Training - Monday 4th February, 2013

[rjay 25,012]

Watch him, even at training he is often half a second behind everyone else and he doesn't have the killer instinct to attack the ball.

Col certainly has the physical attributes but I've always thought it was peripheral vision, awareness and decision making that let him down. He's not a smart footballer but with Moloney gone it's probably not as big an issue, if he can get to enough ball he can cause damage.

[Satyriconhome 10,879]

Clint, think you need to alter the angle of your cap, it seems to be obscuring your vision too much, judging by your assessment of some of the players at training.....just a hint

Jose, I have now seen 'live' and in pictures at least six different white and blue teams, there is some thought given to it obviously, but I wouldn't read too much into it......most of us have 'locks' in certain positions and I am sure the Footy Dept does as well, but if they have a niggle or are not in form or not performing on the track from what i have seen of Neeld they won't play

Edited February 5, 2013 by Satyriconhome

[rjay 25,012]

Those were just two that sprung to mind, and one more than you asked Binman for. You implied that he'd had none. Some of the Watts bashing on this forum is ridiculous; the Dees are a better team when Watts is playing than when he isn't. Fact.

Watts was causing enough grief last year for opposition coaches to start playing a defensive forward on him. I think he will be a difficult match up this year and really step it up another notch.

[DeeSpencer 25,777]

Watts was causing enough grief last year for opposition coaches to start playing a defensive forward on him. I think he will be a difficult match up this year and really step it up another notch.

In what games? Every team has a defensive forward and therefore they need to play on someone and at times went to Watts, but I can't recall one game when Watts was causing grief to any opposition coach. He certainly wasn't with his 30 touch performance against Sydney when we lost by 100.

Watts needs to step it up just to cement his spot in the side. That's the truth.

[farmerwiz 60]

agree, has plenty to work on before becoming a good player.....

[drdrake 3,181]

Sylvia needs to aim to get 30 touches per game, he isn't a natural ball winner and isn't mentally quick enough to be, but he needs to get try to get the ball more if Melbourne are to improve.

Give me Col Sylvia getting the footy plus 20 times a game and I will take that. He usually gets most of his footy from Midfield pushing foward and his ball use would be in the top 3 if not the best at our club. Would love to see Col get the footy 20-25 times per match with half a dozen great games of + 30 touches with a couple of goals. The game against Hawthorn a few years back is still one of the best games I have seen any Melbourne player play for many many years, it is the last time I can remember a Melbourne player have so much dominance in a game, we need 3-6 like that every year from Col.

[Bossdog 2,002]

It just bewilders me how much Sylvia and Watts are criticised on these sites........Some want the No 1 pick to be as good as Johno Brown or Saint Nick by the age of 21,when he is playing in a crap side for the past 4 years.......Is it just that your expectations are too high?????.....How will J Patton go this year???....Are the expectations of him by the hand full of GWS supporters to high????

Has Kreuzer lived up to expectations in his, what sixth??, year.....and are Carlton supporters bagging him from year one???....Was he a bad pick...was Cotchin a better No 1???

I know we all want our players to be stars NOW,but history tells us it takes some years for this to evolve....

Lay off em and support your own players.....

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Sylvia is 27 and in his ninth year. Watts will be 22 when his fifth season of AFL starts. Both have provided little to date. And supporters are right to ask questions.

An important year for Watts as I hope he starts to blossom as part of a long career with MFC. Sylvia is WYSIWYG and he no longer lives off potential.

And FWIW, Cotchin is far better than Kruezer and there were a number of experts that had rated Cotchin ahead of Kruezer in the draft. IMO Kruezer is a bit a tease. Seemingly good skills for a big man. He doesnt strike me a first ruck and he does not impress me a key forward. Interesting to see how he goes this year. But for mine he has not delivered to date.

I think supporters in general have been patient. However there are a number of top picks in a year that dont make it. Morton at pick 4 didnt make it at MFC. I hope we do have a star in Watts. I dont hold my breath over Sylvia though.

