Practice Match - Melbourne v Hawthorn @ Casey Fields

[ILLDieADemon 804]

Thank god the boys did the telethon before this game, these no way an extra 500 people would have signed up after that poor performance on Saturday.

[FarNorthernD 5,861]

As others have said it is a long season but it would not be unreasonable to suggest that Hawthorn could be head and shoulders above all other teams this year. They could be the Essendon of 2000 (21-1 W/L) or the Saints of 2009 (20-2 155%).

So whilst getting done by 110 points is never a good thing and the Geelong score definitely flattered us there will be many good teams thrashed by the Hawks over the course of the year.

The difference for us this year is that Roos will make a positive out of the defeat. We will actually learn something from it unlike all those other "learning experiences" we have had in the past few years.

[beelzebub 23,238]

I know for a fact that some at the club think our previous development was so bad it virtually gave some players no chance at success.

which one of those was ever any good....really ?? where are they now

defence rests

[old dee 23,506]

As others have said it is a long season but it would not be unreasonable to suggest that Hawthorn could be head and shoulders above all other teams this year. They could be the Essendon of 2000 (21-1 W/L) or the Saints of 2009 (20-2 155%).

So whilst getting done by 110 points is never a good thing and the Geelong score definitely flattered us there will be many good teams thrashed by the Hawks over the course of the year.

The difference for us this year is that Roos will make a positive out of the defeat. We will actually learn something from it unlike all those other "learning experiences" we have had in the past few years.

That I would like to see.

No idea how you learn from a 18 goal thrashing.

If anything was to be learned from thrashings, we would be rocket scientist after the last two years.

The thing I have learned is that the list is as bad as I suspected.

Extremely depressing

Edited March 9, 2014 by old dee

[Ted Lasso 18,879]

As others have said it is a long season but it would not be unreasonable to suggest that Hawthorn could be head and shoulders above all other teams this year. They could be the Essendon of 2000 (21-1 W/L) or the Saints of 2009 (20-2 155%).

So whilst getting done by 110 points is never a good thing and the Geelong score definitely flattered us there will be many good teams thrashed by the Hawks over the course of the year.

The difference for us this year is that Roos will make a positive out of the defeat. We will actually learn something from it unlike all those other "learning experiences" we have had in the past few years.

Could not agree more, sometimes you come across a team that if they're on they are going to belt whoever they are playing, they did the same to North only a week ago

[old dee 23,506]

Could not agree more, sometimes you come across a team that if they're on they are going to belt whoever they are playing, they did the same to North only a week ago

The MFC seems to run into them every other week.

[Ted Lasso 18,879]

The MFC seems to run into them every other week.

We have been kinda the exception to the rule for a while

[Bring-Back-Powell 14,459]

Anyone give us a sniff v GWS in round 3 without Dawes, Clark and Hogan?

[Ted Lasso 18,879]

Anyone give us a sniff v GWS in round 3 without Dawes, Clark and Hogan?

I reckon we will beat them, and i reckon hogan will play that game, we played alright against the Tigers and Cats, Hawks were just scary good on the day

[jumbo returns 6,703]

I reckon we will beat them, and i reckon hogan will play that game, we played alright against the Tigers and Cats, Hawks were just scary good on the day

GWS will run us ragged.

Their entire development has seen them running back and forth since Day 1 - we've been doing it for 2 minutes.

They have 14 midfielders that will spread and kill us. Add Patton, Cameron and perhaps Boyd and we'll be cooked.

[Still Waiting 94]

We are still a comparatively slow side, particularly the on ballers. This is gunna hurt us, as speed and endurance are not our strong points. Gotta work out how to manage our talls much better. It cant just be bad luck, year after year after year.

[Bring-Back-Powell 14,459]

Can anyone there yesterday evaluate the games of Pedersen and Nicholson?

[old dee 23,506]

Can anyone there yesterday evaluate the games of Pedersen and Nicholson?

You cannot guess BBP?

[Whispering_Jack 29,298]

Can anyone there yesterday evaluate the games of Pedersen and Nicholson?

I'll do Nicholson.

