid turnovers out of his game. He killed the Chad today (prior to him being killed by his own player), but it makes that game look pointless when you give up easy goals. I think he feels like he needs to move it quicker when he has the ball, he doesn't sum the situation up like he used to.

[P-man 13,367]

Choose your own adventure.

You are Jack Grimes and you have the footy at half back, with a paddock in front of you. If you want to kick the ball as soon as you get it, go to Result 1. If you want to play on, go to Result 2.

Result 1: You try to spot up a target on the boundary line, but you miss it and the ball goes out of bounds on the full.

Result 2: You run yourself into trouble. If you wish to take on tacklers, go to Result 3. If you wish to get rid of the ball, go to Result 4.

Result 3: You are tackled and pinged for holding the ball. The opposition move it quickly up the field and hit the scoreboard.

Result 4: You handball it to a teammate that is covered. They get tackled, pinged for holding the ball, and the opposition rebounds it quickly and hits the scoreboard.

If he's going to contribute on-field to our rise up the ladder, Grimes seriously needs to improve his decision making. He constantly turns it over, chooses the wrong option, and puts teammates under the pump. I think he's more than capable of becoming a great player, as we've all seen it in patches, but at the moment he's got a lot of work to do to get there.

There was an eery familiarity to this post.

I love what Grimes brings to the club off field. He's the consummate professional in that regard. On field, his weaknesses are still ever present. He is capable of performing well but the consistency is a long way off. I hope he bounces back next week

[titan_uranus 25,212]

We have clearly run out of scapegoats. It must be hard to get angry with Byrnes out of the team, especially with Watts and Pederson playing well.

Some of the things being said about Grimes are simply false. He is excellent overhead. He very rarely loses a contest. He is strong (despite comments to the contrary) and quick.

Add to this is he is a great runner, which is really important to a strong defence.

The problem is when posters only look through the most basic of lenses. They see the occasional turnover and then try to justify why that player is bad. Grimes is so far in the positive balance with his contributions that it isn't funny.

His actions on the field will be enormously respected by those who know: the coaches and his fellow defenders. He is a role player and he plays that role very well.

What I'm seeing is a team that is finally improving, and a player who is starting to stand out now because he's treading water. Not a scapegoat so much as a player whose lack of improvement this year mightn't have mattered much last year, but does now.

I don't agree that he's strong (for mine he lacks upper body strength) or quick, but even those to one side, you've identified all the good things about him like his work overhead, his defensive work one-on-one, his running and his team-minded play. All of those are positive qualities. But they're qualities he's had his whole career. Similarly, he still has the same flaws - the dodgy kicking, the poor decision-making, and they're now standing out a little more because we're seeing less of that from others.

I'm not writing him off to any degree, and as I've said, he has some fantastic traits that are needed in any side. His work against Adelaide and Carlton exemplified that. But his mistakes and his flaws are holding him back, he's not improving and he's not at a quality that we need him to be at if we want to truly become an A-grade side. He has to work on his kicking and decision-making because if he doesn't, he's going to get left behind.

[Lil_red_fire_engine 11,339]

We have clearly run out of scapegoats. It must be hard to get angry with Byrnes out of the team, especially with Watts and Pederson playing well.

Some of the things being said about Grimes are simply false. He is excellent overhead. He very rarely loses a contest. He is strong (despite comments to the contrary) and quick.

Add to this is he is a great runner, which is really important to a strong defence.

The problem is when posters only look through the most basic of lenses. They see the occasional turnover and then try to justify why that player is bad. Grimes is so far in the positive balance with his contributions that it isn't funny.

His actions on the field will be enormously respected by those who know: the coaches and his fellow defenders. He is a role player and he plays that role very well.

This is not about potting a player AOB. This is about looking at how we move to the next level. He is a very good defensive player. He runs well. He is a liability with the ball. To become a top side we can not have 3 players in our backline that poorly execute decisions and skills. At some point they need to improve or be pushed out. Grimes is not close to being out of the side but only because no one is challenging for the role with lesser deficiencies.

