Training - Tuesday 26th March, 2013

[stevethemanjordan 6,952]

I've noted that quite a few long kickers were on the skinny side... Robert Flower, Michael Tuck etc. I think this is the result of timing/co-ordination and extension (having a longer follow through). So, long kicking is not solely the demain of strong quads, though I acknowledge this can be a plus.

Understood, however Jones was never a long and penetrating kick from the start of his playing days, so I don't see that it's a technique change. It's leg strength.

[stevethemanjordan 6,952]

You can get better at kicking if you think you need to get better at kicking. I have seen it with my own two eyes up here in Canberra. The ones prepared to do the work and humble enough to listen have become excellent kicks.

Decision making under pressure is where we fall down. That is harder to fix and involves training and confidence, but ultimately requires you to play the game to get better.

Maybe if you are playing kick to kick rpfc. There is no way that players drastically change their kicking technique when on the run during an AFL game.

Yes decision making falls down under pressure. So does incorrect technique.

[dee-luded 2,959]

Went down for a brief period today, I was there for about 30 minutes towards the end. They finished as I was walking over the Yarra bridge.

I will be surprised if T Mac does not play on Sunday.

He was in everything till I left and looked good.

Dawes did not seemed to be troubled by any injury.

Trengove and Clark we off by the time I got there.

I doubt Trengove will play on that basis.

It Watts is not the best kick in our team I will eat my hat.

Every kick I saw went straight to someone.

It did not matter if it was short , long or for a player to run on to.

If only about ten others were that good.

Oh G, I hope it's not a Terry Toweling...

I'm looking forward to seeing the new team in its entirety.

Thanks for your news OD, its great to hear about TMac & Dawes....

I don't mind if Trenners & Clarke play again @ Casey, to get them a bit more match conditioned. We want them coming in with some match condition, & some touch & confidence.

Lets not throw them to the wolves underdone... a good recipe to set the year badly for them.

[binman 42,010]

Maybe if you are playing kick to kick rpfc. There is no way that players drastically change their kicking technique when on the run during an AFL game.

Yes decision making falls down under pressure. So does incorrect technique.

Golf swings are a good analogy. The better the technique the better it stands up under pressure. I'd also add that a player with a poor technique is also perhaps more likely to make what appear to be bad decisions as there will be scenarios where they know what the right kick should be but are not confident to execute the kick and take another option.

[rpfc 28,052]

Maybe if you are playing kick to kick rpfc. There is no way that players drastically change their kicking technique when on the run during an AFL game.

Yes decision making falls down under pressure. So does incorrect technique.

I have come across some pretty terrible kicks and kicking styles over the last few years and you can improve yourself if you are ready to do the work.

I will also say that 'poor kicking techniques' are occasionally misdiagnosed. Sometimes blokes are not going for the right option, or are trying to do more than their ability will allow.

[old dee 23,505]

Oh G, I hope it's not a Terry Toweling...

I'm looking forward to seeing the new team in its entirety.

Thanks for your news OD, its great to hear about TMac & Dawes....

I don't mind if Trenners & Clarke play again @ Casey, to get them a bit more match conditioned. We want them coming in with some match condition, & some touch & confidence.

Lets not throw them to the wolves underdone... a good recipe to set the year badly for them.

My Guess is Clark to play and Trengove to miss Dee-luded.

[old55 22,844]

However as people say, McKenzie was picked up for a

reason. Attitude and work ethic. Which is why we see him fly in at the

contest so often. Bail got a spot on a list because of his aerobic

ability. He is a great runner. We have had far too many on our list who

have had one or two standout attributes but kicking has been one of

their weaknesses. We need to start picking up kids that are more well

rounded players and natural sportsmen.

When you get a player with

natural ability and coordination come in to your club along with

several other strong attributes, you know you have a star on your hands.

Cotchin is my favourite player to watch because he fits that

description to a tee. He would beat Mckenzie in a contested scenario,

burn him in a flash and deliver to the [censored] of reiwoldt before we knew

what had happened. Same with Cyril.

Rohan was pick 64, Jordie was a rookie and Cotchin was pick 2.

[old dee 23,505]

I have come across some pretty terrible kicks and kicking styles over the last few years and you can improve yourself if you are ready to do the work.

