Bombers scandal: charged, <redacted> and <infracted>

[daisycutter 29,429]

When will they settle that one?

who knows, maybe it's part of their strange tactical manoeuvres

[Moonshadow 17,575]

and paying out jaques (again)

then the players can sue

Ok, he's then worth $700mill

[SaberFang 7,151]

Why would Little put up his own money?

[daisycutter 29,429]

Ok, he's then worth $700mill

assuming he picks up all the tabs

if the board dump him i'll bet his money dries up

[Jesse Christ 2,884]

Which means they have to keep Little until this saga is over, get him to pay the bills and then move him on. What a position to be in lol.

Imagine if he refused to use his personal wealth to fund this ego exercise anyway. Would be hilarious

[SaberFang 7,151]

You'd think twice about signing up for the membership knowing your money is just being [censored] down the toilet to some lawyer in a doomed court appeal.

[John Crow Batty 8,816]

Most of Little's worth is just on paper. What is important is his liquid assets like cash. Most of his wealth is tied up in his company's value and not easy or practical to convert to liquid assets. And he and his company could also be carrying substantial debts. Alan Bond says hello. No doubt he has a few quid lying around but I'll bet he may have to forgo a hypothetical 50 metre yacht purchase to finance his current hobby. As the saying goes, a yacht is a hole in the water one pours money into and not much different to what he is doing now.

[deanox 9,768]

If they are doing it right, Essendon will have a registered charity to fund the football department or similar, that donations too are tax deductible. Melbourne has a similar "Foundation".

Little will dump money into that and get the tax break. The club will pay the legal costs itself but he will finance the footy dept.

Alternatively, the legal team will be partially employed by toll holdings, rather than the club.

[Qwerty30 196]

If they are doing it right, Essendon will have a registered charity to fund the football department or similar, that donations too are tax deductible. Melbourne has a similar "Foundation".

Little will dump money into that and get the tax break. The club will pay the legal costs itself but he will finance the footy dept.

Alternatively, the legal team will be partially employed by toll holdings, rather than the club.

You really think the ATO would fall for that? Think again.

I think there is some brave assumptions that Essendon can float along on Little's deep pockets. He may have given generously but that is mot unusual that wealthy passionate AFL Chairmen have done this. But he isn't a bottomless pit for the Club despite his wealth.

It will be interesting to see the EFC 2014 accounts which should identify how much this terrible saga has cost the club and what significant monies have come from benefactors like a Little.

And for the record Little retired from Toll Holdings in January 2012. He is now involved in a range of smaller commercial, sporting and philanthropic interests. It's laughable posters keep claiming that Toll Holdings will somehow foot some or all of the bill. They certainly won't.

[Qwerty30 196]

Most of Little's worth is just on paper. What is important is his liquid assets like cash. Most of his wealth is tied up in his company's value and not easy or practical to convert to liquid assets. And he and his company could also be carrying substantial debts. Alan Bond says hello. No doubt he has a few quid lying around but I'll bet he may have to forgo a hypothetical 50 metre yacht purchase to finance his current hobby. As the saying goes, a yacht is a hole in the water one pours money into and not much different to what he is doing now.

Nothing like speculating without the facts.

The Age cited his net worth at $880 million in 2013. Given the strength of equity and property markets over the past 12 months, he may be worth even more. I'm sure he could cover a commitment to EFC without breaking the bank.

Allan Bond???? ... The expensive yacht ... LOL.

[DemonOX 8,721]

I really don't care about this anymore tbh.

I'm just so glad it ain't our club for once.

[monoccular 17,345]

You really think the ATO would fall for that? Think again.

I think there is some brave assumptions that Essendon can float along on Little's deep pockets. He may have given generously but that is mot unusual that wealthy passionate AFL Chairmen have done this. But he isn't a bottomless pit for the Club despite his wealth.

It will be interesting to see the EFC 2014 accounts which should identify how much this terrible saga has cost the club and what significant monies have come from benefactors like a Little.

And for the record Little retired from Toll Holdings in January 2012. He is now involved in a range of smaller commercial, sporting and philanthropic interests*. It's laughable posters keep claiming that Toll Holdings will somehow foot some or all of the bill. They certainly won't.

