A premiership midfield

[Axis of Bob 11,836]

OK, I'm sick of sorting through the many threads of complete crap and have decided to start something constructive instead.

Our overall structure of a side looks quite good if we project their quality into the future. A forward line of Clark, Watts, Howe, McDonald, Cook, Fitzpatrick etc has quality and potential. Our defence of Frawley, Garland, Davis, Sellar, Rivers, etc has some established quality and some potential too. Between these players we should be able to fashion high quality book ends in time.

However, as has been noted, the problem is trying to give adequate supply to the forwards and restrict the supply to the defenders. The problem is the midfield. We lack the real top end quality, and we lack a depth of quality. We look at players like Moloney to lead our midfield, but in top 4 teams the midfield is being led by: Swan, Pendlebury, Mitchell, Hodge, Judd, Murphy, Selwood, Bartel, Priddis, Kerr, etc. These teams have two or more players who are far better than our best.

Our midfield has some good young players. Our most promising are Trengove and Gysberts, with Jones probably starting to enter his productive years. I think Trengove has the chance to be a very good player because of his ability to find a bit of time in traffic. Gysberts should also be very good, but will need time to develop his running capacity. Jones has shown so far this year that his power running will hld him in good stead. Aside from that we lack.

But what are we going to do about it?

Thankfully we have a very strong draft hand coming up in a very strong draft. This involves the two fairly early draft picks from Scully. We are also committed to a high quality midfielder in Viney. We have a few different ways we could do it.

Firstly we could look to fill other holes in the draft and move some of our more talented players into the midfield. These players include Grimes, Watts and Howe. This would have the advantage of giving us a more rounded team, but it would rely on our current list being able to give us a good enough midfield.

Secondly we could look to trade one, or both, of those early draft picks for a top quality mature midfielder. This would involve spending both picks and money, but it would give us an immediate boost in the same way that Clark did for our forward line.

Thirdly, we could trade for one of the 17 year old picks that GWS has access to. These would be the top players in next year's draft, as they are below draft age this year, in the same way as O'Meara and Crouch were this year. This could give us really top talent, but we would have to wait even longer for the player to become good.

And fourthly, we could just spend our two early picks on the best two midfielders that we can. This will improve our midfield, but will it get us a star, or just two good midfielders? And it will take time for those players to make an impact.

So what do you think we should do to achieve a premiership midfield?

And, more importantly, why do you think we should do that?

[Brayshaw Self 847]

Use the picks on 2 top young mids in this draft then at the end of next season (or this season if we are feeling desperate) terminate Davey's contract/trade him for peanuts. This combined with Green's imminent departure opens up a lot of money to spend on a quality mid. That's 4 (hopefully) good quality mids when you add Viney to the mix

[rpfc 28,525]

1 - Grimes and Howe to the midfield.

2 - Target Black and Sewell in FA.

3 - With comp picks look to; trade for ready made mid, if fail then into the Mini-Draft, and if fail then into the National draft.

4 - Maintain focus on state leagues for ready made mids for the rookie list.

We need midfield class and determination but we also need leadership and experience. Black and Sewell won't be easy gets but they are available if we can lure them. Right now we have a false economy in our team where our kids have to do more than the kids at other teams - and when they fail they look worse than they really are. Darling doesn't have to do what Watts has had to do, Trengove has to do more than Fyfe, etc.

The comp picks may be more valuable than I thought they would be (the one directly after Viney), but I would still look at a trade unless we are talking about a top 6 pick (which may occur...groan). And keep on looking for the Magner's and Couch's out there.

Edited April 10, 2012 by rpfc

[dee-luded 2,959]

1 - Grimes and Howe to the midfield.

2 - Target Black and Sewell in FA.

3 - With comp picks look to; trade for ready made mid, if fail then into the Mini-Draft, and if fail then into the National draft.

4 - Maintain focus on state leagues for ready made mids for the rookie list.

We need midfield class and determination but we also need leadership and experience. Black and Sewell won't be easy gets but they are available if we can lure them. Right now we have a false economy in our team where our kids have to do more than the kids at other teams - and when they fail they look worse than they really are. Darling doesn't have to do what Watts has had to do, Trengove has to do more than Fyfe, etc.

The comp picks may be more valuable than I thought they would be (the one directly after Viney), but I would still look at a trade unless we are talking about a top 6 pick (which may occur...groan). And keep on looking for the Magner's and Couch's out there.

IMO there is bbugger all on the free agency list still available who wont be 33+ now.

Go young again & find the hardest heads going, grit with some gogo about them. we need to find a Sam Mitchell & we can draft a likely classy types after those hard heads.