I will also say that 'poor kicking techniques' are occasionally misdiagnosed. Sometimes blokes are not going for the right option, or are trying to do more than their ability will allow.

I have this feeling I have seen a fair few of those around the MFC over the last six years rpfc

[old dee 23,505]

Rohan was pick 64, Jordie was a rookie and Cotchin was pick 2.

That about covers it Fifty-5

[DeeSpencer 24,790]

One thing is for certain is if the players all work much much harder than before and follow the game plan the kicking will at least appear to be improved. With more time and space and a great area to kick into its much easier to nail a good kick.

You don't often complain about how bad the kicking was when you win.

Another thing with us is that poor handballing has been as much our down fall as poor kicking. If we start when the contested ball and handballing to someone in space then the kicking will improve.

2 main drills the guys have done many times I've seen them has been a match simulation aiming to get the ball out of defense and and also a set up and move the ball quickly from defense. The second drill needs a couple of well placed kicks to get the ball into the corridor then out wide before attacking. I'm glad our backline has been practising something more interesting than bombing it down the line. The question is come Sunday whether we will have the runners to use those attacking plays or will have to bomb down the line due to poor work ethic.

[stevethemanjordan 6,952]

I have come across some pretty terrible kicks and kicking styles over the last few years and you can improve yourself if you are ready to do the work.

I will also say that 'poor kicking techniques' are occasionally misdiagnosed. Sometimes blokes are not going for the right option, or are trying to do more than their ability will allow.

Well why is it that I see very little if any improvement with any AFL player that carries a bad technique?

The Nathan Jones is example as pointed out has nothing to do with technique.

As for players trying to do more than their 'ability' allows... The word ability could also be substituted for technique couldn't it? It could be that a player makes a bad decision because they do not have a good enough kick to hit a player they're intending to hit.

This could get confusing...

Rohan was pick 64, Jordie was a rookie and Cotchin was pick 2.

Not the point. I was talking about Cotchin as my favourite player to watch because of his set of attributes.

I believe we greatly underestimated or miscalculated the levels of some players kicking skills during the Bailey/Prendergast years.

Howe is someone who has a fluent technique but sometimes mistimes the ball. He is still a much better kick than Jordie and Bail and was a low draft pick.

Edited March 26, 2013 by stevethemanjordan

[Pennant St Dee 12,703]

In my view it was Jones' decision making that improved. He has always been able to hit targets, it's just he used to bomb it aimlessly a lot of the time. He has learnt to lower his eyes and now makes much better decisions when in possession.

Not a technique thing of you ask me. His technique is fine. Look at his set shots.

Also comes down to improved fitness and durance, which results in less fatigue. Kicks lack penetration and direction if you are physically tired, which also equates to poor decision making when fatigue kicks in

[Bitter but optimistic 22,066]

I would like you guys to recall Davie's first couple of years at senior level. He couldn't wouldn't kick the ball much over 30 metres. He then developed into a player who could kick long, powerfully and accurately to break lines. He then went to shite. However my point is was his kicking improved through coaching, strength or confidence? Can other players be developed equally?

[rpfc 28,052]

Well why is it that I see very little if any improvement with any AFL player that carries a bad technique?

The Nathan Jones is example as pointed out has nothing to do with technique.

As for players trying to do more than their 'ability' allows... The word ability could also be substituted for technique couldn't it? It could be that a player makes a bad decision because they do not have a good enough kick to hit a player they're intending to hit.

I was motioning more towards trying to hit targets they cannot, or should not hit.

And I agree about Jones. But he is a bloke that had trouble with decision making but was misdiagnosed as having a below average kick.

I have no doubt that we have some bad kicks on our team, but I am equally sure that our decision making (and what we have to kick to) exacerbates the kicking issue.

[Maldonboy38 6,379]

You may have noticed at training that part of the warm up is standing 15m apart and kicking from a standing position. Then move apart to 25m, and then to about 40 m.This is about ball drop and leg action technique. You can definitely alter your technique through repetitive new muscle-memory drills.

I agree about Davis, Bail, Nicho, Joel Mac have to work extra hard because their natural efficiency stats come from a poor base. Young Viney is another candidate.

