Caroline Wilson's descent into gutter journalism

[GawnWithTheWind 604]

This is crap..

Personally, I don't think the AFL will say:

"Oh Hey Jack, sorry your not allowed to play for your fathers club due to a decision made by some people 5 years ago at your club, have fun at the doggies mate!"

"Oh Hey Jesse, your back in the AFL draft system, say thanks to Mitch Clark for housing you and making your transition smooth.. Have fun at GWS or Port"

"Dawes, go back to Collingwood"

If we get stung, I think it will be for the up coming AFL drafts

[Dr John Dee 1,057]

"One version of events is that Connolly, in illustrating the importance of winning less than five games so as to gain Scully with a No. 1 draft pick, spoke of ''the cavalry'' riding over a hill and coming to get those coaches and football officials who allowed Melbourne to win too many games and therefore miss the priority pick.

Another version claimed Connolly surveyed the room of some 15 men - coach Bailey, his assistants, recruiters and other football staff - and told them that the consequences of missing the priority pick would be that they would all lose their jobs."

I'm sorry - but these two paragraphs are utterly hilarious. Especially the first one. She's got to be kidding around, surely. Cavalry comin' over the hill to get y'all! Dontchu dare win too may games boi. Ridiculous.

Her real motivation seems to appear in the penultimate paragraph.

And the best she has is some Sydney players and Richmond players unquoted opinions - gee whiz.

Um, the cavalry comes over the hill to the rescue. I presume Chris would know that. Caro, well ...

[s-t-i-n-g-a 439]

Just wondering if people think that if CC told coaches to lose and threatened their career that we are not guilty of wrong doing and should not be punished?

[beelzebub 23,306]

What a Week !!

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

Just wondering if people think that if CC told coaches to lose and threatened their career that we are not guilty of wrong doing and should not be punished?

I would say the individual would be punished, unless there was evidence it was under club instruction.

Has anyone else noticed the argument against Melbourne has moved from "Melbourne did tank" to "Melbourne conspired to tank"?

[biggestred 4,972]

had a good laugh at robbos "evidence" of tanking in the hun today - bailey called us in and told us we would play in different positions. "we want to see what roles you can play because now in todays game you need to be able to play a number of roles"

ohhhh thats CLEAR LOCK DOWN WATER TIGHT SHUT THE VAULT evidence of tanking isnt it robbo.

fwit.

[MO FINE 165]

Just wondering if people think that if CC told coaches to lose and threatened their career that we are not guilty of wrong doing and should not be punished?

What if he said it but was clearly being facetious when he made the comment and most of those in the room got the joke and laughed?

[Pipefitter 2,144]

There is still no we want you to lose directives, it was all playing players in different positions etc which isn't tanking. The AFL don't want this to go further, but the more people involved who keep giving evidence they are going to have to come down on us. Which is terrible, but i never agreed with tanking, and I still don't. Look how far it got us? Kind of lucky we traded most of our picks this year, they can't take those off us.

[beelzebub 23,306]

What if he said it but was clearly being facetious when he made the comment and most of those in the room got the joke and laughed?

This is the thing. Just as its often seen here where remarks are taken wrongly for the 'tone' or "sarcasm" cant be heard.

Theres such a thing as context and so far all ive seen is some hacks carefully reconstruct a narative from cut up snippets thusly losing all relevance and context.

[loges 6,767]

The whole vault would have to do that. And they would have to do that without giving conflicting evidence. And they would have to do that even with the knowledge that there have already been leaks. And they would have to do that even with the knowledge that they can't trust each other. And they would have to put their careers at great risk and possibly even perjure themselves.

Alternatively, Schwab, McClardy, Connolly and the other bad eggs can fess up and take their medicine and just maybe the club will get through this. I can't see them doing it willingly though.

Very illuminating. I'll confess I have no knowledge of MFC politics but from reading these boards I don't think it is drawing too long a bow to come up with the following.Resentfull & bitter former board members of the Gardiner board particularly anti Schwab & Connolly now see the opportunity to gain some revenge through the tanking investigation .............it would not surprise me at all if they are the ones feeding these stories to the press & the AFL. Bugger the supporters, bugger the players, the coaches. Just hope there is something left of our club when all this is over I don't have another 10 years to wait for a rebuild

[rjay 24,778]

Robbo, Robbo, Robbo....CW has beaten you to the punch my friend. The effort you have come up with today, and to think I had a sleepless night with all the possibilities of what new revelations you have going through my head.

The only new thing here is that Bailey wanted to develop a flexible team and we had a least one delusional player who thought we could have won 5 more games.

[rpfc 28,207]

This is all extrapolation and it is death by a thousand cuts but nothing I have read from CW convinces me we are in trouble.