Uncompromising Toughness & hardness first. We can add the class as we go. It's the leadership we need to build across each & every line.

[Bonkers 994]

IMO there is bbugger all on the free agency list still available who wont be 33+ now.

Go young again & find the hardest heads going, grit with some gogo about them. we need to find a Sam Mitchell & we can draft a likely classy types after those hard heads.

Uncompromising Toughness & hardness first. We can add the class as we go. It's the leadership we need to build across each & every line.

There are a few that are worth looking at that would add a bit more quality & depth to our list. Have a look through the list below. Some may be unrealistic targets however targeting certain players makes the clubs work harder to keep other players on that list.

FREE AGENTS

Adelaide Crows

Michael Doughty Unrestricted

Chris Knights Unrestricted

Brisbane Lions

Jed Adcock Restricted

Simon Black Unrestricted

Jonathan Brown Unrestricted

Josh Drummond Restricted

Ash McGrath Unrestricted

Carlton

Heath Scotland Restricted

Jordan Russell Unrestricted

Bret Thornton Unrestricted

Collingwood

Travis Cloke Restricted

Ben Johnson Unrestricted

Harry O'Brien Restricted

Heath Shaw Restricted

Essendon

Ricky Dyson Unrestricted

Dustin Fletcher Unrestricted

David Hille Unrestricted

Nathan Lovett-Murray Unrestricted

Mark McVeigh Unrestricted

Angus Monfries Restricted

Henry Slattery Unrestricted

Brent Stanton Restricted

Fremantle

Ryan Crowley Unrestricted

Antoni Grover Unrestricted

Luke McPharlin Unrestricted

Geelong

Shannon Byrnes Unrestricted

Paul Chapman Unrestricted

Corey Enright Unrestricted

Josh Hunt Unrestricted

Steve Johnson Unrestricted

Matthew Scarlett Unrestricted

David Wojcinski Unrestricted

Hawthorn

Chance Bateman Unrestricted

Luke Hodge Unrestricted

Sam Mitchell Unrestricted

Thomas Murphy Unrestricted

Michael Osborne Unrestricted

Brad Sewell Restricted

Clinton Young Unrestricted

Melbourne Demons

Matthew Bate Unrestricted

Lynden Dunn Unrestricted

Brad Green Unrestricted

Mark Jamar Unrestricted

Brent Moloney Restricted

Jared Rivers Unrestricted

North Melbourne

Brent Harvey Unrestricted

Michael Firrito Unrestricted

Port Adelaide

Domenic Cassisi Unrestricted

Troy Chaplin Restricted

Brett Ebert Unrestricted

Danyle Pearce Restricted

Steven Salopek Unrestricted

Jacob Surjan Unrestricted

Richmond

Brett Deledio Restricted

Nathan Foley Restricted

Luke McGuane Restricted

Kelvin Moore Unrestricted

Shane Tuck Unrestricted

St Kilda

Jason Blake Unrestricted

Raphael Clarke Unrestricted

Sam Fisher Restricted

Brendon Goddard Restricted

Jason Gram Restricted

James Gwilt Unrestricted

Lenny Hayes Unrestricted

Justin Koschitzke Unrestricted

Stephen Milne Unrestricted

Leigh Montagna Unrestricted

Sydney Swans

Jude Bolton Unrestricted

Jarrad McVeigh Restricted

Jarred Moore Unrestricted

West Coast

Sam Butler Unrestricted

Andrew Embley Unrestricted

Darren Glass Unrestricted

Daniel Kerr Unrestricted

Quinten Lynch Unrestricted

Mark Nicoski Unrestricted

Matt Rosa Unrestricted

Western Bulldogs

Lindsay Gilbee Unrestricted

Ryan Hargrave Unrestricted

Will Minson Unrestricted

[biggestred 5,105]

We need to trade for a bonafide star. Grimes should def be midfield. Watts I'm happy in the mid this year. Howe needs to stay forward to kick some goals.

So viney + a first round pick keep and use on best mid available.

Other first round and second round - trade for a 23-24 yo mid who is on his way to being a gun.

Inject grimes, viney, traded player into our midfield with moloney sylvia magnet and jones and it doesn't look too bad, especially when you add in trengove, and an improved gysberts or Morton etc etc.

Edited April 10, 2012 by Benno

[Norm Smith's Curse 2,602]

Gysberts looks like the most promising young midfielder coming through.

[Pipefitter 2,163]

Trengove, magner, Gysberts -KEEP.

The rest are really no good.

Moloney, jones are in our best few players which is why we are so rubbish.

Sylvia, the penny hasn't dropped. It never will.