[DemonOX 8,837]

How about every time he turns the ball over we "taser" him!!

Might be just the tonic to encourage him to rectify his kicking and decision making!!

[Adam The God 30,644]

We have clearly run out of scapegoats. It must be hard to get angry with Byrnes out of the team, especially with Watts and Pederson playing well.

Some of the things being said about Grimes are simply false. He is excellent overhead. He very rarely loses a contest. He is strong (despite comments to the contrary) and quick.

Add to this is he is a great runner, which is really important to a strong defence.

The problem is when posters only look through the most basic of lenses. They see the occasional turnover and then try to justify why that player is bad. Grimes is so far in the positive balance with his contributions that it isn't funny.

His actions on the field will be enormously respected by those who know: the coaches and his fellow defenders. He is a role player and he plays that role very well.

Who's saying Grimes isn't excellent overhead? And this year, he loses more contests than he wins. As for being a great runner, did you watch the passage of play yesterday when Neade jogged away from him to kick a goal in the first term or when one of the Port forwards (can't remember remember which one) waltzed away from him in the forward pocket, but fortunately left the ball behind and it ran out of play? He's not a great runner. He's average at best. And personally, these basic lenses you refer to highlight turn overs. As a number of posters have now pointed out, it isn't just his clangers, it's the fact that he puts his team mates under pressure and consistently makes the wrong decision, which halves the contest when we should be controlling the ball movement.

[Adam The God 30,644]

yes he did look pale and sick. Perhaps he was sick. Maybe they shouldn't have played him. Those repeated turnovers were terrible though.

Now we're making excuses for him out of nowhere. Has he been sick all season too? Was he sick all last season?

If, as one poster with "insider knowledge" (don't you love that unattributed term) he is injured, and that injury accounts of his poor performances*, then surely he should have the injury treated / rested and not play until he has recovered.

Continuing to play with an injury / illness that impairs performance does nobody a service - 22 and 186 spring to mind.

* I realise that few if any AFL players aren't carrying some sort of injury, but we are talking about one that impairs performance - Jack Trengove anyone?

Agreed. Just last week, Roos lauded Jetta for having the courage to say no, I won't play and jeopardise the team by playing sick. They left him out of the Richmond game, because of gastro.

I love Grimes, but he'd got to get his stupid turnovers out of his game. He killed the Chad today (prior to him being killed by his own player), but it makes that game look pointless when you give up easy goals. I think he feels like he needs to move it quicker when he has the ball, he doesn't sum the situation up like he used to.

Jetta killed Wingard. Grimes tried to take Neade.

[dee-luded 2,959]

How about every time he turns the ball over we "taser" him!!

Might be just the tonic to encourage him to rectify his kicking and decision making!!

arm all supporters around the boundary fence with tasers, thats the ticket. good way to encourage corridor footy.

[deeko 952]

If we are complaining about Grimes not being good enough at least we know we are heading in the right direction.

He has always been a favourite of mine and will continue being so but he was very ordinary yesterday and hasn't had his best season by far.

He copt a big hit to the head in the game, can't remember when it was. He is always going in head first and getting knocked around. It worries me as we all know he is looking for a free kick but its a big risk when your putting your scone and neck on the line how Jack does it. Maybe he stunk it up more after this hit as he was a little dazed? Or maybe I am clutching at straws.

I have no issues at all with him still playing ones until someone in the twos shows us more and demands selection. I think Grimes is safe for this season

[Fitz Fitzpatrick 886]

Choose your own adventure.

You are Jack Grimes and you have the footy at half back, with a paddock in front of you. If you want to kick the ball as soon as you get it, go to Result 1. If you want to play on, go to Result 2.

Result 1: You try to spot up a target on the boundary line, but you miss it and the ball goes out of bounds on the full.

