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The lack of bounce from half back, the lack of speed and class through the midfield and the ordinary forward line have all been issues the last 2 years. We slipped from hard nose defending with a dynamic attacking game to something more like Ross Lyon ball the last 2 years. It's certainly something that has to change.

Very much agree. The Win Loss record for this period last 6 or 7 games 2020 until now is the best period I have watched the Demons If you cannot go to the footy and enjoy this time you are nuts. I go expecting to win, not looking for something that some player does to feel good about or a 5 goal loss was not too bad. It will be the same this year we WILL win more games than we lose. GO DEES

It was back pre-premiership when I had to listen to a few games through online radio that I began noticing a pattern; when the Demons were up and about during a game, the commentators had to lift their own pace to keep up. The ball moved from player to player and even when the opposition had it the intensity of pressure meant that there was a continuous bobbing around and urgency to play. It was tempo football done brilliantly and culminated in the 2021 premiership. That game went almost to a coaching panel's timetable. 'Set your watches, gentlemen.' We all know the trouble - it is hard to sustain that for long and if the result is too many behinds it saps the energy and doesn't give us the buffer we need while absorbing the counter punch. A 1 in 8 improvement in our scoring accuracy and we'd be both exciting to watch and would have had just two losses in 2023.

when we are up and going we are a joy to watch when we are kicking 7.17 in a final? yeah, pretty frustrating

I’ve thoroughly enjoyed watching us win the majority of games I’ve attended in the last 4 seasons so not sure what these click chasers are on about…

Chad’s brother again.

We were poetry in motion during our finals campaign in 2021. A joy to behold. Last year we were hard to watch most of the time. Stodgy ball movement, patchy forward connection and of course injuries stymied us. I'm hopeful McQualter can help us click again. And i have my fingers crossed we can keep our KPF fit.

I liked watching GWS in the last part of the season, they had dare and skills. We played a boring predictable game style the last 2 years.

Of course it’s frustrating kicking 7.20, dominating the inside 50s and losing. But, we are incredibly hard to beat the last three years and I hope it continues for a few more years. I’m enjoying this team and frustration is just part of the ride.

We really need to win the flag this year

The media love for Collingwood is sickening. I also feel we are all being softened up for a Pies Blues GF this year. #sportsentertainment

But only half as good as a sister :) I come from a family of failed stage magicians. I have a half-sister.

Big call Picket, but at least you have seen him.

Sorry all on sabbatical at Apollo Bay for 2 weeks BUT fence will return for training reports end of the month .. Promise!🤩

A slightly interesting (well, to me at least) factoid… the band I moved from Melbourne to Sydney to join, had a guitarist named Steve Ralphs, who, as it turned out, was first cousin to Mick Ralphs, guitarist with Mott the Hoople and then with Bad Company. And now for a somewhat interesting sub-factoid… it turned out that prior to me being offered the spot in the band, he was a visa over-stayer and had been going under the name of Steve Fleming (which happened to be my family name), so he decided to revert back to his real name. The band didn’t last long after that, as the immigration people caught up with him pretty quickly and he was gone by the end of the year (1979). And yes, the Bowie connection with Mott the Hoople was such a good story. I do think though, that Ian Hunter was probably destined to become a star regardless of whether Bowie had intervened or not… he was such a strong personality with the talent to back it up. One Bitten Twice Shy, like T-Rex’s Bang a Gong (Get It On) is one of the great songs of that era and I reckon would still be a hit if it was released today.

David Bowie wrote ‘All the Young Dudes’ for Mott the Hoople. lan Hunter with the signature very dark shades was a singer with the band. Mick Ronson also was alumni, associated famously with Bowie’s ‘Rise and Fall of Ziggy Stardust and the Spiders from Mars’. Lou Reed’s ‘Transformer’ album etc. Given the recent spate of gloom descending on DL, definitely got a buzz out of the boys “Taking Care of Business” on the track during Sixes slide show. The half empty and half way to Hades fraternity could defer to the BTO acronym as Backman Turning (it)Over.

I just noticed several posters alluding to the fact he wasn’t picked ahead of Schache because of some prearranged agreement or he “‘checked out” I’d say it rare for a player to not want to play in a big final but who knows??

Just win it Dees and then as a bonus I can observe the media go into melt down.

It must be catching. You only used half his name.

