The AFL are trying to kill Melbourne

[Demoneyes 562]

Why don't you get off your arse and go the extra 10 minutes on the train or tram. None of us like it there, but get through the turnstiles and support the club.

Explained above why I don't go but I support the club by buying a membership each year regardless of whether I can go or not.

[DeeSpencer 24,695]

I don't understand this... sure, I agree that we should not be playing home games at Etihad and I believe that Etihad is a dangerous ground with regards to a high risk of leg/knee injuries, but since we are playing there, why would people not go? It's convenient to transport, relatively comfortable and to get the the heart of the matter, when we go to watch a game, we go to support our team, not to critique the ground and its amenities. If anyone has cause for complaint, I would say it's the players, not the supporters.

Having said that, I haven't attended a game there (my comments are garnered from other people and from seeing it on TV)... so what exactly is the problem from a spectator's point of view?

1. It doesn't have the MCC. For MCC members you have to pay GA or otherwise to go.

2. It's soul less. One big concrete mess. No members wing or southern stand or punt road end

3. The staff are consistently rude and incompetent

4. We often play North and the bulldogs there and their fans make the staff look pleasant

5. From the Eastern suburbs that extra 10 minutes on the train is a real pain - ok I'm precious but deal with it

6. The ticket prices and seating change at a whim and therefor for non regular attendees there is no familiarity

7. The food seems even more expensive and the beer even more watered down

And most of all

8. We never win there!

You are right above all it is the players/team. If we had a good record then I'm sure I'd go watch more games. If we were top 4 playing a top 8 Brisbane side then I'd be there. But right now I don't know how long it's been since we've won a game there and that's a huge turn off.

[Adam The God 29,331]

Well they didn't give us 2.7 million, in fact once you take out what we will pay them for the rubbish tanking fine they only gave us about 1 million. And Peter Jackson wasn't some hidden AFL man. He came recommended for sure but he wasn't gifted to us as a charity. So far they've given us about 1 mil and helped us get a board organised. They will then take away about 1 mil from us with this commercial disaster of a fixture.

Come on, mate. I love PJ, just like every other MFC person at the moment, but he's AFL appointed, with a tick from the MFC board. He's been sent here to help, certainly, but he's essentially working for the MFC and the AFL.

The fixture is being overhyped. The club will secure a major sponsor before the year is out. If our footy team plays like an AFL standard team, we will get MFC people returning to the games. Time to roll up the sleeves and stop whinging. Once we have a season that is AFL standard, we should expect a better draw. If the drew is still slanted against us, then I'd start complaining.

[RalphiusMaximus 6,012]

I don't understand this... sure, I agree that we should not be playing home games at Etihad and I believe that Etihad is a dangerous ground with regards to a high risk of leg/knee injuries, but since we are playing there, why would people not go? It's convenient to transport, relatively comfortable and to get the the heart of the matter, when we go to watch a game, we go to support our team, not to critique the ground and its amenities. If anyone has cause for complaint, I would say it's the players, not the supporters.

Having said that, I haven't attended a game there (my comments are garnered from other people and from seeing it on TV)... so what exactly is the problem from a spectator's point of view?

Its interesting! I have been once (and we won!) but just didn't like it! I don't know if it feels claustrophobic, or whether it just isn't our home (spiritual) ground but I won't go again. Anyone else feel the same?

I do find the hate for Etihad to be interesting. I've been to quite a few games there and quite frankly it's facilities are light years ahead of those at the MCG. In terms of watching a game, you have better food vendors, better public toilets, a roof that can be closed so you don't freeze to death, better access to PT and the seats are about the same. Why then do we not want to play there? Two reasons. Firstly, as has been mentioned, the playing surface is sub-standard and causes injuries. Secondly, we always get beaten, so as fans we naturally don't want to show up and see a loss.

[Demoneyes 562]

If you look at the chat on the AFL site, they have rated us 4th for cushy draw. Obviously this is focused more on the chances to win games than to make money, but it seems that from that perspective we have been given a gift. However we have been given far too many Sunday fixtures, including the totally dead time slot of Sunday Twilight, and no Friday fixtures at all. If they want to talk about equalisation n the competition then they need to give every team one home fixture on a Friday night and then reward the best performed sides with the extra six. As it stands, they gave Carlton (a mediocre side) four Friday home games while letting the teams that actually need to the financial assist to rot in purgatory. They can't even claim that the games are going to the better sides or the bigger crowds, because they have only given the reigning premiers one Friday home game as well. Meanwhile along with Carlton we see Geelong (who are fading) and Richmond (who might be on the rise) as the next best-loved with three each.