Show me the email trail explicitly saying our intent and that's a different story, but don't give me CC's wry sense of dark humour and CS's 'sullen look'...

Give me some real evidence!

[s-t-i-n-g-a 439]

What if he said it but was clearly being facetious when he made the comment and most of those in the room got the joke and laughed?

Are you talking about the Jim comment or those made to the coaches about their jobs being on the line? I don't have an issue with the former because sure it could be a joke but the latter is less likely to be.

[Whispering_Jack 29,621]

What if he said it but was clearly being facetious when he made the comment and most of those in the room got the joke and laughed?

You don't understand that we're living in the old Soviet Union and we're not allowed to make jokes any more. If we do, the Age will reproduce them as being criminal libels against the people and the system and the KGB will come and take you away.

Don't believe it?

These things actually happened during my lifetime.

[jackaub 1,402]

The MFC have done nothing wrong They have used the AFL rules to advantage just like West Coast Richmond carlton Pies and Hawks

Can you imagine the president of Collingwood putting up with this shite from Caro alledged jounalist and the other hacks beating this up they do it because the club is weak and refuses to challenge the allegations Eddie or Brian Cooke would be on the front foot and it would either wouldnt happen or would go away

If the AFL dares to impose sanctions then MFC must take legal action The MFC have done nothing illegal and a court would confirm it

For Gods sake McLardy get of your bum and challenge the articles and the AFL

This is a defining moment in our history we must meet it hard and succeed The club just looks pissweak allowing everybody else to run the agenda

The management of this club is a joke!

[timD 994]

[media=]

It's a scene from Firefly that I have had in my head for a couple of days now.

Schwab and Connolly maybe 'witches'...

But they're our witches.

**I realise this is a sideways reference but this show is great and this scene has relevance from where I sit...

Firefly. Too perfect for this gruuby world.

Oh, what might have been....

[Blinkybill 276]

Just wondering if people think that if CC told coaches to lose and threatened their career that we are not guilty of wrong doing and should not be punished?

Some punishment of the club is inevitable. It can't be rationally argued that only the individuals should be punished - CC and DB were in key positions, and it's an issue of corporate responsibility.

The only way individuals could be punished is if it was proven that one or two acted contrary to the wishes of management. Does anyone seriously think this?

[s-t-i-n-g-a 439]

This is all extrapolation and it is death by a thousand cuts but nothing I have read from CW convinces me we are in trouble.

Show me the email trail explicitly saying our intent and that's a different story, but don't give me CC's wry sense of dark humour and CS's 'sullen look'...

Give me some real evidence!

What if he told a room full of people they will lose their jobs if we win and statements verified that?

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

What if he told a room full of people they will lose their jobs if we win and statements verified that?

What if it was a joke? This is the problem, they need concrete evidence.

[Guest José Mourinho]

FFS... Sounds like the HS & CW have a direct line to Isaac Weetra or Jace Bode.

Valenti, Rhys Healey, Paul Johnson, Addam Maric, Tom McNamara...

It'll be some bitter non-entity as a player who blames the club's woes in 2009 for the failure of their football career.

[Wells 11 5,356]

One part of me wants the club to come out swinging..a la Eddie style. But I think thats only to gratify the emotive defiant streak in me. The other more salient and astute side would have me shut up, for now, and wait. To open my mouth would only add a fuel to an already over saturated pyre. On that pyre is an effigy and like all effigies they arent the actual entity. Its but a caricature, a distortion. The angry mob wants flames, they want to see someone burn, as long as its not themselves.

How often do you here the guilty , and more over the cowardly guilty scream .."it was him...over there !!"

Often some poor schmuck is carted off and interrogated, humiliated and berated. The angry mob feels validated for its vigilantism as long as someone hangs.

The truly guilty smirk and hide, gloating amongst themselves they have pulled one over the eyes of the crowd and more importantly the authorities. They are too clever by half and 99 times out of a 100 they just cant help but identify themselves eventually as the real culprits.

There are indeed culprits here but its not well intentioned , its not those that followed courses dug for them by others who then coralled them into the stockade.

No its those that seek benefit and cudos at the expense of others efforts and good intent.. It is the parasites, those incapable of creating anything of their own but succour off the blood of others that the guilty here. As is often the case they are the one screaming loudest, baying for blood hoping for deflection.

They are pitiful creatures but i'll give them no pity, in fact i wouldnt even p!ss on them should they be on fire.

I can only think the club not only has traitors in its midst but is more fortunate in having others who's stoicism and resilience under enormous pressure might just get us through in the end.

Its takes a steady nerve to wait, to wait and wait until you can see clearly the means of extraction.