It wasn't a subtle dig, there was no subtlety about it! Those loading conversations were monstrous and I'm not sure that we ever came to any sort on consensus on the subject matter Just a whole lot of back & forth Actually, the conversations on loading didn't particularly bother me because if we shut down debate, we may as well close the site I will defend the rights of those who I disagree with

Hunt had his chances there, his disposal was sub par. But yes boy does he have pace. When he took a defensive role he was more effective using his pace to stop the faster forwards, more than create play.

And won't Harley Reid and JUH/Ben King round that next group off nicely.

Is that a less than subtle dig at Binman's love of loading? If we get busy on it now we can have the loading issue sorted prior to the start of the season. :)

I have no problem with that and hope it takes the pressure of Petty to try and hasten his return.

People need to calm down a bit, we will be going in with the same fwd line we had in the back half of last year, and got us within a kick of a Prelim (without JVR). Whilst it's not ideal we know how to play with this fwd line and will do untill the cattle are ready to trott out onto the park. Play the long game, not round 1.

I have no faith in Tommy, not until he either does something at afl level or dominates Casey for a month. I like the move of him down back and hope he’s heathy and able to push his case in that role, because apart from physical issues he seems mentally shot as a forward. Same goes for BBB. Zero faith he can do anything at the top level these days, his Casey form late last year was dreadful. My depth chart for next man up after Petty and JVR would be: Fullarton (once healthy) > Schache > the old boys > who knows (Jefferson or Verrall)

"Jacob van Rooyen and Josh Schache built on their forward chemistry ahead of the ball" Looks like this will probably be our starting tall forward line-up until Petty returns

Gee Macca you have just about shot yourself in the foot now. Tmac I have never suggested at half time but in the third quarter say 15 mins in. Whatever happens from then is the unknown but a positive move to get some forward scores and give Gawny a rest is made. Or Max rests in the Forward pocket and Schache rucksxand changes forward also. Remember Ted Hopkins bit different but Barass never would die wondering. That’s my point no bravado Goody seems to afraid of losing and the team can play like that often. Macca you want or like something real well I’ve offered my real solution, better the non solution offered by our Match Cttee and Coach. Let’s please leave it there and move on to now. We might have the same situation in a months time if we keep getting injuries.

Jaysus, did the white team get a kick?

Seriously, can we all just put this McDonald/Schache semi final thing to bed? Just going round in circles now. Been done to death is an understatement 🙄

It's hard to form much of a view about season 2024 until you see them perform against opposition, i.e. upcoming games against Richmond and Carlton. Even then, there's only so much to take out of practice matches. Obviously, the key forward stocks on the surface are concerning, but I'll wait for a bit more evidence before getting too forlorn. It's a very long season and plenty of our ''game'', as in backs, mids and overall talent, will be superior to most. Things don't have to be perfect from the get-go to succeed.

All very reasonable points. Why has the club not communicated to member's and fans why the club has decided not to have a stand alone family day this year, something that is immensely popular among young fans and their parents? If the reasons WCW has noted above are accurate, why not communicate them to fans and members? Instead all i can find about the family day is the short article on the MFC website WCW links above dated 31 January, with this headline, sub headline and opening two paragraphs (I'm not sure about others, but i didn't get an email with any info). Demons launch Family Series It will be easier than ever for Demon families to get their footy fix in 2024. 'MELBOURNE’s family day has been super-sized in 2024 to include three epic family events, kicking off with the Demons taking on the Tigers in the side’s first inter-club match simulation of the year. The Demon Family Series, presented by Beyond Bank, will feature events stretching from Casey Fields to Gosch’s paddock, making it easier than ever for Demon families to get their footy fix. Personally i find that disingenuous at best, dismissive of fans at worst. And i expect better from my club. I mean, c',mon ditching the super successful family day that people look forward to and claiming it has been super sized? Super sized? What does that even mean? It certainly doesn't mean a bigger family day event with more free rides and activities. What i assume they mean is they have split family day into 'three epic family events' that make it 'easier than ever for Demon families to get their footy fix in 2024' C'mon, i get enough spin in advertising without my club trying to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. The three supposedly 'epic events' are: Demon Family Match Simulation at Casey Fields, with: seven-quarter match simulations (that little kisd wont sit through), signing opportunities (after the players have played 7 quarters of footy?), kids' activities and partner giveaways Demon Family Series April School Holiday Open Training at Gosch's Paddock or nearby location, with: players training (? like wow - they do that twice a week), signing opportunities (after the players have trained?), kids' activities and partner giveaways Demon Family Series July School Holiday Open Training, at Gosch's Paddock or nearby location, with: as above Perhaps i'm out of touch as my kids are young adults now, but when say they were 6 or 7, it would have been a lost cause convincing my kids any of those 'events' were 'epic', let alone actually getting them to go. And we had all three of those 'epic events' last year - in ADDTION to the family day. Easier than ever for Demon families to get their footy fix? Please. Casey is total non starter for any one with little kids who lives anywhere but in the south. Again, my kids are young adults, but i live in West and the thought of packing up two little kids into the car for a 3 to 4 hour round trip to watch seven quarters of footy at Casey and bounce on a jumping castle swaying in the Casey wind gives me cold sweats. (To be clear WCW i'm in no way knocking you or the quoted post. And i'm not trying to make you a spokesperson or proxy for the club. I love how supportive of the club you are. You have worded your post in a really balanced way that provides the reasons behind the decision not to have a family day without dismissing legit concerns about that decision. I've quoted you because in relation to the focus of this thread - the clubs poor comms - your post is very useful in terms of highlighting my concerns about the club's comms to fans, and in particular to members )