Basically, while we can't complain about the draw in terms of winnable games, we are being clearly shown that the AFL are going to keep on helping their special buddies and shafting the rest when it comes to the best timeslots to pull crowds and make a few dollars.

And hence no-one can complain about the equalisation money given to us and other clubs!

[Adam The God 29,331]

If you look at the chat on the AFL site, they have rated us 4th for cushy draw. Obviously this is focused more on the chances to win games than to make money, but it seems that from that perspective we have been given a gift. However we have been given far too many Sunday fixtures, including the totally dead time slot of Sunday Twilight, and no Friday fixtures at all. If they want to talk about equalisation n the competition then they need to give every team one home fixture on a Friday night and then reward the best performed sides with the extra six. As it stands, they gave Carlton (a mediocre side) four Friday home games while letting the teams that actually need to the financial assist to rot in purgatory. They can't even claim that the games are going to the better sides or the bigger crowds, because they have only given the reigning premiers one Friday home game as well. Meanwhile along with Carlton we see Geelong (who are fading) and Richmond (who might be on the rise) as the next best-loved with three each.

Basically, while we can't complain about the draw in terms of winnable games, we are being clearly shown that the AFL are going to keep on helping their special buddies and shafting the rest when it comes to the best timeslots to pull crowds and make a few dollars.

Of course, Carlton get the Friday night games. Bigger supporter base and a fringe finals side. We have neither of those draw cards at the moment. The fixturing makes sense from a broadcasters and advertisers perspective.

[Beetle 4,531]

Well they didn't give us 2.7 million, in fact once you take out what we will pay them for the rubbish tanking fine they only gave us about 1 million. And Peter Jackson wasn't some hidden AFL man. He came recommended for sure but he wasn't gifted to us as a charity. So far they've given us about 1 mil and helped us get a board organised. They will then take away about 1 mil from us with this commercial disaster of a fixture.

$2.7 mill minus $500k does not equal $1mill.

Forget the "recommendation" Jackson had plenty of better things to do than come to our basket case of a club.

What company in their right mind would give a poor performing employee the most important and crucial jobs within a company in order for it to make money? That's how I compare giving us prime time games against the bigger teams.

[Nasher 33,607]

Headline: Worst Team Gets Worst Time Slots For Games.

When we're a good - no - watchable side again and we're still getting draws that are commercially tough, then we might have some grounds for complaint.

[old dee 23,486]

Headline: Worst Team Gets Worst Time Slots For Games.

When we're a good - no - watchable side again and we're still getting draws that are commercially tough, then we might have some grounds for complaint.

Not sure why this is so hard for some to understand Nasher

[Sir Why You Little 36,607]

I will say it again. Do not worry about the commercial side of the fixture in 2014.

IT IS SECONDARY TO WINNING GAMES.

WE START WINNING & FANS WILL BEGIN TO WATCH US ON TV....and go to games

2014 must be seen as stage 1.

We are not ready for friday night.

We should be but the last 7 years failed dismally.

[Fat Tony 5,074]

The OP is right. In the age of free agency, the AFL is incredibly short sighted in continually giving poor sides easy, but uncommercial fixtures. The current plan will just see the poor clubs continue to decline and widen the gap.

[titan_uranus 24,578]

That's much better than a crowd of 15,000 and writing a cheque to play the game.

I want a draw that is both fair in terms of football and commercially.

At the moment the 5 teams we play twice are GWS, Bulldogs, West Coast from the bottom 6 and North and Port for the other teams. No problems with the first 3 but then the other 2 are 2 of the lowest drawing teams around.

Of the top 8 teams we play home games against Freo (2nd) and Geel + Syd (3rd and 4th) and Coll (8th) yet play away games against Carlton, Richmond and Essendon. (5, 7, 9). Explain how that is helping us win games?

From the bottom 8 we play away to Adelaide and St Kilda, 2 teams that would help with crowds, and then home against the 2 Queensland sides. That may well be the AFL's way of giving us a shot at winning games. But to mitigate it they put the Brisbane game at Etihad.