Sylvia should be traded like McLean and TJ. Get something while he is still worth something.

[Axis of Bob 11,836]

Gysberts looks like the most promising young midfielder coming through.

I agree that Gysberts looks very good. For him it is just a matter of getting the running and natural maturity into him, because he has incredible hands in close as an extractor and is a natural footballer. But he may not be the sort of midfielder that will single handedly take us to victory unless he improves his running. He'll certainly need friends in the midfield.

One thing that I think our midfield lacks is running power. It was exposed on the weekend with West Coast and it is interesting to note that our best runners are not necessarily our best midfielders. Trengove and Jones are, but after that we have flankers and talls. That needs to change. Grimes is a top runner and Howe is good. Viney is good.

Does that mean that we need several strong runners in the midfield, or maybe throw our eggs into a basket with one star to make it easier for the others?

[hardtack 10,548]

Trengove, magner, Gysberts -KEEP.

The rest are really no good.

Moloney, jones are in our best few players which is why we are so rubbish.

You are kidding right? Jones has come on in leaps and bounds over the last couple of seasons and I would not be at all surprised to see him poll well in the Brownlow this year. He is still young and if he continues to improve at the rate he has been, he will be remembered as one of the best midfielders this club has produced... once he is surrounded by a cohesive and well drilled team that want to play as desperately as he does, he will absolutely shine.

[H_T 3,049]

Leigh Montagna unrestricted ? Interesting.

I think that given what we have, what we will get (Viney), we seem to be stronger in the inside mid capabilities than the outside run -pace with good kicking efficiency. So I think there is a need there.

I agree with rpfc's assessment. It will depend on who is available (who we could lure) re FA, or trade, and how we are positioned re: bid for mini draft.

Whichever way the club goes it is an understatement I think, to hit our mark with what we have up the sleeve.

[Pennant St Dee 13,228]

Get Boak or Dangerfield, they are yet to resign so target them now unofficially.

[Goodvibes 3,596]

Gysberts looks like the most promising young midfielder coming through.

I've noticed that anyone who is sidelined by injury during a losing streak automatically looks more promising than anything on the field! Having said that, I agree. I think Gysberts has the overall package to be a very important midfielder for us. He was compared to Joel Corey a couple of years ago. I hope he continues to build his physique to match that of Corey's and develops the mental application that has seen Corey utilize every last ounce of talent he possesses.

Edited April 10, 2012 by Goodvibes

[old55 23,613]

Why would a decent mid move clubs?

1. Chance to play in a flag winning side

2. Big, big $$$$$s

3. give a 2nd stringer the chance to be the main man and get paid accordingly

I don't think we're offering #1 in the medium term, Clark came for #2 and we must have some limitations in this area now. I think #3 is a possible attraction for us. Wellingham, Beams or Sidebottom might get squeezed out at Collingwood if they re-sign Cloke on big bucks. I can't see one of St.Kilda's guns like Dal Santo, Goddard or Montagna being faintly interested in joining MFC.

I don't think we're going to be able to add a mature gun. I think we're going to have to build incrementally from within

- develop our existing talent e.g. Jones, Trengove, Gysberts, Blease,

- transfer suitable players from other areas e.g. Grimes, Watts, Howe,

- maximise our draft opportunity, we're going to take Viney and should have a pick inside the top 5 in the "super-draft"

- trade our mid first rounder for a 2nd stringer e.g. Wellingham, Beams or Sidebottom

[Hells Gates 505]

Trouble is we are going to have to draft it. No player of any importance would want to come to this club the way it is going. Its horrible but true. At least the new teams have the money that we dont, cant see us attracting anything. Must draft well!

[Return to Glory 8,443]

Viney plus a real running mid and hope that Billy Stretch comes through in 2014

[Guest José Mourinho]

Looking at this coming draft, Scully leaving is a blessing in disguise.

Even if we trade the picks, their value is greater than that of Scully alone.

[Whispering_Jack 30,226]

I wouldn't be dwelling at this early stage on what we might do in the trades and draft at the end of the year. However, I would hope that those charged with improving our list going into the future are preparing the groundwork to bring players into the club to bolster our weaknesses, most of which are related to our midfield. Anyway, it's far to early to speculate on what we're going to do at the end of the year. I'm far more interested in what can be done to get ourselves out of the rut we're in at the moment and the poor midfield is just one of our problems.