How hard would it be for each of the line coaches to write a piece for the website once a fortnight telling us how the players in their group are progressing? And if they don't want to do it, surely they can get some year 10 work experience kids to do it. Ditto for the Casey coach after each game. Do a pocket profile for each of the players like they used to have in the footy record, and release 1 or 2 each week during the pre season. I'd be interested in learning more about some of the off field staff we have as well, and what their jobs entail. Give us some regular, accurate injury and fitness updates. Not everything is a state secret that has to be kept away from opposition clubs. Put some posters and other downloadable materials on the website. Run some competitions on there as well. Update the team pages on the website so that the AFLW players drafted two months ago appear and those we traded out are removed.

Sadly what has been produced since Ben left is outright slack, lazy and simply not directed at us...the fans. Demonland was producing "happy snaps" of players at training 20 years ago, and what we are seeing now is nothing more. In fact our own @Six6Six produces far superior quality shots when compared to the amateur efforts shown by people who are being paid to do the job. At training sessions we see them behind their camera, and scrolling through their phone, while spectacular marks go un-noticed, and what's worse....not a single written report about what is actually going on right in front of them....or behind them as injuries occur during the session. Or who is training, who is not, who is rehabbing. ....off we go to Demonland to get that information. Podcasts from the club? No, you have to come to Demonland for that!. Interviews....once again unsighted since Ben left, except for the banal questioning line of "what was it like out there today". How about something as simple as asking Christian Salem how his recovery is going? Essendon have a run down on their community camp over a couple of days. And how about writing something? There is more food for the supporter needs right here on Demonland, than can be found on the club website. Like @Dannyz has pointed out, go to other clubs websites ( yes that hurts), but it shows what their fans are being given and entertained with, and can get excited about. That is how you build a fan base, that is how you maintain a fan base.

Windsor will debut round 0 BOOKMARK IT

Hi all! I’m heading up to Sydney for round 0 and wondering who else on here is going too? There’s no organised pre match meet up as demon army will be busy getting everything ready and nsw demons not being able to do so either being a Thursday night. I’d love to organise a meet up place with any other demon fans going up during the day and have a few pre game drinks if anyone Is interested :)

Amazing that we still have the same basic problem 5 seasons on if only we could convert those entries

Casual observations: Bill Laurie and Windsor on blue team Billings and Howes on white team

Playing a VFL level squad isn’t much of an indication of true performance.

It was weird, absolutely no doubt. I have no intel on this, and maybe i'm being unfair on Grundy, but i have also wondered if he had he checked out. I wasn't convinced by his body language at Casey i have to admit. And perhaps more than that was hesitant, even if only sub consciously, to play for fear of getting injured and scuttling the trade to the Swans. Even in those circumstances you'd think they might still play him. But my sense of Goody is that he would never play someone that wasn't 1000% invested and all in - not least because of the message that sends to the rest of the team, last season and beyond. After all, he was gone at season's end and if was any concerns about Grundy's investment all the players would have been aware of it. Goody thinks long term and his sense may well have been that Tmac at 80% was a better bet than an ambivalent Grundy, with the added benefit of strengthening team culture by rewarding a stalwart of the club, a premiership player no less, who is staying at the dees in 2024 and beyond.

I also heard this.

A friend told me Caleb Windsor was super impressive in the full match sim today. Just about BOG.

You’re hilarious, so it was a mistake but only in hindsight?

If Schache was sub in case Gawn went down then why wasn’t Grundy the sub? If TMac was on one leg why wasn’t a fit Schache or Grundy in front of him? Any way you look at it it was an error. TMac on the field was an error, Schache as a non starting sub was an error. We still should have won that game easily. Mistakes were made and as with all mistakes they’re excusable but you have to admit team selection was poor that night as was the way we played.