Then we also get stuff all prime time and not even one token away game on a Friday night. We get 2 home games on Saturday night channel 7 but they go with Sydney and the dogs? Hardly making it an attractive game for neutrals. I get the Sydney one with the Roos angle but the dogs one will likely be a turn off after quarter time for everyone watching affair anyway.

We start winning and the crowds will stay strong and we are a shot to make enough out of the gate plus the NT trips to keep the bottom line in tact. I just worry about how big a hole we will be in if we haven't got 2 or 3 wins by halfway through the season.

If you look at the chat on the AFL site, they have rated us 4th for cushy draw. Obviously this is focused more on the chances to win games than to make money, but it seems that from that perspective we have been given a gift. However we have been given far too many Sunday fixtures, including the totally dead time slot of Sunday Twilight, and no Friday fixtures at all. If they want to talk about equalisation n the competition then they need to give every team one home fixture on a Friday night and then reward the best performed sides with the extra six. As it stands, they gave Carlton (a mediocre side) four Friday home games while letting the teams that actually need to the financial assist to rot in purgatory. They can't even claim that the games are going to the better sides or the bigger crowds, because they have only given the reigning premiers one Friday home game as well. Meanwhile along with Carlton we see Geelong (who are fading) and Richmond (who might be on the rise) as the next best-loved with three each.

Basically, while we can't complain about the draw in terms of winnable games, we are being clearly shown that the AFL are going to keep on helping their special buddies and shafting the rest when it comes to the best timeslots to pull crowds and make a few dollars.

It really isn't that difficult to understand what is going on. We are a basket case. No one wants to see us play. Not at the ground, not on TV. No one wants the game against Melbourne, they want to skip it and move on to real football.

Until we lift ourselves up from the doldrums and begin acting like an actual AFL club, we are going to be put into the lesser timeslots. Why? Someone's got to play them, and it's both irrational and unfair to the successful clubs to be putting them in repeated low-drawing timeslots. It's also unfair to Channel 7, who pays the AFL a lot of money; money which ends up in our hands because we needed a handout.

If you don't like it, unfortunately you have to learn to accept it. No MFC supporter enjoys us being removed from prime time, but that is the reality of the MFC right now. In a few years, if we start winning games and becoming a viable opponent to sides again, then this will change.

The OP is right. In the age of free agency, the AFL is incredibly short sighted in continually giving poor sides easy, but uncommercial fixtures. The current plan will just see the poor clubs continue to decline and widen the gap.

I'd argue what you seem to want from the AFL would be short sighted.

Long term, the best thing for the AFL is for all 18 clubs to be financially strong with big supporter bases. Giving us a Friday night game in 2014 doesn't do a lot for us in terms of reaching that goal. Giving us a platform from which we can win some games, get some supporters back, get our brand improved, stop being smashed, and generally lose the 'impediment' tag, is a much surer bet to making us a better long term side.

Edited October 31, 2013 by titan_uranus

[Biffen 12,812]

All the worlds a stage. We are not even players.

[Macca 16,604]

Do we not want our club to have a fair chance? Where does it say in the rules that the big clubs must be advantaged to make a truckload more money than the smaller clubs? If it becomes a survival of the fittest, eventually certain clubs will come under the microscope. The gap between the big clubs and the smaller clubs will eventually reach a tipping point. It stands to reason. Whilst we're continuing to get handouts, we'll survive. But for how long?

I can see the club needing to sell off more games interstate if this keeps up. Home games against the Eagles, Suns, Swans, Dogs, North, Lions and the Giants would only attract poor to average crowds even if we were travelling well. That leaves the Pies game and maybe the Geelong game. Like last year, we have 7 "home" games against interstate clubs (it was 6 in 2012 and 7 in 2011)

Any home game where you're not making at least $300,000 could be construed as a loss. Take out the Queens birthday game and it would be a complete financial disaster. As it is, it's far from ideal.

If the AFL truly wants us to stand on our own 2 feet, they'd give us a leg up with 4 or 5 home games (every year) against the bigger drawing Victorian clubs. But we get the opposite - it's as if they want us to get into a financial mess.