But if we focus on the midfield, AOB is right about it's lack of quality players and the need to bring a point of difference into that mix. Hence, I agree that we need to introduce players like Gysberts (3-5 weeks away), Grimes, Watts and Howe into the midfield because we seem to be relying too heavily on strongly built one paced players who are not only slow in pace but in movement and not great in delivery of the football. Having said that, the word is that our midfield this week is going to augmented by Brent Moloney and Tom Couch. I think it's great for Couch to be rewarded with a game - I saw him picking up possessions at will at Casey on Sunday but Richmond's not Frankston. And Matthew Bate surely deserves a chance for more game time this week.

So what I would like to see is for the coaches to mix up that midfield and allow a little more flair. I'm sensing that in their conversion from one game plan to another the players are perhaps a little frightened to play their natural game lest they get accused of not following the game plan rigidly enough. The result is we're playing like robots, we're not spreading, we're not even reactive to what our opponents are doing. This is seen at its worst in the midfield where we really need a better mix of players.

Of course, it would help if we could keep our players on the park. We could really do with the likes of Sylvia, Jurrah, Gysberts, a focussed Davey and it's unfortunate James Strauss is injured again because his footskills coming out of defence would be invaluable. Blease was criticised by some for his play at Casey but he would be handy with his pace. If only he had the engine to run up and down the wing all day.

[old dee 23,792]

I wouldn't be dwelling at this early stage on what we might do in the trades and draft at the end of the year. However, I would hope that those charged with improving our list going into the future are preparing the groundwork to bring players into the club to bolster our weaknesses, most of which are related to our midfield. Anyway, it's far to early to speculate on what we're going to do at the end of the year. I'm far more interested in what can be done to get ourselves out of the rut we're in at the moment and the poor midfield is just one of our problems.

But if we focus on the midfield, AOB is right about it's lack of quality players and the need to bring a point of difference into that mix. Hence, I agree that we need to introduce players like Gysberts (3-5 weeks away), Grimes, Watts and Howe into the midfield because we seem to be relying too heavily on strongly built one paced players who are not only slow in pace but in movement and not great in delivery of the football. Having said that, the word is that our midfield this week is going to augmented by Brent Moloney and Tom Couch. I think it's great for Couch to be rewarded with a game - I saw him picking up possessions at will at Casey on Sunday but Richmond's not Frankston. And Matthew Bate surely deserves a chance for more game time this week.

So what I would like to see is for the coaches to mix up that midfield and allow a little more flair. I'm sensing that in their conversion from one game plan to another the players are perhaps a little frightened to play their natural game lest they get accused of not following the game plan rigidly enough. The result is we're playing like robots, we're not spreading, we're not even reactive to what our opponents are doing. This is seen at its worst in the midfield where we really need a better mix of players.

Of course, it would help if we could keep our players on the park. We could really do with the likes of Sylvia, Jurrah, Gysberts, a focussed Davey and it's unfortunate James Strauss is injured again because his footskills coming out of defence would be invaluable. Blease was criticised by some for his play at Casey but he would be handy with his pace. If only he had the engine to run up and down the wing all day.

I agree with a lot of what you say WJ.

But correct if I am wrong here but wasn't one of the reasons we picked Blease his kicking skills?

If so I do not know what happened as he could not hit the side a barn from 20 metres at present.

The times I have seen him he seems to be a one trick pony.

Get the ball and dash down field and generally blase away.

Now that might be selling him short but that is all I see.

[Watts Jurrah Dunn? 735]

Must must MUST use the two Scully picks on the classiest midfielders available in the draft. We need 2 Dyson Heppell's with exceptional skills & great decision who can play midfield or off a back flank.

We don't need more inside grunt, we have enough of that and Viney is the same.

I just can't believe we are going into the most important draft in our history, with such a great draft pool and Todd Viney is calling the shots. Says to me maybe they are planning on trading the picks for a Dangerfield, Boak, Goddard etc.

Edited April 10, 2012 by Watts Jurrah Dunn?

[Return to Glory 8,443]

Whispering Jack, Blease on a wing is a fair call imo and in a way, the only real option. Not sure I want him coming off half back and doesn't seem to have the presence of mind yet to work as a forward

[Return to Glory 8,443]

I hope we don't trade the picks for a Goddard, Black etc. Remember that this current crop, the Gysberts, Trengoves will have a further 12 months behind them and we will be better suited to introduce young picks. Let's not forget that these players have had a baptism of fire.

[rjay 24,950]

Why would a decent mid move clubs?

3. give a 2nd stringer the chance to be the main man and get paid accordingly

I- trade our mid first rounder for a 2nd stringer e.g. Wellingham, Beams or Sidebottom

Not a good idea for mine, these 2nd stringers shine with top talent around them. They won't have that luxury with us and it would be a waste of a first round pick.

We should take 2 first round mids with Viney in this draft, there are a few really good ones that will be available to us given our recent form.

