Will Martin get his chance back or will they give Cook a go....

[old dee 23,872]

Most of the bodies in the VFL are the same sizes as the AFL.

I though it was mainly skill differences.

I could be wrong though.

Cook = deep end

I don't agree with you McQueen They are not as big or as strong as at AFL.

I would suggest the average VFL player is not up to the same level as the WAFL or SANFL.

The current VFL is not like the old VFA.

There are way more kids like Cook playing from AFL squads.

In the old VFA days you had a lot of players who did make it at AFL level or guys who went to the VFA after their AFL days were over.

The average age of VFL players is much younger with less mature bodies.

It is the breeding ground for new draftees from the AFL associates.

I will maintain my thought Cook Is not ready for AFL.

[old dee 23,872]

I posted this in another thread yesterday, but this is probably a better place for it.

Martin needs to wise up quick smart and sort things out. I've heard that despite his intelligence, he's a dumb footballer. Can't or won't take instructions and takes criticism poorly. He doesn't get Neeld's game plan - runs into the wrong positions and brings his opponent into play too often. This results in a tendency to go into his shell.

If the season ended now he'd be on the trade table.

Total 100% disagreement

[Rob Mac...... 638]

I think he overthinks things. He has too much brain and too little instinct. When he forgets to think about it and just plays it all seems to work for him. Unfortunately, it makes his set shots a real liability, because that is when he has a good 30 seconds to overthink and get himself in a tangle.

Interesting take on it! Okay.

I'm still thinking instinct is related to reflexes & reflexes are improved & honed by constantly practising & focusing on it. I agree he may overthink on the field, but my post in no way suggested he doesn't give it all he has on game day & he should "think" more on the field.

No, I suggested he focus more attention throughout his next year or more on everything related to performing better as a KPF, ruck etc.

Then when he takes the field it'll all flow more naturally for him. At present he doesn't appear to have thoroughly learnt how to be an elite player. I could be wrong, but sense he could learn this. If he doesn't, he may eventually be dropped; a shame for such a potential Dees star.

[dee-luded 2,959]

MFC site says Cook is only 81kg, Clark 99 & Martin 103. We need a BIG man up forward who can PLAY (& ruck a little) so surely it's Martin.

I have a theory on why I LOVE his potential, am disappointed in his skills & application, & think he needs a rocket:

They say Martin is very, very intelligent, studying this & that at Uni or wherever.

I wish he'd do much less of that & much more of what he's paid to do: please focus his concentration on becoming an elite footballer!

Often on field Martin seems unsure what to do, which means, for an intelligent full time professional, he's been devoting way insufficient mental concentration to the game. His mind should be full of abstractions about how to handle all kinds of on field situations (eg. where to go & what to do in various scenarios as a KPF).

He has ALL the physical attributes of size, athleticism, speed, agility etc. but plays like someone who's never really learnt to be an elite, SMART, skilled player.

It's frustrating because he has such elite potential!

Thanks for your consideration.

I agree mostly, Rob M.

I think he has a bit of whats troubled Will Minson. As a conservative natured & cleancut lad, he wants to do well. His Intelligence gives him too many alternatives to make a decision about, possibly causing him to be indecisive. This also can appear to look Unco'.

He needs to be more a risk taker & just go with the first thought. Trouble is I suspect, he has so many ideas all at once, he's unsure.

When he starts to believe he'll surprise. As we saw last year. Sophisticated thoughts don't gell well with spontaneaity & intuitiveness.

# More aggression in his game may help him find a good rhythm to go about his game.

Edited June 26, 2012 by dee-luded

[Chook in Perth 2,109]

Total 100% disagreement

They're not my thoughts sunshine. That what I was told by someone with impeccable contacts.

So feel free to disagree, I couldn't care less what you think.

[old dee 23,872]

They're not my thoughts sunshine. That what I was told by someone with impeccable contacts.

So feel free to disagree, I couldn't care less what you think.

Chook I am not sure what has got up your nose so badly.

I just said I disagree with you.

Calm down.

[rpfc 28,779]

They're not my thoughts sunshine. That what I was told by someone with impeccable contacts.

So feel free to disagree, I couldn't care less what you think.

Do you care what I think?

[old dee 23,872]

Do you care what I think?

I do!

[Redleg 41,432]

Saw Cook on TV last week for Casey and while no man mountain yet, he has bulked up a bit. Another pre season should see him further developed. He will be a big boy.