*like the Barristers' benevolent fund perhaps??

[bing181 9,111]

A few leaks in the dam wall perhaps:

New push to dump James Hird from Essendon could see him sacked before Christmas

As a view into how far off in Alice-in-Wonderland the Essendon Board and admin are, I particularly liked:

"One of the 34 players issued a show cause notice told the Sunday Herald Sun that he was led to believe that the club would be certain to win its Federal Court case against ASADA and the notices would be set aside permanently."

[Cards13 9,117]

"One of the 34 players issued a show cause notice told the Sunday Herald Sun that he was led to believe that the club would be certain to win its Federal Court case against ASADA and the notices would be set aside permanently."

So said their brilliant legal lecturer Martin Hardie.

Players get your own legal advise and bill it back to the club, for goodness sake stop listening to the club. Who's best interest do they have at heart mr player?

[Cards13 9,117]

Essendon clean bowled needs new stance

The cricket analogy is back.

[sue 9,046]

This statement attributed to an Essendon player in the HUN article is simply amazing:

• The player said he had “no idea, none” that even if Essendon were successful in the Federal Court ASADA could launch a fresh investigation and re-gather the evidence needed for the issuing of show cause notices.

Everyone with a passing interest in the case knew that was touted as a strong possibility. It seems the Essendon players have been cocooned in a media-free zone and totally under the mind control of the club.

[Whispering_Jack 29,323]

Morning round up:-

Robbo:Dons and Hird to appeal

Bombersface a tough fight to appeal say lawyers

New push to dump James Hird from Essendon could see him sacked before Christmas

ASADA determined to go after players

And sage advice from former ASADA CEO via twitter -

@ringsau: These Essendon players need to start looking out for themselves.

Relying on others hasn't proven terribly successful to date I am afraid.

[Jarka 767]

What a great day for football that was

[Nasher 33,607]

As much as I enjoy seeing Essendon, Hird and Little get flogged, and would love to see them stuck on the bottom of the ladder and broke for a few years, I can't disconnect that from the players who have been completely and utterly screwed over here. Maybe fatherhood has done something to me but I always find myself looking at it through the eyes of a parent, and if it were one of my sons at the footy club I'd be furious beyond belief at the contempt in which these egomaniacs are treating their players with. They got completely pilloried in the court and they're still continuing with their denial tactics, while the future of a large group of their players are still at risk.

The latest player comments show just how brainwashed these blokes have been by the EFC.

[Jarka 767]

As much as I enjoy seeing Essendon, Hird and Little get flogged, and would love to see them stuck on the bottom of the ladder and broke for a few years, I can't disconnect that from the players who have been completely and utterly screwed over here. Maybe fatherhood has done something to me but I always find myself looking at it through the eyes of a parent, and if it were one of my sons at the footy club I'd be furious beyond belief at the contempt in which these egomaniacs are treating their players with. They got completely pilloried in the court and they're still continuing with their denial tactics, while the future of a large group of their players are still at risk.

The latest player comments show just how brainwashed these blokes have been by the EFC.

I don't buy that for a second, you just have to look at the responses from players of other clubs about what was happening to them. Off-site injections on that magnitude, and not one of them queried it with the players association.

[daisycutter 29,429]

If they are doing it right, Essendon will have a registered charity to fund the football department or similar, that donations too are tax deductible. Melbourne has a similar "Foundation".

Little will dump money into that and get the tax break. The club will pay the legal costs itself but he will finance the footy dept.

Alternatively, the legal team will be partially employed by toll holdings, rather than the club.

doubt it. toll is a public company. little is not ceo or even on the board

these days he's just a shareholder

[Lucifers Hero 39,030]

Toll is still a major sponsor but that may go if players are suspended and Little and Hird are dumped.

I'm still gobsmacked that Hird has gone to the USA for more business training and left a sh.. storm in his wake, just before trade period. Maybe he knows he is gone and just setting himself up for life after AFL. Inexplicable otherwise.