However, I agree with a post above about natural hand-eye coordination. Hird was an outstanding kick and yet had one of those "both-hands-off the-ball-and-let-it-drop" kind of actions. His hand-eye coordination was exceptional.

If you want a training manual for a kicking action, look at Fevola, Barry Hall, Ablett snr and jnr, Leigh MAtthews, Carey, and of course Robbie.

[jnrmac 19,905]

You can get better at kicking if you think you need to get better at kicking. I have seen it with my own two eyes up here in Canberra. The ones prepared to do the work and humble enough to listen have become excellent kicks.

Decision making under pressure is where we fall down. That is harder to fix and involves training and confidence, but ultimately requires you to play the game to get better.

Neitz and Robbo were both average kicks who worked hard to improve. The results were fantastic.

Field kicking is usually about ball drop. High ball drops like Cam Bruce are very hit and miss.

The other style that is hit and miss are the Nathan Jones 'slam' the ball on the boot.

A low ball drop is the most successful. Strauss, Trapper and Judd are masters at it.....

[Tassie Devil 28]

I largely agree - however i would say that Jones increased the length of his kicks substantially, which is partly technique.

Understood, however Jones was never a long and penetrating kick from the start of his playing days, so I don't see that it's a technique change. It's leg strength.

Early in #2's career I saw him roost a 65m+ goal from beyond the centre circle at Bellerive while paying for Sandringham vs Tassie Devils (that was some time ago!). It was a game sealing goal. Distance has never been his problem as far as I'm concerned.

I have seen many kids improve their kicking - mostly through simple hard work. I believe it can be done if the player is prepared to put in the hard work.

While our new #7's dad wasn't the best kick it did improve in later years as a result of his willingness to work on it.

On the other hand, a few years ago I saw a former #48 (later #24) do a centimeter perfect pass to a former #7 (had a 'fit' wife and later became a Toige) - you can't teach that sort of kicking.

[angrydee 842]

Ben Johnson went from worst kick at the filth to the best in 3 seasons (when MN was there). In the early 70's I was a kicking coach at Port Melbourne, and with hard work and practice a number of blokes markedly improved their kicking.

[Ron Burgundy 8,584]

Understood, however Jones was never a long and penetrating kick from the start of his playing days, so I don't see that it's a technique change. It's leg strength.

From what I understand, it's not actually leg strength - hamstrings have more to do with it. And technique obviously.

[DeeSpencer 24,790]

The hard thing to understand is how guys from Ireland or who have never played the game get taught and end up good kicks whilst guys who have played their whole life but are bad kicks can't be made better. Classic example is Bartram but then again his degenerative knee issue at the end wouldn't of helped.

[hardtack 10,423]

My Guess is Clark to play and Trengove to miss Dee-luded.

I agree, and I hope but they may opt to play Sellar given his recent form (particularly on Port's Trengove) and give Clark another run at Casey so he's at close to full strength for the Essendon game.

[Nasher 33,607]

I agree, and I hope but they may opt to play Sellar given his recent form (particularly on Port's Trengove) and give Clark another run at Casey so he's at close to full strength for the Essendon game.

Good form and injuries notwithstanding, I'd be staggered if they deemed that Sellar was a better option than Clark. As far as I'm concerned if Clark is fit enough to play for Casey then he's fit enough to play for Melbourne.

[Nasher 33,607]

The hard thing to understand is how guys from Ireland or who have never played the game get taught and end up good kicks whilst guys who have played their whole life but are bad kicks can't be made better. Classic example is Bartram but then again his degenerative knee issue at the end wouldn't of helped.

Because the Irish players haven't been using the same dodgy kicking action since they were 5, presumably, so they have fewer ingrained bad habits to try and break.

[rjay 24,616]

I agree, and I hope but they may opt to play Sellar given his recent form (particularly on Port's Trengove) and give Clark another run at Casey so he's at close to full strength for the Essendon game.

I think they will play both Clark and Sellar. Clark is a definite going on what Neeld said on SEN this morning.

Clark got the rust out at Casey and is ready to go.

[rjay 24,616]

Because the Irish players haven't been using the same dodgy kicking action since they were 5, presumably, so they have fewer ingrained bad habits to try and break.

I think that would be pretty close to the mark.