[Guest José Mourinho]

I have a different view of who I'd target - see bolded below.

Especially Gwilt, Adcock and Sam Butler.

Blokes like Cassissi and Jude Bolton would be great too...

but you'd never get them.

There are a few that are worth looking at that would add a bit more quality & depth to our list. Have a look through the list below. Some may be unrealistic targets however targeting certain players makes the clubs work harder to keep other players on that list.

FREE AGENTS

Adelaide Crows

Michael Doughty Unrestricted

Chris Knights Unrestricted

Brisbane Lions

Jed Adcock Restricted

Simon Black Unrestricted

Jonathan Brown Unrestricted

Josh Drummond Restricted

Ash McGrath Unrestricted

Carlton

Heath Scotland Restricted

Jordan Russell Unrestricted

Bret Thornton Unrestricted

Collingwood

Travis Cloke Restricted

Ben Johnson Unrestricted

Harry O'Brien Restricted

Heath Shaw Restricted

Essendon

Ricky Dyson Unrestricted

Dustin Fletcher Unrestricted

David Hille Unrestricted

Nathan Lovett-Murray Unrestricted

Mark McVeigh Unrestricted

Angus Monfries Restricted

Henry Slattery Unrestricted

Brent Stanton Restricted

Fremantle

Ryan Crowley Unrestricted

Antoni Grover Unrestricted

Luke McPharlin Unrestricted

Geelong

Shannon Byrnes Unrestricted

Paul Chapman Unrestricted

Corey Enright Unrestricted

Josh Hunt Unrestricted

Steve Johnson Unrestricted

Matthew Scarlett Unrestricted

David Wojcinski Unrestricted

Hawthorn

Chance Bateman Unrestricted

Luke Hodge Unrestricted

Sam Mitchell Unrestricted

Thomas Murphy Unrestricted

Michael Osborne Unrestricted

Brad Sewell Restricted

Clinton Young Unrestricted

Melbourne Demons

Matthew Bate Unrestricted

Lynden Dunn Unrestricted

Brad Green Unrestricted

Mark Jamar Unrestricted

Brent Moloney Restricted

Jared Rivers Unrestricted

North Melbourne

Brent Harvey Unrestricted

Michael Firrito Unrestricted

Port Adelaide

Domenic Cassisi Unrestricted

Troy Chaplin Restricted

Brett Ebert Unrestricted

Danyle Pearce Restricted

Steven Salopek Unrestricted

Jacob Surjan Unrestricted

Richmond

Brett Deledio Restricted

Nathan Foley Restricted

Luke McGuane Restricted

Kelvin Moore Unrestricted

Shane Tuck Unrestricted

St Kilda

Jason Blake Unrestricted

Raphael Clarke Unrestricted

Sam Fisher Restricted

Brendon Goddard Restricted

Jason Gram Restricted

James Gwilt Unrestricted

Lenny Hayes Unrestricted

Justin Koschitzke Unrestricted

Stephen Milne Unrestricted

Leigh Montagna Unrestricted

Sydney Swans

Jude Bolton Unrestricted

Jarrad McVeigh Restricted

Jarred Moore Unrestricted

West Coast

Sam Butler Unrestricted

Andrew Embley Unrestricted

Darren Glass Unrestricted

Daniel Kerr Unrestricted

Quinten Lynch Unrestricted

Mark Nicoski Unrestricted

Matt Rosa Unrestricted

Western Bulldogs

Lindsay Gilbee Unrestricted

Ryan Hargrave Unrestricted

Will Minson Unrestricted

Edited April 10, 2012 by José Mourinho

[Demon SeaMan 108]

Trengove Grimes Watts Frawley Garland Clark Sylvia Jurrah Gysberts Bail Magner

Morton Blease Jamar Petterd Jones Howe Martin Mckenzie Strauss Tapscott Bartram

Throw in Viney and another quality mid in next years super draft stir in some good

Coaching and we still have the makings of a top 4 side

Well at least I think we do

Use the picks on 2 top young mids in this draft then at the end of next season (or this season if we are feeling desperate) terminate Davey's contract/trade him for peanuts. This combined with Green's imminent departure opens up a lot of money to spend on a quality mid. That's 4 (hopefully) good quality mids when you add Viney to the mix

Contrary to above Davey is finished, should've offloaded him last yr when had some value! Gysberts/Jones/Trengove and a running/ roaming Watts interchanging with Grimes (couple of ball magnets there) should allow some elusive collects and polish wi some leading players up the ground.... Enter Leigh Montagna or Andrew Embley 2013 say and we have some excellent ball carriers