[Rob Mac...... 638]

Wait, you are making it sound like if Stefan just spent a few more hours at AAMI Park he could be as good as Franklin...

lol

[No you're exaggerating my statement. I think if it weren't for the poor quantity & quality of delivery to him that Mitch Clark would have had a comparable year to Buddy this year. Now Mitch is out & I'm thinking that Stefan has a physicality close to Mitch & Franklins & I think has the potential to improve his footy IQ & learn to be a good KPF .]

The guy has a high IQ but that doesn't mean he has a high footy IQ.

[You're saying exactly what I'm saying now. So don't you think anything can be done about his footy IQ?]

Frankly, I find that athletes moving into AFL learn more about the game while they are playing.

[Agreed of course, but I suspect Martin has unused potential that on & off field work can help bring out & NOW would be the time for him to really work at rising to the occasion.]

[rpfc 28,779]

I suspect Martin has unused potential that on & off field work can help bring out & NOW would be the time for him to really work at rising to the occasion.

I agree. What I don't agree with is the unsubstantiated claim that his studies have/are getting in the way of his progress as a footballer.

No-one like the accusation they are not doing enough - even at my level, let alone a bloke paid to be a footy player.

[McQueen 17,867]

I don't agree with you McQueen They are not as big or as strong as at AFL.

I would suggest the average VFL player is not up to the same level as the WAFL or SANFL.

The current VFL is not like the old VFA.

There are way more kids like Cook playing from AFL squads.

In the old VFA days you had a lot of players who did make it at AFL level or guys who went to the VFA after their AFL days were over.

The average age of VFL players is much younger with less mature bodies.

It is the breeding ground for new draftees from the AFL associates.

I will maintain my thought Cook Is not ready for AFL.

I would say that up to a third of the total team of some affiliate teams are made up of senior players out of form, coming back from injury etc. Look at Casey on the weekend. A total of 12 MFC listed players were in that match, 5 of which have played senior AFL footy this year.

I've not seen Cook play so I'll refrain from saying whether he is ready or not. Watts looked scrawny and un-co when he played QB 2009.

At some stage we need to blood these young men like Cook. A game here and there won't hurt and it will do no harm to his development - injuries aside. Look at all the lightly framed kids that have played for GWS and GC since their inception?

What's the worst that can happen to him? Get pushed out of a contest?

Bring him!

Edited June 26, 2012 by McQueen

[stinga81 210]

Prefer Cook over Martin. Cooks improved in this last few weeks at Casey, sure he didn't hit the scoreboard on the weekend (except for a couple of behinds), but still did some good things and when the ball was on ground level at crisp handling and dished off the ball smoothly. We know Martin can do, but we also know what he can't do.

I'd like them to bring Cook in and play Sellar between backline and pinchitting in the ruck.

[Dinosaur Rover 197]

I really think they're taking their time with Cook and I don't see them breaking that course yet. I'd imagine Stef will come in for Clark more out of necessity then form, Sellar has shown himself to be able to play a role in defense but forward he looks slow and a liability.

Eventually Jurrah will get fit again and hopefully come back in, but his role can't be what Mitch was or else he'll flounder like he did last year.

Stef stepped up last year, hopefully he can do it again.

I agree with this Martin stretches them for height and marking ability on the forward line together with Garland and Rivers. He also proved to be a very capable player on the ball last year without Jamar. He operates best in the wide open spaces and is hard at the ball. The lions have two gorillas to mind in Brown and Merrett and Merrett is pretty quick so I cant see Sellar running in the ruck. Cook is only a lead and mark guy and is too light for seniors except for a blooding game later in the season.

[Rob Mac...... 638]

I agree. What I don't agree with is the unsubstantiated claim that his studies have/are getting in the way of his progress as a footballer.

No-one like the accusation they are not doing enough - even at my level, let alone a bloke paid to be a footy player.

Well I don't know that it's definitely his studies or something else, or maybe he's really been doing all he can after all?

But I don't really buy that a pro footballer can have a high IQ yet low footy IQ (as you & others said in their own ways) yet be incapable of improving the footy IQ with appropriate work on that. ..& now is the time for Martin bring what he can to the table.

The accusation they could be doing more is surely something many players receive, are accustomed to & shouldn't be too psychologically hurt by. How about Sylvia?

I mentioned Col because we're told partying has been a distraction for him in the past.