I'm not making any references to prime time TV games - that's a separate issue and a Channel 7 decision (we have no say in that area but our governing body is not helping us in the other main area of the fixture - big revenue drawing games)

Good teams win games no matter who they play. Another soft draw is really not in our best interests. We might get a couple more wins against the weaker teams but where's the satisfaction in that? Sure, we need wins, but we need to balance the books as well.

The manic desire of the AFL to maximise crowds, gate revenue's and TV viewers comes at a price. The salary cap and the draft was meant to "equalise" things. Those 2 areas are being whittled away at in the whole scheme of things.

Edited October 31, 2013 by Macca

[jumbo returns 6,703]

Do we not want our club to have a fair chance? Where does it say in the rules that the big clubs must be advantaged to make a truckload more money than the smaller clubs? If it becomes a survival of the fittest, eventually certain clubs will come under the microscope. The gap between the big clubs and the smaller clubs will eventually reach a tipping point. It stands to reason. Whilst we're continuing to get handouts, we'll survive. But for how long?

I can see the club needing to sell off more games interstate if this keeps up. Home games against the Eagles, Suns, Swans, Dogs, North, Lions and the Giants would only attract poor to average crowds even if we were travelling well. That leaves the Pies game and maybe the Geelong game. Like last year, we have 7 "home" games against interstate clubs (it was 6 in 2012 and 7 in 2011)

Any home game where you're not making at least $300,000 could be construed as a loss. Take out the Queens birthday game and it would be a complete financial disaster. As it is, it's far from ideal.

If the AFL truly wants us to stand on our own 2 feet, they'd give us a leg up with 4 or 5 home games (every year) against the bigger drawing Victorian clubs. But we get the opposite - it's as if they want us to get into a financial mess.

I'm not making any references to prime time TV games - that's a separate issue and a Channel 7 decision (we have no say in that area but our governing body is not helping us in the other main area of the fixture - big revenue drawing games)

Good teams win games no matter who they play. Another soft draw is really not in our best interests. We might get a couple more wins against the weaker teams but where's the satisfaction in that? Sure, we need wins, but we need to balance the books as well.

The manic desire of the AFL to maximise crowds, gate revenue's and TV viewers comes at a price. The salary cap and the draft was meant to "equalise" things. Those 2 areas are being whittled away at in the whole scheme of things.

We won't get the good stuff until we get good. Simple as that. We're paying for seven years of shite....seven years!

How you travelling, Macca? I hope all is well?

[Macca 16,604]

An ideal fixture could be as follows ...

Home games against Victorian clubs at the MCG - Collingwood, Carlton*, Essendon*, Richmond*, Hawthorn*, Geelong, St Kilda*

Home games against interstate clubs at the MCG - Sydney, Brisbane

Home games in Darwin/Alice Springs - Port Adelaide and Fremantle

If we got that fixture just once, the extra revenue would be in the millions of dollars. Multiply that by 5 years and we're talking 10-15 million dollars (at least)

Back in the day, we always got this sort of fixture. Since the advent of all the interstate clubs coming into the comp, it's as if we've been designated to play many of our home fixtures against them. This is a real truth. Just go back over any fixture in the last how many years.

* We don't play any of these teams as a home fixture next season.

[Je Roos Salem 661]

I agree, surely at least every second year we can be guaranteed home games against those clubs? From memory, we've played Essendon once at home since 2005. I'm thankful we're finally playing Geelong at the G, but I certainly wish we had more than 1 Saturday afternoon home game. Some pretty ugly fixtures for us (Though surprising we have 3 Saturday night FTA games early in the season).

[Sir Why You Little 36,607]

An ideal fixture could be as follows ...

Home games against Victorian clubs at the MCG - Collingwood, Carlton*, Essendon*, Richmond*, Hawthorn*, Geelong, St Kilda*

Home games against interstate clubs at the MCG - Sydney, Brisbane

Home games in Darwin/Alice Springs - Port Adelaide and Fremantle

If we got that fixture just once, the extra revenue would be in the millions of dollars. Multiply that by 5 years and we're talking 10-15 million dollars (at least)

Back in the day, we always got this sort of fixture. Since the advent of all the interstate clubs coming into the comp, it's as if we've been designated to play many of our home fixtures against them. This is a real truth. Just go back over any fixture in the last how many years.

* We don't play any of these teams as a home fixture next season.