Result 2: You run yourself into trouble. If you wish to take on tacklers, go to Result 3. If you wish to get rid of the ball, go to Result 4.

Result 3: You are tackled and pinged for holding the ball. The opposition move it quickly up the field and hit the scoreboard.

Result 4: You handball it to a teammate that is covered. They get tackled, pinged for holding the ball, and the opposition rebounds it quickly and hits the scoreboard.

If he's going to contribute on-field to our rise up the ladder, Grimes seriously needs to improve his decision making. He constantly turns it over, chooses the wrong option, and puts teammates under the pump. I think he's more than capable of becoming a great player, as we've all seen it in patches, but at the moment he's got a lot of work to do to get there.

That sounds like a pretty ordinary book, Good times.

[Good Times Grimes 2,396]

That sounds like a pretty ordinary book, Good times.

So far I've struggled to find a publisher to pick it up, funnily enough.

[baysidedave 246]

His game today was pretty disgraceful.

wasn't disgraceful, made a couple of errors but puts in and generally ok

[Fitz Fitzpatrick 886]

So far I've struggled to find a publisher to pick it up, funnily enough.

Neeld?

[Fitz Fitzpatrick 886]

Im doing a bit of window shopping, watching the GWS game this afternoon.

Im all for the coaching staff to work with Grimes to improve his weaknesses but if we want to go the next step that HB line needs to have some talent. Treloar with his kicking could be handy

[mdemon 266]

As other posters have commented, some of Grimes' critics need to get a grip.

This is a guy who was drafted in 2007 but only plays the one game (final round) in his initial year due to a persistent back injury. His subsequent seasons are blighted IIRC by shocking luck with various broken bones and repeated concussions. Overall, of a possible 132-odd games since he was eligible, he has played 78 (i.e. @ 60% of total possible).

His courage and ability to read the play (especially with intercept marks) is very good.

Having said that, his decision making does undo a lot of his good work in the back half.

It did also seem that he was carrying an injury yesterday - as someone noted, the way Neade waltzed away from Grimes in the 1st qtr was worrying. I just hope that Jack, having had a wretched run with injuries early on in his career, is not trying to be 'heroically stoic' ATM. The responsibility/burden of co-captaincy may also be compelling him to think he should keep playing.

Presumably Roos would 'see through' a player trying to play when he should be rested?

[beelzebub 23,390]

I have no issues at all with him still playing ones until someone in the twos shows us more and demands selection. I think Grimes is safe for this season

Thats a fair call really I suppose even though I do have a tendency myself to want players to rejuvenate in the magoos. Having said that Roos has made a point of saying those below wont come up til they absolutely deserve it. The counterside to this is those in the seniors might get a stay of execution until someone rattles the chain mercilessly.

Two players Id love to see regain their pizaz .Trengove...and Grimes. They were genuinely abundant in promise and deserving of their draft picks but I couldnt say weve got value just yet.

I take solace in the fact that all of a sudden Pedersen is a player. Even Watts seems to be clicking ( if somewhat haphazardly ). If this can occur then surely the 'whisperer" can perform his magic on Grimes. That would be a marvelous result.

[Machsy 2,858]

Im doing a bit of window shopping, watching the GWS game this afternoon.

Im all for the coaching staff to work with Grimes to improve his weaknesses but if we want to go the next step that HB line needs to have some talent. Treloar with his kicking could be handy

That's like saying Ablett would be handy.

[Damo 3,447]

I have been guilty of having a go at Grimes earlier this season. I had no rose coloured glasses.

But now Im so rapt that others have stepped up all around him, I just hope he stays uninjured and things go right for him.

I accept he is possibly going through a tough time and am happy to wait.

Smell the roses.

[rpfc 28,966]

Roos has turned a few players around hasn't he?

Do those that think Grimes should be dropped ready for what he would be replaced by?

His footy smarts are up there, his execution of late looks confidence-less but he is most-definitely someone you persist with.