* did not play

[Je Roos Salem 661]

I was there yesterday and was pretty upset. What we can take is it's not gonna be the last time that we're put to the slaughter by a side this year. We were alright for the first quarter in terms of possession quantity/quality, but from then we were just a lost cause. Numerous times our entire 18 were in their defensive half and since we gave up on a forward line the Hawks just toyed with us and had Luke Hodge as a singular guarding defender and put Gibson forward. I don't think it was quite as devastating as some performances last year, but it had a similar feel. The Hawks are just a masterful side who we are nowhere near in getting close to in a head to head. They just play a possession style so much better and know where to run and who to run with. Plus they have a plethora of forward options.

They made our midfield look shabby again too. Not sure about stats, were stats of the game posted anywhere/counted? Vince was very quiet after quarter time as were most. Grimes and Frawley were solid in defence, which was a bit consoling. Most players had pitiful disposal. N.Jones was probably our best mid. By the way, I could do without seeing Shannon Byrnes play. I would've rather seen Evans play or JKH or Viney starting the game. I can't see what value he adds to the team and was hugely disappointing last year and regularly makes blunders

[Alcho Dee 269]

I was there yesterday and was pretty upset. What we can take is it's not gonna be the last time that we're put to the slaughter by a side this year. We were alright for the first quarter in terms of possession quantity/quality, but from then we were just a lost cause. Numerous times our entire 18 were in their defensive half and since we gave up on a forward line the Hawks just toyed with us and had Luke Hodge as a singular guarding defender and put Gibson forward. I don't think it was quite as devastating as some performances last year, but it had a similar feel. The Hawks are just a masterful side who we are nowhere near in getting close to in a head to head. They just play a possession style so much better and know where to run and who to run with. Plus they have a plethora of forward options.

They made our midfield look shabby again too. Not sure about stats, were stats of the game posted anywhere/counted? Vince was very quiet after quarter time as were most. Grimes and Frawley were solid in defence, which was a bit consoling. Most players had pitiful disposal. N.Jones was probably our best mid. By the way, I could do without seeing Shannon Byrnes play. I would've rather seen Evans play or JKH or Viney starting the game. I can't see what value he adds to the team and was hugely disappointing last year and regularly makes blunders

One thing I like about the people we drafted this year is they are hungry, you can see how hungry Cross and Vince are, I have never seen that from Byrnes.

[Je Roos Salem 661]

One thing I like about the people we drafted this year is they are hungry, you can see how hungry Cross and Vince are, I have never seen that from Byrnes.

They are also good assets to the team we needed. Byrnes had fallen completely out of favour at Geelong, played like 2 games in 2012, and had been in and out regularly in years before that, while Cross only got dropped briefly when they wanted to implement more youth, but him and Vince played more or less every game last year. Byrnes' experience/reputation hasn't done anything for us, and he doesn't really have a proper position. Cross and Vince are quality footballers, much higher class than Byrnes. I wasn't against us acquiring Byrnes when we got him because I was excited to see what he could offer, but from what i've learnt, it's next to nothing. He's nearly 30 and we've got talented youngsters knocking the door down for selection whom our supporters would rather see play. In fact i'm surprised he did the membership telethon, he might be a nice guy and a good clubman, but if you're a passionate supporter who cares about how we play you wouldn't exactly be excited taking a call from him.

[Je Roos Salem 661]

A couple more observations from Saturday, it looked more like an under-prepared, undermanned poor team getting taught a football lesson by a premiership team rather than a bunch of guys who didn't want to be out there waving their arms around and huddling with each other after each goal. It was a more honest shellacking, we were harder at it and there were some pretty good efforts. Disposal is a clear worry too. Fitzpatrick cannot hit a target by foot to save his life unless it's on goal. Mckenzie should stick to handballing. I'm confused about Watts. He doesn't seem to have the confidence in his game properly worked out Plus, he looks thinner and it's starting to worry me. I don't think he's cut out to be a midfielder

[olisik 4,060]

I have been saying it for years and am happy to be proven wrong but we should trade Watts while he still has some sort of currency. Hid had 5 years and the longer this charade goes on the more we lose from it. He is not cut out for it.

[dee-luded 2,959]

And wasn't given as much opportunity as others..........

huh?

I think your saying that he didn't do as well as others?

i think he had more talent than most, but wasn't handled right in the first place. nor was Morton, or some others, compounded by our Poor culture & lacking leaders. & inferior gamestyles.