You are right Macca. But to get close to that fixture the club has to play good footy and win games.

We are still to get there.

In Roos i have faith.

[Little Goffy 13,981]

Hey, as a bottom team we've been given a draw that matches us predominantly against other lower ranked teams, that's fair enough.

It is of course, just a coincidence that the teams with the largest supporter bases and the greatest financial resources are all in the top half of the ladder...

JUST. A. COINCIDENCE.

That said, while I understand the AFL's reasoning for keeping the friday and saturday night games mostly for the 'high-demand' games based on a magic equation of 'current momentum X baseline appeal' of the teams competing, it kind of makes a mockery of things like the equalisation fund.

It is time the AFL made it explicit - some clubs miss out financially in the process of the AFL maximising the overall income from the most lucrative game times, and as such the equalisatoin fund should provide a direct compensation for that which the low-status clubs can use to actively promote their club, mobilise existing supports and attract new ones.

[Macca 16,604]

We won't get the good stuff until we get good. Simple as that. We're paying for seven years of shite....seven years!

How you travelling, Macca? I hope all is well?

Never been better JR.

The point of my post was that many other clubs are getting a real helping hand with regards to their fixture. We're getting stuff all. I get your point that we're a poorly performed club but I see this as a purely financial issue (not based on how good a team we are) Saturday or Sunday arvo games against big drawing teams is what the issue is.

It's the only organised League in the World where it happens. Even Crystal Palace get to play home games against all the big clubs. The fixture is a joke and we're starting off way behind the 8 ball and we're still in October.

If you were the CEO you'd be extremely concerned about where the money is going to come from. As I previously stated, if we're going to continually get handouts, we'll survive. But it's far from an ideal way to run a footy club.

How about Collingwood getting our type of "draw" for the next 15 years (and we'll have their "draw")

That's fair.

Once again, the above comments are not in relation to prime time TV games. We'll have to be a good team to get those games (although we never got a lot of prime time TV games even when we were playing finals - IIRC!)

[DeeSpencer 24,695]

Come on, mate. I love PJ, just like every other MFC person at the moment, but he's AFL appointed, with a tick from the MFC board. He's been sent here to help, certainly, but he's essentially working for the MFC and the AFL.

The fixture is being overhyped. The club will secure a major sponsor before the year is out. If our footy team plays like an AFL standard team, we will get MFC people returning to the games. Time to roll up the sleeves and stop whinging. Once we have a season that is AFL standard, we should expect a better draw. If the drew is still slanted against us, then I'd start complaining.

Yeah he's AFL appointed but it's not like they are paying his bill directly and forced him to come work for us. They simple identified him for the challenge and he accepted it.

The AFL got nearly 1 billion for 5 years of TV rights. Throw in their own sponsorship's and endorsements that are multiple, plus radio and other media rights and their share of the game receipts and we are looking at an orginasation that must bring in nearly 250 mil per year right?

And it's all based on 18 teams playing 9 matches a week right. That's there product. So I understand they dont want to dilute the big matches but surely you should give each team an opportunity to bring in a share of money as well so they can stay strong by themselves.

To be honest I'm ready to give Queens Birthday the flick. It seems to be the AFL's response when anyone questions our commercial fairness. And they have been holding it over our head whenever they need to as well. I always here that the Dees have retained QBday. Yet I never hear Coll and Ess have retained ANZAC day. It's an insult to the loyal demon fans who turn up every year.

I just hope we have that good season next year otherwise we will be looking at a big debt blow out. PJ has already cut back a number of redundant positions at the club but he can't cut back much more I wouldn't think. And we are spending 1 mil more per year on our senior coach. I don't want supporters to be asked to dig into their pockets again whilst the AFL continue to rake in such huge profits and then charitably offer us not much over 1 mil relief funding all dependent on agreeing with them overseeing the club.

[Earl Hood 6,057]

Hey, as a bottom team we've been given a draw that matches us predominantly against other lower ranked teams, that's fair enough.

It is of course, just a coincidence that the teams with the largest supporter bases and the greatest financial resources are all in the top half of the ladder...

JUST. A. COINCIDENCE.

That said, while I understand the AFL's reasoning for keeping the friday and saturday night games mostly for the 'high-demand' games based on a magic equation of 'current momentum X baseline appeal' of the teams competing, it kind of makes a mockery of things like the equalisation fund.