[Cards13 9,117]

As much as I enjoy seeing Essendon, Hird and Little get flogged, and would love to see them stuck on the bottom of the ladder and broke for a few years, I can't disconnect that from the players who have been completely and utterly screwed over here. Maybe fatherhood has done something to me but I always find myself looking at it through the eyes of a parent, and if it were one of my sons at the footy club I'd be furious beyond belief at the contempt in which these egomaniacs are treating their players with. They got completely pilloried in the court and they're still continuing with their denial tactics, while the future of a large group of their players are still at risk.

The latest player comments show just how brainwashed these blokes have been by the EFC.

Maybe I'm being to harsh but these guys ahould have/need to start taking ownership of their lives and situations and not rely on the club that has "put them" in this situation. The code the players sign up to puts the onus on them, they need to take charge of this as much as they can from here on.

[jnrmac 19,928]

While the club's strategy appears to be delay as long as possible to turn the list over, it is a double edged sword in that the more players that leave (currently around 13?) the more players that are likely to break ranks and sue for themselves.

It is actually quite staggering that they have held together for so long. If it was my livelihood and health affected I would be going at them with all guns blazing. Loss of earnings, delayed health issues, little chance of being picked up by another club etc etc.

The players and the club are getting pizpoor advice and it has come back to slap them in the face. Call it Kool Aid or whatever the Ryder defection I am hoping is the first of many.

There was even a quote in the paper from a current player saying he was unaware ASADA could re-issue notices if they needed to . I mean FMD don't these guys read papers even? Are they in such a bibble that they believe everything St James and Little sprout?

They are going down in flames and actually I am quite happy. Any skerrick of sympathy I had for the players went out the window a long time ago. They are being plain stupid, ignorant and ill-advised.

[Whispering_Jack 29,323]

As much as I enjoy seeing Essendon, Hird and Little get flogged, and would love to see them stuck on the bottom of the ladder and broke for a few years, I can't disconnect that from the players who have been completely and utterly screwed over here. Maybe fatherhood has done something to me but I always find myself looking at it through the eyes of a parent, and if it were one of my sons at the footy club I'd be furious beyond belief at the contempt in which these egomaniacs are treating their players with. They got completely pilloried in the court and they're still continuing with their denial tactics, while the future of a large group of their players are still at risk.

The latest player comments show just how brainwashed these blokes have been by the EFC.

The sympathy for the players is understandable. Essendon certainly maintained a strong hold on its players who were prepared to believe much of the club's internal spin up until now.

But the story of the battle against doping is that it is aimed to prevent athletes from competing either wittingly or unwittingly with the aid of prohibited substances that might have entered their system. As a consequence, the rules have been devised to deal with an environment where some sports scientists attempt to place themselves one step ahead of the law to avoid detection. The athlete might well be "innocent" in terms of direct knowledge but can still be found guilty of offending against the WADA Code. That's why everything starts with education and the fact that in the AFL, the players are regularly briefed about their obligations in regard to what is ingested into their bodies.

It still amazes me that an entire list of AFL footballers were given consent/waiver forms and apparently, nobody questioned why their signatures were required if they were being injected only with vitamins that are legal substances? Why were waiver/consent forms necessary if everything was above board?

After all of the information they received as AFL players (which players in lesser competitions did not) how is it possible that they asked no questions of the club, the player's association, their leadership group, their managers, parents/families or each other?

No doubt they were influenced by Hird and/or others and it would have been a difficult ask for the younger ones in particular, to go against the dictum of their coaches. No doubt Hird and Robinson believed the snake oil sales pitch that the programme was on the right side of the line when it came to its legality under the WADA Code but the seller stuffed up with TB4 as much he gambled foolishly with AOD9604 (and should not have been allowed to get away with that one either).

I have no doubt that the players have been treated with contempt by their club but they are by no means innocent.

They need to realise now (as Paddy Ryder has done) that they have been led by the nose down a pretty destructive path. They can do something about it here and now. Respond truthfully to the show cause notices and there's a chance that some might not receive infraction notices and a good chance that others will get reasonable deals from ASADA and possibly be back playing by mid 2015. Those who don't, face two years out.