[rjay 25,012]

In what games? Every team has a defensive forward and therefore they need to play on someone and at times went to Watts, but I can't recall one game when Watts was causing grief to any opposition coach. He certainly wasn't with his 30 touch performance against Sydney when we lost by 100.

Watts needs to step it up just to cement his spot in the side. That's the truth.

He was becoming the let out option because of his decision making and kicking skills. Opposition coaches saw this and worked to cut him out when we played them. It wasn't during a game it was pre game planning and the defensive forward was going to Watts.

[Moonshadow 17,676]

You've changed binman's basic premise.

He didn't say 'season'...he said most important player.

Ridiculous comment.

Errrr, I think you'll find he said most important this year. That would mean this season, would it not?

"ridiculous comment" actually refers what you wrote JR.

[cowboy_from_hell 2,390]

I wonder if some on here actually watch the games we play in or just read stats. We struggled to move the ball from one end to the other. When watts came back a lot of our ball movement came from his intercept mark and then his efficient disposal. I don't trust a lot of players with the ball in their hands but I do with Watts. If we can win some centre clearances which we couldnt last year watts can push up the ground and spoon feed our forwards all day with his sublime kicking.

[binman 43,212]

Binman, I'd like you to mention one game that JW has influenced.

What GTG said. As JB notes the game against Swans last year was terrific as it was in a team that was flogged and almost all of his team mates dropped their heads.. Playing well in a losing team is a trait i put a great deal of stock in.

I'd also add that demon fans would agree he did not have the size to be a big influence as a KPF and Bailey played him all over the shop. Even his most vocal critics would agree that once Neeld gave him a regular position he was far more influential as stats such as leading the league in intercepts (albeit over a 6 week period) suggest.

But in any case i wasn't talking about his previous form i was talking about the upcoming season. His ability to play on different sized forwards, his pace, his disposal skills, his vision and ability to read the play all add up to a dangerous - and yes potentially influential - package. He will play a similar role to Hodge, Fisher, Goddard etc and i believe be similarly effective. If he adds a bit of flair and takes the game on a bit he will also launch many an attack for us.

But we will see soon enough i look forward to revisiting this conversation.

[monoccular 17,444]

What GTG said. As JB notes the game against Swans last year was terrific as it was in a team that was flogged and almost all of his team mates dropped their heads.. Playing well in a losing team is a trait i put a great deal of stock in. ................

Exactly what we never saw in Moloney and all too rarely in Col, the latter in whom I am (maybe) silly enough to still believe.

Edited February 5, 2013 by monoccular

[La Dee-vina Comedia 16,816]

It's just the side they are on at that moment in that drill. They will switch multiple times during training for the different drills. It always changes and I don't think there is really a pecking order involved. For instance, the training session I was able to get to had a full ground drill running with what looked like our first choice backline and Fitzpatrick as the full forward (who marked and goaled quite a few times during the exercise).

A question for those that go to training (I can't get there and I appreciate all the information our watchers provide). When the team is practising "a full ground drill running with what looked like our first choice backline", who plays on those defenders? The "first choice forward line"? Or are players switching all the time so you can't really tell.

I would have thought for the backline to be under the most pressure when practising, the best forwards should be opposed to them. Conversely, using the example given above, does this mean Fitzpatrick was playing full forward on, say, Troy Davis?

[jumbo returns 6,741]

What GTG said. As JB notes the game against Swans last year was terrific as it was in a team that was flogged and almost all of his team mates dropped their heads.. Playing well in a losing team is a trait i put a great deal of stock in.

I'd also add that demon fans would agree he did not have the size to be a big influence as a KPF and Bailey played him all over the shop. Even his most vocal critics would agree that once Neeld gave him a regular position he was far more influential as stats such as leading the league in intercepts (albeit over a 6 week period) suggest.

But in any case i wasn't talking about his previous form i was talking about the upcoming season. His ability to play on different sized forwards, his pace, his disposal skills, his vision and ability to read the play all add up to a dangerous - and yes potentially influential - package. He will play a similar role to Hodge, Fisher, Goddard etc and i believe be similarly effective. If he adds a bit of flair and takes the game on a bit he will also launch many an attack for us.