I've always been harping on about being tough & rugged & playing contested footy fort at least 10 years now.

Finally we have a coach who agrees with this method, & we could have really done with a coach like Roos, or like Mark Thompson or Clarko since 2007. Someone who'll get an honest games play from the players gamestyle wise.

So I'm saying Bennell has the skills to use in todays game, as long as he was taught at first to adapt in the reserves to a more physical gamestyle, including tackling & defending. IMO, the finely built players need More time in the seconds, to grow their bodies, & to instill a tough approach in their attitudes.

We've been really ordinary at development over the last 10 + years.

[Lucifers Hero 39,017]

I was there yesterday and was pretty upset. What we can take is it's not gonna be the last time that we're put to the slaughter by a side this year. We were alright for the first quarter in terms of possession quantity/quality, but from then we were just a lost cause. Numerous times our entire 18 were in their defensive half and since we gave up on a forward line the Hawks just toyed with us and had Luke Hodge as a singular guarding defender and put Gibson forward. I don't think it was quite as devastating as some performances last year, but it had a similar feel. The Hawks are just a masterful side who we are nowhere near in getting close to in a head to head. They just play a possession style so much better and know where to run and who to run with. Plus they have a plethora of forward options.

They made our midfield look shabby again too. Not sure about stats, were stats of the game posted anywhere/counted? Vince was very quiet after quarter time as were most. Grimes and Frawley were solid in defence, which was a bit consoling. Most players had pitiful disposal. N.Jones was probably our best mid. By the way, I could do without seeing Shannon Byrnes play. I would've rather seen Evans play or JKH or Viney starting the game. I can't see what value he adds to the team and was hugely disappointing last year and regularly makes blunders

We played the whole 2nd qtr like this but what was really disappointing was that when we had a kickout none of our players went back into our forward half so the kickout went toward the boundary then (if we got the ball) there was absolutely no-one to kick to. We start handballing back and side and of course Hawks pack-attack us and get ball back. Its hard to believe our game plan is for all to stay in our back half when we have a kickout. Its either our game plan to do this or our players weren't following our game plan. What was surprising is that that game plan was not working but we seemed incapable of changing. Scary if this continues...lost a fair bit of hope on Saurday.

[TheoX 1,220]

I'll do Nicholson.

* did not play

I'll do Pedersen:

May as well have not played/should not have played/should never play again.

[Ron Burgundy 8,584]

It is what it is.

We tried to play the Hawthorn way and got exposed and shown where we're at. They chopped us up on the outside, but I thought our endevour at the stoppages was OK. Roos will get far more from this loss than the win against Richmond.

Also, we went head to head all day. It was a practice match and Roos didn't try to rein in the loss. We know where we're at and it will do the players good to know where we need to get to.

Seemingly I'm not as upset as others.

Top observation. I think you're absolutely on the money here - it's a good thing for Roos to see those deficiencies exposed prior to the season commencing.

[Akum 2,660]

Seems like a fairly simple equation. We had a D-grade midfield, we're now maybe B-grade. We're still going to get smashed by a well-drilled side with an A-grade midfield. If Roosy can't come up with a way to offset this - and without tall forwards and Garland, and with only Spencer as ruck - we're gonna get smashed this year against the sides with A-grade midfields.

If we've modelled our game style on the Hawks - "once we get it, we try to keep possession until we score" - then it sounds like it was simply the Master vs the Apprentice.

Then again, any game style breaks down if you can't get first hands on the ball.

[Hannibal 5,814]

which one of those was ever any good....really ?? where are they now

defence rests

Your arguments are very simple and I've used them myself, often. It's not like I'm unfamiliar with the players in question or their weaknesses.

I have no doubt that the environment at this club over the last few years coupled with terrible decision making and a lack of quality senior players was not conducive for any young player to realise their capabilities. They were seen as the solution and developed accordingly when they should have been learning their craft and not exposed to a toxic environment. They were handled terribly.

The fact that some then get churned by the system is entirely unsurprising and not in itself definitive. Those early years are very important for a player's career.

I also have no doubt that some recruiting selections were poor. You and others seem to think it's an either-or situation. It isn't. Things run far deeper.

Edited March 9, 2014 by Hannibal