It is time the AFL made it explicit - some clubs miss out financially in the process of the AFL maximising the overall income from the most lucrative game times, and as such the equalisatoin fund should provide a direct compensation for that which the low-status clubs can use to actively promote their club, mobilise existing supports and attract new ones.

I agree it is time there was an open and frank discussion about equalisation and all the variables involved. The AFLmmaximises income through TV rights payments which is based on maximising the hours of content available to free to air at prime time, Fox TV and Telstra, etc. that means some teams have to fill in the less popular times, Sunday twighlights, Mothers Day etc.

if these off peak times were shared around all would be fair but we know they aren't. The big teams get the peak playing times which helps their corporate incomes and marketing exposure. The smaller teams take up most of the off peak playing times for less exposure and income. There should be a formula developed to recompense the minnows for this reality but don't hold your breath waiting for this admission of reality any time soon.

[Dr. Gonzo 23,700]

A home game against Brisbane at Etihell is not helping at all either! What percentage of people on here actually go to this ground?

When Melbourne's playing or in general? Anyone who won't go to a ground in the middle of the city to support their club because they dislike the stadium are pathetic and can't count themselves as true supporters.

[Dr. Gonzo 23,700]

If you look at the chat on the AFL site, they have rated us 4th for cushy draw. Obviously this is focused more on the chances to win games than to make money, but it seems that from that perspective we have been given a gift. However we have been given far too many Sunday fixtures, including the totally dead time slot of Sunday Twilight, and no Friday fixtures at all. If they want to talk about equalisation n the competition then they need to give every team one home fixture on a Friday night and then reward the best performed sides with the extra six. As it stands, they gave Carlton (a mediocre side) four Friday home games while letting the teams that actually need to the financial assist to rot in purgatory. They can't even claim that the games are going to the better sides or the bigger crowds, because they have only given the reigning premiers one Friday home game as well. Meanwhile along with Carlton we see Geelong (who are fading) and Richmond (who might be on the rise) as the next best-loved with three each.

Basically, while we can't complain about the draw in terms of winnable games, we are being clearly shown that the AFL are going to keep on helping their special buddies and shafting the rest when it comes to the best timeslots to pull crowds and make a few dollars.

That's more Channel 7's call than the AFL's though - they want Carlton, Essendon & Collingwood on prime time because they know they will draw regardless of their performance. The $1b+ rights deal comes at a price.

[Adam The God 29,331]

Yeah he's AFL appointed but it's not like they are paying his bill directly and forced him to come work for us. They simple identified him for the challenge and he accepted it.

The AFL got nearly 1 billion for 5 years of TV rights. Throw in their own sponsorship's and endorsements that are multiple, plus radio and other media rights and their share of the game receipts and we are looking at an orginasation that must bring in nearly 250 mil per year right?

And it's all based on 18 teams playing 9 matches a week right. That's there product. So I understand they dont want to dilute the big matches but surely you should give each team an opportunity to bring in a share of money as well so they can stay strong by themselves.

To be honest I'm ready to give Queens Birthday the flick. It seems to be the AFL's response when anyone questions our commercial fairness. And they have been holding it over our head whenever they need to as well. I always here that the Dees have retained QBday. Yet I never hear Coll and Ess have retained ANZAC day. It's an insult to the loyal demon fans who turn up every year.

I just hope we have that good season next year otherwise we will be looking at a big debt blow out. PJ has already cut back a number of redundant positions at the club but he can't cut back much more I wouldn't think. And we are spending 1 mil more per year on our senior coach. I don't want supporters to be asked to dig into their pockets again whilst the AFL continue to rake in such huge profits and then charitably offer us not much over 1 mil relief funding all dependent on agreeing with them overseeing the club.

I think you'll see more financial assistance from the AFL, if we struggle to perform again. I think we'll get our act together and become competitive though. At least I hope so.

I'm completely with you on the fact that AFL "equalisation" is a farce. I just refute the claim that 'the AFL are trying to kill Melbourne' and that our draw next year will in fact do that. Only our performances will truly kill us. If we manage to field a proper football team in the coming two to three years, we've got a chance to increase our commercial viability and pick ourselves up off the floor. As WYL said, we need to win games. If we do, we'll be fine.