But we will see soon enough i look forward to revisiting this conversation.

Interesting to see the stats in how many times the ball was launched into the Swans' F50...it was a 100+ drubbing, so I'm assuming it was an avalanche.

I'm not going to dwell on one game.

JW is a disappointment - that's a fact and at some stage you'll need to acknowledge that.

BTW, comparing him to HODGE? Really??

I, too, look forward to revisiting this debate.

[binman 43,212]

Interesting to see the stats in how many times the ball was launched into the Swans' F50...it was a 100+ drubbing, so I'm assuming it was an avalanche.

I'm not going to dwell on one game.

JW is a disappointment - that's a fact and at some stage you'll need to acknowledge that.

BTW, comparing him to HODGE? Really??

I, too, look forward to revisiting this debate.

Who's dwelling on one game? GTG gave several other examples. We only won 4 games last year and in the first of those wins Watts was extremely influential - including beating the eventual Brownlow medalist in a key one on contest at a crucial juncture of the game. Match winning stuff.

Why not compare him to Hodge? He will be asked to play a very similar role this year to the one Hodge often plays. I expect him to play the role extremely effectively.

But yes well see.

[The Reverend 1,736]

Interesting to see the stats in how many times the ball was launched into the Swans' F50...it was a 100+ drubbing, so I'm assuming it was an avalanche.

I'm not going to dwell on one game.

JW is a disappointment - that's a fact and at some stage you'll need to acknowledge that.

BTW, comparing him to HODGE? Really??

I, too, look forward to revisiting this debate.

Definition of fact

noun

• a thing that is known or proved to be true:the most commonly known fact about hedgehogs is that they have fleas

Just saying it's a fact does not make it so Jumbo. Do you have some objective data/evidence to support your assertion? What you're saying sounds like a subjective judgement rather than any sort of empirical assessment.

Here's a fact about elephants:

Like children, elephants must be disciplined by the members of their collectivity to turn into responsible members of the elephant society. But male elephants that were orphans turned into adult delinquents in a reserve in South Africa, as they had never been kept under control by mature elephants.

The balky elephants attacked people (killing two, including a professional hunter), killed 19 white rhinos in three years and even attempted mating with rhinoceroses. When adult bulls from a group were moved amongst delinquents, they restored order and a more proper behavior in young bulls.

http://news.softpedia.com/news/9-Amazing-Facts-About-Elephants-71540.shtml

It's good you have members of the collective to pull you into line to prevent you from mating with rhinoceroses.

[Hannibal 5,814]

What GTG said. As JB notes the game against Swans last year was terrific as it was in a team that was flogged and almost all of his team mates dropped their heads.. Playing well in a losing team is a trait i put a great deal of stock in.

Do you put much stock in putting your body on the line ?

[leehow 303]

Do you put much stock in putting your body on the line ?

Wondered how long it would be before you mentioned that!

I think Binman is trying to say that he thinks JW 'can' be our most influential player this year. He is not saying that he has been previously. He has all the tools to do it, and with a bigger body this year, hopefully we will get to see a much improved, harder player. There is definitely a lot of room for improvement, but i think he is heading the right way.

Edited February 5, 2013 by leehow

[jumbo returns 6,741]

Definition of fact

noun

• a thing that is known or proved to be true:the most commonly known fact about hedgehogs is that they have fleas

Just saying it's a fact does not make it so Jumbo. Do you have some objective data/evidence to support your assertion? What you're saying sounds like a subjective judgement rather than any sort of empirical assessment.

Here's a fact about elephants:

Like children, elephants must be disciplined by the members of their collectivity to turn into responsible members of the elephant society. But male elephants that were orphans turned into adult delinquents in a reserve in South Africa, as they had never been kept under control by mature elephants.