Okay inebriation affects health adversely, but lets hypothetically compare someone who soberly chases girls to a dedicated Uni student who spends an equally huge amount of time studying?

Now if it was an amateur sports team I'd 100% agree with criticising the womaniser & praising the student, but AFL players are well paid for a 10 - 15 year career which is a high % of their working lives & may lead to a media career etc., so anything distracting from their footy performance is bad, even university studies if they're taking inordinate time & concentration! Therefor I'm comfortable enough posting that I suspect Stefs studies or something are reducing his concentration on mentally preparing to play.

If not, why would such a superb & intelligent athlete make so many dumb moves on the forward line? Answer: Because he didn't spend enough time thinking through every little aspect of it time & time again & preparing for a better performance, especially above the shoulders.

btw, thanks for the replies rpfc.

Ps. I also agree with Dinosaur above.

[H_T 3,049]

Wait, you are making it sound like if Stefan just spent a few more hours at AAMI Park he could be as good as Franklin...

lol

The guy has a high IQ but that doesn't mean he has a high footy IQ.

He's Melbourne's answer to Will Minson, minus the sledging.

[dpositive 1,684]

Wasnt it Martin who relieved pretty well for Jamar last year?? I thought he did ok but needed more development time

I thought he looked ok at Casey but may be unfamiliar to the Jones Trengove Magner Maloney mid field.

He is more mobile than Jamar and could be Ok against the Lions.

Martin may be better in ruck with Jamar going into the forward contest /space maker role the clark did so well. he probably wont mark or kick as many as mitch but there was vision of him having a day out against Carlton so anything could happen

Then mix it up for the next match as Neeld has been doing and play Cook who I agree Cook looks good but may be a bit underdone for the bigger bodies of the Lions.

I reckon develop the squad against appropriate sides

Yes its a bugger we have lost Clarke and we may now have to look a little more seriously at Cloke

But as someone once said "everythings connected to everything else" this could be a development opportunity that we need

[daisycutter 29,738]

Should've drafted Fev.

Should've kept Juice

[Nasher 33,617]

They're not my thoughts sunshine. That what I was told by someone with impeccable contacts.

So feel free to disagree, I couldn't care less what you think.

You've obviously been reading How to Graciously Disagree by Ben H. Hur

[IRW 1,387]

"That what I was told by someone with impeccable contacts"........

There's nothing like passing on information Chook

It doesnt have to be gospel but it sure beats the hell out of 'passionate' amateur guesswork, and there has to be a reason that Stef came on so well last year but shows no sign of continuing his improvement this season

[Goodvibes 3,596]

Or we could always just bring in another runner, clear our forward 50 and let this man go to work.

http://www.afl.com.au/tabid/208/default.aspx?newsid=139522

[Chook in Perth 2,109]

You've obviously been reading How to Graciously Disagree by Ben H. Hur

Not sure if that's a compliment or observation! Look I'm just used to how people would respond on Ology. They'd read the post and go "ok this is what he's heard and he's sharing it with us." They wouldn't question the merit, because it isn't an opinion to pull apart.

And yes, I know this isn't Ology and I need to get over it, but FMD. Usually inside info (and you know what else came with that info) is appreciated, not dismissed by amateur Tommy Hafeys.

Edited June 26, 2012 by Chook in Perth

[bazza226 74]

It is my understanding that Stef deferred his studies this year to allow him to concentrate on footy.

He should be in this week vs Lions.

[jnrmac 20,186]

I posted this in another thread yesterday, but this is probably a better place for it.

Martin needs to wise up quick smart and sort things out. I've heard that despite his intelligence, he's a dumb footballer. Can't or won't take instructions and takes criticism poorly. He doesn't get Neeld's game plan - runs into the wrong positions and brings his opponent into play too often. This results in a tendency to go into his shell.

If the season ended now he'd be on the trade table.

DOesn't get Neeld's game plan? He has played two games this year. I guess that there were 36 or so players who didn't get Neeld's game plan in the first 9 weeks.....

Don't forget he is a very late starter to footy....

[jumbo returns 6,741]

Many poster look at 'last year' as a yardstick for Stef Martin.

Last year, there was a coach without a game plan and footballers without accountability.

As Chook said, 'runs into wrong positions' (sic) and runs into the no-go zones where space is to be created.

Cook is skinny, but he's a lovely kick, is coachable and takes a nice mark - all our games are not about 2012, they're about 2013.