I can't wait to see the Casey (or Caulfield) Demons play at Caulfield Racecourse in a few years time.

Personally, if i was framing a market for the flag i'd have the pies and the lions just about equal favorites, with us just behind (in large part because we've had more players with interrupted preseasons). There is very little separating those three teams. You only need to look at the exposed form from last season in terms of head to head games between them for clear evidence of that fact (ie small margins, pretty much 50 50 for all head to head combos) That said, 9.50 is not good value at all (and 5.00 for the pies to win just simply ridiculous). Futures bets, particularly for an event seven months away, is a total sucker bet created by the bookies to siphon money from punters (not that there would much money in GF pools at this point). As Webber notes above: 'Where we finish depends on injuries/players available through the season. As it does for all clubs. It’s the single greatest determinant of success, even if the least sexy.' There is no way of knowing which teams might cop key injuries at key times (like us losing every key forward, and then melk, at the business end of the season). Or which team might just have run of really bad luck - for example imagine taking a futures bet before the 2023 season on the crows to make the finals (or even win it), only for them to miss out because of a complete howler of a video review that knocked them out. For the same reason, futures bets on say the Melbourne Cup are a scam by bookies (though at least if you had an interest in a horse that you knew was a star, and others didn't, you might get crazy good odds). The current favorite for the Melbourne Cup is Without A Fight at $15. I wouldn't take $15 for it to actually run! On Webbers comment about the impact of injuries on teams chances of success, quite frankly, it amazes me that in 2024 this is just not an accepted fact. Since the end of the last season I've taken more interest in other football codes (and to a lesser extent NBA). For example I've been following the Spurs fortunes closely in the EPL and the 49ers in the NFL. The impact of injuries (and in the EPL also players missing due to international games) is forensically analyzed - and factored into predictions of how teams might go, previews of games and reviews of games. Unlike with AFL footy, noting the impact of injuries is not reflexively dismissed as making excuses, but rather factored in as logical reasons contributing to predictions, a particular result, or run of results. My sense is that it is uniquely Australian phenomena that the impact of injury is not realistically factored into the media's analysis of footy, and hardly at all by fans. I think the footy media plays a key role as it is dominated by the voices of ex footballers, many of whom played last century ,and the ridiculous make no excuses, soldier out, soldier in palaver is baked in to the coverage and therefore also the culture of the game.

I was behind the fence next to him a lot of the session and it seemed to me from conversations and interactions that he may have hamstring awareness or an issue there. He didn't do nearly as much running as Oliver and Salem and they both came up to him at one point and rubbed his hamstring mucking around saying how's it feeling etc. May only be a small issue but feel like there has to be something there because it didn't look like he was trying to rack up the kms or anything today?

I think it’s entirely sensible. 11 teams finished with a percentage of 107-127% last year. The AFL rules work for parity and parity was the outcome. Geelong, the 2022 premiers finished 12th. Anyone tip them to fall that far post flag? They should’ve been 11th if they hadn’t tanked the last game but 12 it was. All of the best 11 teams on percentage last year should be solid again. Something might go drastically wrong for a few of them as it did Freo last year. But that might be a straight swap with any of Freo, GC, Ess or Hawthorn who have the talent to push towards finals. If our percentage range is 105-130% then our ladder position is probably 1st to 12th. Minimal injuries, new players, youngsters taking steps up, quickly adapting to the new game plan and we finish top 4. Too many new injuries, the new guys don’t settle, the players take a while to adapt to the game plan and we look a bit physically and mentally spent we could slip outside the 8. The last 3 years dominant full ground defending and dominant contested ball in a game plan designed around Max, Oliver, Viney, Tracc, May, Lever has made us close to a sure thing for top 6 (once that style was established in 2021). I’m happy to be accused of pessimism but I think it’s time we pull the plug on that assumption before it’s pulled on us by the competition. I’d be opening the game up with more pace, skill and risk and if we’re still great defensively then fantastic, we’ll probably be top 4, but it could just as easily be a step back to go forward year.

It's a fair probability. I mean there a lot of unknown factors about like Oliver, Petty's fitness and a few others. But I feel quite confident. It's still a reasonably young life list with a good balance of age and youth. There are also a lot of players on the list that haven't really been able to show their true colours. Also a number of players were down on form last year so if they get back to their best I see no reason why we won't be top four again.