The battle for the MFC cant be won in an arena designed and mastered by those who seek to destroy it. It can only be fought at a place and on terms that are just. It wont be the court of public opinion but more likely the place where the blindfolded lady hangs out.

After we get up , lick our wounds and carry on we will be stronger, more united and better informed. We we know who are on our side and we will know our enemies. After this clears there will be those that feel ashamed of their stance and quickness to judge a team no different from theirs and there will be a a club's whos veracity to stick to its course will only be matched by its ferocity to deal this all that opposed to it.

The Demon will have truly awoken. God help anything in our way then !!

I think every Demon supporter who cares is hurting at the moment....( as if we werent ALEADY before this CW driven sh@t storm) but posts like this do help lift my eyes a little. Thanks BB

[Pates 9,649]

I can't for the life of me understand why CC would have a meeting with all that staff to explain that. If it was a strategy the club wanted to go with turn why include so many people? DB was senior coach, he made the decisions with players at the end of the day, he didn't need to answer to any of the assistants.

[Guest José Mourinho]

Seriously, I can't imagine Caro is "going light on us"...

She's just drip feeding it so she can drag out this issue.

And even then, I have doubts to the quality of her intel when she keeps referring to this particular meeting codenamed "the vault", when the room there has had that nickname for years, and pretty much ALL of their meetings were held there.

So really, if anything, it's potentially just an off-the-cuff comment during a football dept meeting.

[Freddy Fuschia 730]

One of the things that I enjoy about being at Melbourne functions is Chris Connolly's wry sense of humour. It doesn't come as a surprise to me therefore that he would have made the following comment after Melbourne beat Port Adelaide at the MCG in 2009:

Even Blind Freddie would know, given the ongoing discussion at the time about whether or not the club should tank experiment that this was a joke and nothing more: that his tongue was planted firmly in cheek when he commented about the cavalry and sacking people. Let's get real please!

But Caroline Wilson in today's Age takes it seriously enough to dedicate an entire article on his comments -

Jobs on line: Dees warned

I think it's really sad when people have no sense of humour. Hilarious when they use it to push someone else's agenda.

Meanwhile, the so called exposé in the little paper today confirms again that the club did not tell its players to tank. Instead, Dean Bailey informed them that the club would be experimenting with positions etc. for the remainder of a lost year.

Former Melbourne coach Dean Bailey told players to accept new 'strategy'

Of course, we all know exactly what was going on but at least Melbourne won three games after the change in strategy was applied. That's unlike Carlton in 2007 which lost its last eleven and Collingwood in 2005 and Melbourne in 2003 (when Paul Gardner was on the board and about to become chairman and we know how he wouldn't tolerate any thought of tanking).

I don't believe that Dean Bailey was a great coach, I don't think the club treated his dismissal well and I don't believe his comments immediately after were appropriate but it's becoming exceedingly clear that Dean treated the awkward situation which both he and the club were in at the time in exemplary fashion. He was straight with the players as they were with him.

From all this, it's also clear that although winning games was taking a back seat to the future of the club, there was no attempt to induce or coerce the players into going out to lose games which is how the AFL has time and time again gone out of its way to describe as the criteria for tanking.

If the AFL is going to retrospectively change the definition of tanking and move the goalposts it would be doing itself and the game a disservice.

The way to put an end to the unseemly witch hunt now going on against one club and some of its officials when at least half of the AFL's clubs have practiced the same strategies is to accept that the system it then had in place was flawed, it has now been changed to minimise tanking and to move on.

The flaw was that the AFL offered an incentive for tanking and idly sat by for more than a decade as club after club took advantage of that flawed system. It even gave the nod to Carlton's monumental effort in performing the "grand slam of tanking" in 2007 that culminated in the infamous Kreuzer Cup game.

Now, we've reached the stage where people are actually interpreting a clever joke as evidence of wrongdoing. And of course, its becoming patently clear that the media is being fed many of these scraps by former insiders with axes to grind who want to bring down certain individuals within one club because they bear a grudge against them. It's getting really filthy and abhorrent.

The AFL needs to act responsibly to end this farce.

Anyone who's seen her in action on Footy Classified would know that Caro's a bit slow on the uptake when it comes down to tongue in cheek humour.

[Lucifers Hero 39,274]

I can't for the life of me understand why CC would have a meeting with all that staff to explain that. If it was a strategy the club wanted to go with turn why include so many people? DB was senior coach, he made the decisions with players at the end of the day, he didn't need to answer to any of the assistants.

Maybe CC never got over (or accepted) that DB was appointed coach instead of himself and he still wanted to exert coaching influences...afterall at the time the coach (CB) reported to the football manager (CC) so CC would have seen it as his job/right to tell the coach what to do. Thankfully the reporting structure has now been changed.