The balky elephants attacked people (killing two, including a professional hunter), killed 19 white rhinos in three years and even attempted mating with rhinoceroses. When adult bulls from a group were moved amongst delinquents, they restored order and a more proper behavior in young bulls.

http://news.softpedia.com/news/9-Amazing-Facts-About-Elephants-71540.shtml

It's good you have members of the collective to pull you into line to prevent you from mating with rhinoceroses.

Crawf52...talk footy and have a debate.

Putting your belittling repartee aside, have you seen any evidence that JW will be star? Or the team's most influential player? Or that he'll show some ticker?

[The Reverend 1,736]

Crawf52...talk footy and have a debate.

Putting your belittling repartee aside, have you seen any evidence that JW will be star? Or the team's most influential player? Or that he'll show some ticker?

I'm on the side that says let's wait and see. I suspect he will become a very good footballer. I base this on my optimistic nature rather than anything concrete. I've seen enough of his skills to think he has the makings, but football's a funny game. I once trained alongside Leigh Matthews who very quickly showed me how much ticker one needs at that level. I thought I had plenty, but it took me a long time to get over his hardness at the ball. I suspect Jack Watts may have found himself a boy among men a little too soon and this may have unsettled him. I think he's ready to show us that he's over the initial shock. But as I say, footy's a funny game. It's not always about skill. Therefore, I'm happy to sit optimistically on the fence.

You're the one who says it's a fact that he's a disappointment. I'm asking you to show me the evidence of this.

[jumbo returns 6,741]

I'm on the side that says let's wait and see. I suspect he will become a very good footballer. I base this on my optimistic nature rather than anything concrete. I've seen enough of his skills to think he has the makings, but football's a funny game. I once trained alongside Leigh Matthews who very quickly showed me how much ticker one needs at that level. I thought I had plenty, but it took me a long time to get over his hardness at the ball. I suspect Jack Watts may have found himself a boy among men a little too soon and this may have unsettled him. I think he's ready to show us that he's over the initial shock. But as I say, footy's a funny game. It's not always about skill. Therefore, I'm happy to sit optimistically on the fence.

You're the one who says it's a fact that he's a disappointment. I'm asking you to show me the evidence of this.

He just hasn't performed.

You and I both know that.

I'm glad you survived your encounter with Lethal....he was hardest I've seen and I can see how your anecdote may relate directly back to a skinny JW.

But, many, regardless of size and mismatches, have shown early energy, angst and vigour. Alas, JW has a ways to go.

I doubt he'll make it at the MFC under Neeld.

[waynewussell 5,879]

I'm afraid that people who don't see Jack Watts as a very good footballer are living in the past. I have confidence in that fact being very firmly established as the 2013 season unfolds. I'm not going to list Jack's positives here, but the list is significant. If you think the current coaching panel has reservations about his place on our list you are bordering on delusional. Think 6' 5", athletic, highly skilled, intelligent and coming into his prime...

[RalphiusMaximus 6,079]

I'm afraid that people who don't see Jack Watts as a very good footballer are living in the past. I have confidence in that fact being very firmly established as the 2013 season unfolds. I'm not going to list Jack's positives here, but the list is significant. If you think the current coaching panel has reservations about his place on our list you are bordering on delusional. Think 6' 5", athletic, highly skilled, intelligent and coming into his prime...

I tend to think Goddard only taller. Maybe a little less attacking when the ball is in dispute, but has a lot of the same qualities. Also, they both started pretty slowly.

[Hannibal 5,814]

I'm afraid that people who don't see Jack Watts as a very good footballer are living in the past. I have confidence in that fact being very firmly established as the 2013 season unfolds. I'm not going to list Jack's positives here, but the list is significant. If you think the current coaching panel has reservations about his place on our list you are bordering on delusional. Think 6' 5", athletic, highly skilled, intelligent and coming into his prime...

Most people are aware of his skill, but not all are aware of the impact of his deficiencies. He'll have the odd game that has his most admiring supporters say, "see, I told you so", but unless he changes major aspects of his play he'll never impact a final where games go up about 5 notches.

Unfortunately, not many observers can see this.